Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[ri Alban]

4 hours ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

Before I start yes brexit is a disgrace, I voted against it. 

 

We have many a vocal poster on the issue, what are any of u doing about it? Are you forming action groups, protesting? Becoming involved in local politics with a view to making your concerns heard? 

 

Or just posting on here. 

 

For clarity, I am not involved in any of the things I listed above either. 

Voting yes in Indy ref2. That'll be enough reverse Brexit. You? 

 

 

 

Brexit doesn't exist when Scotland becomes independent, as the B won't exist, technically.

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, pablo said:

We could have had May's softest of Brexit's too. That was another mistake. 

Why should the SNP have voted for May's soft Brexit, when they and Scotland were against it.

Edited December 31, 2022 by ri Alban

[pablo]

25 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Why should the SNP have voted for May's soft Brexit, when they and Scotland were against it.

 

No reason why they should have at all. What's bad for Britain is generally good for those who want to break it up, either in Scotland or Ireland. All I was saying was that May had put together a version of Brexit, that wouldn't have so severe. The SNP were quite within their rights to take any political opportunity presented to them.

[periodictabledancer]

Looks like brexiters have given up trying to persuade the population of its benefits and will "cull" their "swivel eyed friends"  instead.

Folk actually get paid to write this guff.

 

What’s your New Year’s resolution? Eat less, move more? Or perhaps you’re a contrary cuss aiming to eat more and move less? Ever perverse, I plan a little exercise which will leave me both more streamlined yet more replete; by culling what I can only call ‘swivel-eyed Remainers’ from my friendship group, both online and IRL.

[Mikey1874]

On 28/12/2022 at 17:24, WorldChampions1902 said:

My Brexit Calendar is for the year 2072. I.e. 50 years from now, which is what the Haunted Pencil predicted will be the year when we START to see SOME Brexit benefits.
 

I won’t live to see my unicorn peacefully grazing on the sunlit uplands, sadly.

 

 

[periodictabledancer]

13 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

Looking at the last couple of sentences from the headline article , it's weird to see the very things ( isolation, loss of influence ) that took the UK into the EU in the first place became some of the  main drivers  brexiters used to take the UK out. 

[Mikey1874]

40 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

Looking at the last couple of sentences from the headline article , it's weird to see the very things ( isolation, loss of influence ) that took the UK into the EU in the first place became some of the  main drivers  brexiters used to take the UK out. 

 

It does mention the thing that got forgotten that the EU was a strategic partnership to strength peace and security. Although more recently they were moaning about security cooperation with things like EU army. 

 

EU was always about improving economy which it did. 

[Thunder and Lightning]

20 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Voting yes in Indy ref2. That'll be enough reverse Brexit. You? 

 

 

 

Brexit doesn't exist when Scotland becomes independent, as the B won't exist, technically.

It won't tho will it. Cam you show me where we will automatically join again without years of waiting? 

 

Also you seem to think it cures all. Covid bad? Not if independent

Flu season? Not in an independent utopia. 

Inflation? No way, we will all be super wealthy using gas and electricity without a thought for the cost. 😂 

[Unknown user]

29 minutes ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

Also you seem to think it cures all. Covid bad? Not if independent

Flu season? Not in an independent utopia. 

Inflation? No way, we will all be super wealthy using gas and electricity without a thought for the cost. 😂 

 

Of course, running Scotland can't be done better than by a right wing government dominated by self interest, corruption and lies, based in another country and run by another country's representatives and agenda.

 

Man up union simps

[Thunder and Lightning]

13 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Of course, running Scotland can't be done better than by a right wing government dominated by self interest, corruption and lies, based in another country and run by another country's representatives and agenda.

 

Man up union simps

Where did I say it couldn't? 

 

When will they prove it can? 

[Unknown user]

17 minutes ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

Where did I say it couldn't? 

 

When will they prove it can? 

 

Ah, but where did I say you said it couldn't?

 

It's a counter point, and a bloody strong one too unless you're blinded by union simping! 

 

We'll prove it post independence, obvs, kind of hard to do before.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Smithee

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

[Ked]

2 hours ago, periodictabledancer said:

Looks like brexiters have given up trying to persuade the population of its benefits and will "cull" their "swivel eyed friends"  instead.

Folk actually get paid to write this guff.

 

What’s your New Year’s resolution? Eat less, move more? Or perhaps you’re a contrary cuss aiming to eat more and move less? Ever perverse, I plan a little exercise which will leave me both more streamlined yet more replete; by culling what I can only call ‘swivel-eyed Remainers’ from my friendship group, both online and IRL.

Who wrote it?

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, Ked said:

Who wrote it?

Hmm, it's right wing bollocks, but conversational. I'm going with a shit spread celebrity column in a right wing tabloid rag.

The contrary cuss bit makes me think maybe a bit more upmarket though, maybe right wing political magazine shite.

 

The short answer though, a .

[Ulysses]

Anyway, today is the 50th anniversary of Ireland's accession to the EEC.  Ireland, a tiny little place on the fringes of Europe, small population, isolated, and surely easy prey for the colonialist mindset of that lot in Brussels, Berlin and Paris.  Also Ireland, one of the highest rates of human development in the world, one of the highest life expectancy levels in the world, and among the highest educational attainment levels in Europe.  Also Ireland, whose citizens now head up the EU Ombudsman's office, the European Medicines Agency, the EU Court of Auditors, and the European Court of Human Rights, the team responsible for implementing and enforcing sanctions against Russia, as well as the office of chief economist of the European Central Bank.  Also Ireland, the only country with two ministers on the Eurogroup (the group of Finance ministers of the Eurozone) - one of whom has just been appointed its President for a second term.  The same country whose government is the "go-to" whenever Brussels, Berlin or Paris need deeper insights into the thinking of the political and media systems in the UK or the United States.  And also Ireland, the same country who managed to persuade an entire continent to stand behind it rather than the UK in the Brexit negotiations (see, there's always a connection to the theme of the thread).  And Ireland, a tiny country who managed to do so much of this despite losing the support and partnership of its next-door neighbour, and the country closest to us in cultural terms.  Of course the reality is that although much of this came to fruition since 2016, the political, administrative and diplomatic groundwork has been under way for decades.

 

Pooled sovereignty in Europe is not a straightforward gig, it may not be for everyone, and we do have to work very hard at it.  But it is worth it for us.  

[il Duce McTarkin]

30 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

Anyway, today is the 50th anniversary of Ireland's accession to the EEC.  Ireland, a tiny little place on the fringes of Europe, small population, isolated, and surely easy prey for the colonialist mindset of that lot in Brussels, Berlin and Paris.  Also Ireland, one of the highest rates of human development in the world, one of the highest life expectancy levels in the world, and among the highest educational attainment levels in Europe.  Also Ireland, whose citizens now head up the EU Ombudsman's office, the European Medicines Agency, the EU Court of Auditors, and the European Court of Human Rights, the team responsible for implementing and enforcing sanctions against Russia, as well as the office of chief economist of the European Central Bank.  Also Ireland, the only country with two ministers on the Eurogroup (the group of Finance ministers of the Eurozone) - one of whom has just been appointed its President for a second term.  The same country whose government is the "go-to" whenever Brussels, Berlin or Paris need deeper insights into the thinking of the political and media systems in the UK or the United States.  And also Ireland, the same country who managed to persuade an entire continent to stand behind it rather than the UK in the Brexit negotiations (see, there's always a connection to the theme of the thread).  And Ireland, a tiny country who managed to do so much of this despite losing the support and partnership of its next-door neighbour, and the country closest to us in cultural terms.  Of course the reality is that although much of this came to fruition since 2016, the political, administrative and diplomatic groundwork has been under way for decades.

 

Pooled sovereignty in Europe is not a straightforward gig, it may not be for everyone, and we do have to work very hard at it.  But it is worth it for us.  

 

Surely this can't be true?

But what about all of those Scotsman, Englishman, Irishman jokes that we grew up with?

Is everything we were told a lie?

Why?

WHY?

One can only conclude that there is no spoon.

[Thunder and Lightning]

4 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

Ah, but where did I say you said it couldn't?

 

It's a counter point, and a bloody strong one too unless you're blinded by union simping! 

 

We'll prove it post independence, obvs, kind of hard to do before.

Can you discuss things like an adult. Simps, grow up. 

 

They can prove things now. They are far from powerless. 

 

Perhaps formulating an actual plan would help, not just white paper dreams. 

[Unknown user]

34 minutes ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

Can you discuss things like an adult. Simps, grow up. 

 

They can prove things now. They are far from powerless. 

 

Perhaps formulating an actual plan would help, not just white paper dreams. 

 

"Covid bad? Not if independent.

Flu season? Not in an independent utopia. 

Inflation? No way, we will all be super wealthy using gas and electricity without a thought for the cost."

 

You come out with this childish shite, then demand people grow up? Great patter 👍 

 

Scotland proves Scotland can run itself after independence.

[Unknown user]

Of course, only Scotland has to prove it's big boy pants

[Thunder and Lightning]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

"Covid bad? Not if independent.

Flu season? Not in an independent utopia. 

Inflation? No way, we will all be super wealthy using gas and electricity without a thought for the cost."

 

You come out with this childish shite, then demand people grow up? Great patter 👍 

 

Scotland proves Scotland can run itself after independence.

I'll take that as a no then. 

[Ked]

1 hour ago, Ulysses said:

Anyway, today is the 50th anniversary of Ireland's accession to the EEC.  Ireland, a tiny little place on the fringes of Europe, small population, isolated, and surely easy prey for the colonialist mindset of that lot in Brussels, Berlin and Paris.  Also Ireland, one of the highest rates of human development in the world, one of the highest life expectancy levels in the world, and among the highest educational attainment levels in Europe.  Also Ireland, whose citizens now head up the EU Ombudsman's office, the European Medicines Agency, the EU Court of Auditors, and the European Court of Human Rights, the team responsible for implementing and enforcing sanctions against Russia, as well as the office of chief economist of the European Central Bank.  Also Ireland, the only country with two ministers on the Eurogroup (the group of Finance ministers of the Eurozone) - one of whom has just been appointed its President for a second term.  The same country whose government is the "go-to" whenever Brussels, Berlin or Paris need deeper insights into the thinking of the political and media systems in the UK or the United States.  And also Ireland, the same country who managed to persuade an entire continent to stand behind it rather than the UK in the Brexit negotiations (see, there's always a connection to the theme of the thread).  And Ireland, a tiny country who managed to do so much of this despite losing the support and partnership of its next-door neighbour, and the country closest to us in cultural terms.  Of course the reality is that although much of this came to fruition since 2016, the political, administrative and diplomatic groundwork has been under way for decades.

 

Pooled sovereignty in Europe is not a straightforward gig, it may not be for everyone, and we do have to work very hard at it.  But it is worth it for us.  

Why did Ireland almost do its own brexit?

Not an argument against what you say but I think I'm right in saying you had a re vote on the original outcome.

I just wonder what the arguments were for the Irish.

No doubt the figures for the health education etc are impressive.

In comparison to Scotland.

I've always assumed Ireland was conservative (not tory)in its outlook.

Were they the drivers of pulling out the EU?

[Ked]

6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Of course, only Scotland has to prove it's big boy pants

To be fair mate the SG have had plenty time to give at least a decent outline on its mechanisms for the change that would come.

There's at least 50% needing convinced.

We won't achieve independence unless there's some meat on the bones.

 

[Ked]

46 minutes ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

Can you discuss things like an adult. Simps, grow up. 

 

They can prove things now. They are far from powerless. 

 

Perhaps formulating an actual plan would help, not just white paper dreams. 

Are you dead set against independence or are you near to it in any way?

 

 

[Thunder and Lightning]

1 minute ago, Ked said:

Are you dead set against independence or are you near to it in any way?

 

 

I was against it, I voted no. 

 

I'm much more of an unsure now. 

 

I dislike a number of things currently happening in Scotland and have no time for the snp leadership. 

 

I get the UK is a shit show. Hugely. But I'm not content to jump from one fire to another simply because somone Scottish sets the new fire. 

 

I want information, which some of I understand cannot be given with an certainty. I won't vote yes without a plan tho. 

[pablo]

 

Are dafties still pretending Scottish Independence is just around the corner, and we'll not tell you how it'll work until we have it? Absolute topper.

 

Anyway, I see that there was a poll result published in the The Independent newspaper showing that nearly two thirds of Britons now back a new referendum on rejoining the EU. 

[Unknown user]

55 minutes ago, Ked said:

To be fair mate the SG have had plenty time to give at least a decent outline on its mechanisms for the change that would come.

There's at least 50% needing convinced.

We won't achieve independence unless there's some meat on the bones.

 

 

The guy asked when Scotland will prove it can run itself.

 

Every arsehole nation in the world can do it, but Scotland has to prove it before we get the keys?

 

[Unknown user]

45 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Are dafties still pretending Scottish Independence is just around the corner, and we'll not tell you how it'll work until we have it? Absolute topper.

 

Anyway, I see that there was a poll result published in the The Independent newspaper showing that nearly two thirds of Britons now back a new referendum on rejoining the EU. 

 

Are condescending welts still acting like they're above it, yet popping in for a wee sneer anyway? Smashing!

 

When will Scotland prove it can run itself?? Bloody disgrace, etc.

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, pablo said:

 

Anyway, I see that there was a poll result published in the The Independent newspaper showing that nearly two thirds of Britons now back a new referendum on rejoining the EU. 

Something that is lost on the current PM who wrote papers on Brexit whilst at school and Keith, who is shit scared of his own shadow. 

 

 

[pablo]

42 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Are condescending welts still acting like they're above it, yet popping in for a wee sneer anyway? Smashing!

 

When will Scotland prove it can run itself?? Bloody disgrace, etc.

 

Just around the corner mate, just you wait and see.......

 

Anyway Brexit.

[ri Alban]

When will The UK prove it can run itself and how it will survive when Scotland leaves and rejoins the EU, putting it surrounded in all fronts. Then the EU army can't wipe it out .

[Unknown user]

9 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Just around the corner mate, just you wait and see.......

 

Anyway Brexit.

 

Sound, I have the rest of my life to moan about it, strap in 👍

[Unknown user]

10 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

When will The UK prove it can run itself and how it will survive when Scotland leaves and rejoins the EU, putting it surrounded in all fronts. Then the EU army can't wipe it out .

 

Fair point

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, Ked said:

Why did Ireland almost do its own brexit?

 

 

When?

 

Bear in mind that I have lived here all my life and I kinda understand the place, while you don't live here and have no idea about the place.  What that means is that the above question is a ****ing trap.  I'm saying this to be helpful.

 

So, when?

[pablo]

31 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

When?

 

Bear in mind that I have lived here all my life and I kinda understand the place, while you don't live here and have no idea about the place.  What that means is that the above question is a ****ing trap.  I'm saying this to be helpful.

 

So, when?

 

He's probably getting mixed up with the first Treaty of Lisbon referendum result, and your EU paymasters telling you to go away and come back with the correct answer the next time.

[Ked]

1 hour ago, Ulysses said:

 

When?

 

Bear in mind that I have lived here all my life and I kinda understand the place, while you don't live here and have no idea about the place.  What that means is that the above question is a ****ing trap.  I'm saying this to be helpful.

 

So, when?

 

39 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

He's probably getting mixed up with the first Treaty of Lisbon referendum result, and your EU paymasters telling you to go away and come back with the correct answer the next time.

 

I'm getting mixed up .

No it's not a trap.

And yes I'm aware you're Irish.I don't generally try to point score at least I don't think I do.

It was a genuine question although it was worded wrongly.

Ach well.

[Ulysses]

33 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

He's probably getting mixed up with the first Treaty of Lisbon referendum result, and your EU paymasters telling you to go away and come back with the correct answer the next time.

 

But that never happened. I get that a lot of you suffer from the "fog in channel" mentality, but surely some of you have the wit and wisdom to understand how pooled sovereignty works?

 

Our constitutional system requires us to have a referendum whenever something is proposed that will alter the balance of sovereignty and government powers, including those elements which we share with the other EU member states.  We had a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.  In fairness to our politicians they thought they'd got the best deal they could, but when it was put to a vote it was defeated.  Following that, Ireland went back and negotiated commitments from Brussels in relation to the composition of the European Commission, taxation, military activity, and the rights of member states to legislate in relation to abortion).  That's how pooled sovereignty works.  The people didn't like what was on offer.  The people rejected it (though I admit I voted for it first time round).  The government was sent back in to secure a better deal, and they did.  What's not to like?  

[Ulysses]

1 minute ago, Ked said:

 

 

I'm getting mixed up .

No it's not a trap.

And yes I'm aware you're Irish.I don't generally try to point score at least I don't think I do.

It was a genuine question although it was worded wrongly.

Ach well.

 

If you have a genuine question then ask a genuine question.  It gets a bit dull repeatedly reading, never mind answering, questions posed by "fog in channel" merchants and malignant anti-European right wingers who don't know what the European Union is nor how it works, and who couldn't find my country on a map to save their lives.  But there you go. 

 

Ireland is a committed member of the European Union - and it's as much ours as it is France's or Germany's.  We roll with it when it's working, and we get stroppy when it's not.  See my response to pablo's truly appalling post above.  When we dig in, we generally get something back.  That's not a sign of something that's failed - it's the very exact feckin' opposite.  So while we may get stroppy from time to time we aren't going anywhere.

 

If we can do all that, if the likes of Estonia or Malta, Denmark or Finland can do all that, then there is no doubt in the wide earthly world that Scotland can do it as well.

 

In fact, if Scotland could do it, so could the United Kingdom.  In fact, the UK generally did for over 40 years, often with Ireland right beside it.  The UK used to almost entirely run the EU's institutions, but then decided to chicken out and **** off.  Why?  Because it fell for the lies, that's why.  Brussels never ruled the UK; if anything it was the other way round.

[Ulysses]

I nearly forgot this.  The eurozone got its 20th member this morning, and the Schengen area got its 27th.

 

Croatia joins the Euro and enters Schengen area (rte.ie)

 

 

[Ked]

1 hour ago, Ulysses said:

 

If you have a genuine question then ask a genuine question.  It gets a bit dull repeatedly reading, never mind answering, questions posed by "fog in channel" merchants and malignant anti-European right wingers who don't know what the European Union is nor how it works, and who couldn't find my country on a map to save their lives.  But there you go. 

 

Ireland is a committed member of the European Union - and it's as much ours as it is France's or Germany's.  We roll with it when it's working, and we get stroppy when it's not.  See my response to pablo's truly appalling post above.  When we dig in, we generally get something back.  That's not a sign of something that's failed - it's the very exact feckin' opposite.  So while we may get stroppy from time to time we aren't going anywhere.

 

If we can do all that, if the likes of Estonia or Malta, Denmark or Finland can do all that, then there is no doubt in the wide earthly world that Scotland can do it as well.

 

In fact, if Scotland could do it, so could the United Kingdom.  In fact, the UK generally did for over 40 years, often with Ireland right beside it.  The UK used to almost entirely run the EU's institutions, but then decided to chicken out and **** off.  Why?  Because it fell for the lies, that's why.  Brussels never ruled the UK; if anything it was the other way round.

It was genuine.

I asked what or who drove the no vote for the treaty.

I mistakenly described it as a brexit.

Your Irish so I thought I'd ask.

I know where Ireland is.

Geography I'm not too bad at.

And I will leave it there.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Ked

[Cade]

Every single nation that has joined the EU has had an economic boom.

All of them.

The rising tide lifts all ships.

 

Even the UK (the "sick man of Europe" in the 1970s) had an economic boom after it joined.

 

 

 

And as to the Treaty of Lisbon bullshit.....

The brexit fanatics like to ignore the fact that as a full member state of the EU, Ireland vetoed it as it did not like the terms.

The terms were re-written to Ireland's liking then the treaty was retified.

It was not a case of "vote again until you like it".

Ireland used it's power as a full member state to get what it wanted.

 

 

[pablo]

19 minutes ago, Cade said:

Every single nation that has joined the EU has had an economic boom.

All of them.

The rising tide lifts all ships.

 

Even the UK (the "sick man of Europe" in the 1970s) had an economic boom after it joined.

 

 

 

And as to the Treaty of Lisbon bullshit.....

The brexit fanatics like to ignore the fact that as a full member state of the EU, Ireland vetoed it as it did not like the terms.

The terms were re-written to Ireland's liking then the treaty was retified.

It was not a case of "vote again until you like it".

Ireland used it's power as a full member state to get what it wanted.

 

 

 

That's not exactly right. When a smaller EU state, such as Ireland (twice) or Denmark fails to ratify a treaty, the EU will pressure the member to have a second vote after giving legal assurances that the concerns raised by the "No" side will not come to pass. So in Ireland's case it was the loss of their military neutrality and changes to their then abortion laws amongst other things, and Denmark's was about currency. But the same question is asked.

 

When the population or parliament of a large EU member fails to ratify a treaty such as with France and the European constitution, the treaty is abandoned and replaced with an alternative, in this case The Lisbon Treaty. France wouldn't be pressurised into answering the same question twice.

[Ulysses]

37 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

That's not exactly right. When a smaller EU state, such as Ireland (twice) or Denmark fails to ratify a treaty, the EU will pressure the member to have a second vote after giving legal assurances that the concerns raised by the "No" side will not come to pass. So in Ireland's case it was the loss of their military neutrality and changes to their then abortion laws amongst other things, and Denmark's was about currency. But the same question is asked.

 

When the population or parliament of a large EU member fails to ratify a treaty such as with France and the European constitution, the treaty is abandoned and replaced with an alternative, in this case The Lisbon Treaty. France wouldn't be pressurised into answering the same question twice.

 

We didn't get the name of the Treaty changed?  Is that ****ing it?   

[Ulysses]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Every single nation that has joined the EU has had an economic boom.

All of them.

The rising tide lifts all ships.

 

Even the UK (the "sick man of Europe" in the 1970s) had an economic boom after it joined.

 

 

 

And as to the Treaty of Lisbon bullshit.....

The brexit fanatics like to ignore the fact that as a full member state of the EU, Ireland vetoed it as it did not like the terms.

The terms were re-written to Ireland's liking then the treaty was retified.

It was not a case of "vote again until you like it".

Ireland used it's power as a full member state to get what it wanted.

 

 

 

Cade, the problem with the Faragists is that what they believe in can only make sense if they pretend that something is true when it isn't - it's a bit like a religious cult, actually.

 

Anyone who wants one example - one killer example - of just how much influence a small country actually has on policy within the European Union, and sometimes outside it, should consider the example below. 

 

Two neighbouring countries have a dispute over whether or not there should be a hard border between them.  The neighbouring giant bloc of countries has to decide which side it's on.

 

The bloc has a long track record of friendly relations with both Country A and Country B - but it has much, much bigger markets in Country A.

 

Country A is a permanent member of the Security Council of the UN, one of the 6 or 7 biggest economies on Earth, and has a population of over 68 million.  Country B is a tiny military player, accounts for about 1% of Europe's economy, and has about 5 million people living in it.  Country B, by the way, is the only country in Europe with a lower population than it had at the outset of the Industrial Revolution (must be a real nothing place, that Country B).

 

Country A was responsible about 75 years earlier for liberating the western half of the neighbouring giant bloc from an oppressive regime of dictatorship and occupation.  And then later, about 30 years ago, Country A played a key role in the downfall of another oppressive regime of dictatorship, and that led to the liberation of the eastern half of the neighbouring giant bloc.  Country A didn't do this alone, but they really, really made a difference on both occasions, especially the first time when they had to send in their army to do it.  They got some help from Country X, a big big country across the ocean, of which more in a minute, but they still did this hugely important thing for the neighbouring giant bloc, not once but twice.  On both occasions, Country B remained neutral and didn't do much to help, perhaps understandable given how poor it was and how little it had by way of a military presence, but it still amounted to nothing (I told ya, Country B must be a real nothing place).

 

 

It's really obvious how that story has to go, isn't it?  Surely the neighbouring giant bloc must warmly embrace Country A and tell Country B to go away and cop itself on, and no doubt Country X across the ocean will also know which side it's on and maybe give Country B a wee clip round the lughole?  I mean, it's a no-brainer, right?  

 

 

[ri Alban]

4 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

Cade, the problem with the Faragists is that what they believe in can only make sense if they pretend that something is true when it isn't - it's a bit like a religious cult, actually.

 

Anyone who wants one example - one killer example - of just how much influence a small country actually has on policy within the European Union, and sometimes outside it, should consider the example below. 

 

Two neighbouring countries have a dispute over whether or not there should be a hard border between them.  The neighbouring giant bloc of countries has to decide which side it's on.

 

The bloc has a long track record of friendly relations with both Country A and Country B - but it has much, much bigger markets in Country A.

 

Country A is a permanent member of the Security Council of the UN, one of the 6 or 7 biggest economies on Earth, and has a population of over 68 million.  Country B is a tiny military player, accounts for about 1% of Europe's economy, and has about 5 million people living in it.  Country B, by the way, is the only country in Europe with a lower population than it had at the outset of the Industrial Revolution (must be a real nothing place, that Country B).

 

Country A was responsible about 75 years earlier for liberating the western half of the neighbouring giant bloc from an oppressive regime of dictatorship and occupation.  And then later, about 30 years ago, Country A played a key role in the downfall of another oppressive regime of dictatorship, and that led to the liberation of the eastern half of the neighbouring giant bloc.  Country A didn't do this alone, but they really, really made a difference on both occasions, especially the first time when they had to send in their army to do it.  They got some help from Country X, a big big country across the ocean, of which more in a minute, but they still did this hugely important thing for the neighbouring giant bloc, not once but twice.  On both occasions, Country B remained neutral and didn't do much to help, perhaps understandable given how poor it was and how little it had by way of a military presence, but it still amounted to nothing (I told ya, Country B must be a real nothing place).

 

 

It's really obvious how that story has to go, isn't it?  Surely the neighbouring giant bloc must warmly embrace Country A and tell Country B to go away and cop itself on, and no doubt Country X across the ocean will also know which side it's on and maybe give Country B a wee clip round the lughole?  I mean, it's a no-brainer, right?  

 

 

Stayed neutral

[RobboM]

16 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

Cade, the problem with the Faragists is that what they believe in can only make sense if they pretend that something is true when it isn't - it's a bit like a religious cult, actually.

 

Anyone who wants one example - one killer example - of just how much influence a small country actually has on policy within the European Union, and sometimes outside it, should consider the example below. 

 

Two neighbouring countries have a dispute over whether or not there should be a hard border between them.  The neighbouring giant bloc of countries has to decide which side it's on.

 

The bloc has a long track record of friendly relations with both Country A and Country B - but it has much, much bigger markets in Country A.

 

Country A is a permanent member of the Security Council of the UN, one of the 6 or 7 biggest economies on Earth, and has a population of over 68 million.  Country B is a tiny military player, accounts for about 1% of Europe's economy, and has about 5 million people living in it.  Country B, by the way, is the only country in Europe with a lower population than it had at the outset of the Industrial Revolution (must be a real nothing place, that Country B).

 

Country A was responsible about 75 years earlier for liberating the western half of the neighbouring giant bloc from an oppressive regime of dictatorship and occupation.  And then later, about 30 years ago, Country A played a key role in the downfall of another oppressive regime of dictatorship, and that led to the liberation of the eastern half of the neighbouring giant bloc.  Country A didn't do this alone, but they really, really made a difference on both occasions, especially the first time when they had to send in their army to do it.  They got some help from Country X, a big big country across the ocean, of which more in a minute, but they still did this hugely important thing for the neighbouring giant bloc, not once but twice.  On both occasions, Country B remained neutral and didn't do much to help, perhaps understandable given how poor it was and how little it had by way of a military presence, but it still amounted to nothing (I told ya, Country B must be a real nothing place).

 

 

It's really obvious how that story has to go, isn't it?  Surely the neighbouring giant bloc must warmly embrace Country A and tell Country B to go away and cop itself on, and no doubt Country X across the ocean will also know which side it's on and maybe give Country B a wee clip round the lughole?  I mean, it's a no-brainer, right?  

 

 

Yeah?
Well ......
Country A can have wee crowns on its pint glasses .....
and warning signs in tunnels in furlongs and yards! .......
and .... errmmm
How do you like them apples?

[WorldChampions1902]

Can’t imagine why.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/government-refuses-to-publish-economic-forecasts-for-latest-brexit-trade-deal-341118/

 

[Pans Jambo]

3 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Can’t imagine why.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/government-refuses-to-publish-economic-forecasts-for-latest-brexit-trade-deal-341118/

 

Lol

 

We have a deal with New Zealand!!!!! 

 

"The strategic case for trading with New Zealand was an upflift of “between 0.00 per cent and 0.01 per cent” in the long run under the best scenario".

[Ulysses]

We all make mistakes, according to the Taoiseach, Leo Varadkar.

 

'All sides made mistakes in handling Brexit' - Varadkar (rte.ie)

 

The last time I heard the mistakes narrative was in October, when it looked as though a deal on the Protocol might be on the cards.  Maybe it's on the cards again?

 

I wonder will they change its name?

[Jambo-Jimbo]

8 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

We all make mistakes, according to the Taoiseach, Leo Varadkar.

 

'All sides made mistakes in handling Brexit' - Varadkar (rte.ie)

 

The last time I heard the mistakes narrative was in October, when it looked as though a deal on the Protocol might be on the cards.  Maybe it's on the cards again?

 

I wonder will they change its name?

 

I was really quite surprised to hear Varadkar of all people, admit that the NI protocol was "too strict" and vowed to be "flexible and reasonable" in trying to find a solution to the protocol.

 

All very encouraging, that perhaps a solution can be found.

[Ulysses]

8 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I was really quite surprised to hear Varadkar of all people, admit that the NI protocol was "too strict" and vowed to be "flexible and reasonable" in trying to find a solution to the protocol.

 

All very encouraging, that perhaps a solution can be found.

 

Varadkar is the most pro-unionist and pro-British political party leader in this country - though he is also one of the most Europhile as well.  Irish and EU politicians have been talking about flexibility and reasonableness for months, but every time they stop talking to blink and take a sip of water, they look across the table to find that the British have changed their Prime Minister.  

 

The fact that the Irish and EU political systems are saying these things is not a sign that a solution can be found.  It's a sign that they already know that there's a "landing zone" for a solution and are now saying things to make that all seem more acceptable to everybody.  But we were at this point before in September and into October, and it didn't happen then.