General Election

[Pans Jambo]

Latest poll shows a third of yes voters want Indy 2 dropped

Nobody EVER asks me. Who do they poll? The queue in the chippy?

[Pans Jambo]

One is a defeated referendum proposal which has for political expediency has been brought back.

 

The other is a successful referendum proposal that all parties have accepted and are now debating the correct way forward.

Righto.

[Thunderstruck]

The Scots voted for it

A Scottish parliment majority voted for it

The SNP won the GE in Scotland with more seats than ALL the unionist parties put together.

 

Why should it be out of sight in your opinion?

 

Should Brexit now be halted because the evil lizard party lost some seats too???

Someone call Amnesty International - this torturing of logic has to be stopped.

[JamboX2]

Righto.

I don't see the error in what I've said. Every party elected to Westminster in some form accepts the result of the referendum on the EU. They all have different views on the next steps.

 

The SNP are pushing a second independence referendum against a bsck drop of losing the last one. 60% of Scottish voters voted for parties opposes to that at the General Election and the SNP were around 600 votes off losing a majority of Westminster seats in Scotland.

 

There's a clear difference in the two situations.

[JamboX2]

A hung parliament in Westminster has a more democratic mandate than a 35 to 24 vote up here.

 

Right you are.

Well yes it does. The SNP have no majoriry at Westminster and no longer a monopoly on speaking for Scotland.

 

Add to that they are a minority government in Holyrood and I don't quite get your line here.

 

Look at vote % - 60% of voters voted against the SNP.

Look at votes - around 600 votes between the SNP and losing another 6 or so seats, mainly to Labour.

[JamboX2]

All parties are debating correct way forward?

I must have missed something. :-/

Debating the right way to go. Lots of options on the table.

[Ricardo Shillyshally]

Indyref2 is like a cross between Rangers and Bruce Willis in the Sixth Sense.

[Pans Jambo]

I don't see the error in what I've said. Every party elected to Westminster in some form accepts the result of the referendum on the EU. They all have different views on the next steps.

 

The SNP are pushing a second independence referendum against a bsck drop of losing the last one. 60% of Scottish voters voted for parties opposes to that at the General Election and the SNP were around 600 votes off losing a majority of Westminster seats in Scotland.

 

 

 

There's a clear difference in the two situations.

As simple as possible:

 

The scots voted in majority 2 years ago in the GE for the SNP on a manifesto which included a 2nd referendum.

 

The Scottish Parliment voted the 2nd referendum through by majority.

 

The scots voted for the SNP again 2 weeks ago and the STILL have a majority.

 

Its a triple lock!

 

Furthermore, in Scotland the Unionist parties have only 24 seats collectively wheras the pro Indy SNP have 35 seats at Westminster.

 

Perhaps Unionism should be taken off the table

[Doogz]

The scots voted in majority 2 years ago in the GE for the SNP on a manifesto which included a 2nd referendum.

 

A couple of quotes from the SNP 2015 GE Manifesto:

 

"Delivering Home Rule for Scotland

The SNP will always support independence - but that is not what this election is about. It is about making Scotland stronger."

 

"We believe in independence but that is not what this election is about."

 

http://votesnp.com/docs/manifesto.pdf

[SwindonJambo]

As simple as possible:

The scots voted in majority 2 years ago in the GE for the SNP on a manifesto which included a 2nd referendum.

The Scottish Parliment voted the 2nd referendum through by majority.

The scots voted for the SNP again 2 weeks ago and the STILL have a majority.

Its a triple lock!

Furthermore, in Scotland the Unionist parties have only 24 seats collectively wheras the pro Indy SNP have 35 seats at Westminster.

Perhaps Unionism should be taken off the table

Doesn't tell the whole story. The SNP did indeed win a majority of seats on ftpt in multi-party elections. But their share of the popular vote fell sharply from 2 years ago, from 50% to 37%.

Independence is s binary vote, and that sharp fall to Just over a third of the vote is very telling.

[GBJambo]

As simple as possible:

 

The scots voted in majority 2 years ago in the GE for the SNP on a manifesto which included a 2nd referendum.

 

The Scottish Parliment voted the 2nd referendum through by majority.

 

The scots voted for the SNP again 2 weeks ago and the STILL have a majority.

 

Its a triple lock!

 

Furthermore, in Scotland the Unionist parties have only 24 seats collectively wheras the pro Indy SNP have 35 seats at Westminster.

 

Perhaps Unionism should be taken off the table

According to the snp a vote for the snp at the election was not about independence

Sturgeon changing her mind yet again

[Boris]

A couple of quotes from the SNP 2015 GE Manifesto:

 

"Delivering Home Rule for Scotland

The SNP will always support independence - but that is not what this election is about. It is about making Scotland stronger."

 

"We believe in independence but that is not what this election is about."

 

http://votesnp.com/docs/manifesto.pdf

 

And then at the 2016 Holyrood elections there was the quote about seeking to hold another referendum in the event of material change such as Scotland voting to remain in the EU but being taken out due to a Leave vote.

 

So, given the lack of direction post Brexit and then the increasingly Hard Brexit rhetoric coming from May and her Government, it seemed that access to the single market, in whichever form, was not goiing to happen.  So Sturgeon decides to go for an other indy ref.

 

That was, imo, perfectly fair.

 

Then we have a GE that we were told we wouldn't have, in a vain attempt for May to get a bigger majority (vain works both ways there btw!).  We all know the upshot of that.

 

With a concensus approach to Brexit being mooted, it would seem that tariff free trade or even single market access may still happen when we leave the EU.  This should (stress should) be enough for Sturgeon to backtrack on another indy ref.

 

So, I think she was right to call it based on material change, but in the months following it looks like there is further material change.  Not to mention the obvious political ramifications for her party.

 

If anything, Sturgeon has been consistent on her attitude and policy to Brexit unlike no other UK politician, with perhaps the expception of UKIP at the other end of the spectrum.

 

But should brexit end up a shambles, I can't see another indy ref NOT happening.

[Pans Jambo]

According to the snp a vote for the snp at the election was not about independence

Sturgeon changing her mind yet again

Im not Sturgeon mate.

 

I'm answering you lizard voters and your obsession with everything SNP/Independence.

 

Fact is, every leaflet I got pushed through my letterbox in the run up to the 'I will get a 100 seat majority billy big baws' election mentioned Indy ref 2 many times on every leaflet from the Lizard party, the Labour Party and the Lib Dems. The SNP leaflet didnt even mention it once! Not once! Lizards mentioned it 23 times on an A5 bit of paper! 23 Times!!!!

 

All the other parties bang on about it as does the Lizard ran MSM in fact, Sturgeon is being badgered even NOW to discuss Indy by the MSM.

 

Would behoove the lizards to get on with the day job & get the deal signed with the anti abortion, close Sundays for church, rebuild a hard border, bigot/Orange Lodge party no?

 

Edit: How will the Scottish Lizard leader being gay and all cope with dealing with the DUP/Orangemen from N.I.? Given their well known opinions on homosexuality?

Her boss sells arms to the Saudis who like to push gay people from tall buildings. Lizard hypocrite.

[Space Mackerel]

Well yes it does. The SNP have no majoriry at Westminster and no longer a monopoly on speaking for Scotland.

 

Add to that they are a minority government in Holyrood and I don't quite get your line here.

 

Look at vote % - 60% of voters voted against the SNP.

Look at votes - around 600 votes between the SNP and losing another 6 or so seats, mainly to Labour.

Jim Sillars was interviewed on tv the other day. He said his 3 independence supporting grandchildren voted for Corbyn.

 

So this percentage you bang on about isn't exactly true.

[jack D and coke]

Im not Sturgeon mate.

 

I'm answering you lizard voters and your obsession with everything SNP/Independence.

 

Fact is, every leaflet I got pushed through my letterbox in the run up to the 'I will get a 100 seat majority billy big baws' election mentioned Indy ref 2 many times on every leaflet from the Lizard party, the Labour Party and the Lib Dems. The SNP leaflet didnt even mention it once! Not once! Lizards mentioned it 23 times on an A5 bit of paper! 23 Times!!!!

 

All the other parties bang on about it as does the Lizard ran MSM in fact, Sturgeon is being badgered even NOW to discuss Indy by the MSM.

 

Would behoove the lizards to get on with the day job & get the deal signed with the anti abortion, close Sundays for church, rebuild a hard border, bigot/Orange Lodge party no?

 

Edit: How will the Scottish Lizard leader being gay and all cope with dealing with the DUP/Orangemen from N.I.? Given their well known opinions on homosexuality?

Her boss sells arms to the Saudis who like to push gay people from tall buildings. Lizard hypocrite.

It's definitely been a tactic of the other parties to bash you over the head with Indy 2 to the point everybody was sick of hearing about it. Keep repeating it until you just couldn't bear it.

I can't remember another thing coming out of Davidson's gub and boy did she crank it up after brexit. It actually started to amuse me how many times she brought it up.

[Doogz]

And then at the 2016 Holyrood elections there was the quote about seeking to hold another referendum in the event of material change such as Scotland voting to remain in the EU but being taken out due to a Leave vote. Not disputing that at all - but that isn't the issue I was replying to. It wasn't part of the 2015 GE manifesto as had been claimed.

 

So, given the lack of direction post Brexit and then the increasingly Hard Brexit rhetoric coming from May and her Government, it seemed that access to the single market, in whichever form, was not goiing to happen.  So Sturgeon decides to go for an other indy ref.

 

That was, imo, perfectly fair.

 

Then we have a GE that we were told we wouldn't have, in a vain attempt for May to get a bigger majority (vain works both ways there btw!).  We all know the upshot of that.

 

With a concensus approach to Brexit being mooted, it would seem that tariff free trade or even single market access may still happen when we leave the EU. As I've stated before - I hope this is the case, but how much of that the UK can influence and how much will be dictated by the EU remains to be seen. This should (stress should) be enough for Sturgeon to backtrack on another indy ref.

 

So, I think she was right to call it based on material change, but in the months following it looks like there is further material change.  I think she was right to mention it & that the SNP Scottish election Manifesto gave them a mandate - but in my opinion it would have been far better for everyone if they had waited until the Brexit negotiations were nearing conclusion before they pushed for it.

Not to mention the obvious political ramifications for her party.

 

If anything, Sturgeon has been consistent on her attitude and policy to Brexit unlike no other UK politician, with perhaps the expception of UKIP at the other end of the spectrum.

 

But should brexit end up a shambles, I can't see another indy ref NOT happening.

[SwindonJambo]

Jim Sillars was interviewed on tv the other day. He said his 3 independence supporting grandchildren voted for Corbyn.

 

So this percentage you bang on about isn't exactly true.

There are also people who vote SNP but don't want indy so the lines are blurred. The SNP vote has fallen sharply since 2015. The threat of another indyref so soon after the last one is undoubtedly a factor and Sturgeon readily acknowledges that.

[Space Mackerel]

It's definitely been a tactic of the other parties to bash you over the head with Indy 2 to the point everybody was sick of hearing about it. Keep repeating it until you just couldn't bear it.

I can't remember another thing coming out of Davidson's gub and boy did she crank it up after brexit. It actually started to amuse me how many times she brought it up.

Reporting Scotland is a prime example of repeating something till it becomes nauseous. Watched last night for a giggle and that's all they bash on about. Had to switch it over after 5 mins.

 

Ruth Davidson hasn't got any policies, well, when Theresa May flips flops down South she has.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Space Mackerel]

There are also people who vote SNP but don't want indy so the lines are blurred. The SNP vote has fallen sharply since 2015. The threat of another indyref so soon after the last one is undoubtedly a factor and Sturgeon readily acknowledges that.

So let's gets this straight, there's been more tactical voting, more MSM bias than ever, the massive Corbyn effect and now there's the 37% of hardcore SNP voters who don't back Indy now?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Boris]

 

And then at the 2016 Holyrood elections there was the quote about seeking to hold another referendum in the event of material change such as Scotland voting to remain in the EU but being taken out due to a Leave vote. Not disputing that at all - but that isn't the issue I was replying to. It wasn't part of the 2015 GE manifesto as had been claimed.

 

So, given the lack of direction post Brexit and then the increasingly Hard Brexit rhetoric coming from May and her Government, it seemed that access to the single market, in whichever form, was not goiing to happen.  So Sturgeon decides to go for an other indy ref.

 

That was, imo, perfectly fair.

 

Then we have a GE that we were told we wouldn't have, in a vain attempt for May to get a bigger majority (vain works both ways there btw!).  We all know the upshot of that.

 

With a concensus approach to Brexit being mooted, it would seem that tariff free trade or even single market access may still happen when we leave the EU. As I've stated before - I hope this is the case, but how much of that the UK can influence and how much will be dictated by the EU remains to be seen. This should (stress should) be enough for Sturgeon to backtrack on another indy ref.

 

So, I think she was right to call it based on material change, but in the months following it looks like there is further material change.  I think she was right to mention it & that the SNP Scottish election Manifesto gave them a mandate - but in my opinion it would have been far better for everyone if they had waited until the Brexit negotiations were nearing conclusion before they pushed for it.

Not to mention the obvious political ramifications for her party.

 

If anything, Sturgeon has been consistent on her attitude and policy to Brexit unlike no other UK politician, with perhaps the expception of UKIP at the other end of the spectrum.

 

But should brexit end up a shambles, I can't see another indy ref NOT happening.

 

 

Doogz, "n my opinion it would have been far better for everyone if they had waited until the Brexit negotiations were nearing conclusion before they pushed for it."

 

I thought that was when Sturgeon wanted the referendum anyway?

[Don Dan]

A new poll has emerged showing that well over half of Scottish voters want Nicola Sturgeon to abandon her plans for a second referendum on independence. A survey carried out by Survation for the Daily Record and released today shows that 60 per cent of people agree with the statement ?Sturgeon should remove the demand for Indyref2?. 27 per cent think that the First Minister is right to pursue another constitutional plebiscite, while 13 per cent are undecided. New Westminster leader describes Indyref2 as ?insurance policy? Ms Sturgeon has faced renewed calls to ditch her plans for another vote in the wake of the disappointing General Election results for her party. The SNP won the most votes and a majority of seats in Scotland, but lost 21 MPs amidst a backlash over the plans to re-run the 2014 referendum. Backing for independence has also fallen back, according to the poll, with 43 per cent now supporting Sturgeon?s dream, with 57 per cent opposed. Among those who voted Yes in 2014, the support for abandoning Indyref2 is even more stark, with 34 per cent of those polled agree

 

Read more at: http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/poll-60-want-nicola-sturgeon-to-ditch-indyref2-1-4476804

[reaths17]

So let's gets this straight, there's been more tactical voting, more MSM bias than ever, the massive Corbyn effect and now there's the 37% of hardcore SNP voters who don't back Indy now?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

you are so full of shit !

 

I don't watch/listen/read MSM

 

yet you know that they talk/write lies

 

you watched 5 mins before you turned it over, yet you know exactly what was said that you can critique the story.

 

"more MSM bias" yet you don't watch/listen/read any of it.

 

jim sillars was on Tv, and you know how, I take it, it was all lies.

 

it's no wonder people are turning away from the SNP/independence with fools like you promoting them

[Doogz]

Doogz, "n my opinion it would have been far better for everyone if they had waited until the Brexit negotiations were nearing conclusion before they pushed for it."

 

I thought that was when Sturgeon wanted the referendum anyway?

 

She initially asked for the referendum in Autumn 2018 or spring 2019 and this was before Article 50 had even been triggered. The expectation is that the Brexit negotiations will take around 2 years to conclude & this could be extended :

To me it would have been more sensible to hold off and at least see how the negotiations were progressing before pushing for another referendum and adding further uncertainty for both UK and Scotland.

The actual referendum shouldn't take place until after Brexit is completed so the electorate have a better idea what they are choosing between.

[SwindonJambo]

So let's gets this straight, there's been more tactical voting, more MSM bias than ever, the massive Corbyn effect and now there's the 37% of hardcore SNP voters who don't back Indy now?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

All I said was that it isn't as clear cut as that. There are Unionists who vote SNP(Deeside!) & Nationalists who vote other than SNP. But all things equal, the SNP vote has fallen sharply in 2 years.

[JamboX2]

Jim Sillars was interviewed on tv the other day. He said his 3 independence supporting grandchildren voted for Corbyn.

 

So this percentage you bang on about isn't exactly true.

No it is right. A vote SNP is not for independence. Separate the two.

 

60% of voters voted AGAINST the SNP. Not independence.

 

The issues for the SNP are clearly:

 

1. Labour are attacking them to the left and eating into their left leaning independence supporters.

2. Tories are eating into their soft Yes who are centre-right whilst being staunchly pro-Union.

3. They're losing out to the LibDems where the LibDems previously did well.

 

So there are huge electoral issues facing the SNP. That's caused by their indyref2 declaration, their lackluster performance in office since 2015 and 16 and their lack of vision beyond being anti-Tory and anti-Union.

[JamboX2]

It's definitely been a tactic of the other parties to bash you over the head with Indy 2 to the point everybody was sick of hearing about it. Keep repeating it until you just couldn't bear it.

I can't remember another thing coming out of Davidson's gub and boy did she crank it up after brexit. It actually started to amuse me how many times she brought it up.

Thing is - read some press reports from these areas the SNP lost.

 

The Observer ran a story about Gordon going blue and those interviewed mentioned:

 

1. Special needs school closures in the area

2. An uniterested MP on local issues

3. CAP payment fiasco

4. Getting on with governing

 

 

And yes Indyref2 came up. But it's not alone in it's reasoning for some.

 

As Euan McColm said during the campaign -

the opposition parties ran 59 by-eletions.

 

May actually have a point there.

[Bindy Badgy]

Nobody EVER asks me. Who do they poll? The queue in the chippy?

Ashcroft Polls called me before Indyref. No idea how I was chosen.

[reaths17]

Ashcroft Polls called me before Indyref. No idea how I was chosen.

they only choose you if you have a blue flag in your window, so they can give Nicola summit to use for her grievance tactics

[Roxy Hearts]

It's definitely been a tactic of the other parties to bash you over the head with Indy 2 to the point everybody was sick of hearing about it. Keep repeating it until you just couldn't bear it.

I can't remember another thing coming out of Davidson's gub and boy did she crank it up after brexit. It actually started to amuse me how many times she brought it up.

Reminds me how easily duped people are.

[Craig Gordons Gloves]

A poll in the DR is not something i would rush to hang my hat on.

 

That being said, i'm a supporter of indy and would have voted yes had I been able to.  I'm also more aligned with the social policies of the SNP than most.  I also think that the indy2 chat should be shut down, the chance was there, it wasn't taken and i don't think having repeated referendums is going to change that much on that front.  

[GBJambo]

A poll in the DR is not something i would rush to hang my hat on.

 

That being said, i'm a supporter of indy and would have voted yes had I been able to. I'm also more aligned with the social policies of the SNP than most. I also think that the indy2 chat should be shut down, the chance was there, it wasn't taken and i don't think having repeated referendums is going to change that much on that front.

It wasn't - it was a poll conducted by the same company that produced the exit poll

[Space Mackerel]

It wasn't - it was a poll conducted by the same company that produced the exit poll

When did polls dictate democracy?

[GBJambo]

When did polls dictate democracy?

What?

[Space Mackerel]

What?

ARE YOU DEAF???????

 

WHEN DID POLLS BECOME DEMOCRATIC WAYS TO GOVERN COUNTRYS???????????

[Rudy T]

ARE YOU DEAF???????

 

WHEN DID POLLS BECOME DEMOCRATIC WAYS TO GOVERN COUNTRYS???????????

Here's a simple question for you. Indyref2 returns a NO...would you STF up about independence and accept it's unwanted??

 

I'm at the stage where I wish they'd just have it and get on with it.

[Space Mackerel]

Here's a simple question for you. Indyref2 returns a NO...would you STF up about independence and accept it's unwanted??

 

I'm at the stage where I wish they'd just have it and get on with it.

No.

[Rudy T]

No.

You need help.

[Thunderstruck]

When did polls dictate democracy?

When Ms Sturgeon announced that she would have another referendum when POLLING consistently showed 60% in favour of independence.

 

To make it easier for you to follow, the DEMOCRATIC process (the referendum) may or may not happen and the decision will depend on POLLING.

 

You're welcome.

[Space Mackerel]

When Ms Sturgeon announced that she would have another referendum when POLLING consistently showed 60% in favour of independence.

 

To make it easier for you to follow, the DEMOCRATIC process (the referendum) may or may not happen and the decision will depend on POLLING.

 

You're welcome.

Got any more polls from the Record, like Hollyoaks, Eastenders ones, X Factor, Britains Got Talent and such aye?

[deesidejambo]

Got any more polls from the Record, like Hollyoaks, Eastenders ones, X Factor, Britains Got Talent and such aye?

 

 

No -but these are audited reliable polls.

[Space Mackerel]

No -but these are audited reliable polls.

I know, but, there's a big massive elephant in the room ken.

 

Maybe Ruth and her Yoon followers have forgotten, I haven't.

 

[SwindonJambo]

I know, but, there's a big massive elephant in the room ken.

Maybe Ruth and her Yoon followers have forgotten, I haven't.

I don't think anyone, anywhere's forgotten about Brexit. It's a much bigger problem for Sturgeon than for "The Yoons". She jumped in with both feet, seizing on what she saw as an opportunity/excuse for another Indyref, only to find that support for Indy hasn't moved snd if anything has regressed slightly. And dare I repeat it but Scotland exports 4 times to rUK what it does to the EU, which receives a mere 16% of its exports. All of the evidence is that Brexit is making no material difference to people's Yes/No intentions.

 

Going round in circles, this has been done to death and beyond.

[deesidejambo]

I know, but, there's a big massive elephant in the room ken.

 

Maybe Ruth and her Yoon followers have forgotten, I haven't.

 

You are still keekin yourself over the Tories.

 

But at the next election it's Labour that are going to hammer you in the Central Scotland seats.

 

But you keep on about "Rooth".

 

Farewell Indy

[Pans Jambo]

You are still keekin yourself over the Tories.

 

But at the next election it's Labour that are going to hammer you in the Central Scotland seats.

 

But you keep on about "Rooth".

 

Farewell Indy

Who is it that loves bringing up indy?

It may be on the back burner but its not going anywhere.

THATS what the yoons & lizard voters are really afraid of.

I welcome a left leaning socialist Labour to batter the lizards into submission. Be better for society as a whole but how long would that ride last before the in-fighting starts & the Blairites call for Corbyn's head again? Then the lizards are back, then the Scots reject them again, then indy is pushed to the fore once more.

 

The FM has went dark on it but hey, was she not 'told' she should shut up about it & 'get on with the day job'?

Now that she has the MSM (& some on here) are ones continually banging on about it.

 

What are you/they keekin about???

[Space Mackerel]

LULZ

 

[Pans Jambo]

LULZ

 

Says it all. They really are lizards. As are the people who vote for them.

[Space Mackerel]

Says it all. They really are lizards. As are the people who vote for them.

Jim is the Chief Political correspondent for the FT by the way.

 

I doubt this is fake news

[AlimOzturk]

LULZ

 

Wait, he actually wrote that?

[Space Mackerel]

Wait, he actually wrote that?

That's the FT quoting a Tory he spoke to I think.

[reaths17]

Got any more polls from the Record, like Hollyoaks, Eastenders ones, X Factor, Britains Got Talent and such aye?

you only stop watching MSM to come on here and spout a loada pish, keep up the great work