BobbyJenkins Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Im delighted the way the clubs going, just so you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch41 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) 18 hours ago, Class of 75 said: First time on Kickback as a member as usually happy just to read other supporters' comments. However, the events over the past couple of seasons and especially at Fir Park on Sunday have given me cause for concern on which direction the club is heading. I have been watching Hearts for 35 years and like other supporters have seen some highs and lows but I am becoming concerned at the way in which the club is failing to grasp the momentum gained since bouncing back from administration and we are in effect going backwards. I appreciate that we are building a new Stand and the financial strains that involves, but the standard of player brought through the doors at Tynecastle is way below the standard expected given our resources from FOH and general gate receipts. Players such as Docherty, Davidson and dare i say it Windass were available yet get over looked by our scoutung system. When smaller clubs like Motherwell and Kilmarnock, who have attendances almost a 10th of ours and are challenging us for a top 6 place, and the horrible lot across the other side if the city are 10 points ahead then questions have to be asked. Motherwell should not have been able to lay a gpove on a confident attacking Hearts side. How can a club with a fan base of just over 2, 000 have the resources to assemble a squad to knock us out of the Scottish Cup? Furthermore, even if as pointed out we sign quality players such as Naismith and Lafferty but play them in a defensive manner then again it should be scrutinised. Levein was a great servant of this club as a player but his time as Manager this time around is circumspect. I would hope that change is considered but have it on good authority that Ann Budge will not work without Levein. These are just my thoughts for what they are worth. Fabulous post and worthy of having it brought to the attention of Ann Budge & the Hearts Board. I wouldn't object Levein going back to his DOF role but with no direct influence of a manager who has to have complete control over the Hearts first team. A manager who has proved himself at another club and not a untried gamble like Cathro. A manager who can choose his assistant and backroom staff. Will Ann Budge do the right thing by our team or will we soldier on until the start of next season. Edited March 7, 2018 by mitch41 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 18 minutes ago, BobbyJenkins said: Im delighted the way the clubs going, just so you know. Fabulous post which should be brought to the attention of Ann. We have had a few hiccoughs and made some mistakes but overall we are in much better shape than we dared think about on admin day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, BobbyJenkins said: Im delighted the way the clubs going, just so you know. Where are we going again? Edited March 7, 2018 by Thomaso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedro Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 13 minutes ago, Thomaso said: Where are we going again? Was thinking that myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Quite happy to give Levein time but we can't accept mediocrity long term. At the same time, people have to be a bit more pragmatic about where we are and where we've come from, any new coach would face the same tasks. Next season is massive, we may need to sign as many as 14 New players and our minimum expectation is 4th, which is no easy task but must be met next season. If it doesn't happen next season then I think we have to have another look at how things are run on the football side of things l. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnB Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 31 minutes ago, mitch41 said: Fabulous post and worthy of having it brought to the attention of Ann Budge & the Hearts Board. I wouldn't object Levein going back to his DOF role but with no direct influence of a manager who has to have complete control over the Hearts first team. A manager who has proved himself at another club and not a untried gamble like Cathro. A manager who can choose his assistant and backroom staff. Will Ann Budge do the right thing by our team or will we soldier on until the start of next season. She's undoubtably a strong woman but I fear (stating the obvious) she hasn't quite got the balls for the former. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyJenkins Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 28 minutes ago, Thomaso said: Where are we going again? Patience Thomaso, patience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedro Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, JohnB said: She's undoubtably a strong woman but I fear (stating the obvious) she hasn't quite got the balls for the former. Wonderful successful business woman but she is totally dependent on Levein when it comes to the running of the footballing side of things and that is the problem because even if Levein left his hot seat he'd only return to the Director of Football role to still have a major input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnB Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Shedro said: Wonderful successful business woman but she is totally dependent on Levein when it comes to the running of the footballing side of things and that is the problem because even if Levein left his hot seat he'd only return to the Director of Football role to still have a major input. Well then, it appears that Craig has us over a barrel and that's not an ideal position to be in. Being a board member too doesn't help. For as long as he decides to stay with club it looks like it'll be "his way or the highway". Edited March 7, 2018 by JohnB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendricks Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, JohnB said: Well then, it appears that Craig has us over a barrel and that's not an ideal position to be in. Being a board member too doesn't help. For as long as he decides to stay with club it looks like it'll be "his way or the highway". The conflict of interests is a complete disgrace. Given her vast success and experience in the business world allowing that to happen is easily the worst decision Budge has made during her tenure. It gives an indication of how much influence Levein holds over her that he was able to fanagle that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford donald Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 hour ago, mitch41 said: Fabulous post and worthy of having it brought to the attention of Ann Budge & the Hearts Board. I wouldn't object Levein going back to his DOF role but with no direct influence of a manager who has to have complete control over the Hearts first team. A manager who has proved himself at another club and not a untried gamble like Cathro. A manager who can choose his assistant and backroom staff. Will Ann Budge do the right thing by our team or will we soldier on until the start of next season. AB surely cannot be happy watching the football we are producing,the problem is in front of her nose.CL cannot have two contracts,I would think his contract as a manager dissolves his DOF one,maybe he negotiated differently I hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, JamboAl said: Fabulous post which should be brought to the attention of Ann. We have had a few hiccoughs and made some mistakes but overall we are in much better shape than we dared think about on admin day! And Rangers are in a much better shape than their fans could have dared think about (well if they had brains) on liquidation day. We need to move on from being grateful for having survived. Thanks in large part to us. Edited March 7, 2018 by Francis Albert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Out Attack Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 11 minutes ago, Hendricks said: The conflict of interests is a complete disgrace. Given her vast success and experience in the business world allowing that to happen is easily the worst decision Budge has made during her tenure. It gives an indication of how much influence Levein holds over her that he was able to fanagle that situation. This is a major concern without doubt, however Budge has shown some balls previously, by forcing Levein into the managers role in the first place. He is now at least in a position where he cab be sacked, as opposed to being DOF and untouchable. I do think her failing will be waiting too long to get it done, and then having to react to supporter anger, rather than doing it before we reach breaking point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnB Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, All Out Attack said: This is a major concern without doubt, however Budge has shown some balls previously, by forcing Levein into the managers role in the first place. He is now at least in a position where he cab be sacked, as opposed to being DOF and untouchable. I do think her failing will be waiting too long to get it done, and then having to react to supporter anger, rather than doing it before we reach breaking point. I think "forcing" is maybe a bit strong - "talked into" might be more accurate. Just my feeling though. Who knows what his contractual situation is? He can't be being paid as DOF and head coach/manager and I would think that he'll be holding onto the higher paid of the two jobs and that would probably be DOF and he's head coach/manager in name only. The problem is that with Craig being a board member it would be rather difficult to make a board decision on sacking him without something being done in secret behind his back a la "night of the long knives" and I can't see Ann contemplating (or doing) that. As I said earlier, it would appear we're over a barrel here. Edited March 7, 2018 by JohnB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch41 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 2 hours ago, JamboAl said: Fabulous post which should be brought to the attention of Ann. We have had a few hiccoughs and made some mistakes but overall we are in much better shape than we dared think about on admin day! Why do people bring up admin. day we're beaten that and have no debt and money in the bank. You say we've had a few hiccups and mistakes but really our football team has been mismanaged since we got promoted. Too many of the signings have seen us waste millions of pounds on players that were never even good enough for Cowdenbeath. Cathro & Levein have failed have Hearts to play in a style that wins games and entertains. Hearts are dire to watch and fans are turned off by the same old pathetic tactics. As well as home games i've been to Partick, Dundee, St Johnstone, Hibs ect and our performances have been unexceptable for a club like Hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 21 hours ago, Class of 75 said: First time on Kickback as a member as usually happy just to read other supporters' comments. However, the events over the past couple of seasons and especially at Fir Park on Sunday have given me cause for concern on which direction the club is heading. I have been watching Hearts for 35 years and like other supporters have seen some highs and lows but I am becoming concerned at the way in which the club is failing to grasp the momentum gained since bouncing back from administration and we are in effect going backwards. I appreciate that we are building a new Stand and the financial strains that involves, but the standard of player brought through the doors at Tynecastle is way below the standard expected given our resources from FOH and general gate receipts. Players such as Docherty, Davidson and dare i say it Windass were available yet get over looked by our scoutung system. When smaller clubs like Motherwell and Kilmarnock, who have attendances almost a 10th of ours and are challenging us for a top 6 place, and the horrible lot across the other side if the city are 10 points ahead then questions have to be asked. Motherwell should not have been able to lay a gpove on a confident attacking Hearts side. How can a club with a fan base of just over 2, 000 have the resources to assemble a squad to knock us out of the Scottish Cup? Furthermore, even if as pointed out we sign quality players such as Naismith and Lafferty but play them in a defensive manner then again it should be scrutinised. Levein was a great servant of this club as a player but his time as Manager this time around is circumspect. I would hope that change is considered but have it on good authority that Ann Budge will not work without Levein. These are just my thoughts for what they are worth. Yeah Christophe Berra, John McLaughlin, Kyle Lafferty, Dimitri Mitchell and Stephen Naismith are well below what I expect at Hearts right enough. What a dreadful post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Francis Albert said: And Rangers are in a much better shape than their fans could have dared think about (well if they had brains) on liquidation day. We need to move on from being grateful for having survived. Thanks in large part to us. If some of the speculation on this board surrounding Rangers is true I would not want to be in the same shape as them. That apart, their crowds and gate money far exceeds ours so they clearly have a bigger financial turnover. They also do not have a new stand to pay for. Once that is sorted I think we will really move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmore Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Has Craig Levein got a black belt in tantric fitbaw? It's brutal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 6 minutes ago, JamboAl said: If some of the speculation on this board surrounding Rangers is true I would not want to be in the same shape as them. That apart, their crowds and gate money far exceeds ours so they clearly have a bigger financial turnover. They also do not have a new stand to pay for. Once that is sorted I think we will really move on. OK let me try another. Hibs after spending three consecutive years in a lower division could not have expected to be where they are now. Can we please stop making excuses for why we are struggling to finish ahead of Motherwell and Kilmarnock who each have crowds one quarter of ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 20 minutes ago, mitch41 said: Why do people bring up admin. day we're beaten that and have no debt and money in the bank. You say we've had a few hiccups and mistakes but really our football team has been mismanaged since we got promoted. Too many of the signings have seen us waste millions of pounds on players that were never even good enough for Cowdenbeath. Cathro & Levein have failed have Hearts to play in a style that wins games and entertains. Hearts are dire to watch and fans are turned off by the same old pathetic tactics. As well as home games i've been to Partick, Dundee, St Johnstone, Hibs ect and our performances have been unexceptable for a club like Hearts. OK it did not happen. With your skill in Accountancy and Economics I thought you'd realise that when we started from scratch on Budgement day we were desperate to avoid a recurrence. Every penny counted. That meant we were shopping in Poundland, not Harrods. When you operate in a lower market you often have to take big risks and it is inevitable that many of these will not work out. It is naive to think otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Francis Albert said: OK let me try another. Hibs after spending three consecutive years in a lower division could not have expected to be where they are now. Can we please stop making excuses for why we are struggling to finish ahead of Motherwell and Kilmarnock who each have crowds one quarter of ours. I couldn't give a sh*t what they did or did not do. What I do know is that is they haven't been building a new stand and I wonder what state their balance sheet is in. Have a look and let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, JamboAl said: I couldn't give a sh*t what they did or did not do. What I do know is that is they haven't been building a new stand and I wonder what state their balance sheet is in. Have a look and let me know. If you don't give a shit why are you wondering about their balance sheet? I am more interested in Hearts, what the latest full cost of the new stand is, how much more money is needed to fund it, and what its impact on our playing budget is (eg does it make it difficult for us to compete with Motherwell and Hamilton?). I'd have a look if Hearts had told us, Edited March 7, 2018 by Francis Albert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, JamboAl said: OK it did not happen. With your skill in Accountancy and Economics I thought you'd realise that when we started from scratch on Budgement day we were desperate to avoid a recurrence. Every penny counted. That meant we were shopping in Poundland, not Harrods. When you operate in a lower market you often have to take big risks and it is inevitable that many of these will not work out. It is naive to think otherwise. About 13500 ST sales, no debt, £3.8m subsidy from FoH , (not including the £m contribution to the stand). Did we make anything like best use of the "pennies" we had? More pennies than the Kilmarnocks and Motherwells can dream of. Edited March 7, 2018 by Francis Albert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 17 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: About 13500 ST sales, no debt, £3.8m subsidy from FoH , (not including the £m contribution to the stand). Did we make anything like best use of the "pennies" we had? More pennies than the Kilmarnocks and Motherwells can dream of. You tellum Franny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 3 hours ago, mitch41 said: Fabulous post and worthy of having it brought to the attention of Ann Budge & the Hearts Board. I wouldn't object Levein going back to his DOF role but with no direct influence of a manager who has to have complete control over the Hearts first team. A manager who has proved himself at another club and not a untried gamble like Cathro. A manager who can choose his assistant and backroom staff. Will Ann Budge do the right thing by our team or will we soldier on until the start of next season. Such as? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford donald Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 33 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: About 13500 ST sales, no debt, £3.8m subsidy from FoH , (not including the £m contribution to the stand). Did we make anything like best use of the "pennies" we had? More pennies than the Kilmarnocks and Motherwells can dream of. We have wasted a hell of lot more money on contracts for duds, than Hibs have=poor management! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 48 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: OK let me try another. Hibs after spending three consecutive years in a lower division could not have expected to be where they are now. Can we please stop making excuses for why we are struggling to finish ahead of Motherwell and Kilmarnock who each have crowds one quarter of ours. Ok, first season after promotion back to top league we finished third. Will Hibs beat that? Will Hibs match that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 42 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: If you don't give a shit why are you wondering about their balance sheet? I am more interested in Hearts, what the latest full cost of the new stand is, how much more money is needed to fund it, and what its impact on our playing budget is (eg does it make it difficult for us to compete with Motherwell and Hamilton?). I'd have a look if Hearts had told us, Owner told us in December. Do you think you deserve monthly spend updates? She outlined how it’s to be paid for as well. Go read output from AGM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 40 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: About 13500 ST sales, no debt, £3.8m subsidy from FoH , (not including the £m contribution to the stand). Did we make anything like best use of the "pennies" we had? More pennies than the Kilmarnocks and Motherwells can dream of. 13,500 season tickets at roughly £250 each for three years is £10m subsidy from FoH is £3.8m, I’ll take your word for it benefactors £3m for stand Total is roughly £16-17m over three years. Stand will cost £15m. I’d say the finances have been managed extremely well and we have done really well to attract Berra, Lafferty, Naismith et al on the few pennies left over and still debt-free. Quite remarkable to have virtually paid for a new stand and attracted that level of player just 3-4 years after exiting Admin. As a comparison, where do you think Rangers would be if they had tried to build a £15m stand over the same period? I’d hazard a guess that they would be keepin Third Lanark Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendricks Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) 59 minutes ago, JamboAl said: I couldn't give a sh*t what they did or did not do. What I do know is that is they haven't been building a new stand and I wonder what state their balance sheet is in. Have a look and let me know. The new stand has nothing to do with the grossly negligent recruitment policy that has seen us spunk hundreds of thousands on countless incompetent footballers. At a time when we should have been even more careful and astute and done our homework even more diligently we’ve wasted the fans money on crap. Who has been held accountable for this? Anyone? The fact is that regardless of the new stand expense Hearts are underachieving and still have a budget far exceeding clubs we are regularly losing to and seeing in cup finals etc. Sorry but it doesn’t wash anymore, the excuses are pathetic and until we get significant change in our football department we will continue to fail. Edited March 7, 2018 by Hendricks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 11 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: Owner told us in December. Do you think you deserve monthly spend updates? She outlined how it’s to be paid for as well. Go read output from AGM She didn't tell us all that and since then the work seems to have ground to a halt while we have yet another rethink on the design and timetable. According to what Ann told the Sun, not us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendricks Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: 13,500 season tickets at roughly £250 each for three years is £10m subsidy from FoH is £3.8m, I’ll take your word for it benefactors £3m for stand Total is roughly £16-17m over three years. Stand will cost £15m. I’d say the finances have been managed extremely well and we have done really well to attract Berra, Lafferty, Naismith et al on the few pennies left over and still debt-free. Quite remarkable to have virtually paid for a new stand and attracted that level of player just 3-4 years after exiting Admin. As a comparison, where do you think Rangers would be if they had tried to build a £15m stand over the same period? I’d hazard a guess that they would be keepin Third Lanark Company. “The few pennies left over”!!!!! What world do you live in. Cloud ****ing cuckooo land by the looks of things. There are literally not enough face palms. We have wasted hundreds of thousands of pounds on an appalling recruitment policy on the likes of Oshinawa and Martin and handing out lengthy contracts to the likes of Sammon and countless others. There has been a plentiful budget to see us in a much better position that we are but the footballing department have failed continually. Both in the cup competitions and to do anything of note in the SPL. The current head coach has managed 8 wins in 25 league games which whilst an improvement on his predecessor who he of course chose is still utterly shite for a club of Hearts size given our resources and the competition. You sir are nothing but an apologist for failure and mediocrity. Edited March 7, 2018 by Hendricks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Francis Albert said: She didn't tell us all that and since then the work seems to have ground to a halt while we have yet another rethink on the design and timetable. According to what Ann told the Sun, not us. I was at the AGM and she told us the design and outfitting of remaining hospitality, retail and home dressing rooms were being re-thought and as a result wouldn’t be finished until summer. Probably all too large in original design and consideration was being given to designing a fans bar into the new stand and reducing size of other planned areas. Players had reviewed size of proposed home dressing room and were unanimous that it was too big and not designed the way they would want it. No surprise work has stopped. There are flow of people issues between the seating and hospitality that need re-working as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, Hendricks said: “The few pennies left over”!!!!! What world do you live in. Cloud ****ing cuckooo land by the looks of things There are literally not enough face palms. We have wasted hundreds of thousands of pounds on an appalling recruitment policy on the likes of Oshinawa and Martin and handing out lengthy contracts to the likes of Sammon and countless others. There has been a plentiful budget to see is in s much better position that we are but the footballing department have failed continually. Both in the cup competitions and to do anything of note in the SPL. The current head coach has managed 8 wins in 25 league games which whilst an improvement on his predecessor who he of course chose is still utterly shite for a club of Hearts size given our resources and the competition. You sir are nothing but an apologist for failure and mediocrity. Those were someone else’s words not mine. I was just responding. Don’t shoot the messenger. Another baseless rant from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: 13,500 season tickets at roughly £250 each for three years is £10m subsidy from FoH is £3.8m, I’ll take your word for it benefactors £3m for stand Total is roughly £16-17m over three years. Stand will cost £15m. I’d say the finances have been managed extremely well and we have done really well to attract Berra, Lafferty, Naismith et al on the few pennies left over and still debt-free. Quite remarkable to have virtually paid for a new stand and attracted that level of player just 3-4 years after exiting Admin. As a comparison, where do you think Rangers would be if they had tried to build a £15m stand over the same period? I’d hazard a guess that they would be keepin Third Lanark Company. The total ST revenue is not all going towards the new stand! There are costs of running the club .. and spunking money through bad recruitment. The total FoH subsidy to date is £3.8m for "working capital" (in practice about £3m of which was used to build a "reserve" which was part of the funding for the new stand) plus £3m direct contribution to funding of the new stand. There was also some further "benefactor" funding on top of the original £3m. Total maybe £10m to £11m). So there is still a funding gap of several million. (Potential debenture and 500 club finance sources have for some reason not been tapped yet.) But with all that we should still be comfortably ahead of Killie and Motherwell if properly managed on field. Edited March 7, 2018 by Francis Albert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendricks Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: Those were someone else’s words not mine. I was just responding. Don’t shoot the messenger. Another baseless rant from you. “I’d say the finances have been managed extremely well” = your words!!!!!! As I say, utterly clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: I was at the AGM and she told us the design and outfitting of remaining hospitality, retail and home dressing rooms were being re-thought and as a result wouldn’t be finished until summer. Probably all too large in original design and consideration was being given to designing a fans bar into the new stand and reducing size of other planned areas. Players had reviewed size of proposed home dressing room and were unanimous that it was too big and not designed the way they would want it. No surprise work has stopped. There are flow of people issues between the seating and hospitality that need re-working as well. The Sun interview didn't suggest to me the stand would be completed in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 11 minutes ago, Hendricks said: The new stand has nothing to do with the grossly negligent recruitment policy that has seen us spunk hundreds of thousands on countless incompetent footballers. At a time when we should have been even more careful and astute and done our homework even more diligently we’ve wasted the fans money on crap. Who has been held accountable for this? Anyone? The fact is that regardless of the new stand expense Hearts are underachieving and still have a budget far exceeding clubs we are regularly losing to and seeing in cup finals etc. Sorry but it doesn’t wash anymore, the excuses are pathetic and until we get significant change in our football department we will continue to fail. Of course it has. The Poundland v Harrods comparison is clearly accurate. Without the stand it may have been BHS v Harrods but that would still have meant taking a punt on many players. I think you seriously over-rate how much some of the foreigners were paid. A number of them just wanted game time so were happy to play here for accommodation and not a great wage. For many of them it worked. Greeks, Struna all went on to get bigger contracts than they had here despite been categorised as failures by all on here. We haven’t wasted hundreds of thousands because what were the alternatives at the given times? We haven’t been able to afford a decent transfer fee since coming out of Admin. Think £200k max. So basically shopping around the free transfer market is where we have been. We are just coming out of that market now and it will be a year or two, or a large Souter transfer fee, before we are spending serious money on transfer fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: The total ST revenue is not all going towards the new stand! There are costs of running the club .. and spunking money through bad recruitment. The total FoH subsidy to date is £3.8m for "working capital" (in practice about £3m of which was used to build a "reserve" which was part of the funding for the new stand) plus £3m direct contribution to funding of the new stand. There was also some further "benefactor" funding on top of the original £3m. Total maybe £10m to £11m). So there is still a funding gap of several million. (Potential debenture and 500 club finance sources have for some reason not been tapped yet.) But with all that we should still be comfortably ahead of Killie and Motherwell if properly managed on field. I never said it was. I was trying to show you that the money you said had been wasted was equivalent to what is being spent on the stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 13 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: I was at the AGM and she told us the design and outfitting of remaining hospitality, retail and home dressing rooms were being re-thought and as a result wouldn’t be finished until summer. Probably all too large in original design and consideration was being given to designing a fans bar into the new stand and reducing size of other planned areas. Players had reviewed size of proposed home dressing room and were unanimous that it was too big and not designed the way they would want it. No surprise work has stopped. There are flow of people issues between the seating and hospitality that need re-working as well. The excuse for ne of the early delays (after the seats fiasco) was that Ann had reviewed the plans and decided that things like toilets and kiosks needed to be redesigned. And now we are seemingly redesigning most of the rest of the back of the stand. I think the praise for the stand project and its management is over-played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 10 minutes ago, Hendricks said: “I’d say the finances have been managed extremely well” = your words!!!!!! As I say, utterly clueless. Explain please. What would you have done differently with the club’s finances since exiting Admin? Most fans I speak to are amazed with how well we are doing financially. Rebuilding club infrastrucure, academy, first team, stand and still debt-free and top 6. Not enough for the entitlement boys I know but pretty decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: I never said it was. I was trying to show you that the money you said had been wasted was equivalent to what is being spent on the stand. Sorry but I can make no sense of that at all. What money did I say was being wasted and how is it equivalent to what is being spent on the new stand? We've wasted money on recruitment but hardly £15m worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: The excuse for ne of the early delays (after the seats fiasco) was that Ann had reviewed the plans and decided that things like toilets and kiosks needed to be redesigned. And now we are seemingly redesigning most of the rest of the back of the stand. I think the praise for the stand project and its management is over-played. Agree re some aspects of it but what’s done is done. It’s actually great that they spotted this before construction was completed. Most building projects undergo some element of redesign whilst under construction so nothing new here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyJenkins Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: Explain please. What would you have done differently with the club’s finances since exiting Admin? Most fans I speak to are amazed with how well we are doing financially. Rebuilding club infrastrucure, academy, first team, stand and still debt-free and top 6. Not enough for the entitlement boys I know but pretty decent. He'd have got every single decision correct. Zero dud signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendricks Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: Of course it has. The Poundland v Harrods comparison is clearly accurate. Without the stand it may have been BHS v Harrods but that would still have meant taking a punt on many players. I think you seriously over-rate how much some of the foreigners were paid. A number of them just wanted game time so were happy to play here for accommodation and not a great wage. For many of them it worked. Greeks, Struna all went on to get bigger contracts than they had here despite been categorised as failures by all on here. We haven’t wasted hundreds of thousands because what were the alternatives at the given times? We haven’t been able to afford a decent transfer fee since coming out of Admin. Think £200k max. So basically shopping around the free transfer market is where we have been. We are just coming out of that market now and it will be a year or two, or a large Souter transfer fee, before we are spending serious money on transfer fees. Nonsense. If Martin sits and sees out his contract or we pay off the remainder so he never darkens our door again he will have taken well in excess of half a million from Hearts. Similarly Oshinawa. That’s a million pounds right there in wages never mind any signing on fee. And that’s just two players who contributed absolutely diddly squat. Whilst in time it’s hoped our finances will be able to reflect a bigger player budget and some more ambition in our targets there are no excuses whatsoever for the continual disastrous mistakes in player recruitment. We have pissed the fans money up against a wall time and again. Trusting the same person to sign off on further transfers given the catalogue of failure is idiotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch41 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 hour ago, JamboAl said: OK it did not happen. With your skill in Accountancy and Economics I thought you'd realise that when we started from scratch on Budgement day we were desperate to avoid a recurrence. Every penny counted. That meant we were shopping in Poundland, not Harrods. When you operate in a lower market you often have to take big risks and it is inevitable that many of these will not work out. It is naive to think otherwise. Give it a break Hearts pay the 4th highest wage after Celtic Rangers & Aberdeen so please don't come the piggy bank is empty. And your wee go at me about Admin never happened is shamefull. We shouldn't be making big risks because it costs millions of pounds. Lazy scouting and bad judgement is the cause of signing players who can't perform in the Premiership. You live in a fantasy word full of accepting dire incompetent football. I feel you need to start believing that Hearts as a club and it's fans deserve better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendricks Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: Explain please. What would you have done differently with the club’s finances since exiting Admin? Most fans I speak to are amazed with how well we are doing financially. Rebuilding club infrastrucure, academy, first team, stand and still debt-free and top 6. Not enough for the entitlement boys I know but pretty decent. You must speak to some complete dafties. I tend to speak to people who know what they are talking about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucille's Thirsty Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Craig Levein is for me the right man for the foreseeable future, you can look at some of our stand out results and with the midfield that we have shows you he’s done a very decent job considering the start. I will start criticising CL next season when he has had a full pre season to get his own longer term targets and if performances don’t improve then we can start doubting him. When CL was appointed he did exactly what I hoped he would do. Making us far more hard to beat, being up for the bigger games especially at home. The consistency isn’t there at all, there’s been far two many draws at home. I hope CL and Ann are sitting down over the rest of the season to map out what players we’re going to be after and make them long term ones. It seems with every summer we are rebuilding. Needs to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartofHartley Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 39 minutes ago, Hendricks said: “The few pennies left over”!!!!! What world do you live in. Cloud ****ing cuckooo land by the looks of things. There are literally not enough face palms. We have wasted hundreds of thousands of pounds on an appalling recruitment policy on the likes of Oshinawa and Martin and handing out lengthy contracts to the likes of Sammon and countless others. There has been a plentiful budget to see us in a much better position that we are but the footballing department have failed continually. Both in the cup competitions and to do anything of note in the SPL. The current head coach has managed 8 wins in 25 league games which whilst an improvement on his predecessor who he of course chose is still utterly shite for a club of Hearts size given our resources and the competition. You sir are nothing but an apologist for failure and mediocrity. Totally agree the level of acceptance for years of mediocrity is a disgrace to the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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