General Election

[maroonlegions]

Not quite the whole story.

 

Sinn Fein are coming under serious pressure from the South's Fianna Fail party who are threatening to stand against Sinn Fein in the North.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/fianna-f%C3%A1il-and-sinn-f%C3%A9in-trade-insults-over-westminster-abstention-1.3113941

 

And.

https://www.thesun.ie/news/1120381/fianna-fail-planning-to-take-on-sinn-fein-in-northern-ireland-election-with-several-politicians-interested-in-joining-them/

 

So Sinn Fein may indeed be forced to take up their seats in Westminster, not so really to oust May, but more probably to save their own seats from Fianna Fail.

 

It's an utter mess and is only going to get worse.

 

 

Seems that May has opened up a real nasty can or worms, time will tell though.

[maroonlegions]

They can use my money for whatever purpose they want.

 

All we have to do now is wait ... IndyRef 2 is coming ... If people can't see the warning signs emanating from a failing UK, then you're blind or ignorant.

 

Sturgeon is taking a period of reflection unlike Mooth who has already thrown her cards in and went full circle on her original position.  Absolute chancer.

 Aye trying to a deal with the DUP who ...

 

"Members of the DUP are known for their ultra conservative beliefs, including climate change denial, as well as for their evangelical Christian views of sexuality".

 

 The world is only 13,000 years old eh..

[Rudy T]

Your point is that the UK is failing because of the SNP's pursuit for a second independence referendum?

 

Chaos? Right then.

Been here and done this. Sturgeon demands indyref2 in light of Brexit result and says may doesn't have a mandate to lead us into Brexit. May calls GE. Many of the Scottish public vote according to their independence views. Tories win the most seats theyve had in 30 odd years, as a result those seats allowed the Tories to create this unholy alliance with the DUP.

 

Indyref2 and Sturgeons self interests kicked this off.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

... and whose first demand may be the return of the march through a catholic area where people have previously lost their lives in conflict.

 

There's a coalition party that you want aiding your government. Think even UKIP would give them a wide berth.

Incorrect. The Orange Order asked for that. The DUP won't push it at all.

[Bazzas right boot]

Bless. The Don has just realised that Corbyn wants the same in England and Wales that as has been implemented in Scotland for ages.

 

The proper definition of daft. Doesn't want it in Scotland, but wants it down South.

He's missing a brain, he literally contridicts himself all the time, he's not worth debating, it's like talking to a 8 year old or a ****ing trained monkey.

 

When you go through his posts, he generally makes no sense.

[deesidejambo]

The UK is failing because of Sturgeon calling for the possibility of a second independence referendum.

 

Holy ****.

 

 

The UK isn't failing.     It was you who said it is.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

You sure? I wouldn't be so certain Geoff.

The DUP are far savvier than that. You forget they are seasoned negotiators with the structure of NI politics.

[Bazzas right boot]

Been here and done this. Sturgeon demands indyref2 in light of Brexit result and says may doesn't have a mandate to lead us into Brexit. May calls GE. Many of the Scottish public vote according to their independence views. Tories win the most seats theyve had in 30 odd years, as a result those seats allowed the Tories to create this unholy alliance with the DUP.

 

Indyref2 and Sturgeons self interests kicked this off.

They could have voted labour.

[deesidejambo]

Every single aspect of the UK is failing.  What's good right now?

 

Employment rates are good?

 

And the weather is nice.

 

Today.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Seems that May has opened up a real nasty can or worms, time will tell though.

 

Not entirely it has to be said.

 

Fianna Fail was already planning on standing against Sinn Fein in the North before this election was called, however with Northern Ireland only electing MP's from either the DUP or Sinn Fein this has now put serious pressure on Sinn Fein to take up their seats in Westminster.

 

It's all to do with 'Brexit', in which Northern Ireland voted to Remain.

Sturgeon & the SNP moan and groan about having no say in the 'Brexit' process, at least they have MP's in Westminster who can raise issues, the people of Northern Ireland don't have that luxury.

 

The DUP campaigned and voted to leave the EU, whilst Sinn Fein campaigned to Remain, but because Sinn Fein don't take up their seats in Westminster the only representation Northern Ireland has in Westminster is from a party who voted to leave the EU and therefore only represents the 44% who voted to Leave, the majority 56% have no representation whatsoever now.

 

This is why Sinn Fein are under serious pressure to take up their seats in Westminster, to represent the majority of people of Northern Ireland who voted to Remain.

[deesidejambo]

ONS predicts that 1.7million are on zero-hour contracts.  Conflated.

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/articles/contractsthatdonotguaranteeaminimumnumberofhours/may2017

 

Glad the sun is shining - but inflation is still going to be 2.9% when it rains tomorrow!

 

The vast majority who are on zero hours want to keep it that way.   Google the Macdonalds exercise for an example.

 

I'm on zero-hours as are almost all the employees where I work.    My workplace would close tomorrow without them.

 

And Labour didn't specify what they would replace them with.   Any suggestions?

[Rudy T]

The UK is failing because of Sturgeon calling for the possibility of a second independence referendum.

 

Holy ****.

Open your eyes man!!!

 

Independence wasn't an issue for a long long time. We got a Scottish parliament and many Scots put their faith in the SNP to run the country using the devolved powers. They couldn't leave it alone however and pushed for indy...They got it and lost. The majority of Scottish people said no. What then happened was people like you and other obsessives couldn't accept that defeat and using the slightly disingenuous 45% mantra to continue to beat the drum relentlessly.

 

The SNPS record in power is questionable at best. Let me ask you this take indy away and would you vote for them based on the record in power.

 

Now many of the people who voted for them in the past have completely lost faith in them to govern and do not want indyref2. The minute Sturgeon forced through indyref2 the public stood up and said enough is enough and many against their own beliefs voted tactically to send the message to Sturgeon that we do not want another referendum and do not believe in independence, ffs how many of the last indy promises have been shot to bits already.

 

The result of that has lead to this ridiculous and frankly dangerous situation we are in. So yes dress it up how you like Sturgeon started this and we know have a country without any true leadership.

 

I don't expect you to compute this as you have become another blinded by a pipe dream which has little or no substance to it other than, eventually we might be better off...look at blah blah country.

[Maroon Sailor]

Easy to see who wears the trousers in the Murrell household. She's got him wrapped around her little finger.

[Rudy T]

They could have voted labour.

So why didn't they?? Indyref2 is your answer. You've all admitted the Scottish Tories had a one policy manifesto. So what does that tell you??

[reaths17]

Every single aspect of the UK is failing.  What's good right now

 

it depends who's eyes your lookin through.

 

its not only good but great that the people have put the SNP back in their place and the slope looks like its got a long way to go before it levels out.

 

on the flip side if you were chasing indy2 and supporting the "losers again" your gonna be pretty gutted

[Victorian]

So the government of no shame are going to cling to power. Every indication now points towards virtually their entire manifesto being dead as a doornail. They're going to cling on in order to do what?... to enact everyone else's manifestos. That in itself brings politics into shambolic disrepute.

 

Who are they representing? Not the voters of the parties who opposed them and their out of touch leader. Not their own voters either. Those people aint getting what was pledged in the campaign.

 

A despicable sham government with no ability to implement their principles... if they have any.

[Rudy T]

You're someone who thinks Sturgeon is responsible for the failure of the UK, it's you that is failing to compute something.

 

The SNP will always have independence in their manifesto, they just secured a majority in Holyrood, Council Elections and now Westminster. They clearly have the backing of Scotland to hold another, at this time. I'd vote for them any day of the week. And Sturgeon never forced through another referendum did she, it was proposed when the negotiations on Brexit were finalized.

 

And this "no one wants another referendum nonsense has to stop." The only poll showed that a majority wanted one when the terms of Brexit were known.

 

Would there have been a GE had Sturgeon not called out May regarding her mandate to lead?

 

Would the Tories have won so many seats had indyref2 not been on table?

 

Without those seats would the Tories be able to form a majority government with the DUP?

 

Who and what is at the root cause of this...??

 

Robertson and Salmond gone...there's a clue in that to public opinion.

 

4 constituencies voted Yes...only 4 and the only one outside of the Glasgow region was Dundee. If the snp can continue to claim victories in FPTP contests then they were royally humped in the referendum.

 

So again. We are about to experience a potential meltdown in the UK and the root cause was Sturgeons self interest.

[Doogz]

You're someone who thinks Sturgeon is responsible for the failure of the UK, it's you that is failing to compute something.

 

The SNP will always have independence in their manifesto, they just secured a majority in Holyrood, Council Elections and now Westminster.  They clearly have the backing of Scotland to hold another, at this time.  I'd vote for them any day of the week.  And Sturgeon never forced through another referendum did she, it was proposed when the negotiations on Brexit were finalized.

 

And this "no one wants another referendum nonsense has to stop."  The only poll showed that a majority wanted one when the terms of Brexit were known.

 

When was this ?

[reaths17]

So basically - **** EU citizens, rape victims, pensioners, the disabled, the unemployed, and the NHS, because the most important factor here is that the SNP loses a few seats.

you asked what is good, I gave you an example, I didn't mention anything else. climb oot your pram and get your dummy back.

[Bowmans_Boot]

It's all to do with 'Brexit', in which Northern Ireland voted to Remain.

Sturgeon & the SNP moan and groan about having no say in the 'Brexit' process, at least they have MP's in Westminster who can raise issues, the people of Northern Ireland don't have that luxury.

Their choice, though. Everybody who votes for Sinn Fein knows fully that they will not take up their seats. If voters wish their MP to have a voice at Westminster then it is rather silly to vote for Sinn Fein.

 

The SDLP also campaigned to remain in Europe, so there was another viable option.

[Doogz]

Yes, unionists have finally worked out how to tactfully vote.

 

What do you think was the motivation for unionists voting tactically ?

[reaths17]

You're disregarding every present ill in society and celebrating a victory on the back of a party losing a couple of seats.  Bravo.

every present ill in Britain is the same in Scotland only some like the economy/police Scotland are performing worse and your beloved SNP have sat on their hands playing grievance politics as its happened.

 

you can blame the tories all you want but most people are waking up to the fact that the SNP are a 1 goal only cult, they have no intention of doing anything about societies ills that your going on about, wheres the grievance angle to that.

[Toggie88]

So the government of no shame are going to cling to power. Every indication now points towards virtually their entire manifesto being dead as a doornail. They're going to cling on in order to do what?... to enact everyone else's manifestos. That in itself brings politics into shambolic disrepute.

 

Who are they representing? Not the voters of the parties who opposed them and their out of touch leader. Not their own voters either. Those people aint getting what was pledged in the campaign.

 

A despicable sham government with no ability to implement their principles... if they have any.

 

Completely. To be fair to her, it wasn't all started with May. Lets not forget the only reason we're in this mess is because of Cameron's gamble with the EU ref in the first place. There was no reason for a referendum, no real demand for a referendum when Cameron put it his manifesto - scared of backbench tories and losing support to UKIP. 

 

As soon as it all went tits up, he immediately washed his hands of it all and went on to the next pay day. Osbourne the exact same, except he's continued to encourage the car crash and is literally standing back and laughing right now. 

 

I'm not saying that all Tories are like this - I know some very respectable Tories (Miles Briggs MSP) being one - but many, Eton/Oxbridge-types treat it like a the Commons and the country like a student union. Do they want to do a good job? Yeah. Do they ultimately care if it all goes horribly wrong? Nah, as long as they're money or safety isn't in jeopardy, then no big deal. 

 

Feudalism might be gone, but it's still there in the mind in the country. 

[Rudy T]

Answers above to the first two, the rest is the most insane rambling ***** I've heard since 2014.

Only to you because you're blinded by a cult.

 

Tell me what would independence actually bring us...tangible not airy fairy theory?

[Doogz]

The economy aye?

 

Do you stop and think before you post?

 

Sorry, but is that the answer to my question ?

You think unionists voted tactically because of the economy - wouldn't the economy be a motivating factor for both unionists and nationalists ?

 

Edit - Just saw your other reply so assume your earlier response wasn't the answer to my question.

[Rudy T]

No idea, ask one. But unionists have finally worked out tactical voting, that much is true.

Have you asked yourself why??

[brunstanejambo]

They clearly have the backing of Scotland to hold another, at this time.

 

You really do need to brush up on your facts before posting.

 

2014 Independence Referendum - SNP (Yes) vote share was 44.7%

2017 Scottish Council Elections - SNP vote share (1st preference) was 32.3%

2017 Scottish General Election - SNP vote share was 36.9%

 

The majority of voters in Scotland are not backing the SNP (or their obsession with Independence).

 

Granted, a large proportion of the population back them - and said large proportion of the population would like independence.

However, it is nowhere near the majority of people - and it is a mile away from having clear backing to hold another referendum.

[Victorian]

Completely. To be fair to her, it wasn't all started with May. Lets not forget the only reason we're in this mess is because of Cameron's gamble with the EU ref in the first place. There was no reason for a referendum, no real demand for a referendum when Cameron put it his manifesto - scared of backbench tories and losing support to UKIP.

 

As soon as it all went tits up, he immediately washed his hands of it all and went on to the next pay day. Osbourne the exact same, except he's continued to encourage the car crash and is literally standing back and laughing right now.

 

I'm not saying that all Tories are like this - I know some very respectable Tories (Miles Briggs MSP) being one - but many, Eton/Oxbridge-types treat it like a the Commons and the country like a student union. Do they want to do a good job? Yeah. Do they ultimately care if it all goes horribly wrong? Nah, as long as they're money or safety isn't in jeopardy, then no big deal.

 

Feudalism might be gone, but it's still there in the mind in the country.

I agree.

 

There's a fundamental question of legitimacy here. An alternative cross-party alliance don't have the numbers to form a stable government. Because of the never ending split in the Tory party over Brexit, they themselves can only form the flimsiest possible government and even that is severely handicapped in terms of their Brexit strategy. The spectre of revolt will always be there as both extremes will be hard to please at the same time.

 

Until Brexit has been fully negotiated and implemented, the only stable, legitimate government should be a grand coalition with full colaboration right up to cabinet position level.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Completely. To be fair to her, it wasn't all started with May. Lets not forget the only reason we're in this mess is because of Cameron's gamble with the EU ref in the first place. There was no reason for a referendum, no real demand for a referendum when Cameron put it his manifesto - scared of backbench tories and losing support to UKIP. 

 

 

The blame or at least a portion of it could also be laid at the EU's door, if Cameron had came back from Brussels with at least some sort of concessions from Juncker & co instead of being laughed out the door, then maybe the public wouldn't have been so anti-EU at the referendum.

 

There isn't one single reason or factor of why we are at this juncture here and now, it's been a whole series of events over the last few years which have lead us to this point now.

But that's the same with everything it's full of if buts and maybes.

[brunstanejambo]

If they put it in their manifesto, and win a majority of seats, they have the backing of the populace.

 

Populace - noun - the inhabitants of a place; population.

 

So you think that by having the most of the seats in parliament this gives them the backing of the population. The majority or whom have voted against them in the last 3 elections?

 

By this logic, the Conservatives have the backing to do everything in their manifesto. Even though the majority of the UK population voted against them???

Yikes!!

[Rudy T]

I've only ever voted Labour.

 

Independence would bring control to those who care about Scotland, and its future.

So you voted for a unionist party??

 

And then what?? Don't sound bite Sturgeon and Co. Who gets control and how do they run the country and with what??

[Thunderstruck]

If they put it in their manifesto, and win a majority of seats, they have the backing of the populace.

It was in the Scottish Conservative and Scottish Labour manifestos and they between them got 63% SIXTY THREE PERCENT of the vote.

 

Clear message delivered.

[SwindonJambo]

 

 

If they put it in their manifesto, and win a majority of seats, they have the backing of the populace.

 

Thay have a majority of the seats with the votes of just over a third of the voting populace due to the quirks and vagaries of First Past the Post. (which I am opposed to, regardless of what winner it delivers).

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Their choice, though. Everybody who votes for Sinn Fein knows fully that they will not take up their seats. If voters wish their MP to have a voice at Westminster then it is rather silly to vote for Sinn Fein.

 

The SDLP also campaigned to remain in Europe, so there was another viable option.

 

I'll bet you nobody even thought about that or the situation which has ultimately transpired, when they cast their vote, and why would they?

 

Fianna Fail would love for Sinn Fein to take their seats at Westminster, the political capital Fianna Fail could achieve within the Nationalist community in Northern Ireland would be worth it's weigh in Gold.

[AlimOzturk]

Honestly, I never thought the Tories could stump any lower. Low and behold.

 

Hold your head in shame all you Tory supporters. You really have ****ed this country up with a cross of a box.

 

Oh..but democracy, my rights, indyref2 blah ****ing blah.

[reaths17]

The economy aye?

 

Do you stop and think before you post?

unlike you I have no threat of being thrown out the cult for thinking for myself. I have no party loyalty and think there isn't a great deal between any of the politicians we're forced to vote for.

 

the Scottish economy is slowing faster than the rest of Britain the last I heard.

 

what have the SNP done for us ? kept their hands warm sitting on them doesn't count as a reply, the cult don't do answers so don't sweat on it.

[Space Mackerel]

It was in the Scottish Conservative and Scottish Labour manifestos and they between them got 63% SIXTY THREE PERCENT of the vote.

 

Clear message delivered.

Except this was a GE, not a vote about Scottish independence.

[JamboX2]

Shadow Cabinet reshuffle mooted for tomorrow. Few jobs to fill due to resignations before the election. Will be interesting to see what happens.

[JamboX2]

Up until Corbyn, they were the same party, good point.

[Rudy T]

Not voted for them since 2010, voted for no other party since.

Your all over the shop mate.

[Rudy T]

Except this was a GE, not a vote about Scottish independence.

Which they lost. So if the only gauge is a vote on independence...They need to get back in their box.

[jambos are go!]

Except this was a GE, not a vote about Scottish independence.

What about the clear message delivered in the Referendum less than 3 years ago that the SNP think can be revisited after the Holyrood welection in which they got a lot less than 50% of the vote?

[Space Mackerel]

Which they lost. So if the only gauge is a vote on independence...They need to get back in their box.

The SNP lost?

 

What school did you go to?

[maroonlegions]

Not entirely it has to be said.

 

Fianna Fail was already planning on standing against Sinn Fein in the North before this election was called, however with Northern Ireland only electing MP's from either the DUP or Sinn Fein this has now put serious pressure on Sinn Fein to take up their seats in Westminster.

 

It's all to do with 'Brexit', in which Northern Ireland voted to Remain.

Sturgeon & the SNP moan and groan about having no say in the 'Brexit' process, at least they have MP's in Westminster who can raise issues, the people of Northern Ireland don't have that luxury.

 

The DUP campaigned and voted to leave the EU, whilst Sinn Fein campaigned to Remain, but because Sinn Fein don't take up their seats in Westminster the only representation Northern Ireland has in Westminster is from a party who voted to leave the EU and therefore only represents the 44% who voted to Leave, the majority 56% have no representation whatsoever now.

 

This is why Sinn Fein are under serious pressure to take up their seats in Westminster, to represent the majority of people of Northern Ireland who voted to Remain.

 

 

 

Not entirely it has to be said.

 

Fianna Fail was already planning on standing against Sinn Fein in the North before this election was called, however with Northern Ireland only electing MP's from either the DUP or Sinn Fein this has now put serious pressure on Sinn Fein to take up their seats in Westminster.

 

It's all to do with 'Brexit', in which Northern Ireland voted to Remain.

Sturgeon & the SNP moan and groan about having no say in the 'Brexit' process, at least they have MP's in Westminster who can raise issues, the people of Northern Ireland don't have that luxury.

 

The DUP campaigned and voted to leave the EU, whilst Sinn Fein campaigned to Remain, but because Sinn Fein don't take up their seats in Westminster the only representation Northern Ireland has in Westminster is from a party who voted to leave the EU and therefore only represents the 44% who voted to Leave, the majority 56% have no representation whatsoever now.

 

This is why Sinn Fein are under serious pressure to take up their seats in Westminster, to represent the majority of people of Northern Ireland who voted to Remain.

May has by definition started a process  of what i believe is one  that also incorporates  "trust" between Sinn Fein and the DUP.

 

That trust will now be under scrutiny, she has opened that can on that part alone. 

 

This process  and the succeeding coming days/weeks/months is crucial to not only the "Friday Agreement" but peace as we now know it in NI.

 

In my opinion that peace and the Friday Agreement should never have been put in to disrepute or tampered with, but May has head banged in to it and i do feel that there are things that are now moving behind the political scenes that cannot be underdone, trust is one of them and so is religion, which has always been the petrol on the fire of hate in NI.

 

 

Its has begun, the seeds of suspicion, and non-trustworthy  have been planted by Mays actions. 

 

 

This below from the Scotsman is the crucial part from that article from the link below.

 

 

"They are adamant the UK government can no longer cast itself as a neutral facilitator in the process, given Theresa May?s intent to form a minority government with the help of a confidence-and-supply deal with the unionist party."

 

link;  http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/general-election/sinn-fein-say-they-will-not-take-up-westminster-seats-1-4474095

[Space Mackerel]

What about the clear message delivered in the Referendum less than 3 years ago that the SNP think can be revisited after the Holyrood welection in which they got a lot less than 50% of the vote?

What about the previous referendum that independence was won?

[Rudy T]

The SNP lost?

 

What school did you go to?

No the independence cult. Do keep up spacey

[Prince Buaben]

The Sun and Express are reporting that Sein Fien are coming over to take there seats in the commons.

[Rudy T]

I moved from Scotland in 2011, last voted Labour in 2010 when back home. I'm entitled a proxy vote but have not done so. Is that too difficult for you to understand?

So you don't live in Scotland but you'd vote for independence and stand back and let us mugs deal with the fall out?

[SwindonJambo]

The Sun and Express are reporting that Sein Fien are coming over to take there seats in the commons.

 

Really?  I can't see Sinn Fein swearing allegiance to the Queen under any circumstances but they might susprise me!  That would set the cat amongst the pigeons good and proper.

[Prince Buaben]

Really?  I can't see Sinn Fein swearing allegiance to the Queen under any circumstances but they might susprise me!  That would set the cat amongst the pigeons good and proper.

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3786046/sinn-feins-mps-fly-to-london-to-take-up-their-westminster-offices-sparking-fears-they-will-wreck-plans-for-a-tory-dup-majority/