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Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )


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Class of 75
3 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

This is turning into a dictatorship.

Obviously she doesn't understand that no means no. 

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4 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

Yes, I know that. I am a Unionist, I have no issue with the UK government being in London. Don't get me wrong I am not blind nor support what the Tories did in Scotland especially during the 80's, I just prefer to be British. 

No-one will stop you being British post independence. But what's wrong with being Scots.

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Class of 75
Just now, ri Alban said:

No-one will stop you being British post independence. But what's wrong with being Scots.

I am Scottish but would probably leave and go South

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20 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

I don't think they care much for Greece. I appreciate this sounds like I swallowed the scare mongering from the Leave side, but I can assure you as stated previous it was of major discussion when I studied it at Uni over 20 years ago. This was their intention then and still to this day. 

 

 

It wasn't a major discussion point 8 years ago when I studied it. 

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Class of 75
1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

 

It wasn't a major discussion point 8 years ago when I studied it. 

I suppose lecturers change. I was there in the mid 90's

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2 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

I am Scottish but would probably leave and go South

Gretna is where it's at. :D

Edited by ri Alban
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Just now, Class of 75 said:

I suppose lecturers change. I was there in the mid 90's

 

Of course. However, you were using the fact it was a major discussion point 20 years ago to suggest it must therefore be true.

 

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2 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

Yes that is true. However at that point what could not be foreseen was the EU Referendum or the result. Only my opinion but Scotland voted as part of the UK not as a separate nation. Incidentally what makes you think the EU would support a country espousing its Nationalism? It does not believe in it which is why Brexit is such a mess. To as accept Scotland aside from the financial issues would send the wrong message to other areas that wish to ceseed i.e. Catalonia. 

I'm not getting distracted by Spanish issues - simply not relevant.  

 

Incidentally what makes you think the EU would support a country espousing its Nationalism?....what are you talking about. I am simply talking about whether or not Scotland wished to retain it's EU membership , and if so, what it wants to do about it. 

 

Brexit is a mess because -

there was election fraud

Leave campaign refused to debate actual details (they saw how SNP got kebabed on that)

No one voted to be worse off

Immigration - will still be out of control. UK still has more from outside EU , while EU levels continue to fall

We are NOT  "taking back control"

we are paying £39BILLION just to leave 

 

And finally, even businesses can see the writing on the wall - a massive exodus of cash  and a slow but sure loss of jobs.  The Japanese govt thru Nikkei made a statement about the Sunderland car plant jobs loss that it's statement "should not be taken at face  value".  Happy days. The **** tried to save face with May. 

So we could leave on "no deal" , which if it's half as good as  it's now being painted , should make anyone question why May has tried against insurmountable odds to avoid it. 

Yeah, Brexit is a mess but everyone wants to blame the politicians because no one got what they wanted or were led to believe would be delivered when some it was NEVER going to be delivered. The UK wanted a fantasy "bespoke" deal that simply does not exist and was never going to be achievable. Ask the Swiss. 

 

But we had a referendum and now the facts of the matter are studiously ignored. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Westminster in turmoil.

:pleasing:

Whilst I agree to some extent, looking at some of the comments by Robinson and Farage I think this is going to lead to rioting tonight. Very fevered atmosphere

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1 minute ago, LeftBack said:

Whilst I agree to some extent, looking at some of the comments by Robinson and Farage I think this is going to lead to rioting tonight. Very fevered atmosphere

SO what?

Let the police get tore in about them and break a few heads.

The UK is not run by mob rule.

 

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3 minutes ago, LeftBack said:

Whilst I agree to some extent, looking at some of the comments by Robinson and Farage I think this is going to lead to rioting tonight. Very fevered atmosphere

Why ? Brexiters still get what they want, no ? 

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Vote Leave has today withdrawn its appeal and related proceedings against the Electoral Commission’s finding of multiple offences under electoral law, committed during the 2016 EU referendum campaign.

Vote Leave was the designated lead campaigner for the leave outcome at the referendum.

We found that it broke the electoral rules set out by Parliament to ensure fairness, confidence and legitimacy at an electoral event.

Serious offences such as these undermine public confidence in our system and it is vital, therefore, that they are properly investigated and sanctioned.

We have been advised that Vote Leave has paid its £61,000 fine and look forward to receiving the sum in full.

 

:levein_interesting:

Edited by Cade
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Class of 75
30 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

I'm not getting distracted by Spanish issues - simply not relevant.  

 

Incidentally what makes you think the EU would support a country espousing its Nationalism?....what are you talking about. I am simply talking about whether or not Scotland wished to retain it's EU membership , and if so, what it wants to do about it. 

 

Brexit is a mess because -

there was election fraud

Leave campaign refused to debate actual details (they saw how SNP got kebabed on that)

No one voted to be worse off

Immigration - will still be out of control. UK still has more from outside EU , while EU levels continue to fall

We are NOT  "taking back control"

we are paying £39BILLION just to leave 

 

And finally, even businesses can see the writing on the wall - a massive exodus of cash  and a slow but sure loss of jobs.  The Japanese govt thru Nikkei made a statement about the Sunderland car plant jobs loss that it's statement "should not be taken at face  value".  Happy days. The **** tried to save face with May. 

So we could leave on "no deal" , which if it's half as good as  it's now being painted , should make anyone question why May has tried against insurmountable odds to avoid it. 

Yeah, Brexit is a mess but everyone wants to blame the politicians because no one got what they wanted or were led to believe would be delivered when some it was NEVER going to be delivered. The UK wanted a fantasy "bespoke" deal that simply does not exist and was never going to be achievable. Ask the Swiss. 

 

But we had a referendum and now the facts of the matter are studiously ignored. 

 

 

 

If you are talking about Scotland joining the EU you are also talking about an Independent Scotland. Catalonia is not a distraction it is relevant. Scotland being Independent is exerting Nationalism, how else would you paint it? The EU does not like it, it is against their ethos. In what way was there election fraud? Immigration is an emotive issue and no government has been able to meet targets despite it being promised as part of the Leave campaign. However, you could argue EU migration is down due to uncertainty over Brexit. The most worrying thing here is that the result people voted for is not going to be delivered as you state. If not what is the point in voting? 

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6 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

If you are talking about Scotland joining the EU you are also talking about an Independent Scotland. Catalonia is not a distraction it is relevant. Scotland being Independent is exerting Nationalism, how else would you paint it? The EU does not like it, it is against their ethos. In what way was there election fraud? Immigration is an emotive issue and no government has been able to meet targets despite it being promised as part of the Leave campaign. However, you could argue EU migration is down due to uncertainty over Brexit. The most worrying thing here is that the result people voted for is not going to be delivered as you state. If not what is the point in voting? 

 

 

That happens at nearly every single election. What is the point in continuing to vote in elections by that logic?

 

 

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Impact assessment on the newly started EU/Vietnam trade deal on UK citizens.

 

Short version: It's good for us as EU citizens.

 

Oops.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/impact-assessment-of-the-eu-vietnam-free-trade-agreement-on-the-uk

 

AS an aside, Liam Fox has only signed 8 deals in three years. We were supposed to be leaving today.

Edited by Cade
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27 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

If you are talking about Scotland joining the EU you are also talking about an Independent Scotland. Catalonia is not a distraction it is relevant. Scotland being Independent is exerting Nationalism, how else would you paint it? The EU does not like it, it is against their ethos. In what way was there election fraud? Immigration is an emotive issue and no government has been able to meet targets despite it being promised as part of the Leave campaign. However, you could argue EU migration is down due to uncertainty over Brexit. The most worrying thing here is that the result people voted for is not going to be delivered as you state. If not what is the point in voting? 

You're ok with the UK restoring some kid on lack of sovereignty, but when Scotland wants real restoration of sovereignty. Na.  The UK is a union of unequals, 1 nation dictates to the other 3.  The EU is 27 equals, no matter the size and wealth.

 

Brits hate the EU because they don't own it. The UK has a currency union, open borders, free trade and movement of people, yet it's the devil's work when someone else does it. Hypocrites.

Edited by ri Alban
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Watt-Zeefuik
27 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

If you are talking about Scotland joining the EU you are also talking about an Independent Scotland. Catalonia is not a distraction it is relevant. Scotland being Independent is exerting Nationalism, how else would you paint it? The EU does not like it, it is against their ethos. In what way was there election fraud? Immigration is an emotive issue and no government has been able to meet targets despite it being promised as part of the Leave campaign. However, you could argue EU migration is down due to uncertainty over Brexit. The most worrying thing here is that the result people voted for is not going to be delivered as you state. If not what is the point in voting? 

 

Already mentioned on this thread but:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2019/mar/29/brexit-debate-latest-developments-live-news-may-at-risk-of-fresh-defeat-as-mps-debate-withdrawal-agreement-for-third-time-live-news?page=with:block-5c9e5cede4b0b4d18bde2b04#block-5c9e5cede4b0b4d18bde2b04

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10 minutes ago, Cade said:

Impact assessment on the newly started EU/Vietnam trade deal on UK citizens.

 

Short version: It's good for us as EU citizens.

 

Oops.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/impact-assessment-of-the-eu-vietnam-free-trade-agreement-on-the-uk

 

AS an aside, Liam Fox has only signed 8 deals in three years. We were supposed to be leaving today.

 

Those 8 deals are significantly less comprehensive than the deals they were supposed to replicate as well.      In some deals,    because of consequent onging movement of goods into the EU once exported by the UK,    our exports are much less competitive than they were.      

 

Fox and the rest of them are charlatans.

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i wish jj was my dad
1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

Scenes indeed! That's definitely out of left field.

Positive development.

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Francis Albert
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1 hour ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Why ? Brexiters still get what they want, no ? 

 Because I believe they are being whipped into a frenzy by people saying they aren't getting what they want

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1 hour ago, Cade said:

SO what?

Let the police get tore in about them and break a few heads.

The UK is not run by mob rule.

 

Again fair point. But in a civilised society you hope it does not 

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That ***** Bernard Jenkin just said "if they have another referendum without leave on the ballot paper it will be a catastrophe".

 

:cornette:

 

Aye.   They'll not have leave on the ballot right enough.     

 

REMAIN

REMAIN MORE

 

Arsehole exaggerated rhetoric that ends up as hysteria.

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AlphonseCapone
2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

That ***** Bernard Jenkin just said "if they have another referendum without leave on the ballot paper it will be a catastrophe".

 

:cornette:

 

Aye.   They'll not have leave on the ballot right enough.     

 

REMAIN

REMAIN MORE

 

Arsehole exaggerated rhetoric that ends up as hysteria.

 

:rofl: what a head banger. 

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1 hour ago, Class of 75 said:

If you are talking about Scotland joining the EU you are also talking about an Independent Scotland. Catalonia is not a distraction it is relevant. Scotland being Independent is exerting Nationalism, how else would you paint it? The EU does not like it, it is against their ethos. In what way was there election fraud? Immigration is an emotive issue and no government has been able to meet targets despite it being promised as part of the Leave campaign. However, you could argue EU migration is down due to uncertainty over Brexit. The most worrying thing here is that the result people voted for is not going to be delivered as you state. If not what is the point in voting? 

Relevant for your distraction. 

"Nationalism".....deliberately inflammatory statement. I paint it as a an ideal heading towards independence & statehood. 

The EU does not like it, it is against their ethos...in your opinion , again a distraction and inflammatory. Balkan states went for statehood & independence , achieved it and joined the EU. You're talking nonsense. 

 

If you don't know about election fraud then you're either a liar or living in a bubble. Google it, stop wasting my time. 

 

Migration - argue what you like - it's down and the IMPORTANT part , which you chose to ignore, is that part which is under govt control continues to increase. As for EU immigration - there's already legislation available for any EU country to implement to control this but for some weird reason the UK never did.  Weirdly, for all the rhetoric and focus on migration , no one ever mentioned the legislation was there, the UK just didn't implement it. 

 

Your last question totally misses the point - it's not about the act of voting per se (clearly that is important)   it's about setting out & campaigning for what you believe in - and the Leave campaign absolutely refused to do this. Leave campaigners cannot now say they're not getting what they voted for when it was a deliberate act to avoid stating this in the first place.

 

A "bespoke" deal was never defined, never achievable (ask the Swiss, they caved in to get access to the single market) and was built on rhetoric  not an achievable plan.  No one wants to acknowledge any of this - they all just want to blame parliament. 

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43 minutes ago, LeftBack said:

 Because I believe they are being whipped into a frenzy by people saying they aren't getting what they want

Cheer's: this is my point. Just watching C4 news now and it's heading for a repeat of what happened in Glasgow during the indy ref when the UJ carrying mob attacked indy supporters.  

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Captain Sausage
2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Jon Snow.

 

"What a day.   I've never seen so many white people in one place".

 

:cornette:

 

Wut the?

 

I know. Picked up on that. Father in law just asked ‘what if he’d said that about another race? He’d be sacked already.’

 

What an arsehole. I’m no leave supporter, but that comment was clearly aimed at leave voters all being white, with the implication they’re all EDL racists. 

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Just goes to show exactly what those who voted to remain said...those wanting Brexit had no idea what that meant nor do our MP's

 

Those who voted to leave should be hanging their heads in shame.

 

If you are on the side of Farage and Robinson then you are on the wrong side..imagine being teamed up with those 2.

 

Lets revote, stop the madness and ensure none of those have any influence in the UK for decades to come

 

Hardly anyone turned up for this great march we were promised and Farage once more made another statement that has turned out to be nonsense

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Class of 75
1 hour ago, Taffin said:

 

 

That happens at nearly every single election. What is the point in continuing to vote in elections by that logic?

 

 

But elections are not binary votes

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Class of 75
16 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Relevant for your distraction. 

"Nationalism".....deliberately inflammatory statement. I paint it as a an ideal heading towards independence & statehood. 

The EU does not like it, it is against their ethos...in your opinion , again a distraction and inflammatory. Balkan states went for statehood & independence , achieved it and joined the EU. You're talking nonsense. 

 

If you don't know about election fraud then you're either a liar or living in a bubble. Google it, stop wasting my time. 

 

Migration - argue what you like - it's down and the IMPORTANT part , which you chose to ignore, is that part which is under govt control continues to increase. As for EU immigration - there's already legislation available for any EU country to implement to control this but for some weird reason the UK never did.  Weirdly, for all the rhetoric and focus on migration , no one ever mentioned the legislation was there, the UK just didn't implement it. 

 

Your last question totally misses the point - it's not about the act of voting per se (clearly that is important)   it's about setting out & campaigning for what you believe in - and the Leave campaign absolutely refused to do this. Leave campaigners cannot now say they're not getting what they voted for when it was a deliberate act to avoid stating this in the first place.

 

A "bespoke" deal was never defined, never achievable (ask the Swiss, they caved in to get access to the single market) and was built on rhetoric  not an achievable plan.  No one wants to acknowledge any of this - they all just want to blame parliament. 

I am not attempting to waste your time, I am arguing my point. Just because you don't agree doesn't mean I am wrong or you can dismiss me out of hand. I have a Masters Degree in politics and have studied the EU and its mechanics at length. I think you need to have a good look at the EU and what it wants to achieve before accusing me of wasting your time. If you don't like answers don't ask the question. 

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6 minutes ago, Captain Sausage said:

 

I know. Picked up on that. Father in law just asked ‘what if he’d said that about another race? He’d be sacked already.’

 

What an arsehole. I’m no leave supporter, but that comment was clearly aimed at leave voters all being white, with the implication they’re all EDL racists. 

Well some are racist, but an interesting survey done by the various action groups around Grenfell found that many of the Windrush generation and their children and Grand children voted or supported leave. Sometimes the broad brushstrokes used to profile how demographics voted miss key trends within it. 

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Class of 75
38 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

You rounded up.

From what? 17.4 miliion was just short of 52%. I can't explain it any other way. 

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Class of 75
1 hour ago, Ugly American said:

I wouldn't believe anything written in the guardian. Anyway as stated before surely as an American you would be all for the UK declaring it's own independence? 

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AlphonseCapone
9 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

I wouldn't believe anything written in the guardian. Anyway as stated before surely as an American you would be all for the UK declaring it's own independence? 

 

Mate, you believe in Brexit and I genuinely respect that as your right. But do you really subscribe to this whole UK becoming independent rhetoric? 

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Of course not every Leave voter is a racist.

That's a ludicrous assumption.

 

But it's also safe to say that not many racists would have voted Remain.

Edited by Cade
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Watt-Zeefuik
19 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

I wouldn't believe anything written in the guardian. Anyway as stated before surely as an American you would be all for the UK declaring it's own independence? 

 

The Guardian is directly quoting a court settlement in which Vote Leave drops its appeal and admits breaking the law during the vote. You can argue (as they have) that the lawbreaking didn't meaningfully change the vote, but it is now established court fact that it occurred.

 

As an American it matters very little to me directly or materially what the UK does. The most it will do is drive the UK closer to the US, force you to lower your health and safety regulations to get more favorable deals with us, and probably create an even deeper bond between your wretched PM and our corrupt and cruel President. So I can't see that as much of a win.

 

As a researcher who studies rural Scotland, it's impossible not to see how bad Brexit will be for the highlands and islands of Scotland, and how the only people who will benefit from it are grifters and arseholes who capitalize on panic, ignorance, and shortages. So my feelings there naturally go against it.

 

And from an analytical point of view, all of the rhetoric behind Leave has been so ungrounded from history and reality and soaked in self-absorbed myths -- Britain hasn't basically never thrived as an "independent" entity, not since before 1066. It's always been either deeply tied to the continent or engaged in empire. The notion of Britain "going it alone" is farcical as a historical conceit and absurd in the current context. I can't say the EU has been some bag of glories and it's filled to the brim with its own irrational and ahistorical conceits, but they are patently more sane than the Leave nonsense. 

 

I was in Edinburgh on the evening of the Brexit vote -- most Americans (including me) assumed as soon as it happened, based on the breakdown of the vote, that the natural endgame would be an independent Scotland re-attaching itself to the EU. That was obviously naive of a lot of internal UK politics and anyone who claims to know what comes next is a liar or deluded, but that still seems like the most likely long-term outcome.

Edited by Ugly American
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  • davemclaren changed the title to Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

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