Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Cruyff Turn]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

The SNP would have to agree to coalition or C&S with Labour.     The SNP cannot take a course of action that leads to the Tories forming a government instead.     Pro-independence majority at Holyrood + SNP's hand up Corbyn's bum at Westminster = referendum.

I think they’d agree to C&S with Labour on a policy by policy basis. I don’t think they’d go into Coalition with them. It might of course include the LIbDems as well, as they will surely get a boost due to their position on Brexit.

[Victorian]

Just now, Cruyff Turn said:

I think they’d agree to C&S with Labour on a policy by policy basis. I don’t think they’d go into Coalition with them. It might of course include the LIbDems as well, as they will surely get a boost due to their position on Brexit.

 

All depends on the arithmetic of course but a rainbow coalition would be unweildy.     Maybe LD in a formal coalition with Labour + the SNP providing C&S.     SNP stay out of government which suits everyone.

[Cruyff Turn]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

All depends on the arithmetic of course but a rainbow coalition would be unweildy.     Maybe LD in a formal coalition with Labour + the SNP providing C&S.     SNP stay out of government which suits everyone.

I could see that being agreeable to all. 

It’ll be a very strange GE if it comes to pass, UKIP may severely dilute both Labour and Tory votes on the other side of the fence with ardent remainers voting Lib Dem. It could go the other way and we end up with a Right wing Tory/UK/DUP government. ?

[Victorian]

7 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

I could see that being agreeable to all. 

It’ll be a very strange GE if it comes to pass, UKIP may severely dilute both Labour and Tory votes on the other side of the fence with ardent remainers voting Lib Dem. It could go the other way and we end up with a Right wing Tory/UK/DUP government. ?

 

Agreed.    The whole thing will be unpredictable.      There's no telling how party Brexit position + MP voting history + either remain/leave leftfield voting will apply.       Add TIG/ChangeUK in there too.     The SNP might end up in trouble in some seats through little fault of their own.   

[AlimOzturk]

I think it could be an absolutely terrible 

 turn out for a GE. People have lost faith in politics

 

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

I think it could be an absolutely terrible 

 turn out for a GE. People have lost faith in politics

 

 

Ideal time to create a protest party though. Finally electoral success for the Pirate Party?

[Cruyff Turn]

Theresa May is going to bring forward MV4 linked with a motion to call a vote of no confidence in her Govt if she loses. 

 

GE it is. 

[graygo]

All rejected.

[Victorian]

All no again.

[Cade]

All defeated again.

 

Absolute and total paralysis continues.

 

Westminster is in a feckin coma.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Cade

[Don Dan]

Confusing or what!

[gashauskis9]

Has to be a GE.  The whole thing’s ****ed.

[...a bit disco]

MV4 then?

 

 

[graygo]

Independence getting closer?

[Cruyff Turn]

 

Again. 

[redjambo]

DUP reported to have voted against everything, despite saying they would abstain. Customs Union scuttled by 3 votes.

[hughesie27]

1 minute ago, ...a bit disco said:

MV4 then?

 

 

What is she going to change to the motion this time?

[Victorian]

Nick Boles leaves Tory Party in tears.

 

[hughesie27]

Boles resigned.

[Cruyff Turn]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

DUP reported to have voted against everything, despite saying they would abstain. Customs Union scuttled by 3 votes.

That’ll be Scott Browns fault. That’s why they did it. 

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, hughesie27 said:

What is she going to change to the motion this time?

 

It will be the same text, but will be written in Greek and sung to the tune of "Men of Harlech".

[hughesie27]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

Nick Boles leaves Tory Party in tears.

 

Literally ?

[graygo]

Resignations starting now.   

[Jamboelite]

5 minutes ago, redjambo said:

DUP reported to have voted against everything, despite saying they would abstain. Customs Union scuttled by 3 votes.

These ****ers have way too much power.in this.

 

****ing revoke the thing and lets start this omnishambles again.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Jamboelite

[Martin_T]

I'm fully on board with Scottish independence now. England is becoming a populist farce. We are fundamentally different to them culturally and politically.

 

I honestly would not be against a unilateral declaration of independence.

[Victorian]

Steve Baker said he might vote against government in a confidence motion.    Boles would now.     Very important cabinet meeting tomorrow with resignations almost certain.     

[Victorian]

Corbyn's only point was to call for another go on Wednesday.    They might have to move towards the Cherry motion as suggested they would by Starmer.

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

I'm fully on board with Scottish independence now. England is becoming a populist farce. We are fundamentally different to them culturally and politically.

 

I honestly would not be against a unilateral declaration of independence.

 

Brexit has affected me in this way too. I've come to realise that we Scots generally (I have to say that because of course not everyone thinks the same way) have a different approach to internationalism and society than the English do nowadays. I'm not sure we are that different culturally, but the EU referendum showed that we are different politically. I want back into the EU so a unilateral declaration of independence wouldn't wash with me (the EU wouldn't accept us if that were the case), but I'm certainly voting for independence if/when we get a new referendum, reversing my vote from the previous time.

[...a bit disco]

12 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

What is she going to change to the motion this time?

 

A free Walnut Whip to all who vote in favour.

[Sooperstar]

 

[Cruyff Turn]

6 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

I'm fully on board with Scottish independence now. England is becoming a populist farce. We are fundamentally different to them culturally and politically.

 

I honestly would not be against a unilateral declaration of independence.

Scotland can’t go UDI because it’s not classed as a colony. If they reject a section 30 order or the outcome of a Holyrood Ref then we might have to go down that route. 

[AlphonseCapone]

8 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

I'm fully on board with Scottish independence now. England is becoming a populist farce. We are fundamentally different to them culturally and politically.

 

I honestly would not be against a unilateral declaration of independence.

 

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Brexit has affected me in this way too. I've come to realise that we Scots generally (I have to say that because of course not everyone thinks the same way) have a different approach to internationalism and society than the English do nowadays. I'm not sure we are that different culturally, but the EU referendum showed that we are different politically. I want back into the EU so a unilateral declaration of independence wouldn't wash with me (the EU wouldn't accept us if that were the case), but I'm certainly voting for independence if/when we get a new referendum, reversing my vote from the previous time.

 

I do wonder whether these continued events will eventually see a significant shift in public opinion towards independence. 

[Victorian]

A better impact would have been to go and sit on the opposite benches.   Stay and face them up.    Not scurry out in a huff.       Anna Soubry's got bigger baws than him. 

[hughesie27]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

A better impact would have been to go and sit on the opposite benches.   Stay and face them up.    Not scurry out in a huff.       Anna Soubry's got bigger baws than him. 

You can't just sit where you want.

[Victorian]

Just now, hughesie27 said:

You can't just sit where you want.

 

Yes you can.    It's been done before.

[CJGJ]

It simply proves that voting for Brexit without any kind of deal was a terrible decision

 

Those who voted to leave did not have any real idea of what they wanted from the exit and all we heard was woolly statements about freedom (with promises re immigration to please many of the leave voters) and lies about the money we would save.... now we can see the mess we are in

 

The deal should have been negotiated prior to any vote, the vote taken on the deal and then we would all have had certainty

 

There is only one way out and that is another vote on the deal on offer

 

 

But that will not happen as some MPs are willing to put all their principles to one side for they fear a new vote.

 

A few weeks ago Mays deal was terrible stated many of the Brexiteers and now some are telling us they will accept it as the best of a bad lot of options...note they accept it is a bad deal but as long as it suits them what do they care....certainly they do not care about the country if they are willing to vote for a bad deal in their own words

[Martin_T]

I think it's very concerning that the Conservative party is haemorrhaging it's moderate members. The likes of Boles, Grieve and Clarke, whilst I may disagree with much of their politics, at least come across as decent human beings.

[Mikey1874]

35 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Theresa May is going to bring forward MV4 linked with a motion to call a vote of no confidence in her Govt if she loses. 

 

GE it is. 

 

Probably

 

Then clear campaign positions for people to vote on 

[Unknown user]

19 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

What is she going to change to the motion this time?

 

[redjambo]

3 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

I think it's very concerning that the Conservative party is haemorrhaging it's moderate members. The likes of Boles, Grieve and Clarke, whilst I may disagree with much of their politics, at least come across as decent human beings.

 

The party is trying to prevent a possible schism of the hard right members which, given the current political climate, would be a much larger loss than the moderates. Collateral damage. I agree though, it's a shame. It will lead to an even greater polarisation in politics.

[Mikey1874]

They need to try again and see where there is a consensus. 

 

But general election seems inevitable. 

[Martin_T]

Just now, redjambo said:

 

The party is trying to prevent a possible schism of the hard right members which, given the current political climate, would be a much larger loss than the moderates. Collateral damage. I agree though, it's a shame. It will lead to an even greater polarisation in politics.

 

Populism genuinely frightens me, it's thinly veiled fascism and what is worse, is that it's everywhere. There's a large section of the Conservative party, the largest party in Westminster, which is currently in its thrall.

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, Martin_T said:

 

Populism genuinely frightens me, it's thinly veiled fascism and what is worse, is that it's everywhere. There's a large section of the Conservative party, the largest party in Westminster, which is currently in its thrall.

 

It was/is one of the aims of the EU, to try to create a common bond between countries to try and avoid the nationalism which had led to such destruction in the past. These are trying times for the European project and the UK isn't exactly helping the situation.

[Costanza]

21 minutes ago, Victorian said:

A better impact would have been to go and sit on the opposite benches.   Stay and face them up.    Not scurry out in a huff.       Anna Soubry's got bigger baws than him. 

I think he did cross the floor. Has certainly tweeted that he will sit as an Independent Progressive Conservative,  so not in the TIG it sounds like.

 

Looking at the votes, none of the compromise deals got more than 40 Tory votes, so even if Labour and SNP did vote fully for the Customs Union, how do the Government accept it without tearing the Tory party apart?

All the while,  the lights of the No deal train are hurtling down the track....

Edited April 1, 2019 by Costanza

[JamboX2]

Country being held to ransom by the ERG. Utterly disheartening. I wish some Tory MPs had broken ranks. I wish the SNP would back Customs Union. 

 

And again, again, the brexiteers treat this transitional deal as the final deal. 

 

Idiots. Absolute idiots.

 

Fair play to Nick Boles. Resigning the Tory whip after trying his all. I can't see the Tories surviving this. 

[JAYEL]

Leave continuances will now have a chance to get rid of the remainers in a General Election

[JamboX2]

8 minutes ago, Costanza said:

I think he did cross the floor. Has certainly tweeted that he will sit as an Independent Progressive Conservative,  so not in the TIG it sounds like.

 

Looking at the votes, none of the compromise deals got more than 40 Tory votes, so even if Labour and SNP did vote fully for the Customs Union, how do the Government accept it without tearing the Tory party apart?

All the while,  the lights of the No deal train are hurtling down the track....

 

 

This is why we need a Government of National Unity now. I'd happily see a moderate Tory take on a government of all parties to take us through to the next election in 2022. 

 

An election will not do much. May wont win a majority nor will Corbyn. So same boat.

[Mikey1874]

2 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Labour whipped for every indicative vote but abstain for Joanna Cherry’s. I hope that Labour don’t find themselves in a position at a future GE where they need to beg the SNP to support their minority Government. They should be told to sling their hook. 

 

2 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Well, they had their chance to end Brexit and I’m sure ardent remain voters will be made aware that Labour didn’t stand up for them. 

 

I think it's fair enough to criticise Labour on lots of grounds.

 

But the big difference is Labour are trying to ensure Brexit happens. The SNP are trying to stop it. Labour cannot win an election without leave voters. Easy for the SNP to ignore them though it might cost them the chance of  independence. 

[JamboX2]

46 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

I'm fully on board with Scottish independence now. England is becoming a populist farce. We are fundamentally different to them culturally and politically.

 

I honestly would not be against a unilateral declaration of independence.

 

No deal Brexit to no deal independence. Wonderful. 

[Mikey1874]

How the parties voted

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47779783