Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Cade]

This twat managed to shut down the whole of St Pancras all by himself.

All Eurostar services were cancelled.

Spent the entire night up on the roof wrapped in his wee England flag.

44-year-old man arrested this morning.

 

Edited March 30, 2019 by Cade

[Class of 75]

6 hours ago, ri Alban said:

A Scottish Masters?! That will be as much use as a Clydesdale bank £50 note when you move south. You'd be aswell handing your future boss a sheet of used bog roll.  ?  Just going by how shite Scotland is, and that.?

 

She's coming back for MV4

Thanks for the kind words. Irrespective of what happens I think I will be OK. 

[Class of 75]

5 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

During the Indy ref Scotland was told we (The UK) are a family of Nations. 

 

Nations!

 

“A community of people inhabiting a defined territory and organized under an independent government; a sovereign political state....”

 

The second largest NATION in the UK family of nations rejected leaving the EU. 

 

Should the SNP just forget about that & just coalesce around England & Wales vote to leave then?

 

Pish!

Fair enough. That is your view

[Jamboelite]

33 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

Thanks for the kind words. Irrespective of what happens I think I will be OK. 

Yes, i might disagree with your view but somehow i think the quality of your degree will be ok in a post brexit world wherever you go.

Edited March 30, 2019 by Jamboelite

[Jamboelite]

54 minutes ago, Cade said:

This twat managed to shut down the whole of St Pancras all by himself.

All Eurostar services were cancelled.

Spent the entire night up on the roof wrapped in his wee England flag.

44-year-old man arrested this morning.

 

Rubber bullets were invented for incidents like this, if he slides off he slides off  ?

Edited March 30, 2019 by Jamboelite

[Costanza]

2 hours ago, Cade said:

Grieve is not going to be de-selected.

The confidence vote of his local party has no effect other than a protest.

There is no mechanism either within Parliament or the Tory party to remove or deselect an MP.

The 182 angry gammons who voted against him are not going to be able to remove him.

His constituents voted to remain and the deselection campaign headed by someone who stood against him for UKIP in the 2017 election.

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, Jamboelite said:

Rubber bullets were invented for incidents like this, if he slides off he slides off  ?

This.

[ri Alban]

5 hours ago, Class of 75 said:

Thanks for the kind words. Irrespective of what happens I think I will be OK. 

 ?

[Bindy Badgy]

 

 

 

[Cade]

Tory MPs saying they'll block any attempt by May to call another election.

She'd need a 2/3 majority of the House to call an election.

However she could then call a no-confidence motion in her own government, which then only needs a simple majority in the commons to trigger an election.

WTF is going on

[Cruyff Turn]

12 minutes ago, Cade said:

Tory MPs saying they'll block any attempt by May to call another election.

She'd need a 2/3 majority of the House to call an election.

However she could then call a no-confidence motion in her own government, which then only needs a simple majority in the commons to trigger an election.

WTF is going on

That’s ****ing nuts. 

[The Mighty Thor]

41 minutes ago, Cade said:

Tory MPs saying they'll block any attempt by May to call another election.

She'd need a 2/3 majority of the House to call an election.

However she could then call a no-confidence motion in her own government, which then only needs a simple majority in the commons to trigger an election.

WTF is going on

In the context of the shit show so far that's actually  a rational course of action. 

Ironically if three was a GE I reckon it would be even more inconclusive 

[ri Alban]

5 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

In the context of the shit show so far that's actually  a rational course of action. 

Ironically if three was a GE I reckon it would be even more inconclusive 

Ukip will win the next GE.  

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Ukip will win the next GE.  

[Mikey1874]

The Motions for tomorrow's vote have been getting amended to try to bring in more people. 

 

SNP included. 

[Mikey1874]

David Gaulk Cabinet minister on Marr show was interesting. We don't know these days whether Cabinet ministers talk for themselves or the Government these days.

 

But pretty much ruled out No Deal. 

[Mikey1874]

Revoke petition just reached 6 million.

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584 

 

Though another option pretty much ruled out. 

[JamboX2]

On 29/03/2019 at 20:57, Smithee said:

Thank God I'm no in London tonight!

 

I'm starting to think there won't be a Brexit in the near future.

Ages ago I opined that a long extension was most likely but recently everything's been so much more frantic and that possibility has seemed remote.

 

But now, I realise that the DUP won't have May's deal and they won't have no deal. They won't accept anything other than a frictionless border with the republic which can't happen as things stand with no deal, and any alternative would mean an open border there and some sort of border in the Irish sea between them and the rest of the UK. And anything that they see as putting a wedge between them and the UK is basically satan.

 

They won't allow either of these outcomes as long as it's in their power, and if there's an election where they lose that power and one of those things happens, they'll go ****ing postal.

 

Say what you like about Ulster unionists, but they're not the type to compromise on their beliefs.

This is going to get messier. 

 

The DUP being in favour of a long extension is a game changer for parliamentary arithmetic. As you point out they are unionists first and brexiteers secondly. If this process threatens the security of the union I'd expect them to ditch the ERG. But I think on Friday the ERG showed the DUP the union was cover for their own motives in backing a deal the DUP don't want.

 

This shows the naievity of the DUP. The ERG's motives were always there and those in command of the ERG would happily throw their mothers under a bus to save their Brexit dream.

 

I think next week will see the Deal edge closer to agreement when the CU is backed as the compromise position. Assuming either the SNP or TIG back it. 

 

A referendum will only happen if May goes and we have a caretaker PM and participation in EU elections. And if it ends up a new election with a new Tory leader it'll be a long extension as well. 

 

Revocation seems out of reach for now. But referendum and soft Brexit are in play. For all our sakes those who have the most unyielding of principles need to put them aside and accept a compromise position. I fear one or two parties (Tories and SNP) wont and the other big one will be split and indecisive on acting.

[Cade]

Honda workers in Swindon marching against the closure of the factory in the town that directly employs 3,500 people and supports many thousands more in the supply chain.

 

Perhaps they should have thought of this in 2016 before voting 54% leave.

[SwindonJambo]

2 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

The DUP being in favour of a long extension is a game changer for parliamentary arithmetic. As you point out they are unionists first and brexiteers secondly. If this process threatens the security of the union I'd expect them to ditch the ERG. But I think on Friday the ERG showed the DUP the union was cover for their own motives in backing a deal the DUP don't want.

 

This shows the naievity of the DUP. The ERG's motives were always there and those in command of the ERG would happily throw their mothers under a bus to save their Brexit dream.

 

I think next week will see the Deal edge closer to agreement when the CU is backed as the compromise position. Assuming either the SNP or TIG back it. 

 

A referendum will only happen if May goes and we have a caretaker PM and participation in EU elections. And if it ends up a new election with a new Tory leader it'll be a long extension as well. 

 

Revocation seems out of reach for now. But referendum and soft Brexit are in play. For all our sakes those who have the most unyielding of principles need to put them aside and accept a compromise position. I fear one or two parties (Tories and SNP) wont and the other big one will be split and indecisive on acting.

 

I think that’s a very well balanced and accurate summary of the Situation X2. I live in a Majority Remain area and work in a majority Leave one. Most people here are thoroughly fed up with the situation and just want a resolution one way or the other. I personally think this could drag on for months and months and maybe even a year or more. There are several uncompromising vested interest groups in Parliament who won’t shift their position regardless. There are also a good few hard Brexiteer disaster capitalists like JRM who’d like nothing better than a Hard Brexit to line their own pockets which is bare faced corruption.

 

Some of the participants in Friday’s march were absolute nutters and the leave side appear to have s lot more of them than the Remain side though I’m definitely not tarring all Leave supporters with the same brush, the majority of whom are perfectly decent.

 

If there was a GE, I think Labour would win it hands down if they had a half decent leader like Kier Starmers or Yvette Cooper. I was voting Labour until 2015 but I think a Corbyn lead Labour Government would be disastrous. Still couldn’t bring myself ever to vote Tory though.

[SwindonJambo]

16 minutes ago, Cade said:

Honda workers in Swindon marching against the closure of the factory in the town that directly employs 3,500 people and supports many thousands more in the supply chain.

 

Perhaps they should have thought of this in 2016 before voting 54% leave.

 

Honda’s departure is nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit. It was always going to close for purely business reasons. It’s been operating at half capacity for many years and all they now produce is the Civic Model, 90% of which are sold outside the U.K. 60% go outside Europe altogether. It was once a thriving place but Europe is no longer a big market for them and it makes no business sense for them to stay here. 

 

BMW are strongly rumoured to be interested in buying the site because they do very big business here and are short of capacity. It woulld be a good move for them because it would not involve a change in land use so no planning permission needed and it’s a ready made site.

Edited March 31, 2019 by SwindonJambo

[JamboX2]

2 hours ago, Cade said:

Honda workers in Swindon marching against the closure of the factory in the town that directly employs 3,500 people and supports many thousands more in the supply chain.

 

Perhaps they should have thought of this in 2016 before voting 54% leave.

 

I think it's a bit much to blame these people. Honda gave a statement for the closure in which they said it was everything to do with the EU-Japan Trade Deal allowing the jobs to move back to Japan without an impact on trade. So the cars can be built out with the EU and still be competitive in the EU market.

 

I think Brexit has hastened this. But its Japanese economic interests trumping those of the workers here.

 

Perhaps it's a sign that fundamentally our economic model and those favoured by the big 3 parties does not account for this and does not seek to redress issues around a lack of domestic ownership of our companies.

[SwindonJambo]

10 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

I think it's a bit much to blame these people. Honda gave a statement for the closure in which they said it was everything to do with the EU-Japan Trade Deal allowing the jobs to move back to Japan without an impact on trade. So the cars can be built out with the EU and still be competitive in the EU market.

 

I think Brexit has hastened this. But its Japanese economic interests trumping those of the workers here.

 

Perhaps it's a sign that fundamentally our economic model and those favoured by the big 3 parties does not account for this and does not seek to redress issues around a lack of domestic ownership of our companies.

 

The EU-Japan trade deal is a very good point to add. Japanese Companies are generally much more patriotic than others, who will simply base their business where conditions are most favourable. They’re certainly not moving back to Japan for cheap labour costs! China is now a big and growing market for them whereas their U.K. & European market share has shrunk.

 

As I said above the Swindon Honda plant is far past its peak. I’ve lived  5 miles from the factory since before Honda even purchased the site in the mid 80s. It had a production shutdown for the 1st 4 months of 2009 in the immediate aftermath of the Banking Crisis and though production did resume, it never even got close to fully recovering its past peak. They were stockpiling hundreds and hundreds of unsold cars at a nearby disused airfield, only resuming production when they were all sold with the aid of the government scrappage scheme and some hefty discounting.

[Francis Albert]

Lots of people's jobs have disappeared since we joined the EU. Whole industries have disappeared including much of our manufacturing base. What little that is left of our manufacturing base and infrastructure  is  now not UK owned or controlled, as Swindon Jambo points out.

But  almost every announcement of job losses or even deferment of or cancellation of jobs that don't yet exist is blamed on Brexit. A few hundred job losses, if they can be plausibly, or even implausibly, be linked to Brexit get bigger headlines than closure affecting thousands have got in the past.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Francis Albert

[ri Alban]

6 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Lots of people's jobs have disappeared since we joined the EU. Whole industries have disappeared including much of our manufacturing base. What little that is left of our manufacturing base and infrastructure  is  now not UK owned or controlled, as Swindon Jambo points out.

But  almost every announcement of job losses or even deferment of or cancellation of jobs that don't yet exist is blamed on Brexit. A few hundred job losses, if they can be plausibly, or even implausibly, be linked to Brexit get bigger headlines than closure affecting thousands have got in the past.

Thatcher decimated UK industry. The EU began in 1993.

[Francis Albert]

37 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Thatcher decimated UK industry. The EU began in 1993.

Sorry I was referring to the EU and its predecessors and to our date of joining the EEC (1974). The UK's industrial decline predated even that date by many decades of course, and actually Thatcher probably more than "decimated" what was left.

I just find the sneering at people in the Welsh valleys, Sunderland, Swindon and other areas which have suffered from this very long decline a bit distasteful. I think it is understandable that they want something to change, even if they may be a bit off-target. People in England and Wales have targeted EU membership. People in Scotland of course tend to target the other Union. I am not sure the latter's aim is any surer.

 

[SwindonJambo]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Thatcher decimated UK industry. The EU began in 1993.

Too simplistic and Far from completely true, though I share your contempt for that person. UK Industry had long been in decline before she came along.

 

To a very large degree, UK industry destroyed itself. Sloppy weak management, millitant trade unions and the inefficient and expensive production of uncompetitive products all contributed. 1970s British Leyland Cars anyone? Allegros, Princesses or Marinas? 

 

I remember seeing a banner in the Scotland end at Anfield in the 1977 World Cup qualifier v Wales reading 'Kenny Dalglish strikes faster than British Leyland', 2 years before Thatcher was even elected.

 

Of course it wasn't all bad and we still made some good stuff too. And with the right sort of help, some of the rest could have been improved and saved.

 

Thatcher's mistake was to brutally close everything that wasn't immediately profitable with scant regard for the huge  social damage that would cause. Because most of it was in non Tory voting areas, there were no seats to lose. She was also a complete snob and anti working class even though she was a working class social climber herself.

[Cade]

Remainers and Brexiteers alike threatening to resign from Cabinet unless May does what they say.

Total meltdown

 

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, SwindonJambo said:

Too simplistic and Far from completely true, though I share your contempt for that person. UK Industry had long been in decline before she came along.

 

To a very large degree, UK industry destroyed itself. Sloppy weak management, millitant trade unions and the inefficient and expensive production of uncompetitive products all contributed. 1970s British Leyland Cars anyone? Allegros, Princesses or Marinas? 

 

I remember seeing a banner in the Scotland end at Anfield in the 1977 World Cup qualifier v Wales reading 'Kenny Dalglish strikes faster than British Leyland', 2 years before Thatcher was even elected.

 

Of course it wasn't all bad and we still made some good stuff too. And with the right sort of help, some of the rest could have been improved and saved.

 

Thatcher's mistake was to brutally close everything that wasn't immediately profitable with scant regard for the huge  social damage that would cause. Because most of it was in non Tory voting areas, there were no seats to lose. She was also a complete snob and anti working class even though she was a working class social climber herself.

Agreed. She didn't give a damn about the working class, otherwise she could have made sure there was other things for the working man to go to after the closure of their mines, car factories, steel plants, etc... etc... 

She was simply obsessed with trade union annihilation. And the working man was collateral damage Anywhere that wasn't called London was irrelevant.

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Agreed. She didn't give a damn about the working class, otherwise she could have made sure there was other things for the working man to go to after the closure of their mines, car factories, steel plants, etc... etc... 

She was simply obsessed with trade union annihilation. And the working man was collateral damage Anywhere that wasn't called London was irrelevant.

It wasn't just that, she had the aim of transforming the economy from being reliant on struggling industries to becoming more of a service based economy - the relatively high wage in Britain meant that our industries had become uncompetitive.

 

The problem is that she went about it in a brutal, uncaring fashion that wrecked communities and trampled the dignity of workers into the dirt like the king sized **** that she was.

[Cade]

German’s Deputy Foreign Minister:

“Brexit is a big shitshow, I say that now very undiplomatically” 

“90%” of cabinet “no idea how workers think, live, work and behave” 
Politicians “born with silver spoons in their mouths, who went to private schools” that will not suffer.

 

[hughesie27]

Time do we expect these votes today?

[Cade]

Here is the agenda for the day.

11am: Downing Street lobby briefing.

2.30pm: Sajid Javid, the home secretary, takes questions in the Commons.

After 3.30pm: MPs begin debating the business motion for the indicative votes debate. That could run until 6pm. MPs will then start the proper debate, which will run until 8pm.

4.30pm: MPs hold a debate in Westminster Hall on the petition calling for article 50 to be revoked. But there won’t be a vote.

8pm: MPs vote on the indicative votes proposals selected by the speaker. They will be voting on paper. The results will be announced at some point after 9.30pm.

[Notts1874]

2 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Time do we expect these votes today?

Voting begins at 8pm. They have got the debate on the petition before the indicative vote debate begins.

[SE16 3LN]

12 hours ago, Smithee said:

It wasn't just that, she had the aim of transforming the economy from being reliant on struggling industries to becoming more of a service based economy - the relatively high wage in Britain meant that our industries had become uncompetitive.

 

The problem is that she went about it in a brutal, uncaring fashion that wrecked communities and trampled the dignity of workers into the dirt like the king sized **** that she was.

It wasn't so much UK wages were high, how could you compete with the wage of a Polish Coal miner for instance. Same shite today, 5 year old children in Bangladesh cost less money than UK workers. Global Capitalism is the problem

[Cade]

Moggy's been sharing tweets from Germany's AfD, and has tried to defend himself saying that although he doesn't support them, he does think they they have some important things to say.

So, in other words, supporting them.

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

7 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

It wasn't so much UK wages were high, how could you compete with the wage of a Polish Coal miner for instance. Same shite today, 5 year old children in Bangladesh cost less money than UK workers. Global Capitalism is the problem

 

It was reported at the time that it was far cheaper to import our coal from Poland (and elsewhere) than it was to extract it from British coalmines.

 

[Unknown user]

14 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

It wasn't so much UK wages were high, how could you compete with the wage of a Polish Coal miner for instance. Same shite today, 5 year old children in Bangladesh cost less money than UK workers. Global Capitalism is the problem

Yep, and that's exactly why I made a point of saying relatively high. I'm not saying British wages were particularly high, just high enough to be uncompetitive with many of our industrial competitors.

[ri Alban]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Yep, and that's exactly why I made a point of saying relatively high. I'm not saying British wages were particularly high, just high enough to be uncompetitive with many of our industrial competitors.

She sold all the family silver and all the cooncil hoose stock. That had nothing to do with high wages.

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 hours ago, Cade said:

German’s Deputy Foreign Minister:

“Brexit is a big shitshow, I say that now very undiplomatically” 

“90%” of cabinet “no idea how workers think, live, work and behave” 
Politicians “born with silver spoons in their mouths, who went to private schools” that will not suffer.

 

[Unknown user]

30 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

She sold all the family silver and all the cooncil hoose stock. That had nothing to do with high wages.

She did, and she's a **** for it, but I was only replying to the industry stuff in your post, not intended as a general critique of the Thatcher years!

[SE16 3LN]

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

It was reported at the time that it was far cheaper to import our coal from Poland (and elsewhere) than it was to extract it from British coalmines.

 

Yes, Thatcher imported communist coal to smash the communist enemy within

[Mikey1874]

18 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Yes, Thatcher imported communist coal to smash the communist enemy within

 

Coal will make a comeback hopefully in Scotland.

 

Maybe 20 /30 years time when renewables have reached limit or completely dominate. 

 

Interestingly world wide coal production remains steady at around 38% of energy supply. A concern for global warming. 

Edited April 1, 2019 by Mikey1874

[AlimOzturk]

19 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Coal will make a comeback hopefully in Scotland.

 

Maybe 20 /30 years time when renewables have reached limit or completely dominate. 

 

Interestingly world wide coal production remains steady at around 38% of energy supply. A concern for global warming. 

 

Fracking is far cheaper, easier and safer than coal. Witn New techniques to unearth oil and new tech such as wind, solar and the such making break thoughts i just can't see coal making a comeback. I heard the big myth that "fossil" fuels will be gone within 40-50 years and yet there still seems to be an endless supply being unearthed. 

 

Anyways totally off topic  

[SwindonJambo]

4 hours ago, Cade said:

German’s Deputy Foreign Minister:

“Brexit is a big shitshow, I say that now very undiplomatically” 

“90%” of cabinet “no idea how workers think, live, work and behave” 
Politicians “born with silver spoons in their mouths, who went to private schools” that will not suffer.

 

 

Now that's the kind of straight talking I like. How on Earth did he make it in politics???

[Cade]

Labour whipping to back the "Common Market 2.0" motion.

This includes staying in the single market and accepting free movement of workers.

[Poseidon]

Labour and SNP to back CM 2.0. Tories trying to whip MPs to abstain but not sure how successful that'll be. Either way it looks like this will get significantly more votes than May's 3rd attempt on Friday.....

Edited April 1, 2019 by Poseidon

[Cade]

170 Tory MPs have sent Treeza a letter demanding that the UK leaves on April 12th with or without a deal.

This single letter was hand signed by each of them, there is only one copy.

She's summoned them all to a meeting.

[Unknown user]

16 minutes ago, Cade said:

Labour whipping to back the "Common Market 2.0" motion.

This includes staying in the single market and accepting free movement of workers.

Hope hope!

[Mikey1874]

18 minutes ago, Cade said:

Labour whipping to back the "Common Market 2.0" motion.

This includes staying in the single market and accepting free movement of workers.

 

With the ability to suspend free movement.