How Would You Vote in IndyRef2?

[Boris]

1 hour ago, JamboX2 said:

 

The only substantive change is the lancing of the constitutional issue and a return to a wholly policy based debate. But that won't do much either as the main parties are broadly aligned.

 

Would the Scottish Tories introduce universal credit to an independnet Scotland?  If not, why do they support it now?

 

Do yo thinkk Corbyn's Labour and May's Tories are broadly aligned?

[Unknown user]

2 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

But the Scottish electorate based on who it elects to govern and on social attitude surveys is in no hugely different place from the wider electorate.

 

The SNP are centrists by trade and not all that different from where the Labour moderates are. In fact there's more cross over in policy than not.

 

So where's this huge difference?

 

Policies designed by devolved parties already account for devolved powers and application to Scotland's needs. So I have never fully grasped this point. I think people aren't looking at this objectively.

 

I agree Labour have shifted. But it shifted with societal change. What's wrong with that? All parties do. The idea independence is transformative is a high hope. It will shift a centre of power to a another one. That is that. There is little to suggest a huge difference of opinion exists in how that power is exercised. 

 

In effect - if you are a centralizing socialist you will still be that with independence. If you advocate free schools you will still advocate free schools. 

 

A social democrat in Germany shares a lot of the same ideas beliefs and policy aims as one in Greece. Application may differ. But even then I think there won't be a huge departure on a lot of issues from now. The only substantive change is the lancing of the constitutional issue and a return to a wholly policy based debate. But that won't do much either as the main parties are broadly aligned.

That's a long way from your saying that being labour is an ideaology. It isn't, how can it be when their party ideaology has changed so much over the years?

[Phil Dunphy]

2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

But when I asked you a few posts back how you’d vote on the United ireland question you said you’d vote the way that would cause the least bloodshed! That seems you were admitting there is loonies there. Was there bloodshed here during our indyref despite people like yourself saying it’s all poison? Jim Murphy got hit with an egg whilst standing on a box and shouting like an arsehole in towns and sometimes people say bad words on twitter or FB yet to you that is poison?  

Listen it’s like anything the majority of people are sound, Protestant and Catholic but to say there isn’t a hard core of complete and utter lunatics is laughable man.

 

I’m not saying there aren’t some absolute nut jobs in Northern Ireland. However, I’m not the one claiming it’s a ‘basket case’ of a place. 

 

You seem to to be going from it being a basket case of a place to most people being sound enough. Make up your mind. 

[Phil Dunphy]

Anyway, this thread isn’t about Northern Ireland or the politics surrounding the country. This is about how you would vote in the case of a second independence referendum. 

 

For the the avoidance of doubt, I’m Northern Irish. I was born in Northern Ireland, not the Republic of Ireland. So that makes me as Irish as someone from Cardiff is Scottish. 

 

If if anyone wants to know my views on a United Ireland, not that it’s the point of this thread, then re-read my 2nd paragraph. Case closed. 

[JamboX2]

1 hour ago, Boris said:

 

Would the Scottish Tories introduce universal credit to an independnet Scotland?  If not, why do they support it now?

 

Do yo thinkk Corbyn's Labour and May's Tories are broadly aligned?

 

I think UC on paper is a great idea. Rather than administer a number of separate and independently paid benefits you have one. If you read what some who are now on it and those in jobcentres administering it say it offers a more joined up approach to getting people into work and doesn't penalise them like JSA based on earning caps: I.e. you get paid £x a week you loose all support. 

 

The issues are around funding and implementation. Broadly speaking all parties kind of back it in principle (a unifying benefit which doesnt penalise work). The SNP are helping implement it in Scotland with minor tweaks, on payment times. The Labour party oppose it as it combines child tax credit into it. So in general they all broadly accept it to some extent. But differ on implementation or scope.

 

As for your final point: parties are generally broad churches in the UK. Some are more vocal than others. In general though, the Labour Party agree on key principles and ideas as the basis for their policies and the Tories as well. As far as each of those two go I think their divisions are wasteful ones I.e. personality and Brexit.

Edited October 26, 2018 by JamboX2

[jack D and coke]

17 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

I’m not saying there aren’t some absolute nut jobs in Northern Ireland. However, I’m not the one claiming it’s a ‘basket case’ of a place. 

 

You seem to to be going from it being a basket case of a place to most people being sound enough. Make up your mind. 

It is a basket case of a place. Politically and economically. I’ve no mind to make up. 

[JamboX2]

45 minutes ago, Smithee said:

That's a long way from your saying that being labour is an ideaology. It isn't, how can it be when their party ideaology has changed so much over the years?

 

It's not really departed from its core position as a broad church party of democratic socialism (ideology). It's means of implementing that idea have (policy). 

 

The ideology has also changed to accommodate advances in society. Tony Crossland's ideas in the 1960s wouldn't be wholly in step with Labour in 1918 but it is of the same church.  

Edited October 26, 2018 by JamboX2

[Roxy Hearts]

25 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

It's not really departed from its core position as a broad church party of democratic socialism (ideology). It's means of implementing that idea have (policy). 

 

The ideology has also changed to accommodate advances in society. Tony Crossland's ideas in the 1960s wouldn't be wholly in step with Labour in 1918 but it is of the same church.  

What's your thoughts JX2 on the Labour fiasco in Glasgow about equal pay? Those idiots Leonard and Gaffney about sum up that hypocritical lot. Blaming the current SG for something they were originally responsible for. They really do treat the voters with contempt. 

 

I know you're a good Labour guy so wanted your honest opinion. Would you vote Yes again? 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2018 by Roxy Hearts

[Phil Dunphy]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

It is a basket case of a place. Politically and economically. I’ve no mind to make up. 

 

Which, again, shows your total ignorance on Northern Ireland and the people who live there.

[jack D and coke]

33 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Which, again, shows your total ignorance on Northern Ireland and the people who live there.

I could say the same for you saying Scotland is poisonous. Difference being you actually live here and should know better, coming from such a bitter place, what poison actually is. 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2018 by jack D and coke

[Phil Dunphy]

17 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I could say the same for you saying Scotland is poisonous. Difference being you actually live here and should know better, coming from such a bitter place, what poison actually is. 

 

 

 

Quote me saying Scotland is poisonous please.

 

Thanks.

[jack D and coke]

On 25/10/2018 at 09:11, Phil Dunphy said:

 

It’s not up to anyone to decide if someone else is Scottish or just British. 

 

Christ, I remember a time when politics in Scotland wasn’t so absolutely poisonous.

This one any good?

[Phil Dunphy]

4 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

This one any good?

 

You mean where I say "politics in Scotland"?

 

Even by your standards, that's clutching at straws.

 

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

You mean where I say "politics in Scotland"?

 

Even by your standards, that's clutching at straws.

 

You like to duck and dive and come across a smart ***** eh. You wouldn’t be this smart standing in front of me dafty  

[Phil Dunphy]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

You like to duck and dive and come across a smart ***** eh. You wouldn’t be this smart standing in front of me dafty  

 

 

Aye, no worries Rocky.

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

 

Aye, no worries Rocky.

One of these days you might find out big man  

[Phil Dunphy]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

One of these days you might find out big man  

 

Civic and joyous Nationalism everyone.

 

Edited October 26, 2018 by Phil Dunphy

[Roxy Hearts]

14 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Civic and joyous Nationalism everyone.

 

There are extremes Phil. Ireland on both sides is more extreme in my opinion. The Unionist fervour and the unification side of the arguments. I too have worked amongst it and you have to be very careful what you say! There are good people on both sides though and had many a great time.

[Phil Dunphy]

2 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

There are extremes Phil. Ireland on both sides is more extreme in my opinion. The Unionist fervour and the unification side of the arguments. I too have worked amongst it and you have to be very careful what you say! There are good people on both sides though and had many a great time.

 

That's one of the more accurate descriptions of Northern Ireland I've read on here. Thankfully, at this point in time, the number of extremist nut jobs on either side is getting smaller. Hopefully it continues to shrink until folk learn to get along with each other.

[Trapper John McIntyre]

38 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

One of these days you might find out big man  

Bail out quick JD. You've embarassed yourself enough on this thread.

 

Woeful stuff.

[JamboX2]

2 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

What's your thoughts JX2 on the Labour fiasco in Glasgow about equal pay? Those idiots Leonard and Gaffney about sum up that hypocritical lot. Blaming the current SG for something they were originally responsible for. They really do treat the voters with contempt. 

 

No longer a party man. But would say my sympathies are for the workers. None of the protagonists come out of this well. 

 

Labour as a council executive were advised by their civil servants to proceed with the case. So whilst - yes - they pursued it they were advised to do so. I believe the SNP backed this at the time. That isn't to muddy the waters however. Ian Smart recently had a Twitter thread explaining the background and if what he's alleged is true then serious questions of the Trade Union need to be asked. 

 

I'd say that all involved are as bad as each other. Labour are using an opportunity to attack the SNP Glasgow Exec for a failure to act as quickly as they promised. But they allowed the Glasgow Council to continue to pursue the case whilst in office. The Union seems to have agreed a potentially discriminatory deal but they're also the workers outlet and if those members wish to strike I support their right to do so. 

 

The issue for me is simple. I wish that both parties would take the opportunity to just settle the matter.

 

The fact the SNP exec in Glasgow are now touting the anti-TU regs against these workers is ott. Labour is right to oppose that.

 

The issue isn't black and white and it's so long running I don't think anyone comes out of it well in the slightest. 

 

2 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I know you're a good Labour guy so wanted your honest opinion. Would you vote Yes again? 

 

No. Not at present. 

[jack D and coke]

12 minutes ago, Trapper John McIntyre said:

Bail out quick JD. You've embarassed yourself enough on this thread.

 

Woeful stuff.

Coming from you tripper ill take that as a compliment  

[ri Alban]

6 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Frank I ain’t forgetting mate. I’m well aware they’re here. Still don’t recall anybody dying here or bombs going off, people getting shot over it. Do you? You can’t compare the lunatics in NI to here, here they’re just more often just mouthy bigoted arseholes whereas they’ll kill and maim over there. 

These people vote for the union come hell or high water cos they’re British first. Like a lot of unionists here. 

A lot of stabbings and a few people chucked off bridges. Acid attacks skulls drilled or kicked in. Houses burned etc...

 

Bampots all over this place. 

[Roxy Hearts]

33 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

No longer a party man. But would say my sympathies are for the workers. None of the protagonists come out of this well. 

 

Labour as a council executive were advised by their civil servants to proceed with the case. So whilst - yes - they pursued it they were advised to do so. I believe the SNP backed this at the time. That isn't to muddy the waters however. Ian Smart recently had a Twitter thread explaining the background and if what he's alleged is true then serious questions of the Trade Union need to be asked. 

 

I'd say that all involved are as bad as each other. Labour are using an opportunity to attack the SNP Glasgow Exec for a failure to act as quickly as they promised. But they allowed the Glasgow Council to continue to pursue the case whilst in office. The Union seems to have agreed a potentially discriminatory deal but they're also the workers outlet and if those members wish to strike I support their right to do so. 

 

The issue for me is simple. I wish that both parties would take the opportunity to just settle the matter.

 

The fact the SNP exec in Glasgow are now touting the anti-TU regs against these workers is ott. Labour is right to oppose that.

 

The issue isn't black and white and it's so long running I don't think anyone comes out of it well in the slightest. 

 

 

No. Not at present. 

Thanks JX2. Great response and hope we can win you over again. I used to vote Labour and as a kid had a great MP in Gavin Strang. 

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

That's one of the more accurate descriptions of Northern Ireland I've read on here. Thankfully, at this point in time, the number of extremist nut jobs on either side is getting smaller. Hopefully it continues to shrink until folk learn to get along with each other.

We can only hope it keeps on reducing. Every country has its problems it's how we resolve them. 

[Phil Dunphy]

16 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

We can only hope it keeps on reducing. Every country has its problems it's how we resolve them. 

 

Like punching **** out of people we don't like on message boards?

 

[Irufushi]

35 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Like punching **** out of people we don't like on message boards?

 

 

[JamboX2]

1 hour ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Thanks JX2. Great response and hope we can win you over again. I used to vote Labour and as a kid had a great MP in Gavin Strang. 

 

All comes down to a deal on Brexit. That'll set the terms of any UK break up. 

[Ministry MK2]

2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

You like to duck and dive and come across a smart ***** eh. You wouldn’t be this smart standing in front of me dafty  

I remember when I had my first beer.

 

[jack D and coke]

14 minutes ago, Ministry MK2 said:

I remember when I had my first beer.

 

[RealMaroonCF]

Voted labour until I realised I was scottish. Maybe I'll go back to labour under an independent Scotland but until then I vote for my country and countrymen to stand by ourselves.

 

We either wear the lion rampant or we ditch the costume. We are a nation of vastly educated and gifted people. A small but respected and beautiful country. 

 

Coins and paper don't make a country. It's people do.

 

I'll vote yes again....and by then it will be in the hands of mine and your children to take us forward 

[Roxy Hearts]

7 hours ago, RealMaroonCF said:

Voted labour until I realised I was scottish. Maybe I'll go back to labour under an independent Scotland but until then I vote for my country and countrymen to stand by ourselves.

 

We either wear the lion rampant or we ditch the costume. We are a nation of vastly educated and gifted people. A small but respected and beautiful country. 

 

Coins and paper don't make a country. It's people do.

 

I'll vote yes again....and by then it will be in the hands of mine and your children to take us forward 

Very good post. 

[coconut doug]

On 26/10/2018 at 18:26, JamboX2 said:

 

No longer a party man. But would say my sympathies are for the workers. None of the protagonists come out of this well. 

 

Labour as a council executive were advised by their civil servants to proceed with the case. So whilst - yes - they pursued it they were advised to do so. I believe the SNP backed this at the time. That isn't to muddy the waters however. Ian Smart recently had a Twitter thread explaining the background and if what he's alleged is true then serious questions of the Trade Union need to be asked. 

 

I'd say that all involved are as bad as each other. Labour are using an opportunity to attack the SNP Glasgow Exec for a failure to act as quickly as they promised. But they allowed the Glasgow Council to continue to pursue the case whilst in office. The Union seems to have agreed a potentially discriminatory deal but they're also the workers outlet and if those members wish to strike I support their right to do so. 

 

The issue for me is simple. I wish that both parties would take the opportunity to just settle the matter.

 

The fact the SNP exec in Glasgow are now touting the anti-TU regs against these workers is ott. Labour is right to oppose that.

 

The issue isn't black and white and it's so long running I don't think anyone comes out of it well in the slightest. 

 

 

No. Not at present. 

 

                 You are saying the Labour administration in Glasgow were against the legal action but were unable to stop it because of their “civil servants”. Somebody must have spoken out or else how would you know of this? Were Labour councillors so impotent or ideologically bankrupt that they could not support this principle of equal pay or their workers who were being swindled. What sort of people are they? You also say that the SNP were in favour of the court action to prevent equal pay, were they pressurised into taking this stance or do you think that the SNP are just inherently against fairness?

          Do you have any evidence to support your claims.  Seems strange that the SNP opposition would support those unelected officials and alienate half of their potential voters.  Perhaps the SNP took that view just to oppose the Labour councillors or maybe they thought nobody would notice.  You noticed though but as far as I can see the media missed it completely. Do you have any evidence to support your claim?

                         The lawyer leading the equal pay case for the claimants said that neither the Unions nor the council would even speak to the women’s fair pay group.  Many women individually advised by their union accepted settlements considerably below their entitlement. In England, some have won cases against the unions afterwards. Do you think the SNP might have infiltrated Unison and the GMB and given these women this terrible advice unaware of the potential repercussions.  

There are lots of similar cases all over the U.K. Birmingham and Middlesbrough come to mind. Do you think the SNP are “equally to blame” here as well?

              You say the SNP “touting the anti-TU regs” against these workers . Labour is right to oppose that? Are these the same anti-TU regs Labour made no attempt to repeal? What is it that the SNP are touting precisely and who is doing so?

              The leader of the women's campaign Stefan Cross) said that up until the administration changed from Labour to SNP the Unions would not even speak to them, now they are calling for and carrying out strike action. You don't think that it might be a politically motivated strike do you especially since the Organiser is a Labour candidate in the next election.

[Roxy Hearts]

4 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

                 You are saying the Labour administration in Glasgow were against the legal action but were unable to stop it because of their “civil servants”. Somebody must have spoken out or else how would you know of this? Were Labour councillors so impotent or ideologically bankrupt that they could not support this principle of equal pay or their workers who were being swindled. What sort of people are they? You also say that the SNP were in favour of the court action to prevent equal pay, were they pressurised into taking this stance or do you think that the SNP are just inherently against fairness?

          Do you have any evidence to support your claims.  Seems strange that the SNP opposition would support those unelected officials and alienate half of their potential voters.  Perhaps the SNP took that view just to oppose the Labour councillors or maybe they thought nobody would notice.  You noticed though but as far as I can see the media missed it completely. Do you have any evidence to support your claim?

                         The lawyer leading the equal pay case for the claimants said that neither the Unions nor the council would even speak to the women’s fair pay group.  Many women individually advised by their union accepted settlements considerably below their entitlement. In England, some have won cases against the unions afterwards. Do you think the SNP might have infiltrated Unison and the GMB and given these women this terrible advice unaware of the potential repercussions.  

There are lots of similar cases all over the U.K. Birmingham and Middlesbrough come to mind. Do you think the SNP are “equally to blame” here as well?

              You say the SNP “touting the anti-TU regs” against these workers . Labour is right to oppose that? Are these the same anti-TU regs Labour made no attempt to repeal? What is it that the SNP are touting precisely and who is doing so?

              The leader of the women's campaign Stefan Cross) said that up until the administration changed from Labour to SNP the Unions would not even speak to them, now they are calling for and carrying out strike action. You don't think that it might be a politically motivated strike do you especially since the Organiser is a Labour candidate in the next election.

Absolutely hate the Labour Party now. Self serving b'stards. 

[redjambo]

On 26/10/2018 at 23:45, RealMaroonCF said:

Voted labour until I realised I was scottish. Maybe I'll go back to labour under an independent Scotland but until then I vote for my country and countrymen to stand by ourselves.

 

We either wear the lion rampant or we ditch the costume. We are a nation of vastly educated and gifted people. A small but respected and beautiful country. 

 

Coins and paper don't make a country. It's people do.

 

I'll vote yes again....and by then it will be in the hands of mine and your children to take us forward 

 

Deary me.

[Trapper John McIntyre]

On 26/10/2018 at 23:45, RealMaroonCF said:

Voted labour until I realised I was scottish. Maybe I'll go back to labour under an independent Scotland but until then I vote for my country and countrymen to stand by ourselves.

 

We either wear the lion rampant or we ditch the costume. We are a nation of vastly educated and gifted people. A small but respected and beautiful country. 

 

Coins and paper don't make a country. It's people do.

 

I'll vote yes again....and by then it will be in the hands of mine and your children to take us forward 

 

You left the bit out about banners flying high.

 

 

[Gorgiewave]

8 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

Deary me.

redjambo is not a bad guy.

[Gorgiewave]

On 26/10/2018 at 23:45, RealMaroonCF said:

Voted labour until I realised I was scottish. Maybe I'll go back to labour under an independent Scotland but until then I vote for my country and countrymen to stand by ourselves.

 

We either wear the lion rampant or we ditch the costume. We are a nation of vastly educated and gifted people. A small but respected and beautiful country. 

 

Coins and paper don't make a country. It's people do.

 

I'll vote yes again....and by then it will be in the hands of mine and your children to take us forward 

 

Nobody cares about Scotland. People in Spain know there's somewhere in the British Isles where they speak English but isn't England. Ireland.

 

Scotland is a tiny country that nobody in the world knows or cares about.

 

Vastly educated? A joke. My dad is a local councillor and every day he receives emails and other communications from people who can't write a grammatically-correct, correctly-spelt sentence. He estimates that 20% of the employees of his council can write well enough to, let's say, pass Higher English.

 

There are highly educated people concentrated in a few places and then there's...the rest. It's a disgrace but it's true. Don't romanticise Scotland.

[ri Alban]

8 hours ago, Gorgiewave said:

 

Nobody cares about Scotland. People in Spain know there's somewhere in the British Isles where they speak English but isn't England. Ireland.

 

Scotland is a tiny country that nobody in the world knows or cares about.

 

Vastly educated? A joke. My dad is a local councillor and every day he receives emails and other communications from people who can't write a grammatically-correct, correctly-spelt sentence. He estimates that 20% of the employees of his council can write well enough to, let's say, pass Higher English.

 

There are highly educated people concentrated in a few places and then there's...the rest. It's a disgrace but it's true. Don't romanticise Scotland.

Stop emailing your da. He thinks your a dobber anaw. 

[ri Alban]

13 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Stop emailing your da. He thinks you're a dobber anaw. 

I'll stop the emails too.

[Sir Vladimir of Romanov]

17 hours ago, Gorgiewave said:

 

Nobody cares about Scotland. People in Spain know there's somewhere in the British Isles where they speak English but isn't England. Ireland.

 

Scotland is a tiny country that nobody in the world knows or cares about.

 

Vastly educated? A joke. My dad is a local councillor and every day he receives emails and other communications from people who can't write a grammatically-correct, correctly-spelt sentence. He estimates that 20% of the employees of his council can write well enough to, let's say, pass Higher English.

 

There are highly educated people concentrated in a few places and then there's...the rest. It's a disgrace but it's true. Don't romanticise Scotland.

 

Lies, yer Da sells Avon.

[Dawnrazor]

6 hours ago, Sir Vladimir of Romanov said:

 

Lies, yer Da sells Avon.

Well your Da has a lower back tattoo. 

[jumpship]

On 28/10/2018 at 19:37, Gorgiewave said:

 

Nobody cares about Scotland. People in Spain know there's somewhere in the British Isles where they speak English but isn't England. Ireland.

 

Scotland is a tiny country that nobody in the world knows or cares about.

 

Vastly educated? A joke. My dad is a local councillor and every day he receives emails and other communications from people who can't write a grammatically-correct, correctly-spelt sentence. He estimates that 20% of the employees of his council can write well enough to, let's say, pass Higher English.

 

There are highly educated people concentrated in a few places and then there's...the rest. It's a disgrace but it's true. Don't romanticise Scotland.

A true unionist.  Well done son. To wee, to stupid 

 

If you can't vote Labour, vote Tory, it's the same outcome. Same folk at the top making lots of money for themselves and their friends. 

 

I love fox hunting, it's meant to be banned... wink, wink. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

On 28/10/2018 at 19:37, Gorgiewave said:

 

Nobody cares about Scotland. People in Spain know there's somewhere in the British Isles where they speak English but isn't England. Ireland.

 

Scotland is a tiny country that nobody in the world knows or cares about.

 

Vastly educated? A joke. My dad is a local councillor and every day he receives emails and other communications from people who can't write a grammatically-correct, correctly-spelt sentence. He estimates that 20% of the employees of his council can write well enough to, let's say, pass Higher English.

 

There are highly educated people concentrated in a few places and then there's...the rest. It's a disgrace but it's true. Don't romanticise Scotland.

 

Got to disagree there with you, as it's not my experience.

 

I've always found most American's, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders & many South Africans not only know but love all things Scottish, fair enough this is based upon my own experience whilst on holiday's, but everybody seems to love a Scottish accent, also I know that, especially, in North America many people want to have Scottish ancestry as it opened up or made them more socially acceptable, probably within certain social circles.

Maybe's it's something to do with all the above being English speakers, I don't know, but probably.

 

So plenty of folks not only care, but desperately want to be part Scottish.

[Gorgiewave]

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Got to disagree there with you, as it's not my experience.

 

I've always found most American's, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders & many South Africans not only know but love all things Scottish, fair enough this is based upon my own experience whilst on holiday's, but everybody seems to love a Scottish accent, also I know that, especially, in North America many people want to have Scottish ancestry as it opened up or made them more socially acceptable, probably within certain social circles.

Maybe's it's something to do with all the above being English speakers, I don't know, but probably.

 

So plenty of folks not only care, but desperately want to be part Scottish.

 

You mention places where there has been significant emigration of Scots. Spain is not such a place and they know and care nothing about Scotland.

[Auld Reekin']

1 hour ago, Gorgiewave said:

 

You mention places where there has been significant emigration of Scots. Spain is not such a place and they know and care nothing about Scotland.

 

Yeah, you're quite right. All of the many Spanish tourists and visitors that throng the streets of Edinburgh every year, and throughout the year not just in summer or during the festival, and all of the many Spanish tourists and visitors who each year throng to other such iconic Scottish sites such as Loch Lomond and Loch Ness, know and care nothing about Scotland. In addition to this, all of the many Spaniards who actually live and work in Scotland (but for how much longer will they wish to or be able to?) only do so through their utter indifference and ignorance of Scotland itself. Finally, the fair number of Spanish people I know personally (some of whom have visited me and stayed at my erstwhile Edinburgh flat) and who express great affection for Scotland and great admiration for Scottish scenery and the openness and friendliness of Scotland's people are - of course - only doing so to mask their utter contempt for Scotland and all it contains and represents. Yes, as ever Iain, you're spot on.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Auld Reekin'

[Gorgiewave]

47 minutes ago, Auld Reekin' said:

 

Yeah, you're quite right. All of the many Spanish tourists and visitors that throng the streets of Edinburgh every year, and throughout the year not just in summer or during the festival, and all of the many Spanish tourists and visitors who each year throng to other such iconic Scottish sites such as Loch Lomond and Loch Ness, know and care nothing about Scotland. In addition to this, all of the many Spaniards who actually live and work in Scotland (but for how much longer will they wish to or be able to?) only do so through their utter indifference and ignorance of Scotland itself. Finally, the fair number of Spanish people I know personally (some of whom have visited me and stayed at my erstwhile Edinburgh flat) and who express great affection for Scotland and great admiration for Scottish scenery and the openness and friendliness of Scotland's people are - of course - only doing so to mask their utter contempt for Scotland and all it contains and represents. Yes, as ever Iain, you're spot on.

 

Kilts ("la falda escocesa"), haggis, Loch Ness, etc. A large proportion of the Spaniards in Scotland are learning English and do not plan on staying long-term. Not contempt, just ignorance. I said before the independence referendum that, despite the possibility that a major country with worldwide influence would break up, and in spite of how that might affect Catalan and Basque nationalists' chances of doing the same, there were no books on the subject.

 

On the day of the referendum, El País led with the story of a former tennis player called Gala León being asked by the Spanish tennis federation to appoint the new national team manager, though it had several articles on Scotland later:

 

https://elpais.com/tag/fecha/20140918

 

It had several articles the next day but still wasn't the lead story:

https://elpais.com/tag/fecha/20140919

 

By 20 September 2014, the Scotland shortcut had been replaced in favour of one on a Spanish film festival:

https://elpais.com/tag/fecha/20140920

 

This is the biggest Scotland-specific news story possibly ever.

 

Yes, people have heard of Scotland and know vaguely where it is, but calling it Inglaterra is also common, as is not knowing the difference between Scotland and England.

 

I'd estimate that the average Spanish person knows about the same as the average Scottish person knows about Mexico or Andalusia or South Korea, that is, not a lot.

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by Gorgiewave

[ri Alban]

6 hours ago, Gorgiewave said:

 

You mention places where there has been significant emigration of Scots. Spain is not such a place and they know and care nothing about Scotland.

Only bank robbers emigrate to Spain. 

[ri Alban]

5 hours ago, Gorgiewave said:

 

Kilts ("la falda escocesa"), haggis, Loch Ness, etc. A large proportion of the Spaniards in Scotland are learning English and do not plan on staying long-term. Not contempt, just ignorance. I said before the independence referendum that, despite the possibility that a major country with worldwide influence would break up, and in spite of how that might affect Catalan and Basque nationalists' chances of doing the same, there were no books on the subject.

 

On the day of the referendum, El País led with the story of a former tennis player called Gala León being asked by the Spanish tennis federation to appoint the new national team manager, though it had several articles on Scotland later:

 

https://elpais.com/tag/fecha/20140918

 

It had several articles the next day but still wasn't the lead story:

https://elpais.com/tag/fecha/20140919

 

By 20 September 2014, the Scotland shortcut had been replaced in favour of one on a Spanish film festival:

https://elpais.com/tag/fecha/20140920

 

This is the biggest Scotland-specific news story possibly ever.

 

Yes, people have heard of Scotland and know vaguely where it is, but calling it Inglaterra is also common, as is not knowing the difference between Scotland and England.

 

I'd estimate that the average Spanish person knows about the same as the average Scottish person knows about Mexico or Andalusia or South Korea, that is, not a lot.

 

 

Spanish Unionists in blank Indyref shock. 

People don't know the difference between England and Scotland used as an argument for the union. 

Gorgie Wave is on the run in Spain for raiding Avon. Allegedly! 

Edited October 30, 2018 by ri Alban

[Auld Reekin']

9 hours ago, Gorgiewave said:

 

Kilts ("la falda escocesa"), haggis, Loch Ness, etc. A large proportion of the Spaniards in Scotland are learning English and do not plan on staying long-term. Not contempt, just ignorance. I said before the independence referendum that, despite the possibility that a major country with worldwide influence would break up, and in spite of how that might affect Catalan and Basque nationalists' chances of doing the same, there were no books on the subject.

 

On the day of the referendum, El País led with the story of a former tennis player called Gala León being asked by the Spanish tennis federation to appoint the new national team manager, though it had several articles on Scotland later:

 

https://elpais.com/tag/fecha/20140918

 

It had several articles the next day but still wasn't the lead story:

https://elpais.com/tag/fecha/20140919

 

By 20 September 2014, the Scotland shortcut had been replaced in favour of one on a Spanish film festival:

https://elpais.com/tag/fecha/20140920

 

This is the biggest Scotland-specific news story possibly ever.

 

Yes, people have heard of Scotland and know vaguely where it is, but calling it Inglaterra is also common, as is not knowing the difference between Scotland and England.

 

I'd estimate that the average Spanish person knows about the same as the average Scottish person knows about Mexico or Andalusia or South Korea, that is, not a lot.

 

 

I wasn't referring to Spanish language students, or the Spaniards who might just be in the country for a couple of months to help them learn English, I am talking about the comparatively large, resident, Spanish community in Edinburgh and - presumably - other Scottish cities.

 

Forgive me if I don't place any great stock upon your estimation, in the light of such sweeping (and dare I say ignorant) statements as "Spain... know and care nothing about Scotland." 

Edited October 30, 2018 by Auld Reekin'