How Would You Vote in IndyRef2?

[Thunderstruck]

35 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Don't know about it. What happened? If it was hatefilled why did people vote for the person? 

 

Google blackford v kennedy election campaign. 

 

[Dawnrazor]

3 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Google blackford v kennedy election campaign. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-s-ian-blackford-accused-of-disfiguring-last-months-of-charles-kennedy-s-life-1-4776721/amp

[Rupert Custard]

Blackford is a bully. Want an example? Just ask him about his time as a banker and see his temper.

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Google blackford v kennedy election campaign. 

 

I liked Charles Kennedy as came across as a decent person. I started to read a little of the story but saw the name of that odious Brian Wilson who's quite the opposite of CK and stopped. I know politics can get dirty so it's disappointing if IB made derogatory remarks. 

[Roxy Hearts]

2 hours ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Scotland has one of the most powerful regional governments in Europe, if not the world. The list of devolved powers are very significant and we might be in a better place if the current Scottish Government opted to use these powers to the full rather than playing the grievance card and harping on about another referendum. 

What are they not using? Can we get some more please and really useful ones. How about energy? All economic powers? 

[Justin Z]

As the caption indicates, this is directed at all Scots, including those who voted No. Wonder how widespread this sentiment really is.

 

 

[hughesie27]

34 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

As the caption indicates, this is directed at all Scots, including those who voted No. Wonder how widespread this sentiment really is.

 

 

?

[Boris]

39 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

As the caption indicates, this is directed at all Scots, including those who voted No. Wonder how widespread this sentiment really is.

 

 

 

Stopped watching when he said 55% wanted to stay part of England.  What a chump.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

39 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

As the caption indicates, this is directed at all Scots, including those who voted No. Wonder how widespread this sentiment really is.

 

 

 

Wish he didn't sit on the fence and just say what he really thinks.  ?

 

 

[Justin Z]

 

BuT sCoTtIsH nAtIoNaLiStS aRe AnTi-EnGLiSh

[frankblack]

40 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

I wouldn’t say I’m a independence supporter as such. However, I would probably vote yes in a second referendum.

 

I just feel if we’re going to face the change of Brexit, might as well have change of independence. I also think the economic case gets stronger with uk being out the EU. 

 

I think sturgeon will seize the opportunity that the chaos of Brexit brings and get it over the line. I also expect that we would attempt to join EU straight away and that will be part of independence campaign to get soft no voters to flip. 

 

Slightly surprised no no more chat on independence as sturgeon certainly looks to be attempting to get another referendum in next couple of years.

 

The tories are in a complete meltdown with Labour.  The tories will not call another general election and will see out their term hoping to turn things around.  They have said multiple times that they won't allow an Indy Ref 2.

 

Labour are unelectable and have alienated their electoral base over their change of position on Brexit, which is seen as political opportunism and betrayal.  They should have wiped the floor with the tories but got heavy losses with them.  I doubt they would allow Indy Ref 2 should they take power considering how weak they are.

[jake]

4 hours ago, Lord BJ said:

I wouldn’t say I’m a independence supporter as such. However, I would probably vote yes in a second referendum.

 

I just feel if we’re going to face the change of Brexit, might as well have change of independence. I also think the economic case gets stronger with uk being out the EU. 

 

I think sturgeon will seize the opportunity that the chaos of Brexit brings and get it over the line. I also expect that we would attempt to join EU straight away and that will be part of independence campaign to get soft no voters to flip. 

 

Slightly surprised no no more chat on independence as sturgeon certainly looks to be attempting to get another referendum in next couple of years.

The economic case for independence imo requires a shift in the psyche of Scotand.

As a nation historically we have always been progressive but conservative.

English politics have held that in check and will continue to do so.

As any neighbouring nation does .

 

Then I also believe that most European economies would do better out with the EU .

So I'm at odds with most .

And I measure economy in different ways perhaps.

 

I'm not sure the First Minister really does want a second referendum.

I suspect that is internal politics.

[ri Alban]

7 hours ago, jake said:

The economic case for independence imo requires a shift in the psyche of Scotand.

As a nation historically we have always been progressive but conservative.

English politics have held that in check and will continue to do so.

As any neighbouring nation does .

 

Then I also believe that most European economies would do better out with the EU .

So I'm at odds with most .

And I measure economy in different ways perhaps.

 

I'm not sure the First Minister really does want a second referendum.

I suspect that is internal politics.

Well put opinion! ?

[frankblack]

11 hours ago, jake said:

The economic case for independence imo requires a shift in the psyche of Scotand.

As a nation historically we have always been progressive but conservative.

English politics have held that in check and will continue to do so.

As any neighbouring nation does .

 

Then I also believe that most European economies would do better out with the EU .

So I'm at odds with most .

And I measure economy in different ways perhaps.

 

I'm not sure the First Minister really does want a second referendum.

I suspect that is internal politics.

 

A lot of fair points.

 

I think that Sturgeon was really unhappy with the conference vote to have our own currency.  This is something that while it seems ideal on paper, selling it to the electorate is going to prove difficult and weaken their case.

 

One example.  Say you have two people with the same grade and experience working in the same area for different branches of the same company, one in Newcastle and the other Edinburgh.  Lets say the Scottish currency is worth 2/3rds of Sterling, wouldn't there be resentment over the colleague taking home a lot more money?

 

Any Scottish currency is going to start weak against an established currency.  Who is going to vote for that?  Then there are knock-on effects such as increased prices sourcing goods, parts and materials.

 

Sturgeon looked concerned when the leadership lost the vote on this and I can see why.

Edited May 6, 2019 by frankblack

[ri Alban]

7 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

A lot of fair points.

 

I think that Sturgeon was really unhappy with the conference vote to have our own currency.  This is something that while it seems ideal on paper, selling it to the electorate is going to prove difficult and weaken their case.

 

One example.  Say you have two people with the same grade and experience working in the same area for different branches of the same company, one in Newcastle and the other Edinburgh.  Lets say the Scottish currency is worth 2/3rds of Sterling, wouldn't there be resentment over the colleague taking home a lot more money?

 

Any Scottish currency is going to start weak against an established currency.  Who is going to vote for that?  Then there are knock-on effects such as increased prices sourcing goods, parts and materials.

 

Sturgeon looked concerned when the leadership lost the vote on this and I can see why.

They probably already make more money. And we already have to change our notes ATM. Plus we'll change when we change, a bit like the euro and now the Unionists have changed their tune to 'how are we no keeping the pound' from You're no keeping the pound'. Make your mind up.

[ri Alban]

What's the Unionists policies on making Scotland better, other than the obvious, like Michael Gove , who wants to take Holyrood apart. The definition of traitor, that little *******.

[frankblack]

Just now, ri Alban said:

They probably already make more money. And we already have to change our notes ATM. Plus we'll change when we change, a bit like the euro and now the Unionists have changed their tune to 'how are we no keeping the pound' from You're no keeping the pound'. Make your mind up.

 

This thing about Scottish notes not being accepted down south is easily rectified.  Take money out an English Bank's cashline machine or just pay by card.  I have only ever had a note rejected once in England and that was Manchester Piccadilly station getting something to eat for the train home last year. I have been to many places down south frequently.

 

Its not unionists changing their tune, its the SNP shooting itself in both feet.

 

 

[AlphonseCapone]

5 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

This thing about Scottish notes not being accepted down south is easily rectified.  Take money out an English Bank's cashline machine or just pay by card.  I have only ever had a note rejected once in England and that was Manchester Piccadilly station getting something to eat for the train home last year. I have been to many places down south frequently.

 

Its not unionists changing their tune, its the SNP shooting itself in both feet.

 

 

 

It's a lot easier solved, the English can simply accept Scottish notes. 

[ri Alban]

10 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

This thing about Scottish notes not being accepted down south is easily rectified.  Take money out an English Bank's cashline machine or just pay by card.  I have only ever had a note rejected once in England and that was Manchester Piccadilly station getting something to eat for the train home last year. I have been to many places down south frequently.

 

Its not unionists changing their tune, its the SNP shooting itself in both feet.

 

 

The SNP isn't doing anything of the sort. That's their policies, I'll vote yes, then vote Labour if they're up to it. If not, I'll vote for whoever/whomever speaks to me.

They said they'd move to the Scots pound when possible, not before. The Unionists have nothing left to offer (scaremonger) now. The political Union of Scotland and England is done. Whether we still have the crown , well that we can debate post independence.

Edited May 6, 2019 by ri Alban

[Boris]

41 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

One example.  Say you have two people with the same grade and experience working in the same area for different branches of the same company, one in Newcastle and the other Edinburgh.  Lets say the Scottish currency is worth 2/3rds of Sterling, wouldn't there be resentment over the colleague taking home a lot more money?

 

 

Wouldn't the company alter the Scottish wage so that it is comparative to the sterling one?  

 

If a company pays x for a position and it has employees in UK and the Netherlands, for example, do the UK workers get (for example) £30,000 p.a. and the Dutch get 30,000 euros?

 

 

[frankblack]

17 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

It's a lot easier solved, the English can simply accept Scottish notes. 

 

I'm not sure what the cause of the "legal tender" dispute is - they are either legal tender or they aren't.

 

The question arises why politicians haven't fixed this and why notes are printed that aren't legal tender in the whole of the UK.

 

I really can't understand how something so simple hasn't been fixed.

[Boris]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

I'm not sure what the cause of the "legal tender" dispute is - they are either legal tender or they aren't.

 

The question arises why politicians haven't fixed this and why notes are printed that aren't legal tender in the whole of the UK.

 

I really can't understand how something so simple hasn't been fixed.

 

So what’s actually classed as legal tender?

What’s classed as legal tender varies throughout the UK. In England and Wales, it’s Royal Mint coins and Bank of England notes. In Scotland and Northern Ireland it’s only Royal Mint coins and not banknotes.

 

from https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/what-is-legal-tender

[frankblack]

9 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Wouldn't the company alter the Scottish wage so that it is comparative to the sterling one?  

 

If a company pays x for a position and it has employees in UK and the Netherlands, for example, do the UK workers get (for example) £30,000 p.a. and the Dutch get 30,000 euros?

 

 

 

I am talking about an established company with existing staff.  Lets say at the launch of a Scottish currency the salaries are balanced but the exchange rate changes over time where the Scottish wage band equates to 2/3rds of their equivalent colleague in England.

 

I know some employers might balance salaries but I guess more ruthless ones will exploit cheaper labour up here.

Edited May 6, 2019 by frankblack

[ri Alban]

I see Ruth has changed her tune, Again! It used to be wm shouldn't stop Indyref2, now it's they have too. The games up, and she knows it. Won't be long til she's removed aswell.

Scottish Tories now 3rd in the polls.

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, Boris said:

 

So what’s actually classed as legal tender?

What’s classed as legal tender varies throughout the UK. In England and Wales, it’s Royal Mint coins and Bank of England notes. In Scotland and Northern Ireland it’s only Royal Mint coins and not banknotes.

 

from https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/what-is-legal-tender

 

Cheers.

 

This does still raise the question of why the discrepancies?

[ri Alban]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

I am talking about an established company with existing staff.  Lets say at the launch of a Scottish currency the salaries are balanced but the exchange rate changes over time where the Scottish wage band equates to 2/3rds of their equivalent colleague in England.

So, say Tesco, do you think they will not align the prices in their shoaps?

Edited May 6, 2019 by ri Alban

[Jambo-Jimbo]

4 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

So what’s actually classed as legal tender?

What’s classed as legal tender varies throughout the UK. In England and Wales, it’s Royal Mint coins and Bank of England notes. In Scotland and Northern Ireland it’s only Royal Mint coins and not banknotes.

 

from https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/what-is-legal-tender

 

Correct there are no banknotes whatsoever which are legal tender in Scotland, that means no Scottish or English notes, they are however defined as being legal currency, but that's different from being legal tender.

 

Good explaination here from the Committee of Scottish Bankers.

https://www.scotbanks.org.uk/banknotes/legal-position.html

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Jambo-Jimbo

[Boris]

3 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Cheers.

 

This does still raise the question of why the discrepancies?

 

Because our cousins south of the border tend to take a rather insular view of things.  England and Britain being synonymous a lot of the time.  If it looks alien, they fear it.  (A broad brush there and obviously not symptomatic of an entire country!)

 

Equally, I've seen people getting a hard time up here trying to use Northern Irish notes..

 

Perhaps what would have been clever at the time was to rename the BofE the Bank of Britain and only allow it to produce notes.

[Boris]

11 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I am talking about an established company with existing staff.  Lets say at the launch of a Scottish currency the salaries are balanced but the exchange rate changes over time where the Scottish wage band equates to 2/3rds of their equivalent colleague in England.

 

I know some employers might balance salaries but I guess more ruthless ones will exploit cheaper labour up here.

 

As long as prices are equally depressed, then it shouldn't really make much odds, should it?

 

If prices rise, but wages drop (in real terms) then you have problems.  But that would be, as you have said, down to the employers trying to cut costs, rather than independence itself.

[ri Alban]

4 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Because our cousins south of the border tend to take a rather insular view of things.  England and Britain being synonymous a lot of the time.  If it looks alien, they fear it.  (A broad brush there and obviously not symptomatic of an entire country!)

 

Equally, I've seen people getting a hard time up here trying to use Northern Irish notes..

 

Perhaps what would have been clever at the time was to rename the BofE the Bank of Britain and only allow it to produce notes.

That was part of the union deal. Scottish banks issuing their own notes.

[frankblack]

4 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

As long as prices are equally depressed, then it shouldn't really make much odds, should it?

 

If prices rise, but wages drop (in real terms) then you have problems.  But that would be, as you have said, down to the employers trying to cut costs, rather than independence itself.

 

If goods are imported from countries with a higher exchange rate, including the rest of the UK and EU then that means serious problems with a failing currency.

 

Wages are the responsibility of the employer.  In my last job we worked for a company paying below market rates, and were taken over by a multinational who promised to align us to their salary scale.  That never happened.

[Boris]

18 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

If goods are imported from countries with a higher exchange rate, including the rest of the UK and EU then that means serious problems with a failing currency.

 

I'm sure an equilibrium would be found.  An independent Scotland isn't going to suddenly find itself at the centre of a Mugabesque currency meltdown.

 

18 minutes ago, frankblack said:

Wages are the responsibility of the employer.  In my last job we worked for a company paying below market rates, and were taken over by a multinational who promised to align us to their salary scale.  That never happened.

 

[JackLadd]

Who wants to vote for life on the EU fringes on some banana republic currency with no credit rating and a massive budget deficit that can't be funded with a hard border with England? People who want that live in cloud cuckoo land. 

[frankblack]

3 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

Who wants to vote for life on the EU fringes on some banana republic currency with no credit rating and a massive budget deficit that can't be funded with a hard border with England? People who want that live in cloud cuckoo land. 

 

If the SNP took this currency into an Indy vote it would be ripped to shreds.

[ri Alban]

9 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

If the SNP took this currency into an Indy vote it would be ripped to shreds.

 

14 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

Who wants to vote for life on the EU fringes on some banana republic currency with no credit rating and a massive budget deficit that can't be funded with a hard border with England? People who want that live in cloud cuckoo land. 

What like, The UK and  the pound, post Brexit.

[ri Alban]

10 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

If the SNP took this currency into an Indy vote it would be ripped to shreds.

How is Norway getting on?

[frankblack]

31 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

 

What like, The UK and  the pound, post Brexit.

 

30 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

How is Norway getting on?

 

What are you slavering about? We aren't post Brexit and aren't likely to be with this traitorous parliament defying the will of the people.

[Boris]

10 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

 

What are you slavering about? We aren't post Brexit and aren't likely to be with this traitorous parliament defying the will of the people.

 

[jambomjm74]

Two Governments (West Minster and Holyrood) who continue to betray the will of the Scottish people, acting on their views and not those off the majority of Scots.

Both claimed how easy it would be to break up a union and how much it would benefit ... both either blind to the reality or so focused on their own nationalistic purity to accept the truth. 

[coconut doug]

6 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

A lot of fair points.

 

I think that Sturgeon was really unhappy with the conference vote to have our own currency.  This is something that while it seems ideal on paper, selling it to the electorate is going to prove difficult and weaken their case.

 

One example.  Say you have two people with the same grade and experience working in the same area for different branches of the same company, one in Newcastle and the other Edinburgh.  Lets say the Scottish currency is worth 2/3rds of Sterling, wouldn't there be resentment over the colleague taking home a lot more money?

 

Any Scottish currency is going to start weak against an established currency.  Who is going to vote for that?  Then there are knock-on effects such as increased prices sourcing goods, parts and materials.

 

Sturgeon looked concerned when the leadership lost the vote on this and I can see why.

Have we not just seen the devaluation of the u.k. pound by about 25% as a result of our decision to leave the EU? Is it not reasonable to assume that this devaluation will increase when we leave the EU and if Scotland does not leave then surely it would be reasonable to expect that any separate currency here would not suffer as much and may even benefit from it?

 

     Wouldn't a new Scottish currency then be more stable than a fractured pound which would lose around 10% of its market? what would the rUk treasury do with all the extra money floating around? Would'n't that further depress its value?

 

   Don't we already have a country where one part London and the SE) earns significantly more than any other area and isn't that even more of a problem than the one you suggest especially as we are all paid in the same currency?

 

  Why would a Scottish currency start weak against established currencies? Are those people responsible and the markets not capable of reflecting the true value of a currency?

 

  What is it about the UK pound that that gives it an inherent strength greater than anything a Scottish currency could achieve?

  Is it not the case that the structure and ownership of the means of production and wealth creation in the UK leaves us more vulnerable to currency speculation than any other developed country?

 

   Is it not really the case that the main reason we survive at all is because we have very low tax rates and very inefficient means of collecting taxes coupled with poor environmental standards and workers rights?  This means low social investment e.g. health and education in comparison to our neighbours so we keep on dropping farther behind. Is it not true that those among our competitors who have invested most heavily in infrastructure and services have had the more stable currencies?

 

       Why is the currency we use significant anyway, surely it is the value and stability of the currency that counts? Isn't it the lesson of the Euro that remaining o/s currency blocks enables small countries to regulate their economies more efficiently?

 

[frankblack]

3 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

Have we not just seen the devaluation of the u.k. pound by about 25% as a result of our decision to leave the EU? Is it not reasonable to assume that this devaluation will increase when we leave the EU and if Scotland does not leave then surely it would be reasonable to expect that any separate currency here would not suffer as much and may even benefit from it?

 

We have seen the pound devalued by the complete shambles at Westminster, and the remoaners non-stop scaremongering.  That should have been over a long time ago yet the stalemate at Westminster and failure to negotiate a deal is prolonging problems.  The tories should have fired TM after the last General Election but she stayed and made things even worse.

 

3 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

     Wouldn't a new Scottish currency then be more stable than a fractured pound which would lose around 10% of its market? what would the rUk treasury do with all the extra money floating around? Would'n't that further depress its value?

 

I think leaving the UK wil devalue any Scottish currency far more than the UK leaving the EU.  Scotland would have to set up a hard border with all the controls Ireland is trying to avoid along a very large border.

 

As pointed out above a Scottish currency would have no credit worthiness and be managing a huge budget deficit and imminent inflation problems.

 

3 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

   Don't we already have a country where one part London and the SE) earns significantly more than any other area and isn't that even more of a problem than the one you suggest especially as we are all paid in the same currency?

 

London isn't a country, so your analogy is flawed.

 

3 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

  Why would a Scottish currency start weak against established currencies? Are those people responsible and the markets not capable of reflecting the true value of a currency?

 

Lack of credit worthiness, budget deficit, and inherited share of UK national debt to pay off.

 

3 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

  What is it about the UK pound that that gives it an inherent strength greater than anything a Scottish currency could achieve?

 

The pound is a long established currency guaranteed by the Bank of England.

 

Who is Scotland's central bank and how has their financial security been?  My guess is RBS would be your suggestion, but that is still owned by the UK government.

 

3 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

  Is it not the case that the structure and ownership of the means of production and wealth creation in the UK leaves us more vulnerable to currency speculation than any other developed country?

 

Nope.

 

3 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

   Is it not really the case that the main reason we survive at all is because we have very low tax rates and very inefficient means of collecting taxes coupled with poor environmental standards and workers rights?  This means low social investment e.g. health and education in comparison to our neighbours so we keep on dropping farther behind. Is it not true that those among our competitors who have invested most heavily in infrastructure and services have had the more stable currencies?

 

I don't disagree here.  Tax avoidance and evasion needs to be stamped out, but there is a lack of political will from any party to do anything serious about it.

 

3 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

       Why is the currency we use significant anyway, surely it is the value and stability of the currency that counts? Isn't it the lesson of the Euro that remaining o/s currency blocks enables small countries to regulate their economies more efficiently?

 

 

Just ask Greece and Italy why the Euro has been so good for them.

[JackLadd]

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

 

What like, The UK and  the pound, post Brexit.

 

 

You bet I prefer that. 

[SwindonJambo]

17 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

Have we not just seen the devaluation of the u.k. pound by about 25% as a result of our decision to leave the EU? Is it not reasonable to assume that this devaluation will increase when we leave the EU and if Scotland does not leave then surely it would be reasonable to expect that any separate currency here would not suffer as much and may even benefit from it?

 

     Wouldn't a new Scottish currency then be more stable than a fractured pound which would lose around 10% of its market? what would the rUk treasury do with all the extra money floating around? Would'n't that further depress its value?

 

   Don't we already have a country where one part London and the SE) earns significantly more than any other area and isn't that even more of a problem than the one you suggest especially as we are all paid in the same currency?

 

  Why would a Scottish currency start weak against established currencies? Are those people responsible and the markets not capable of reflecting the true value of a currency?

 

  What is it about the UK pound that that gives it an inherent strength greater than anything a Scottish currency could achieve?

  Is it not the case that the structure and ownership of the means of production and wealth creation in the UK leaves us more vulnerable to currency speculation than any other developed country?

 

   Is it not really the case that the main reason we survive at all is because we have very low tax rates and very inefficient means of collecting taxes coupled with poor environmental standards and workers rights?  This means low social investment e.g. health and education in comparison to our neighbours so we keep on dropping farther behind. Is it not true that those among our competitors who have invested most heavily in infrastructure and services have had the more stable currencies?

 

       Why is the currency we use significant anyway, surely it is the value and stability of the currency that counts? Isn't it the lesson of the Euro that remaining o/s currency blocks enables small countries to regulate their economies more efficiently?

 

 

I support the Union but rightly get no say. However, if Scotland does go independent in future, it would get my best wishes and I actually think the SNP’s change of policy on currency is sensible. Keep the pound for an interim transitional period and set up a Scottish Pound later. To be truly independent, a fundamental economic lever is monetary policy and the ability to set interest rates which suit yourself. You can only do that with your own currency and Central Bank. A Scottish Pound May have a difficult birth but it would eventually float, find its level  and stabilise, gaining recognition in the markets.  If that had been the policy in 2014, I believe the result would have been closer.

[JackLadd]

Greece unemployment 18%. Scotland 3.5%.

 

Tell me the benefits of life on the EU fringes again. What has Brussels done for them?

[SwindonJambo]

5 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

Greece unemployment 18%. Scotland 3.5%.

 

Tell me the benefits of life on the EU fringes again. What has Brussels done for them?

 

They should never have been allowed to join the Euro. They grossly fudged their figures to gain admission and it's backfired horribly 

[pablo]

32 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

I support the Union but rightly get no say. However, if Scotland does go independent in future, it would get my best wishes and I actually think the SNP’s change of policy on currency is sensible. Keep the pound for an interim transitional period and set up a Scottish Pound later. To be truly independent, a fundamental economic lever is monetary policy and the ability to set interest rates which suit yourself. You can only do that with your own currency and Central Bank. A Scottish Pound May have a difficult birth but it would eventually float, find its level  and stabilise, gaining recognition in the markets.  If that had been the policy in 2014, I believe the result would have been closer.

 

I'm not so sure. People are generally speaking risk-averse when it comes to their salaries, pensions and property values.

 

An independent Scotland would have the start up costs, a huge budget deficit and an annual payback to the UK for our share of debt.

 

Then set up a central bank and launch a new currency in a bitterly divided country.

 

I guess if enough people have nothing left to lose, it could happen.

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

34 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

Have we not just seen the devaluation of the u.k. pound by about 25% as a result of our decision to leave the EU? Is it not reasonable to assume that this devaluation will increase when we leave the EU and if Scotland does not leave then surely it would be reasonable to expect that any separate currency here would not suffer as much and may even benefit from it?

 

 

The pound was overvaled by between 5%-15% maybe even as much as 20% for years before the brexit vote, so it was due to fall, a financial readjustment so to speak, it was just a question of when and what the trigger would be, the brexit vote provided that trigger.

 

The IMF said back in 2015 that the pound was overvalued.

https://fullfact.org/economy/exchange-rates-and-imf/

 

And here is another article from 2015 saying that the pound is the most overvalued currency in the world.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/12065157/Pound-is-most-overvalued-currency-in-the-world-analysts-claim.html

 

As said if it hadn't have been the brexit vote it would have been something else that triggered the fall, I can remember seeing reports on Bloomberg where city expert after city expert were predicting a fall to about $1.20 or lower and parity with the Euro such was their view of how much the pound was overvaled by, and this was before the brexit vote took place.

 

This is why I have never been concerned whatsoever over the fall of the pound, simply because I knew if was only a matter of time before the readjustment took place, the city knew this, the only thing they didn't know was when and what the trigger would be.

[coconut doug]

32 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

Greece unemployment 18%. Scotland 3.5%.

 

Tell me the benefits of life on the EU fringes again. What has Brussels done for them?

https://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/mapapps/elections/EUdiscontent.html

 

The Eu is particularly popular on the periphery as the above map shows where lots of money has been spent through European social fund and various infrastructure programmes. Have you ever been? i have and keep seeing signs showing how much the EU has contributed to various types of projects. All the details are available online for those who want to know. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

3 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

I'm not so sure. People are generally speaking risk-averse when it comes to their salaries, pensions and property values.

 

An independent Scotland would have the start up costs, a huge budget deficit and an annual payback to the UK for our share of debt.

 

Then set up a central bank and launch a new currency in a bitterly divided country.

 

I guess if enough people have nothing left to lose, it could happen.

 

 

 

And that isn't going to be a cheap thing to do.

[coconut doug]

4 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

I'm not so sure. People are generally speaking risk-averse when it comes to their salaries, pensions and property values.

 

An independent Scotland would have the start up costs, a huge budget deficit and an annual payback to the UK for our share of debt.

 

Then set up a central bank and launch a new currency in a bitterly divided country.

 

I guess if enough people have nothing left to lose, it could happen.

 

 

Scotland has no budget deficit. Scotland may well inherit some of the national debt but we would also have to acquire a proportionate amount of assets making us no better or worse off than the UK generally. The debt of course is not accrued by Scotland and so Scotland would have no legal obligation to pay it. That is the privilege of the continuing state apparently.

 

New currencies have been launched before without crippling the countries that did it and it goes without saying that there will be start up costs but these will be partially offset at least by our no longer having to contribute to a massive, moribund government monolith perhaps best exemplified by the House of Lords.

 

We need a new central bank anyway the current one serves the interests of capital and not the country.

 

If people do not want to accept an independent Scotland that is their problem. they could of course migrate to rUk if the meet the entry requirements of that country post Brexit.