Levein is not the answer ( merged )

[Billybuffjaw]

11 minutes ago, Prof said:

 

try changing your pants. Seriously we are back to the Cathro excuses... give him time etc. All bollocks of course. The Cathro cheerleaders now are backing Levein. Instead of playing in front of a full stadium we'll be back to 13k if we lose against Hibs. That should settle Annes mind and CL will be off. 

Craig Levein will be here long after you're gone.

[Thommo414]

I'm gonna put my neck on the line here. There's people pissing and moaning about levein being too defensively minded.

 

I wasn't around in the 80s...where did Levein play? 

[Thomaso]

Levein IS the answer - the problem is the question was "how do we prevent a defeat"...........

Edited March 5, 2018 by Thomaso

[Ministry of Football]

4 hours ago, God like creature said:

I suppose thrashing Celtic,

knocking hibs out the cup,

blooding some fantastic young players is a hard act to follow but I’ll give him a summer transfer window and a pre season before I even think he should be replaced.

Levein is a PHM and only wants the best for the club.

 

We have played over 30 games this season and you are highlighting two.

 

Our goals scored record is excruciatingly bad.

The football has often been attritional and not a good watch.

We are out the cup.

We may not even finish top 6.

The young players may very well be part of the problem and actually be holding us back. Proven SPFL quality players will always be better. 

It could be said that Levein wants what's best for Levein, not Hearts. He imposed Cathro on us and then he did not want to fire him either. How does that fit with PHM.

Levein in charge will not encourage supporters to buy season tickets and I predict perhaps a 10% fall, minimum, next season. This really worries me.     

 

Edited March 5, 2018 by Ministry of Football

[Thomaso]

2 hours ago, Billybuffjaw said:

Craig Levein will be here long after you're gone.

 

 

Why? Does the poor lad have something terminal??

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 hours ago, Thomaso said:

 

 

Why? Does the poor lad have something terminal??

 

Verminitis would be my guess! 

[maroonnicky63]

Give him a decent budget and he will do the job and bring in a better quality of player but that's up to Anne who seems to be avoiding any negativity on here and most are having a go at Levein who really isn't doing that bad a job considering the quality of player being brought in.

[Coco]

3 minutes ago, maroonnicky63 said:

Give him a decent budget and he will do the job and bring in a better quality of player but that's up to Anne who seems to be avoiding any negativity on here and most are having a go at Levein who really isn't doing that bad a job considering the quality of player being brought in.

The swap of Goncalves for remedial fitness class Amankawa looks a dreadful one as it stands.  Binning Goal Stockton without replacement was also bizarre.  One first team striker left!

[Ministry]

10 minutes ago, maroonnicky63 said:

Give him a decent budget and he will do the job and bring in a better quality of player but that's up to Anne who seems to be avoiding any negativity on here and most are having a go at Levein who really isn't doing that bad a job considering the quality of player being brought in.

He has a decent budget. His budget is well in excess of Morherwell, Killie, Ross County. All teams he has failed to beat in the past month. 

[Lambo85]

If we don’t make the top 6 then serious questions need to be asked about Craig Levein’s future at Hearts. Not making the top 6 for a club like Hearts is totally embarrassing. A top 6 finish is the bare minimum I would expect from our club. 

The other thing is that it not making the top 6 would turn our defensive record into a farce and it would all be for nothing. To win games you have to score goals regardless of how well you are defending. Something that Levein has failed to learn throughout most of his managerial career.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Lambo85

[soonbe110]

5 minutes ago, Ministry said:

He has a decent budget. His budget is well in excess of Morherwell, Killie, Ross County. All teams he has failed to beat in the past month. 

Brighton v Arsenal 

Burnley v Everton

Hamilton v Hibs

Hamilton v Rangers

It happens in football. Money doesn’t determine every result. 

[Shedro]

Can't be bothered going through all this but incase it's not been mentioned before we are stuck with Levein regardless of who is coaching the first team squad as he won't relinquish his power as gurenteed he'll be back into his Director of Football shoes having a major input. 

[All Out Attack]

4 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Brighton v Arsenal 

Burnley v Everton

Hamilton v Hibs

Hamilton v Rangers

It happens in football. Money doesn’t determine every result. 

 

There is no hiding place from your league position at the end of the season. Individual results are then meaningless. 

 

 

 

 

[maroonnicky63]

8 minutes ago, Ministry said:

He has a decent budget. His budget is well in excess of Morherwell, Killie, Ross County. All teams he has failed to beat in the past month. 

We are not well in excess of teams like we used to be but I do take your point we should be beating teams like the ones you have mentioned. I see no point in bringing 3 or so  top players like we have and paying them larger salaries in the hope that they will gell the team together we still need better quality players to play along side them.Throwing in young lads is not the answer.

[Ministry]

12 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Brighton v Arsenal 

Burnley v Everton

Hamilton v Hibs

Hamilton v Rangers

It happens in football. Money doesn’t determine every result. 

Was responding to a poster who seemed to believe that Leveins needs a bigger budget to compete with the teams above us. Was making the point we already have a bigger budget than many yet even within the last few weeks we have dropped points on several occasions - not just one off results as posted above. 

Of course budget does not determine every result, not sure where I said it did TBF. It is interesting that nobody outside the OF has won the league in 25 years + tho. Could be a correlation there?. 

[Shanks]

I don't think the budget is an issue, we are probably spending the most money we ever have on wages (excluding Romanov years) 

 

If we don't finish in the top 6 it will be an embarrassment.

[Sir Vladimir of Romanov]

Who is the answer then? 

[DavieG]

Levein and his coaching team's hoofball tactics in the first half showed a complete lack of imagination

 

Why wait until half time to change things and fire up the players?

 

Given all the facilities available to us at Riccarton why is the standard of our set pieces generally awful?

 

Perhaps  we need to review the coaching staff as well 

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Levein is still the man for me. For most of last season and at the beginning of this one we were all over the place - no coherence, a shambles really. But the introduction of guys like Cochrane, McDonald, Irving etc has shown me we're on a better path now. 

 

We have to be realistic about where Hearts should be. I read an interview with one of the De Boers at Ajax (can't remember which one). He was talking about how football has changed so much and they need to move with the times. They're still holding onto the Ajax ethos but they're not chasing unrealistic goals. They're still focussing on youth but are now developing players and coaches "for market", the EPL. 

 

We need to do the same. If we can get to a place where we have a solid league position, a chance at domestic cups, and sell young players on for seven figure sums, or good six figures for academy players like Marc Leonard, then that's good enough for me. The ultimate dream is to be that kind of club and also sneak into the EL group stages at some point. 

 

Two things though. For this strategy to be successful we must play on the front foot more. Most fans want to be entertained. You also increase the chances of allowing young players to show their potential if they are allowed to express themselves and attack. This will mean higher transfer fees. Also, none of this can come at the expense of still having a big club at the top end of Scottish football to consider. It's a delicate balance. Yes, being on the front foot with kids in the team will mean the odd spanking but it also comes with games like the Celtic one. 

 

I've seen enough from Levein that he is at least trying to deliver the model of club described above. I can't think of anybody else who would be as invested in that. 

[jambonian]

Isn't it strange that for the last three years or so, most pundits, fans etc. can see that the team lacks an attacking edge from midfield yet our manager/director of football (whatever he is these days) can't see it?

In that time we have signed more defensive midfielders than for any other position in the team. What actually were the positions of the likes of Nowak or Grzelak and others? Most have been as average as each other and not good enough. Then there's been the left-back problem. Since McHattie and Eckersley there's been Oshaniwa, Rherras, Sowah, probably others, as well as people "filling in" at that position. The scouting for players is crap. Other clubs seem to find players no problem, clubs with low income and hardly any fans to afford them so why is it a problem for us? We don't seen to be able to sign attacking midfielders either, there are/were a few about. Said about 18 months ago it might've been worth taking a chance on Steve Mallan at St Mirren at the time, too late now. Set up goals for team-mates in a poor team, scored plenty himself and had a strong left foot, (probably better than any of the left-backs we've gone through). Then there is Chris Erskine at Partick Thistle, signed from Dundee Utd and gets forward to support the strikers, scores a few himself too. Last year I was impressed by Greg Docherty at Hamilton and thought he might be a good signing with a potential big transfer in future. Again, too late, he's turned up at Rangers2012. And since last season I was impressed every-time I saw Jordan Jones playing for a poor Lee McCulloch Kilmarnock team. No doubt he's too attack-minded for our wonderful leader.

People always come up with "we don't have the money to go out and sign better players" well... how much are the likes of Killie/Partick Th and others paying out? Apparently (according to a financial poll around Christmas time) we are still paying better wages than Hibs even though we've now dropped behind Aberdeen. So how come they had a Scott Allen who they didn't want to lose yet immediately after he left, signed John McGinn?

There's players out there but our scouting is pishpoor. We need scouts to go out to games and check progress on others players at other clubs instead of folk sitting on their arses, watching videos of players and signing them off the back of it. The amount we've gone through is ridiculous, it's no wonder we struggle against just about every team in the League. No consistency. Ann needs to get a grip and sort it or else we're mid-table obscurities for the foreseeable future.

Edited March 6, 2018 by jambonian

[Liamthejambo]

Great post , you can see where the issue sits , our scouts will report directly to the DoF, his vision of how football is played can be summed in a word , archaic . 

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

im sure I've read this before 

[jambonian]

Liamthejambo...Yup, I agree. I'd take Steve Clark from Kilmarnock in a heartbeat. The change in fortune on the pitch since he joined them is like night and day!

He knows about attacking play as does (ahem!!) Lennon (as much as I hate to say it) Levein seems to want to stop players expressing themselves, almost like zonal areas on the field that you must not go past, it's no wonder that a few have been quite happy to get away. We've signed some decent players and they've looked promising when they arrive then within a month or two they look about as bored in a game as the fans are in the stands. Nothing will change though. In the summer transfer window, half a dozen will leave or return to their parent club and we'll sign more like-for-likes as we have since 2015.

Edited March 6, 2018 by jambonian

[Rudy T]

wow another Levien thread...just what we need.

 

we've signed two left backs both attack minded and both injured. Djoum our international attacking midfielder is injured, That Naismith laddie  far too defensive for me, Milinkovic, Amankwaa too defensive, Lafferty what a centre half he is, Cochrane and MacDonald promoted from the youth teams.....but your right I really wish he'd go out and spunk loads more money on attack minded players.

 

[ford donald]

19 hours ago, Coco said:

The swap of Goncalves for remedial fitness class Amankawa looks a dreadful one as it stands.  Binning Goal Stockton without replacement was also bizarre.  One first team striker left!

 Bringing in Stockton to replace Sammon was a bigger disaster.

[jambonian]

 

18 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

wow another Levien thread...just what we need.

 

we've signed two left backs both attack minded and both injured. Djoum our international attacking midfielder is injured, That Naismith laddie  far too defensive for me, Milinkovic, Amankwaa too defensive, Lafferty what a centre half he is, Cochrane and MacDonald promoted from the youth teams.....but your right I really wish he'd go out and spunk loads more money on attack minded players.

 

Missing the point but that's ok. The point was that there are/were players around in our own Leagues that might've been worth going for at not too much money so I don't know what money you refer to us spunking away. Namely attacking midfielders. I'd like to know how much has actually been wasted on about 10 different defensive midfielders in a few short years or left backs that are predominantly right-footed. Or money wasted on loan-signings from higher-end clubs. We signed quite a few players in the January transfer window of 2017 and most, if not all have gone, wasting even more money.

It is great that young Cochrane and McDonald etc are starting to come through but if anyone expects any sort of consistency with 16 year-olds then i'm afraid they're goin to be disappointed. As for Amankkwa...he'll end up another Malory Martin. (Oh look...another waste of money along with Conor Sammon). Djoum was another example of someone who played well when he first arrived but as far as I can see, he's hardly created anything since Paterson left. I like Milinkovic, reminds me a bit of Suso Santana and maybe someone we should try to sign proper rather than loan. Think Levein though has already suggested he'll be away in summer (surprise!) Wasn't exited about the Naismith signing at all but at least he's experienced, so hopefully he finishes the season well before departing.

Edited March 6, 2018 by jambonian

[HeartofHartley]

43 minutes ago, jambonian said:

Isn't it strange that for the last three years or so, most pundits, fans etc. can see that the team lacks an attacking edge from midfield yet our manager/director of football (whatever he is these days) can't see it?

In that time we have signed more defensive midfielders than for any other position in the team. What actually were the positions of the likes of Nowak or Grzelak and others? Most have been as average as each other and not good enough. Then there's been the left-back problem. Since McHattie and Eckersley there's been Oshaniwa, Rherras, Sowah, probably others, as well as people "filling in" at that position. The scouting for players is crap. Other clubs seem to find players no problem, clubs with low income and hardly any fans to afford them so why is it a problem for us? We don't seen to be able to sign attacking midfielders either, there are/were a few about. Said about 18 months ago it might've been worth taking a chance on Steve Mallan at St Mirren at the time, too late now. Set up goals for team-mates in a poor team, scored plenty himself and had a strong left foot, (probably better than any of the left-backs we've gone through). Then there is Chris Erskine at Partick Thistle, signed from Dundee Utd and gets forward to support the strikers, scores a few himself too. Last year I was impressed by Greg Docherty at Hamilton and thought he might be a good signing with a potential big transfer in future. Again, too late, he's turned up at Rangers2012. And since last season I was impressed every-time I saw Jordan Jones playing for a poor Lee McCulloch Kilmarnock team. No doubt he's too attack-minded for our wonderful leader.

People always come up with "we don't have the money to go out and sign better players" well... how much are the likes of Killie/Partick Th and others paying out? Apparently (according to a financial poll around Christmas time) we are still paying better wages than Hibs even though we've now dropped behind Aberdeen. So how come they had a Scott Allen who they didn't want to lose yet immediately after he left, signed John McGinn?

There's players out there but our scouting is pishpoor. We need scouts to go out to games and check progress on others players at other clubs instead of folk sitting on their arses, watching videos of players and signing them off the back of it. The amount we've gone through is ridiculous, it's no wonder we struggle against just about every team in the League. No consistency. Ann needs to get a grip and sort it or else we're mid-table obscurities for the foreseeable future.

Great post. Feel exactly the same to the point where sometimes I wished I got into professional scouting as I reckon I could pick better players than the majority of dross we have had. 

[jambonian]

5 minutes ago, HeartofHartley said:

Great post. Feel exactly the same to the point where sometimes I wished I got into professional scouting as I reckon I could pick better players than the majority of dross we have had. 

Thing is though, you don't have to be a scout or coach or have played professionally (as some suggest) to know where problems lie in a team if you watch football. I've been heading to Tynecastle since 1982, saw some poor teams but the best ones were the ones where we had an attacking style. Football's a simple game in the grand scheme of things. Some people (Levein included) like to complicate things. It's not surprising to me why certain players over the last 2 or 3 years have wanted away.

Edited March 6, 2018 by jambonian

[Rudy T]

4 minutes ago, jambonian said:

 

Missing the point but that's ok. The point was that there are/were players around in our own Leagues that might've been worth going for at not too much money so I don't know what money you refer to us spunking away. Namely attacking midfielders. I'd like to know how much has actually been wasted on about 10 different defensive midfielders in a few short years or left backs that are predominantly right-footed. Or money wasted on loan-signings from higher-end clubs. We signed quite a few players in the January transfer window of 2017 and most, if not all have gone, wasting even more money.

It is great that young Cochrane and McDonald etc are starting to come through but if anyone expects any sort of consistency with 16 year-olds then i'm afraid they're goin to be disappointed. As for Amankkwa...he'll end up another Malory Martin. (Oh look...another waste of money along with Conor Sammon). Djoum was another example of someone who played well when he first arrived but as far as I can see, he's hardly created anything since Paterson left. I like Milinkovic, reminds me a bit of Suso Santana and maybe someone we should try to sign proper rather than loan. Think Levein though has already suggested he'll be away in summer (surprise!) Wasn't exited about the Naismith signing at all but at least he's experienced, so hopefully he finishes the season well before departing.

 

Actually you've missed the point. The clear intention from the end of the championship season was to bring in players that could potentially be sold on at a profit. These players and this policy were a stop gap until the academy was producing quality and quantity into the first team. Unfortunately the gap was just to big to bridge in the  timescales predicted. We  are now seeing this system in full effect and the age groups coming through after this current crop are receiving a lot of praise. We have to an extent sold players on unfortunately some haven't worked out. The January window was Cathro's doing not Leviens, that has been made clear by all parties. If fault lies anywhere its the decision to bring in Cathro. In the summer the club changed the policy to fill the void between the youth team and first team by buying quality proven players as a result we've brought in Berra Naismith Lafferty Milinkovic Adao, we also have Cowie Hughes and Smith. If you cannot see the bigger picture here then you need to step back and have another look. These players with this amount of experience at domestic and  international level will make these youngsters better players and secure a far better balance to our team and squad and reduce drastically the amount we need to spend on transfers while ultimately netting the club a tidy profit.

 

With all this money wasted we've managed to win the championship, qualify for europe, overhaul the entire youth set up and build a new stand. Its clear too many people are desperate to create the next anti hearts/levien thread, its getting embarrassing it really is.

[DavieG]

3 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

Actually you've missed the point. The clear intention from the end of the championship season was to bring in players that could potentially be sold on at a profit. These players and this policy were a stop gap until the academy was producing quality and quantity into the first team. Unfortunately the gap was just to big to bridge in the  timescales predicted. We  are now seeing this system in full effect and the age groups coming through after this current crop are receiving a lot of praise. We have to an extent sold players on unfortunately some haven't worked out. The January window was Cathro's doing not Leviens, that has been made clear by all parties. If fault lies anywhere its the decision to bring in Cathro. In the summer the club changed the policy to fill the void between the youth team and first team by buying quality proven players as a result we've brought in Berra Naismith Lafferty Milinkovic Adao, we also have Cowie Hughes and Smith. If you cannot see the bigger picture here then you need to step back and have another look. These players with this amount of experience at domestic and  international level will make these youngsters better players and secure a far better balance to our team and squad and reduce drastically the amount we need to spend on transfers while ultimately netting the club a tidy profit.

 

With all this money wasted we've managed to win the championship, qualify for europe, overhaul the entire youth set up and build a new stand. Its clear too many people are desperate to create the next anti hearts/levien thread, its getting embarrassing it really is.

So if Levein is that good how do you explain the antiquated hoofball tactics his team displayed for most of the game on Sunday. 

[jambonian]

40 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

Actually you've missed the point. The clear intention from the end of the championship season was to bring in players that could potentially be sold on at a profit. These players and this policy were a stop gap until the academy was producing quality and quantity into the first team. Unfortunately the gap was just to big to bridge in the  timescales predicted. We  are now seeing this system in full effect and the age groups coming through after this current crop are receiving a lot of praise. We have to an extent sold players on unfortunately some haven't worked out. The January window was Cathro's doing not Leviens, that has been made clear by all parties. If fault lies anywhere its the decision to bring in Cathro. In the summer the club changed the policy to fill the void between the youth team and first team by buying quality proven players as a result we've brought in Berra Naismith Lafferty Milinkovic Adao, we also have Cowie Hughes and Smith. If you cannot see the bigger picture here then you need to step back and have another look. These players with this amount of experience at domestic and  international level will make these youngsters better players and secure a far better balance to our team and squad and reduce drastically the amount we need to spend on transfers while ultimately netting the club a tidy profit.

 

With all this money wasted we've managed to win the championship, qualify for europe, overhaul the entire youth set up and build a new stand. Its clear too many people are desperate to create the next anti hearts/levien thread, its getting embarrassing it really is.

 

"The clear intention from the end of the championship season was to bring in players that could potentially be sold on at a profit"

 

So what about in the last, say year or so, signing the likes of Jones from Killie or Docherty from Hamilton wouldn't have been signing players potentially to make a profit in future? That one is down to bad scouting and possibly Levein not identifying potential, Rangers have now got Docherty and it won't be long before Jones' is out the door at Killie, making them a profit. I'm sure Hamilton will have been quite happy as well with the money they got from Rangers2012 fc. Also, most of the players that came through the youth set-up since 2014 haven't really made the grade, Paterson probably the exception, the odd other one here or there still has to prove himself so hopefully the next lot will be better and actually make the club money rather than seeing the Nicholson's of this world who leave for virtually nothing. Some profit!

We all agree that Cathro was an embarrassing episode in the clubs history and I've said before that we should've brought in an experienced manager when Neilson left, not an X-box Fifa player.

I know we've signed a few half decent players but we've also signed more that are/were a waste of money. Money which would've been better spent on players from within our own Leagues or even down south. For what it's worth, we've wasted more money forking out on Grzelak's, Rherras's, Sowah's, Tzolis's and plenty others than we have at making any profit.  As for Cathro signing players last January...yes he did, but Levein had the final say, and what we got was not that great. He should've known better by his experience than Cathro could. It was Levein after-all that signed the likes of Mark de Vries, Ricardo Fuller, Kevin McKenna, Phil Stamp and Paul Hartley in the early 2000s. No-one can say that the Grzelak's, Nowak's etc have been anywhere near the impact these players did. As I say.. bad scouting or lack of effort by Levein, anyone's choice.

Edited March 6, 2018 by jambonian

[Coco]

1 hour ago, ford donald said:

 Bringing in Stockton to replace Sammon was a bigger disaster.

My guess is that Stockton was one from the Brentford sports betting company who had some stat that he hits the target with shots or something.  Another awful signing - but if he wasn't going to be replaced then he could at least have been an option to occupy the Motherwell defenders.

 

The hit rate on strikers under the current regime has been dreadful.

[Bazzas right boot]

26 minutes ago, jambonian said:

 

"The clear intention from the end of the championship season was to bring in players that could potentially be sold on at a profit"

 

So what about in the last, say year or so, signing the likes of Jones from Killie or Docherty from Hamilton wouldn't have been signing players potentially to make a profit in future? That one is down to bad scouting and possibly Levein not identifying potential, Rangers have now got Docherty and it won't be long before Jones' is out the door at Killie, making them a profit. I'm sure Hamilton will have been quite happy as well with the money they got from Rangers2012 fc. Also, most of the players that came through the youth set-up since 2014 haven't really made the grade, Paterson probably the exception, the odd other one here or there still has to prove himself so hopefully the next lot will be better and actually make the club money rather than seeing the Nicholson's of this world who leave for virtually nothing. Some profit!

We all agree that Cathro was an embarrassing episode in the clubs history and I've said before that we should've brought in an experienced manager when Neilson left, not an X-box Fifa player.

I know we've signed a few half decent players but we've also signed more that are/were a waste of money. Money which would've been better spent on players from within our own Leagues or even down south. For what it's worth, we've wasted more money forking out on Grzelak's, Rherras's, Sowah's, Tzolis's and plenty others than we have at making any profit.  As for Cathro signing players last January...yes he did, but Levein had the final say, and what we got was not that great. He should've known better by his experience than Cathro could. It was Levein after-all that signed the likes of Mark de Vries, Ricardo Fuller, Kevin McKenna, Phil Stamp and Paul Hartley in the early 2000s. No-one can say that the Grzelak's, Nowak's etc have been anywhere near the impact these players did. As I say.. bad scouting or lack of effort by Levein, anyone's choice.

 

 

That's allot of words not to make any point with.

[ford donald]

4 minutes ago, Coco said:

My guess is that Stockton was one from the Brentford sports betting company who had some stat that he hits the target with shots or something.  Another awful signing - but if he wasn't going to be replaced then he could at least have been an option to occupy the Motherwell defenders.

 

The hit rate on strikers under the current regime has been dreadful.

 Sammon is a better player than Stockton, and I don't rate Sammon.

[jambonian]

...and your post pretty pointless anyway BigDave'sHeed. But thanks for contributing.

Edited March 6, 2018 by jambonian

[ford donald]

32 minutes ago, jambonian said:

 

"The clear intention from the end of the championship season was to bring in players that could potentially be sold on at a profit"

 

So what about in the last, say year or so, signing the likes of Jones from Killie or Docherty from Hamilton wouldn't have been signing players potentially to make a profit in future? That one is down to bad scouting and possibly Levein not identifying potential, Rangers have now got Docherty and it won't be long before Jones' is out the door at Killie, making them a profit. I'm sure Hamilton will have been quite happy as well with the money they got from Rangers2012 fc. Also, most of the players that came through the youth set-up since 2014 haven't really made the grade, Paterson probably the exception, the odd other one here or there still has to prove himself so hopefully the next lot will be better and actually make the club money rather than seeing the Nicholson's of this world who leave for virtually nothing. Some profit!

We all agree that Cathro was an embarrassing episode in the clubs history and I've said before that we should've brought in an experienced manager when Neilson left, not an X-box Fifa player.

I know we've signed a few half decent players but we've also signed more that are/were a waste of money. Money which would've been better spent on players from within our own Leagues or even down south. For what it's worth, we've wasted more money forking out on Grzelak's, Rherras's, Sowah's, Tzolis's and plenty others than we have at making any profit.  As for Cathro signing players last January...yes he did, but Levein had the final say, and what we got was not that great. He should've known better by his experience than Cathro could. It was Levein after-all that signed the likes of Mark de Vries, Ricardo Fuller, Kevin McKenna, Phil Stamp and Paul Hartley in the early 2000s. No-one can say that the Grzelak's, Nowak's etc have been anywhere near the impact these players did. As I say.. bad scouting or lack of effort by Levein, anyone's choice.

[Rudy T]

36 minutes ago, jambonian said:

 

"The clear intention from the end of the championship season was to bring in players that could potentially be sold on at a profit"

 

So what about in the last, say year or so, signing the likes of Jones from Killie or Docherty from Hamilton wouldn't have been signing players potentially to make a profit in future? That one is down to bad scouting and possibly Levein not identifying potential, Rangers have now got Docherty and it won't be long before Jones' is out the door at Killie, making them a profit. I'm sure Hamilton will have been quite happy as well with the money they got from Rangers2012 fc. Also, most of the players that came through the youth set-up since 2014 haven't really made the grade, Paterson probably the exception, the odd other one here or there still has to prove himself so hopefully the next lot will be better and actually make the club money rather than seeing the Nicholson's of this world who leave for virtually nothing. Some profit!

We all agree that Cathro was an embarrassing episode in the clubs history and I've said before that we should've brought in an experienced manager when Neilson left, not an X-box Fifa player.

I know we've signed a few half decent players but we've also signed more that are/were a waste of money. Money which would've been better spent on players from within our own Leagues or even down south. For what it's worth, we've wasted more money forking out on Grzelak's, Rherras's, Sowah's, Tzolis's and plenty others than we have at making any profit.  As for Cathro signing players last January...yes he did, but Levein had the final say, and what we got was not that great. He should've known better by his experience than Cathro could. It was Levein after-all that signed the likes of Mark de Vries, Ricardo Fuller, Kevin McKenna, Phil Stamp and Paul Hartley in the early 2000s. No-one can say that the Grzelak's, Nowak's etc have been anywhere near the impact these players did. As I say.. bad scouting or lack of effort by Levein, anyone's choice.

 

"it was Levein after-all that signed the likes of Mark de Vries, Ricardo Fuller, Kevin McKenna, Phil Stamp and Paul Hartley in the early 2000s. No-one can say that the Grzelak's, Nowak's etc have been anywhere near the impact these players did. As I say.. bad scouting or lack of effort by Levein, anyone's choice."

 

So in one sentence you've managed to destroy your entire argument. He signed these players as manager he is now the manager, his team his players, he has a summer window coming up where he will do just what he did previously! 

 

He was the DoF his remit stretched way beyond the first team, we have changed the scouting and recruitment policy yet you see the need to bring up the past  in an attempt to discredit Levien, there can be no other possible reason for it.  

[Rudy T]

1 hour ago, DavieG said:

So if Levein is that good how do you explain the antiquated hoofball tactics his team displayed for most of the game on Sunday. 

 

Where in that post did I comment on his ability a s a manger............or did you just think it was a wee bit too positive and decided to throw in a line containing the very HIbs like hoofball cliche....

 

Its amazing after a Televised game how many experts turn up on this forum.

[Shank said no]

24 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

Where in that post did I comment on his ability a s a manger............or did you just think it was a wee bit too positive and decided to throw in a line containing the very HIbs like hoofball cliche....

 

Its amazing after a Televised game how many experts turn up on this forum.

Not being funny but you don't need to be any football expert to know that 1st half performance on sunday was any way acceptable and to think the backing that was there it begs the question are the fans getting value for there money giving they have backed the club to the hilt and still are . 

[Rudy T]

2 minutes ago, Shank said no said:

Not being funny but you don't need to be any football expert to know that 1st half performance on sunday was any way acceptable and to think the backing that was there it begs the question are the fans getting value for there money giving they have backed the club to the hilt and still are . 

 

Here we go the old fans back the club chestnut so we should be Barcelona!  We all know it wasn't, clearly he also knew hence the changes in the second half and much improved performance....surely that suggests he's not a complete diddy.

[jambonian]

15 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

"it was Levein after-all that signed the likes of Mark de Vries, Ricardo Fuller, Kevin McKenna, Phil Stamp and Paul Hartley in the early 2000s. No-one can say that the Grzelak's, Nowak's etc have been anywhere near the impact these players did. As I say.. bad scouting or lack of effort by Levein, anyone's choice."

 

So in one sentence you've managed to destroy your entire argument. He signed these players as manager he is now the manager, his team his players, he has a summer window coming up where he will do just what he did previously! 

 

He was the DoF his remit stretched way beyond the first team, we have changed the scouting and recruitment policy yet you see the need to bring up the past  in an attempt to discredit Levien, there can be no other possible reason for it.  

 

I speak as i find, it's called observation. If you want to turn it into an anti-Levein agenda then that's your own choice, bash on. You're the one that keeps bringing up this "discredit Levein" pash.  It's entertaining if nothing else. 

Most people, Hearts fans or fans of other clubs that I speak to seem to see and say similar things about what's going on at our club yet they can't have an anti-Levein agenda can they so why should I?  Because i am a fan of the club I should not have an opinion on what I see, but as non-Hearts fans, they can?

As a Hearts fan, i only want the best for the club, and in my time (35 years of supporting the club) we've always played an attacking style of play, and when we haven't, managers tend to get changed. That's any manager, not just Levein. It's the way we play, it brings fans in and adds excitement to games. The negative style we play right now can and will over time bore enough people away that they won't re-new season tickets or won't walk up to a cash-gate on match day. And that's something me, you and everybody else should be worrying about. How long before Hibs have bigger home crowds? They've been signing attacking players this last couple of years and we have paid the price of that regarding results against them too often. Something needs to change somewhere, whether Levein's there or not.

As I said somewhere previously...a director of football or manager, it's irrelevant. If he's the manager, he will identify players, if he's DoF he has to sanction the signings anyway, it's all pretty much the same. He can say no to a signing either way.

Let's just see who we sign in the summer. (attacking midfielders please!)

[Shank said no]

4 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

Here we go the old fans back the club chestnut so we should be Barcelona!  We all know it wasn't, clearly he also knew hence the changes in the second half and much improved performance....surely that suggests he's not a complete diddy.

There is nobody saying he is a diddy so there was no need to go directly on to the defensive chat however you can try that all you want but what you want do is take away the facts that it was unacceptable and a lot of performances have been anything but acceptable . My god there has been times he has virtually left himself without a leg to stand on and sundays 1st half is another one . But But lets just kid on it did not happen tho or paper over the cracks with how marvelous we have been playing .  Not nice to say it and i will back the club to the hilt but at what point do you seriously question if this masterplan is actually working as i like many many others are starting to have serious doubts What have you seen so far this season that would lead you to think we could be a major force again because that is supposedly what we are striving to do is it not .  

[Jamhammer]

22 hours ago, Lambo85 said:

If we don’t make the top 6 then serious questions need to be asked about Craig Levein’s future at Hearts. Not making the top 6 for a club like Hearts is totally embarrassing. A top 6 finish is the bare minimum I would expect from our club. 

The other thing is that it not making the top 6 would turn our defensive record into a farce and it would all be for nothing. To win games you have to score goals regardless of how well you are defending. Something that Levein has failed to learn throughout most of his managerial career.

I seem to remember us scoring quite freely when he was in charge last time.

That might be the passage of time but we certainly leathered Hibs and they weren’t the only ones. He brought in decent players and blooded some good youngsters. We weren’t Barcelona but we weren’t dull to watch IIRC

[jambonian]

3 minutes ago, Jamhammer said:

I seem to remember us scoring quite freely when he was in charge last time.

That might be the passage of time but we certainly leathered Hibs and they weren’t the only ones. He brought in decent players and blooded some good youngsters. We weren’t Barcelona but we weren’t dull to watch IIRC

EEK!! Don't mention the past or Rudi T will be on your back!

[Bazzas right boot]

No point in huffing and puffing.

 

Cl will get the summer.

 

This season has been a dissapiontment, however we'll have game's v hibs, rangers, Celtic and Aberdeen to look forward too, hardly season over.

 

We must get our house in order and get a more balanced, better and more deeper squad and we need to improve from the off in the league cup.

No time, money or excuses for a shitty start next season.

Craig's head is on the block.

 

I think we will, and look forward to  next season and to a lesser extent the top six games this season.

 

Craig will start next season, posters would be better focusing their anger and frustration elsewhere, calling for his head is a waste of effort.

[Bazzas right boot]

10 minutes ago, Jamhammer said:

I seem to remember us scoring quite freely when he was in charge last time.

That might be the passage of time but we certainly leathered Hibs and they weren’t the only ones. He brought in decent players and blooded some good youngsters. We weren’t Barcelona but we weren’t dull to watch IIRC

 

 

We were consistent and good at home, away form and cup games needed o be improved on.

 

 

[Rudy T]

13 minutes ago, jambonian said:

 

I speak as i find, it's called observation. If you want to turn it into an anti-Levein agenda then that's your own choice, bash on. You're the one that keeps bringing up this "discredit Levein" pash.  It's entertaining if nothing else. 

Most people, Hearts fans or fans of other clubs that I speak to seem to see and say similar things about what's going on at our club yet they can't have an anti-Levein agenda can they so why should I?  Because i am a fan of the club I should not have an opinion on what I see, but as non-Hearts fans, they can?

As a Hearts fan, i only want the best for the club, and in my time (35 years of supporting the club) we've always played an attacking style of play, and when we haven't, managers tend to get changed. That's any manager, not just Levein. It's the way we play, it brings fans in and adds excitement to games. The negative style we play right now can and will over time bore enough people away that they won't re-new season tickets or won't walk up to a cash-gate on match day. And that's something me, you and everybody else should be worrying about. How long before Hibs have bigger home crowds? They've been signing attacking players this last couple of years and we have paid the price of that regarding results against them too often. Something needs to change somewhere, whether Levein's there or not.

As I said somewhere previously...a director of football or manager, it's irrelevant. If he's the manager, he will identify players, if he's DoF he has to sanction the signings anyway, it's all pretty much the same. He can say no to a signing either way.

Let's just see who we sign in the summer. (attacking midfielders please!)

 

Ok so there's a number of points in there.

 

Firstly your telling me fans of other clubs think we should sign attacking midfielders...really? Next.. Tell me the last manager that played a free flowing attacking style.....that had the fans on the edge of their seats, I'll answer that for you Burley for ten games. Since then our record is patchy in that department and our away form has been dreadful for far too long and ultimately cost us over the years.

 

This fans will stay away mantra was trotted out around this time last year and it simply didn't happen, nor will Hibs have bigger gates than us, when did that last happen, they got a huge lift winning the cup and getting promoted, don't kid yourself on that the hibs fans think everything is rosey in their garden, they will lose ST's at a more rapid rate than we will.

 

We've lost to Hibs 3 times and they've yet to beat us at Tynecastle on this incredible run they are on, its utter bollox the game v Cathro at easter road was the only time they absolutely outplayed us in that great big amazing run. 

 

Of course its relevant, its actually fundamental...he picks the players for his team, Berra Naismith and Laffery....surely a continuation of this signing policy to replace the short term loans and supplement with youth will see us in a far stronger position...? 

[Rudy T]

9 minutes ago, jambonian said:

EEK!! Don't mention the past or Rudi T will be on your back!

 

Dont be a dick, that sentence backs up my points and makes a mockery of yours... Levien had us scoring goals and 3rd in a highly competitive league, yet your writing him off already based on his time as DoF.

[Enzo Chiefo]

3 hours ago, Rudy T said:

wow another Levien thread...just what we need.

 

we've signed two left backs both attack minded and both injured. Djoum our international attacking midfielder is injured, That Naismith laddie  far too defensive for me, Milinkovic, Amankwaa too defensive, Lafferty what a centre half he is, Cochrane and MacDonald promoted from the youth teams.....but your right I really wish he'd go out and spunk loads more money on attack minded players.

 

Djoum , with the exception of one or two games, has been hopeless for 2 years.  He has been a part of every poor away performance over the last while. As soon as he was injured, his loss suddenly became the excuse for poor creativity and lack of attacking options. Milinkovic and Amankwaa were attacking down the touchline on Sunday but, unfortunately, it was on the wrong side of the white line in the first 45. Amankwaa isn't even fit ffs.  Naismith has some great touches but plays far too deep to provide a real threat. I sometimes think Lionel Messi would be incorporated into our side as a defensive mid. 

[jambonian]

"Firstly your (it's you're or you are by the way) telling me fans of other clubs think we should sign attacking midfielders?"

 

 

What i'm saying is when discussing football with other clubs fans' (if watching games in pubs or if they've seen highlights, neighbours, at work etc.) they've said stuff like "our midfield is weak", "your lot are getting outplayed in midfield", "your midfield is being over-run", stuff like that. Of course they're not saying "You need to sign attacking midfielders"! What a daft thing to say! They are quite happy for us to be losing or struggling in games, they don't support us! But they are observant enough to even notice it in the first place.

Finally, on the signing policy stuff, signing players on loan is fine, sometimes. But at what cost? To bring in more loanees the next season, and the one after that? You still never really answered on whether you thought that had we been looking at signing the likes of Docherty from Hamilton or Jones at Killie, it would've been a shrewd move for a sell-on profit in the future. Rangers have with Docherty, let's see where Jones ends up and how much they get for him. You can't just rely on the hope we bring enough players through the ranks constantly to make profit, it doesn't happen all that often. Brad Mackay, Billy King, Kevin McHattie, Liam Smith, Jordan McGhee, (these two might still be there but won't make us millions) Sam Nicholson, Gary Oliver to name just a few. With the exception of Paterson, like I said, it doesn't happen all that often. Also get the feeling Hamilton will eventually leave and go down the Leagues but time will tell. Walker hardly made us millions either. So, sometimes it's worth looking at potential at other clubs to try to generate profit. Blinkers off...we can't do it all ourselves.