Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[WorldChampions1902]

5 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

The numbers that were actually sent back under the scheme were negligible . IIRC, it was in the low 10s.

 

 

It was low but not that low. The figures declined year on year to a couple of hundred. In contrast to the much higher figures from comparable EU countries. The conclusion being that the U.K. failed to make the most of the Dublin Agreement. Of course, now we don’t even have that tool at our disposal, even though the EU magnanimously offered to allow the U.K. to retain access to the Dublin Agreement during Brexit negotiations.
 

Just like we refused to accept the EU offer to remain in the ERASMUS student exchange scheme, which offered our youngsters invaluable education opportunities. I think the term I searching for is, “cutting off your nose to spite your face”.

[Ulysses]

3 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Came across in dinghy’s, holed up in hotels all over the country, suella braverman getting called out that she caused things like this.
Not sure what I’m having to explain tbh. 

 

Ah.

 

In fairness your post was a cut and paste of a Twitter video with a one-line comment that didn't relate to Brexit.  Unless the reader makes assumptions about your view, it's not exactly clear what point you were making.

[Ulysses]

3 hours ago, Smithee said:

I was reading the other day that the UK has become much more attractive to migrants as we're no longer part of the EU's return scheme. It sounded less bottle banky though.

 

Hard to tell if that's true.  Ireland has also become more attractive to migrants even though we're still part of the Dublin Regulation, so it may simply be that more people are landing.  However, as @WorldChampions1902noted the EU is under no obligation to take anyone back from the UK, but continues to be under that obligation in Ireland's case.

 

In any case, the UK always had control over non-EU residents entering the UK, and leaving the EU didn't alter that.

[Ulysses]

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Ulysses said:

 

Hard to tell if that's true.  Ireland has also become more attractive to migrants even though we're still part of the Dublin Regulation, so it may simply be that more people are landing.  However, as @WorldChampions1902noted the EU is under no obligation to take anyone back from the UK, but continues to be under that obligation in Ireland's case.

 

In any case, the UK always had control over non-EU residents entering the UK, and leaving the EU didn't alter that.

And the UK also always had control over EU immigrants who weren't in jobs after 2 years, it's freedom of movement for workers. Not only did we not do anything with this control, as far as I'm aware we didn't even keep track of which EU citizens were in the country.

[Ulysses]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

And the UK also always had control over EU immigrants who weren't in jobs after 2 years, it's freedom of movement for workers. Not only did we not do anything with this control, as far as I'm aware we didn't even keep track of which EU citizens were in the country.

 

Indeed, and I suspect that the main reason was because the UK economy needed the workers to stay.

[pablo]

9 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Migrants in hotels? Surely a bit no?

 

There's migrants and refugees getting battered all over Dublin. There's also protests outside hotels.

 

So this can't be anything to do with Brexit. 

[ri Alban]

9 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

In what way? 

Taking back control of the borders and all that. 

[ri Alban]

9 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Migrants in hotels? Surely a bit no?

Don't bother your arse bud. We all know why. Except, you know.

[ri Alban]

14 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

There's migrants and refugees getting battered all over Dublin. There's also protests outside hotels.

 

So this can't be anything to do with Brexit. 

Sure it isn't. It's all the SNP's fault.

[manaliveits105]

3 hours ago, pablo said:

 

There's migrants and refugees getting battered all over Dublin. There's also protests outside hotels.

 

So this can't be anything to do with Brexit. 

[periodictabledancer]

10 hours ago, Smithee said:

And the UK also always had control over EU immigrants who weren't in jobs after 2 years, it's freedom of movement for workers. Not only did we not do anything with this control, as far as I'm aware we didn't even keep track of which EU citizens were in the country.

Any EU member state has the right to refuse entry to anyone from another EU country if it believes that person cannot support himself. Freedom of movement isn't sacrosanct.  The UK, for all it's whining , never did so even when the moaning reached fever pitch . Probably because it didn't suit the xenophobes case for Brexit. 

 

[periodictabledancer]

Interesting update on the current wrangling (or not) re the NIP.

Basically, it's all about the ERG rabble rousing the DUP, according to Maitliss, in order to undermine Sunak and get (Boris ) back into power. 

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by periodictabledancer

[Ulysses]

17 hours ago, pablo said:

 

There's migrants and refugees getting battered all over Dublin. There's also protests outside hotels.

 

So this can't be anything to do with Brexit. 

 

At the risk of pointing out the obvious to you, it's @jack D and cokewho seems to think that the Twitter video posted has some link to Brexit, whereas I don't.

 

[Ulysses]

9 hours ago, periodictabledancer said:

Interesting update on the current wrangling (or not) re the NIP.

Basically, it's all about the ERG rabble rousing the DUP, according to Maitliss, in order to undermine Sunak and get (Boris ) back into power. 

 

 

 

 

In any political negotiation it's always useful to have a group of nutters outside the room to help you persuade the people you're dealing with that you're the reasonable one and that you need their help to deal with the barbarians at the gate.

[WorldChampions1902]

Tonight’s news is explaining the rationing of fresh produce (including tomatoes), as being down to bad weather in Europe. Absolutely no mention of Brexit being a factor. 
The truth is, yet again, being suppressed by our ‘impartial’ media. Some facts on tomatoes for example.

Our shelves are bare. Supermarkets in Britain have resorted to rationing tomatoes because of huge shortages.

Asda has set a limit of three per person on tomatoes, peppers, cucumbers and other salad veg, while Morrisons has a maximum of two per person. Other supermarkets are set to follow suit and they say the shortages will last "weeks".

And the cause is... you guessed it, Brexit.

But as ever, this is disputed. The media have settled on "cold weather in Spain" as the reason for the problems. Oddly though there is no tomato shortage in... Spain.

They claim it is a Europe-wide shortage. But there is no tomato rationing in the EU.
 
We have issued an open challenge on social media for anyone to send us one single example of the rationing of fresh produce from anywhere in the EU, and no one has. Because it doesn't exist.

In fact, Twitter is full of photos from Spain, France, Italy, Greece and beyond showing supermarkets positively heaving with tomatoes. Our own supporters living in the EU have told us there are no shortages. European media are reporting on a UK tomato shortage, not a European one.

There is only one country with a problem, and once again it is the one that has cut itself off from the rest of Europe.
 

Yes, we have no tomatoes

Now, there is some truth in the point about the weather. Spanish tomato production is down. Moroccan tomato yields – which the UK hoped to rely on instead of EU crops – are down further.

So how is Brexit the cause?

Britain has long relied on imported EU fruit and veg during the winter. But since Brexit produce has been having a hard time making it from the EU without long delays and queues at ports, as shown by the noticeably shorter shelf lives lately.

Now, imagine you are a tomato grower with a shortfall. There is enough demand to sell your whole crop inside the EU single market, where you face no barriers between countries. Why would you bother to incur the expense and inconvenience of shipping it across the Brexit border?

One further relevant piece of evidence: the tomato problem is not affecting Northern Ireland!

Brexit has also increased Britain's reliance on non-EU imports, which in the case of tomatoes means Morocco. They have been worse hit than Spain, with floods and cancelled shipping.

Inside the EU, countries can rely on each other when problems like this hit, and rapidly shift around supply chains to keep the shelves well stocked. But outside the EU, we're on our own.
 

Just remember this

If you only remember one thing from this message, make it this:

There is tomato rationing in Brexit Britain. There is no tomato rationing in the EU.

Edited February 21, 2023 by WorldChampions1902

[periodictabledancer]

Twitter is a thing of beauty right now. 

Pics from everywhere and not a shortage in sight and Spanish residents saying "what shortage ? ".

 

Meanwhile UK can't get a break because our  farmers didn't plant anything because of high energy prices ( first I knew UK grows tomatoes in the winter) but anyway the NL farmers have also stopped growing stuff because of high energy prices  (allegedly)  - but strangely , there's no shortages in Europe. Just good old UK.

 

[postage-stamp]

Brexit...it was voted for so it must be done.

 

 

[Dazo]

Managed to get eggs when they were being rationed without issue, managed to pick up some tomatoes without issue. ****ing brexit. 😢

[RobboM]

Why don't we just have a referendum? For/Against Tomato Shortages should sort it 👍

 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

14 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Managed to get eggs when they were being rationed without issue, managed to pick up some tomatoes without issue. ****ing brexit. 😢

Where? None in Dalkeith.

[Dazo]

1 minute ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Where? None in Dalkeith.

They eat tomatoes in Dalkeith ? You nearly had me there. 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

4 minutes ago, Dazo said:

They eat tomatoes in Dalkeith ? You nearly had me there. 

Gas lighting it is, then.

[Dazo]

Just now, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Gas lighting it is, then.

😂 Dry your eye mate it’s a big world out there beyond Morrisons in Dalkeith. 

Get yourself to Tesco hermiston gait or if you’re really desperate you can have some of mine. 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

Just now, Dazo said:

😂 Dry your eye mate it’s a big world out there beyond Morrisons in Dalkeith. 

Get yourself to Tesco hermiston gait or if you’re really desperate you can have some of mine. 

Tesco, Morrisons, Aldi, Lidl and Sainsbury's. Nothing.

Keep up the gas lighting, Tory boy.

[The Mighty Thor]

Here's your regular reminder that we haven't even implemented Brexit properly yet.

 

[Japan Jambo]

12 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Tonight’s news is explaining the rationing of fresh produce (including tomatoes), as being down to bad weather in Europe. Absolutely no mention of Brexit being a factor. 
The truth is, yet again, being suppressed by our ‘impartial’ media. Some facts on tomatoes for example.

Our shelves are bare. Supermarkets in Britain have resorted to rationing tomatoes because of huge shortages.

Asda has set a limit of three per person on tomatoes, peppers, cucumbers and other salad veg, while Morrisons has a maximum of two per person. Other supermarkets are set to follow suit and they say the shortages will last "weeks".

And the cause is... you guessed it, Brexit.

But as ever, this is disputed. The media have settled on "cold weather in Spain" as the reason for the problems. Oddly though there is no tomato shortage in... Spain.

They claim it is a Europe-wide shortage. But there is no tomato rationing in the EU.
 
We have issued an open challenge on social media for anyone to send us one single example of the rationing of fresh produce from anywhere in the EU, and no one has. Because it doesn't exist.

In fact, Twitter is full of photos from Spain, France, Italy, Greece and beyond showing supermarkets positively heaving with tomatoes. Our own supporters living in the EU have told us there are no shortages. European media are reporting on a UK tomato shortage, not a European one.

There is only one country with a problem, and once again it is the one that has cut itself off from the rest of Europe.
 

Yes, we have no tomatoes

Now, there is some truth in the point about the weather. Spanish tomato production is down. Moroccan tomato yields – which the UK hoped to rely on instead of EU crops – are down further.

So how is Brexit the cause?

Britain has long relied on imported EU fruit and veg during the winter. But since Brexit produce has been having a hard time making it from the EU without long delays and queues at ports, as shown by the noticeably shorter shelf lives lately.

Now, imagine you are a tomato grower with a shortfall. There is enough demand to sell your whole crop inside the EU single market, where you face no barriers between countries. Why would you bother to incur the expense and inconvenience of shipping it across the Brexit border?

One further relevant piece of evidence: the tomato problem is not affecting Northern Ireland!

Brexit has also increased Britain's reliance on non-EU imports, which in the case of tomatoes means Morocco. They have been worse hit than Spain, with floods and cancelled shipping.

Inside the EU, countries can rely on each other when problems like this hit, and rapidly shift around supply chains to keep the shelves well stocked. But outside the EU, we're on our own.
 

Just remember this

If you only remember one thing from this message, make it this:

There is tomato rationing in Brexit Britain. There is no tomato rationing in the EU.

 

Not sure how this impacts the west of Scotland. 3 tomatoes would be an aspirational annual target in Glasgow. 😁

Edited February 22, 2023 by Japan Jambo

[WorldChampions1902]

Just now, Japan Jambo said:

 

Not sure how this impacts the west of Scotland. 3 tomatoes would be an aspirational annual target in Glasgow.

😂 My Dad used to say, “if you took chip pans out of all the houses in Glasgow, the population would starve to death”.
 

I think that was probably true of a few areas in other major cities TBF.

[Japan Jambo]

1 minute ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

😂 My Dad used to say, “if you took chip pans out of all the houses in Glasgow, the population would starve to death”.
 

I think that was probably true of a few areas in other major cities TBF.

 

For sure, no question that eating healthily costs time and money. Wish I'd been brought up with a better diet as I'd love to have different food preferences to the ones I have now. 

[Dazo]

39 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Tesco, Morrisons, Aldi, Lidl and Sainsbury's. Nothing.

Keep up the gas lighting, Tory boy.

Must be keeping all the tomatoes for where the Tories shop. Unlucky buddy. 

[WorldChampions1902]

39 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Here's your regular reminder that we haven't even implemented Brexit properly yet.

 

Project Fear!! 

[il Duce McTarkin]

1 hour ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Tesco, Morrisons, Aldi, Lidl and Sainsbury's. Nothing.

Keep up the gas lighting, Tory boy.

 

I've not had any problems either, tbf, and I'm 5 minutes along the bypass from Dalkeith.

[joondalupjambo]

All year round UK tomato grower, the good and then the not so good.

Closure due to high energy prices and other issues related to trading conditions, Brexit?

 

https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2019-01-02/food-of-the-future-the-tomatoes-growing-in-a-greenhouse-the-size-of-11-football-pitches  2019

Then saved by an investor.

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/restructures-and-receiverships/tomato-producer-sterling-suffolk-rescued-from-administration/666291.article 2022

[The Old Tolbooth]

13 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Tonight’s news is explaining the rationing of fresh produce (including tomatoes), as being down to bad weather in Europe. Absolutely no mention of Brexit being a factor. 
The truth is, yet again, being suppressed by our ‘impartial’ media. Some facts on tomatoes for example.

Our shelves are bare. Supermarkets in Britain have resorted to rationing tomatoes because of huge shortages.

Asda has set a limit of three per person on tomatoes, peppers, cucumbers and other salad veg, while Morrisons has a maximum of two per person. Other supermarkets are set to follow suit and they say the shortages will last "weeks".

And the cause is... you guessed it, Brexit.

But as ever, this is disputed. The media have settled on "cold weather in Spain" as the reason for the problems. Oddly though there is no tomato shortage in... Spain.

They claim it is a Europe-wide shortage. But there is no tomato rationing in the EU.
 
We have issued an open challenge on social media for anyone to send us one single example of the rationing of fresh produce from anywhere in the EU, and no one has. Because it doesn't exist.

In fact, Twitter is full of photos from Spain, France, Italy, Greece and beyond showing supermarkets positively heaving with tomatoes. Our own supporters living in the EU have told us there are no shortages. European media are reporting on a UK tomato shortage, not a European one.

There is only one country with a problem, and once again it is the one that has cut itself off from the rest of Europe.
 

Yes, we have no tomatoes

Now, there is some truth in the point about the weather. Spanish tomato production is down. Moroccan tomato yields – which the UK hoped to rely on instead of EU crops – are down further.

So how is Brexit the cause?

Britain has long relied on imported EU fruit and veg during the winter. But since Brexit produce has been having a hard time making it from the EU without long delays and queues at ports, as shown by the noticeably shorter shelf lives lately.

Now, imagine you are a tomato grower with a shortfall. There is enough demand to sell your whole crop inside the EU single market, where you face no barriers between countries. Why would you bother to incur the expense and inconvenience of shipping it across the Brexit border?

One further relevant piece of evidence: the tomato problem is not affecting Northern Ireland!

Brexit has also increased Britain's reliance on non-EU imports, which in the case of tomatoes means Morocco. They have been worse hit than Spain, with floods and cancelled shipping.

Inside the EU, countries can rely on each other when problems like this hit, and rapidly shift around supply chains to keep the shelves well stocked. But outside the EU, we're on our own.
 

Just remember this

If you only remember one thing from this message, make it this:

There is tomato rationing in Brexit Britain. There is no tomato rationing in the EU.

 

Excellent  

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Dirk McTarkin said:

 

I've not had any problems either, tbf, and I'm 5 minutes along the bypass from Dalkeith.

I've not had Aids (not the bad one anyway), doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 🤔

[il Duce McTarkin]

22 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I've not had Aids (not the bad one anyway), doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 🤔

 

Never said it didn't, but I don't think we're anywhere near the doomsday stage that some folks' political inclinations would like us to be at. Not saying we're not going to get to that stage at some point either, mind.

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Dirk McTarkin said:

 

Never said it didn't, but I don't think we're anywhere near the doomsday stage that some folks' political inclinations would like us to be at. Not saying we're not going to get to that stage at some point either, mind.

 

Purely because we haven't actually implemented everything yet.

[WorldChampions1902]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

Purely because we haven't actually implemented everything yet.

You sure?

 

It was “Oven-Ready”, with quote, “No downsides and only considerable upsides”. 

[il Duce McTarkin]

16 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Purely because we haven't actually implemented everything yet.

 

And?

 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

2 minutes ago, Dirk McTarkin said:

 

And?

 

 

It will make this cluster-**** look like the salad days, so to speak. 

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, Dirk McTarkin said:

 

And?

 

Hey that's not very edge lordy!

[il Duce McTarkin]

10 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

It will make this cluster-**** look like the salad days, so to speak. 

 

It might, it might not. One thing is for certain, though, climate change is going to make shortages a MUCH more common occurance.

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, Dirk McTarkin said:

 

It might, it might not. One thing is for certain, though, climate change is going to make shortages a MUCH more common occurance.

 

And those within the EU will help each other out, while we remain bufferless and subject to the worst extremes.

 

But it remains that if we'd actually implemented the brexit agreement, we'd be in deep shit just now.

[il Duce McTarkin]

29 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

And those within the EU will help each other out, while we remain bufferless and subject to the worst extremes.

 

But it remains that if we'd actually implemented the brexit agreement, we'd be in deep shit just now.

 

Maybe they will, maybe they won't, and if we had, maybe we would be. I'm sure you'd find plenty to greet about, regardless.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by Dirk McTarkin

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Dirk McTarkin said:

 

It might, it might not. One thing is for certain, though, climate change is going to make shortages a MUCH more common occurance.

You are very much bang on the cash with that.

 

Thank the lord the government are doing everything in their power to mitigate this potential issue.

 

Oh wait.....

 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Who could have possibly predicted that a country that imports most of its fruits and vegetables would suffer fruit and vegetable shortages when it blows up its trade agreements and fails to renegotiate them because they think they're still an empire . . .

[il Duce McTarkin]

35 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

You are very much bang on the cash with that.

 

Thank the lord the government are doing everything in their power to mitigate this potential issue.

 

Oh wait.....

 

 

No government is doing enough, anywhere. 

 

5 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

because they think they're still an empire . . .

 

Ah, so that's why there are no trade deals.

[WorldChampions1902]

6 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

Who could have possibly predicted that a country that imports most of its fruits and vegetables would suffer fruit and vegetable shortages when it blows up its trade agreements and fails to renegotiate them because they think they're still an empire . . .

“Project Fear” according to the hard of thinking.

[Unknown user]

3 hours ago, Dirk McTarkin said:

 

Maybe they will, maybe they won't, and if we had, maybe we would be. I'm sure you'd find plenty to greet about, regardless.

 

They will, they already are, that's why they're not having to ration tomatoes

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Dirk McTarkin said:

 

No government is doing enough, anywhere. 

 

No government anywhere on the planet is imposing economic sanctions on itself, except one. Great Britain.