Indy Ref Part Deux

[Trapper John McIntyre]

If someone could go back to the 2014 version and grab a few tripper quotes on how he hates tories. I'd go but I'm Scotland Yard on the thread.

 

Strange times breed strange bedfellows, eh? 

 

You should be careful. You may well associate with a lot of secret Tories yourself these days, Psychobabbleboy.

[Space Mackerel]

SNP have lost the support of many voters with their poor performance on key issues , the fact they went back on their once in a generation premise, the fact that Sturgeon is a dislikeable person, and to cut it short the majority of scots do not want indyref2 within the forseeable future but crack on and get a bloody nose .Those woofters outside parliament today probably convinced a few more undecided that snp is not the way forward.

You and your Yoon pals on here

 

[Trapper John McIntyre]

SNP have lost the support of many voters with their poor performance on key issues , the fact they went back on their once in a generation premise, the fact that Sturgeon is a dislikeable person, and to cut it short the majority of scots do not want indyref2 within the forseeable future but crack on and get a bloody nose .Those woofters outside parliament today probably convinced a few more undecided that snp is not the way forward.

Leftish London commentators, who swoon over the 'progressive' SNP, might want to consider this par from @RuthDavidsonMSP's #indyref2 speech.

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[Space Mackerel]

 

Leftish London commentators, who swoon over the 'progressive' SNP, might want to consider this par from @RuthDavidsonMSP's #indyref2 speech.

 

 

 

 

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4 replies, 1 being yours.

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[Trapper John McIntyre]

4 replies, 1 being yours.

14 retweets, 1 being yours.

16 likes, 1 being yours.

 

 

You can find it here too, Spunker

 

https://reaction.life/snp-not-scotland/

[AlphonseCapone]

Everyone's entitled to an opinion but it's a shame that the Brave New Independent Scotland displays open contempt for a large percentage of the population.

 

I was hoping for better tbh

Large percentage of what population?

[Pans Jambo]

Hurricane will of course profit.

 

They took the exploration risk.

 

They will pay the development costs.

 

So it's only right that they get a good rate of return hence a profit otherwise they will not attract the investment costs.

 

What you can't understand is that it's how much the treasury will get, not Hurricane.

 

And btw Hurricane are based in England.

 

You can't tell the difference between treasury share and investor share.

Is it because the treasury allows the oil companies to royally shaft us by avoiding tax and hoarding their profits in a tax free off-shore havens?

Not illeagal but hardly right either. Independence give us a chance to tell them to pay up or be privatised!

[jambos are go!]

What a day. Started with a whimper and went out like a lamb. 

[Space Mackerel]

You can find it here too, Spunker

 

https://reaction.life/snp-not-scotland/

Is that your blog John?

Did your 16 followers read it including me now?

[Space Mackerel]

Is it because the treasury allows the oil companies to royally shaft us by avoiding tax and hoarding their profits in a tax free off-shore havens?

Not illeagal but hardly right either. Independence give us a chance to tell them to pay up or be privatised!

Deeside and the rest of the Yoons kindly missed out on commenting on that independent (there's that word again) report on how the big oil companies avoid paying tax in the U.K.

 

[emoji849]

[Space Mackerel]

Here it is again

 

http://www.maritime-executive.com/editorials/north-sea-oil-tax-avoidance-schemes-exposed

[Pans Jambo]

Deeside and the rest of the Yoons kindly missed out on commenting on that independent (there's that word again) report on how the big oil companies avoid paying tax in the U.K.

 

[emoji849]

Just a guess here but maybe it doesnt suit their 'Scotland cant really afford it' agenda. Truth hurts.

[Space Mackerel]

Just a guess here but maybe it doesnt suit their 'Scotland cant really afford it' agenda. Truth hurts.

Their agenda is set out on fag packet accounting brought to them by the Daily Mail, The Times and the BBC amongst others.

[Psychedelicropcircle]

Strange times breed strange bedfellows, eh?

 

You should be careful. You may well associate with a lot of secret Tories yourself these days, Psychobabbleboy.

None of the secret variety & 100% none that would support those whom they consider to be their direct antagonisers.

 

You'd be as well going the full hog and becoming a STH at Easter rd as that is on a par with the above.

[Nookie Bear]

Large percentage of what population?

Scotlands.

[Thunderstruck]

Deeside and the rest of the Yoons kindly missed out on commenting on that independent (there's that word again) report on how the big oil companies avoid paying tax in the U.K.

 

[emoji849]

Reading still not your strong suit? You must have missed the posts, from the sensible end of the spectrum, agreeing that the tax arrangements for oil companies is wrong.

 

Meanwhile, you seem, by your lack of comment, to be unfussed about the SNP's "business friendly" tax arrangements or its continued use of offshore banks for son-of-PFI or for its use of the Channel Islands to evade tax for its ferry crews.

 

You do seem to be in good company as the rest of your tag-team seem equally obtuse.

[Space Mackerel]

Reading still not your strong suit? You must have missed the posts, from the sensible end of the spectrum, agreeing that the tax arrangements for oil companies is wrong.

 

Meanwhile, you seem, by your lack of comment, to be unfussed about the SNP's "business friendly" tax arrangements or its continued use of offshore banks for son-of-PFI or for its use of the Channel Islands to evade tax for its ferry crews.

 

You do seem to be in good company as the rest of your tag-team seem equally obtuse.

You're the only decent Yoon poster on this thread [emoji106]

 

Although a link to what you're on about would be good instead.

[Thunderstruck]

You're the only decent Yoon poster on this thread [emoji106]

 

Although a link to what you're on about would be good instead.

Calmac

http://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/13097110.The_Highland_Line__why_are_Scotland___s_ferry_companies_running_their_business_off_shore_/

 

If that is behind a pay wall here is older BBC version

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4564464.stm

 

PFI and offshore banks -

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14448359.Revealed__the_tax_haven_firms_cashing_in_on_Scotland_s_PFI_scandal/

 

Business Rates (no such thing as a free lunch - somebody pays for the giveaway). This is a long read but scale of the lost revenue can be seen. Is the shift away from business to residential? You decide.

http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/104005.aspx

[Unknown user]

Guys, I'd love to keep up with this debate, maybe contribute now and again, but any chance we can tone the shite down a bit?

 

Two deeply entrenched sets of people shouting at each other and calling each other really pathetic nicknames isn't a debate and certainly won't persuade the quiet majority looking in that yours is a convincing argument

[systemx]

Help required , am I a Yoon Yam or a Yam Yoon?

[luckydug]

Guys, I'd love to keep up with this debate, maybe contribute now and again, but any chance we can tone the shite down a bit?

 

Two deeply entrenched sets of people shouting at each other and calling each other really pathetic nicknames isn't a debate and certainly won't persuade the quiet majority looking in that yours is a convincing argument

 

Don't think they are listening Smithee going by the post after yours.

It's getting worse.

[SwindonJambo]

Guys, I'd love to keep up with this debate, maybe contribute now and again, but any chance we can tone the shite down a bit?

Two deeply entrenched sets of people shouting at each other and calling each other really pathetic nicknames isn't a debate and certainly won't persuade the quiet majority looking in that yours is a convincing argument

Not much chance of that here. I very much doubt that one single poster on this thread has changed sides as a result of it. I predict a bitter, nasty and divisive campaign, 3 times worse than the last one, followed by a close result and bitter recriminations afterwards. For once I'm glad to be well away from it. It's way too soon after the last vote and Brexit is a feeble excuse to have one. Scotland only does 15% of its trade with the EU. If there is going to be another vote, I hope it's postponed by at least 2 or 3 years to let things settle.

 

If you're looking for courteous and informed debate, you'll have to go elsewhere.

[hughesie27]

Guys, I'd love to keep up with this debate, maybe contribute now and again, but any chance we can tone the shite down a bit?

 

Two deeply entrenched sets of people shouting at each other and calling each other really pathetic nicknames isn't a debate and certainly won't persuade the quiet majority looking in that yours is a convincing argument

100% this. What is the point in debating if it goes beyond opinion and into personal attacks because someone's dares to think differently.

[Unknown user]

Don't think they are listening Smithee going by the post after yours.

It's getting worse.

Yeah, but maybe people just need reminded now and again that there are many eyes looking in and that this is a great opportunity to try and convince rather than berate.

Maybe

[Space Mackerel]

Not much chance of that here. I very much doubt that one single poster on this thread has changed sides as a result of it. I predict a bitter, nasty and divisive campaign, 3 times worse than the last one, followed by a close result and bitter recriminations afterwards. For once I'm glad to be well away from it. It's way too soon after the last vote and Brexit is a feeble excuse to have one. Scotland only does 15% of its trade with the EU. If there is going to be another vote, I hope it's postponed by at least 2 or 3 years to let things settle.

 

If you're looking for courteous and informed debate, you'll have to go elsewhere.

You don't even live in Scotland? Why get involved?

[frankblack]

What a day. Started with a whimper and went out like a lamb.

Yep. The Tories have confirmed they won't even discuss the possibility of authorising an Article 30 until after Brexit is implemented.

 

For the hard of thinking that would mean the SNP cannot set a date for a referendum and cannot stop Brexit. It will be at least 4 years before any date can be set, and the SNP might not have a majority at Holyrood so it could be overturned.

 

This pretty much puts this thread to rest until after the next Scottish Parliament election and gives the SNP the chance to start doing their job e.g. fix the NHS, Schools,and transport.

[Unknown user]

You don't even live in Scotland? Why get involved?

Neither do I.

 

But I'm a citizen with a vested interest, I've paid years of NI, I'll be entitled to a pension, I have a passport and it's where my loved ones live.

Make no mistake, my life's affected by this too, so why should I not join the debate?

 

I was able to vote the last time, although I chose not to, so why should I be excluded?

[Sarah O]

Why presume his sexuality?

 

No need for the faux offence.

Why post the picture in the first place?

 

I'm not offended. Just perplexed as if it was a "joke" it's no very funny.

[aussieh]

Scotlands.

What? There's two of us.

Yesssssssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry nooks, couldn't resist.

 

Want a haircut, YES

[aussieh]

There's a lot (more) of them about these days.

No, there's not. If there was you'd be running Holyrood and have more than 1 MP.

 

UDI will be announced after easter. Oh BTW , Holyrood doesn't need WM permission. Look it up, The GLS sorted that in 2007.

Ans so called Scottish people loving Scotland's Parliament etc... being oppressed by occupying forces.

Stockholm Syndrome.

 

Tick Tock

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mintit

[Boris]

Yep. The Tories have confirmed they won't even discuss the possibility of authorising an Article 30 until after Brexit is implemented.

For the hard of thinking that would mean the SNP cannot set a date for a referendum and cannot stop Brexit. It will be at least 4 years before any date can be set, and the SNP might not have a majority at Holyrood so it could be overturned.

This pretty much puts this thread to rest until after the next Scottish Parliament election and gives the SNP the chance to start doing their job e.g. fix the NHS, Schools,and transport.

Westminster parliamentary elections 2020 then.

 

If the SNP return a majority of MPs for Scottish constituencies then they can declare independence. That will be the referendum in all,but name then.

[Trapper John McIntyre]

No, there's not. If there was you'd be running Holyrood and have more than 1 MP.

 

UDI will be announced after easter. Oh BTW , Holyrood doesn't need WM permission. Look it up, The GLS sorted that in 2007.

Ans so called Scottish people loving Scotland's Parliament etc... being oppressed by occupying forces.

Stockholm Syndrome.

 

Tick Tock

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mintit

Was it you with the barking dogs outside Holyrood last night?

[The Don]

You don't even live in Scotland? Why get involved?

 

What an incredibly ignorant post.

 

I'm fairly certain ex pats were allowed to vote last time and should be allowed this time. They certainly have more right to vote than someone that's moved here 5 minutes ago but the SNP want these immigrants voting because They will vote for independence to stay in EU it would be like Turkeys voting for Xmas otherwise.

 

That post comes over as someone that wants to stifle opposition your scared of ex pats voting against independence. Let's silence the opposition eh, maybe we should also put some kind of markings or branding on those that do not agree with you and the SNP, maybe we could round them all up by the bus load or train load send them off to work in the disobedient Shetland chookter Islands where they have to work hard to get paid in sheep. Or maybe they'll just never be heard from again.

 

 

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[Harry Potter]

 

What an incredibly ignorant post.

 

I'm fairly certain ex pats were allowed to vote last time and should be allowed this time. They certainly have more right to vote than someone that's moved here 5 minutes ago but the SNP want these immigrants voting because They will vote for independence to stay in EU it would be like Turkeys voting for Xmas otherwise.

 

That post comes over as someone that wants to stifle opposition your scared of ex pats voting against independence. Let's silence the opposition eh, maybe we should also put some kind of markings or branding on those that do not agree with you and the SNP, maybe we could round them all up by the bus load or train load send them off to work in the disobedient Shetland chookter Islands where they have to work hard to get paid in sheep. Or maybe they'll just never be heard from again.

 

 

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Aye and get the 16 year olds  to vote in the hope that will work, which obviously it did not, all rules are flung oot the windae wi wee Nicola about.

[The Don]

Aye and get the 16 year olds to vote in the hope that will work, which obviously it did not, all rules are flung oot the windae wi wee Nicola about.

Correct it didn't affect the overall result however the idea did work in that I believe the percentage of 16-18 year olds that voted yes was extremely high compared to other age brackets.

 

Here's what is utterly ridiculous. The SNP want to introduce this "Named Persons Act" they have failed twice so far in court with judges calling it intrusive, archaic, and an infringement of people's human rights (ironic that a piece of EU legislation put a spammer in the works of their master plan) this NPA covers up to age 18 because they deem anyone below this age vulnerable children. Now doesn't it seem inappropriate to give vulnerable children the right to vote on anything let alone major life changing decisions that will affect millions of people and children for the rest of their lives ? Do you think they are seeking to exploit these vulnerable impressionable children?

 

 

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[luckydug]

In my view only people born in Scotland and permanently resident in Scotland should get a vote.

I am happy for 16yo to get a vote.

It's their future after all.

I am also happy to wait until the impact of Brexit has settled That way people will see a clearer picture of what a post EU future is like.

Just an opinion so please no abuse.

[The Don]

In my view only people born in Scotland and permanently resident in Scotland should get a vote.

I am happy for 16yo to get a vote.

It's their future after all.

I am also happy to wait until the impact of Brexit has settled That way people will see a clearer picture of what a post EU future is like.

Just an opinion so please no abuse.

Nothing wrong in any of that it's the sensible approach particularly the waiting till after Brexit. The people will know what exactly we are voting for. Like in said at the start depending how it turns out I might vote for Indy but as things stand at the moment it's a 100% definite no.

 

I made the comment about 16 year olds to highlight the irony and flaw in the SNP's policies, where there is huge contradiction. Surely if 16 and 17 year olds are deemed responsible enough to vote then they are responsible enough that they don't need a named person chaperone or vice versa if they are deemed vulnerable and impressionable then it's exploitation.

 

 

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[Thunderstruck]

Westminster parliamentary elections 2020 then.

 

If the SNP return a majority of MPs for Scottish constituencies then they can declare independence. That will be the referendum in all,but name then.

You didn't think that through, did you.

[Victorian]

The SNP could credibly declare independence if they win every seat, or near to every seat, at a general election if they have campaigned on an absolutely clear manifesto committment on that basis. A majority of seats isn't enough IMO but the same result as last time is.

[Harry Potter]

Correct it didn't affect the overall result however the idea did work in that I believe the percentage of 16-18 year olds that voted yes was extremely high compared to other age brackets.

 

Here's what is utterly ridiculous. The SNP want to introduce this "Named Persons Act" they have failed twice so far in court with judges calling it intrusive, archaic, and an infringement of people's human rights (ironic that a piece of EU legislation put a spammer in the works of their master plan) this NPA covers up to age 18 because they deem anyone below this age vulnerable children. Now doesn't it seem inappropriate to give vulnerable children the right to vote on anything let alone major life changing decisions that will affect millions of people and children for the rest of their lives ? Do you think they are seeking to exploit these vulnerable impressionable children?

 

 

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Good post, aye Nicola certainly likes to move the posts to win at all costs.

[eddiepolio]

.

[jambo lodge]

Westminster parliamentary elections 2020 then.

 

If the SNP return a majority of MPs for Scottish constituencies then they can declare independence. That will be the referendum in all,but name then.

You seriously think the voters of Scotland can stand the whinging complaining voice of Sturgeon for another 3 years and then vote her back in!! 

[jambo lodge]

Prof Graeme Roy, Director of the Fraser of Allander Institute , Strathclyde, published an excellent article yesterday on how the GERS figures are constructed. As someone who has worked on the GERS figures he knows more than most the accuracy of these figures and the dangers in just dismissing them as some have tried to do in recent days. Perhaps someone with more technical skill than I have could post the link. 

[Pans Jambo]

You seriously think the voters of Scotland can stand the whinging complaining voice of Sturgeon for another 3 years and then vote her back in!! 

See the thing is...there is NO alternative up here. Tories are well...Tories and Labour is a defunct party with no clue other than to copy the Tories and slag off the SNP.

 

The ironic thing about the SNP is; if you want rid of them then you will need to vote for Independence!

 

After Indy the party will splinter/break up and will be no more (Look what happened to UKIP after they got what they wanted).

 

Continual Tory Governments at Westminster and continual SNP Governments at Holyrood until something MAJOR changes. Even if every single voter up here voted Labour it would STILL be a Tory Westminster majority.

[frankblack]

See the thing is...there is NO alternative up here. Tories are well...Tories and Labour is a defunct party with no clue other than to copy the Tories and slag off the SNP.

 

The ironic thing about the SNP is; if you want rid of them then you will need to vote for Independence!

 

After Indy the party will splinter/break up and will be no more (Look what happened to UKIP after they got what they wanted).

 

Continual Tory Governments at Westminster and continual SNP Governments at Holyrood until something MAJOR changes. Even if every single voter up here voted Labour it would STILL be a Tory Westminster majority.

 

What would actually happen is that people would vote tactically to get the SNP out of enough seats that they cannot get Independence through.  Edinburgh West, which is my constituency, would almost certainly go back to Lib Dems after the problems with Michelle Thompson.

[Pans Jambo]

What would actually happen is that people would vote tactically to get the SNP out of enough seats that they cannot get Independence through.  Edinburgh West, which is my constituency, would almost certainly go back to Lib Dems after the problems with Michelle Thompson.

That particular constituency may be true but they will STILL get an overall majority. Even if its just the hardcore 45% that voted YES last time. 5 - 10% of the overall population will still vote Lib-Dem or Green which means the other 50% would be split (almost evenly) between the filth and Labour. SNP win again, and again and again.

 

Vote YES, get rid, start afresh.

[Boris]

You didn't think that through, did you.

 

In what way?

 

That was the MO in the 70's and prior to Holyrood, so still another avenue.

[Victorian]

See the thing is...there is NO alternative up here. Tories are well...Tories and Labour is a defunct party with no clue other than to copy the Tories and slag off the SNP.

 

The ironic thing about the SNP is; if you want rid of them then you will need to vote for Independence!

 

After Indy the party will splinter/break up and will be no more (Look what happened to UKIP after they got what they wanted).

 

Continual Tory Governments at Westminster and continual SNP Governments at Holyrood until something MAJOR changes. Even if every single voter up here voted Labour it would STILL be a Tory Westminster majority.

Correct. The SNP would need to evolve into something else. Rebrand as the Social Democratic Party of Scotland, etc.

[Stuart Lyon]

Vote No in the face of the many unknowns that face us i.e. no economic policy, no currency etc.

[frankblack]

That particular constituency may be true but they will STILL get an overall majority. Even if its just the hardcore 45% that voted YES last time. 5 - 10% of the overall population will still vote Lib-Dem or Green which means the other 50% would be split (almost evenly) between the filth and Labour. SNP win again, and again and again.

 

Vote YES, get rid, start afresh.

 

I think the fact is people would be voting for something different than last time - e.g. vote for a party to remain in the UK post Brexit or vote for a party that will have us out of the UK when we are already out of Europe.

 

Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.  The middle classes will vote for the more secure option, and the SNP will have set their campaign backwards 20 years.