Cade Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) Rumours of another TV statement from Treeza Denied by #10 Edited April 2, 2019 by Cade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 18 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said: The Government would need to put that down in law as the DUP won't just trust the Tories word. Wasn't there something the other week that the DUP wanted written into law as they couldn't trust any future government not to renage on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMac Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) That is the current deal! the one rejected 3 times.... Edited April 2, 2019 by IMac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Francis Albert said: Idon't think I have seen a straight poll choice between No Deal and the May/EU deal. Happy to be contradicted. Since everyone is ignoring me or at least promising to do so) I will now contradict myself! Though I don't go much by polls. a November poll (Deltapoll) showed May deal vs Remain ahead 56 to 44 and May Deal vs No Deal 58 to 42, confirming my suspicion directionally at least.. Edited April 2, 2019 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 French sounding unhappy at the prospect of another extension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 26 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: It takes little effort given the substance of the replies. "GO AWAY" is not an argument. Here's an argument: the fact I was able to find three far more recent polls directly contradicting what you think in about 30 seconds of searching is EVIDENCE that you're not actually trying to inform yourself and are expecting others here to inform you, while deliberately misunderstanding what others are saying, simply for the point of being argumentative. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-second-referendum-deal-opinion-poll-theresa-may-a8831241.html https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47693645 And this from a blatantly pro-Brexit (and pro-no deal site): Quote Q7: A plurality, 46%, would vote to Remain if the referendum was held again, while 39% would vote to Leave the EU. Excluding undecideds and those who refused to answer, Remain garners 50% to 42% for Leave. https://www.peoplespunditdaily.com/polls/2019/03/11/no-deal-brexit-gains-eu-referendum-conservative-claims/ "GO AWAY" is the conclusion, not the supporting facts. And it's well substantiated. Q.E.D., GO AWAY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 9 hours ago, JamboX2 said: And have a hard border with the EU and with the UK? Smashing. Norway doesn't have a hard border with the EU. Norway is in Shengen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, coconut doug said: Norway doesn't have a hard border with the EU. Norway is in Shengen. Indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Cabinet meeting drags on into its 8th hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 14 minutes ago, Ugly American said: Here's an argument: the fact I was able to find three far more recent polls directly contradicting what you think in about 30 seconds of searching is EVIDENCE that you're not actually trying to inform yourself and are expecting others here to inform you, while deliberately misunderstanding what others are saying, simply for the point of being argumentative. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-second-referendum-deal-opinion-poll-theresa-may-a8831241.html https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47693645 And this from a blatantly pro-Brexit (and pro-no deal site): https://www.peoplespunditdaily.com/polls/2019/03/11/no-deal-brexit-gains-eu-referendum-conservative-claims/ "GO AWAY" is the conclusion, not the supporting facts. And it's well substantiated. Q.E.D., GO AWAY As I said in relation to the poll I quoted I don't put much faith in polls. As the contrast between your quoted polls and mine show they are volatile. The BBC one you quoted suggests a large majority against a second referendum with a Remain option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 9 hours ago, JamboX2 said: So, thinking it through, the PM's plan is to stoke nationalist anger in Scotland with a hard Brexit and maintain a position which maintains Sturgeon's material change of circumstances rather than undercut that reasoning for indyref2 by meeting them in the middle? The PM is not meeting anybody in the middle and never has as far as i can see. This is her greatest attribute. The quote came from Nick Watt (Guardian now BBC) and is in the context of TM demanding a harsh whipping regime on the Boles amendment. She thinks membership of the single market means Scotland can maintain its market with RUK after Indy and this undermines the case for the union. Boles has left the Con Party as a consequence of this. You need to use another term rather than Nationalist when referring to supporters of Scottish Indy, particularly in the context of of all these flag waving types hanging about o/s Westminster. Independence supporters is fine. "Stoking nationalist anger" is not a good phrase either, it puts people in mind of Tommy Robinson and Farage and their behaviour at the weekend and i'm sure you wouldn't want to do that. We are not like them and don't share their sentiments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 58 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: Wasn't there something the other week that the DUP wanted written into law as they couldn't trust any future government not to renage on it. Can't remember what it was but there was definitely something. What's your views on all the going ons? You've been fairly quiet on the thread recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Cade said: You can't just have a referendum of "May's Deal or No Deal". That disenfranchises everybody who voted remain last time. The UK is not governed by mob rule. Gammons cannot be allowed to dictate government policy through the threat of violence. That is actual fascism. A rather inadequate definition of fascism. But by that rather silly standard it could be argued that the only people standing up to "fascism" are the DUP who are not cowed by the threat from the gunmen and bombers to return if a number plate recognition camera is put on the border. Incidentally doesn't the term "gammon" derive from the claimed "unhealthy pink skin colour" of certain white people. By any definition that seems actual racism to me. Edited April 2, 2019 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 1 hour ago, JAYEL said: UK staying in the backstop with N Ireland ( if it ever came to that ) would see Mays deal pass Not sure what that means. Staying in Backstop is Common Market 2.0 and at minimum a permanent Customs Union. Which Tories oppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAYEL Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 1 hour ago, AlphonseCapone said: The Government would need to put that down in law as the DUP won't just trust the Tories word. I doubt there is anything to stop them maybe apart from time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 14 minutes ago, coconut doug said: "Stoking nationalist anger" is not a good phrase either, it puts people in mind of Tommy Robinson and Farage and their behaviour at the weekend and i'm sure you wouldn't want to do that. We are not like them and don't share their sentiments. Indeed not. " Scotland's modern identity, much like that of the US, is an inclusive one. We basically take the approach that if you do want to be Scottish, you can be." -- Nicola Sturgeon, speech at Stanford University, 4 April 2017. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costanza Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Francis Albert said: It takes little effort given the substance of the replies. "GO AWAY" is not an argument. You invariably don't retract or show any contrition when points are put to you and invariably fail to detail any evidence to back up your point of view,in my opinion. I've engaged with you twice previously on this thread in relation to firstly, the economic impact of a no deal Brexit citing numerous links to back up my point. Your response was that sometimes the majority aren't right and Mervyn King thought things would be OK. Wholly underwhelming. The second was in response to you castigating the Guardian for a glass half empty description of the Trade Deals that Liam Fox had rolled over. When it was pointed out that he had only rolled 40% and that he himself had promised to have them all completed before we left the EU, you replied that some people (with no evidence of who these some people were) said we wouldn't manage any and so 40% was therefore mildly encouraging. Unfortunately you appear to be aping the tendecies of a lot of leavers who when presented with evidence, ignore it as inconvenient to their argument hinting at bias or use strawman arguments such as the Remain side (effectively one wing of the Tory party) saying we would have a recession post the referendum, to nix all economic arguments against Brexit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Cabinet meeting now finished but cabinet not allowed to leave or have their phones back. Something is brewing and nobody knows what. It's driving journalists mental ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, Notts1874 said: Cabinet meeting now finished but cabinet not allowed to leave or have their phones back. Something is brewing and nobody knows what. It's driving journalists mental ?? Clearly May is making them all agree to back the same thing but f--- knows what. Rumors that it's extension to prepare for no deal. Bonkers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 You would think this implies there might be something new from the Government. But seems unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ugly American said: Clearly May is making them all agree to back the same thing but f--- knows what. Rumors that it's extension to prepare for no deal. Bonkers. The EU would tell them to bolt if that was the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) As a whole were England the only country to vote for leave ? Edited April 2, 2019 by vegas-voss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 1 minute ago, vegas-voss said: As a whole were England the only country to vote for leave ? Wales did as well I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 1 minute ago, vegas-voss said: As a whole were England the only country to vote for leave ? Wales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 1 minute ago, vegas-voss said: As a whole were England the only country to vote for leave ? Wales did too, because they're thick as feck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Statement from May shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 God only knows. Can't really see this being anything good, such is the weight of hard Brexit blood lust in the cabinet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Thanks for the reply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Just now, Victorian said: God only knows. Can't really see this being anything good, such is the weight of hard Brexit blood lust in the cabinet. Same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Or a big letdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Her deal vs no deal showdown? Nah. Parliament wouldn't just roll over for a tickle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 To ask for a further extension ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Another extension. Prepare for cabinet resignations. No deal off the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) On now Short extension Seems to be ruling out No Deal To agree plan with Jeremy Corbyn Agree plan or put options to Parliament Edited April 2, 2019 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 So as you were then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 "I've backed us all into a corner and there is no way out" "I'm begging for another extension to work out what to do" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Full reach out for united agreement and plan ahead. Or cleverly setting Labour up for the blame. You decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Costanza said: You invariably don't retract or show any contrition when points are put to you and invariably fail to detail any evidence to back up your point of view,in my opinion. I've engaged with you twice previously on this thread in relation to firstly, the economic impact of a no deal Brexit citing numerous links to back up my point. Your response was that sometimes the majority aren't right and Mervyn King thought things would be OK. Wholly underwhelming. The second was in response to you castigating the Guardian for a glass half empty description of the Trade Deals that Liam Fox had rolled over. When it was pointed out that he had only rolled 40% and that he himself had promised to have them all completed before we left the EU, you replied that some people (with no evidence of who these some people were) said we wouldn't manage any and so 40% was therefore mildly encouraging. Unfortunately you appear to be aping the tendecies of a lot of leavers who when presented with evidence, ignore it as inconvenient to their argument hinting at bias or use strawman arguments such as the Remain side (effectively one wing of the Tory party) saying we would have a recession post the referendum, to nix all economic arguments against Brexit. Not quite a fair summary on the first point. And I am certainly not contrite about pointing out the Guardian/Observer's relentlessy negative reporting on Brexit in its supposed "news" stories. Fox over-promised and underdelivered it is true, but he is a politician! (and he may have quite a bit of time yet to deliver!) I have not seen a correction of the Guardian/Observer reporting as fact that the anti-Brexit demo the other week attracted more than twice as many people as neutral experts have since estimated. The Remain side is effectively one wing of the Tory Party? Sounds like a Guardian/Observer "fact". Edited April 2, 2019 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Well that is some sort of progress. Always said that needed Labour votes as Tory Party was so split on Europe. Opens to Common Market 2.0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Just now, Victorian said: Full reach out for united agreement and plan ahead. Or cleverly setting Labour up for the blame. You decide. Depends if she accepts Labour's plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 So if we can’t agree a deal in parliament then what, because so far there is no agreement or likely to be across the House. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Francis Albert said: Not quite a fair summary on the first point. And I am certainly not contrite about pointing out the Guardian/Observer's relentlessy negative reporting on Brexit in its supposed "news" stories. Fox over-promised and underdelivered it is true, but he is a politician! I have not seen a correction of the Guardian/Observer reporting as fact that the anti-Brexit demo the other week attracted more than twice as many people as neutral experts have since estimated. The Remain side is effectively one wing of the Tory Party? Sounds like a Guardian/Observer "fact". You're missing the main event Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Dannie Boy said: So if we can’t agree a deal in parliament then what, because so far there is no agreement or likely to be across the House. I think there can be agreement around Common Market 2.0. They've only had a week and they made a lot of progress yesterday with Labour and SNP formally supporting it. Edited April 2, 2019 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Just now, Mikey1874 said: Depends if she accepts Labour's plan. She was clear about it being a joint effort. She's not handing it to Labour. Labour are now on the spot to either take it in best faith or to be cautious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 It's going to be a soft Brexit then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Just now, Notts1874 said: It's going to be a soft Brexit then. It was always going to be, as the GFA makes a hard brexit impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: You're missing the main event Catching up now. Time will tell how "main" the current main event is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Labour should avoid any sarcasm, gloating, etc. If Labour buy into this then they should be professional about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Victorian said: She was clear about it being a joint effort. She's not handing it to Labour. Labour are now on the spot to either take it in best faith or to be cautious. May is on the spot when Labour talks her what they want. But it's two stage. May and Corbyn agree deal or options go to Parliament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, Victorian said: Full reach out for united agreement and plan ahead. Or cleverly setting Labour up for the blame. You decide. Setting Labour up to take the flack ! Simple as that. I cant belive that was " the statement" She said absolutely NOTHING new Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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