Indy Ref Part Deux

[Space Mackerel]

It's regurgitation of old ideas - it didn't chime with voters before the last referendum and it won't work this time.

 

A Central Bank?

Significant currency reserves - how long to build and what with?

The added risk of inflation?

Guarding against external economic "events"?

 

I'm sure the think tank covered all of these topics in some detail.

 

It probably appeals to the economic wizards who think that their NI was paid into a fund and Scotland will get a share of that fund to pay State Pensions.

 

 

All going grand eh?

 

http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/

[Space Mackerel]

It's regurgitation of old ideas - it didn't chime with voters before the last referendum and it won't work this time.

 

A Central Bank?

Significant currency reserves - how long to build and what with?

The added risk of inflation?

Guarding against external economic "events"?

 

I'm sure the think tank covered all of these topics in some detail.

 

It probably appeals to the economic wizards who think that their NI was paid into a fund and Scotland will get a share of that fund to pay State Pensions.

[Scallywag]

A couple of points.The SNP. The SNP has been campaigning for Independence for around a Century IIRC. Sturgeon has been campaigning for Independence since she was a teenager. She worked on the discredited  White Paper full time for a couple of years at least.

 

It may come as a surprise to you but senior politicians are expected to handle extremely difficult things. Especially when after decades of consideration

Perhaps she should have just painted a bus with lies, thats seems to be the extent of the hard work put in by the senior politicians at Westminster about to drag us off a cliff.

[Roxy Hearts]

ame="Roxy Hearts" post="5936551" timestamp="1490819078"]

 

 

 

What is your point?

 

The Edinburgh West seat has only been held once by the SNP in my time as a voter IIRC. Most of the time its been Lib Dem or even Tory.

I've never met a LD voter is what I mean and also why did all these voters change their minds and vote SNP? I'm assuming they voted for some of the chancers rather than the party. Mike somebody and Barrett someone else. Empty vessels.

[Psychedelicropcircle]

Perhaps she should have just painted a bus with lies, thats seems to be the extent of the hard work put in by the senior politicians at Westminster about to drag us off a cliff.

But but but this is acceptable! She had to be dragged to court to be forced to involve her own parliament. They even had a vote the day BEFORE a white paper on brexit was issued, Imagine the ridicule had the SNP tried this at Holyrood.

[Space Mackerel]

Hold the front page, exclusive....!!!!!!

 

Better Together are to rename themselves as........

 

New Direction

 

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

 

http://www.thenational.scot/politics/15187714.Better_Together_set_to_be_rebranded_as_New_Direction/

[jambogemz]

 

It's regurgitation of old ideas - it didn't chime with voters before the last referendum and it won't work this time.

 

A Central Bank?

Significant currency reserves - how long to build and what with?

The added risk of inflation?

Guarding against external economic "events"?

 

I'm sure the think tank covered all of these topics in some detail.

 

It probably appeals to the economic wizards who think that their NI was paid into a fund and Scotland will get a share of that fund to pay State Pensions.

A bit like having a referendum eh!!!!

 

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

[Space Mackerel]

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing - as you prove to us on a daily basis.

?1.8 plus trillion plus rising and you don't even bat an eye lid?

[Space Mackerel]

A bit like having a referendum eh!!!!

 

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Only one, nice try though.

[Space Mackerel]

Debt v Deficit v Currency Reserves - the differences do seem to be a challenge for you. Today's top tip - get clued up [mod edit]

What is debt v deficit in your wee world?

[JamboX2]

Sturgeon wasn't voted in at a Westminster election.

 

And for all your dismisal of Sturgeon and the SNP, why aren't they flagging in the polls?

This puzzles me. A year of nothing but a budget (by the way that's the bear minimum) from the government. The Education Bill (remember that?) has been shunted. Council tax reform shunted. Land Reform delayed. Housing and rent legislation no where to be seen. A Scottish Social Security Bill to establish a Scottish Welfare Authority is again absent from Parliamentary debate.

 

I honestly do not care too much about independence any more. It'll cause as much fuss as Brexit. But I just wish the Parliament at Holyrood and the Government in St Andrews House would actually start bringing forward legislation to improve lives in Scotland.

 

It used to be a joke in 2014 that Scotland was on pause... well it actually is!

 

It's beggars belief and rather than trying to prevent a second vote the opposition should start proposing members bills and show the SNP up for inaction in office.

[JamboX2]

Remember, it was us Scots who invented the humble ? before England. We are only taking back what we rightly owned and created.

 

You honestly cannot be that naive? There was a Scots ? and an English ? before 1707. We did not invent the ?.

[Thunderstruck]

What is debt v deficit in your wee world?

If you have invested your "substantial wealth", you should know about such things but nothing would surprise me.

 

Debt - to owe (from Latin debes)

 

Deficit - a lack of something or a failure - a monetary deficit, a learning deficit. (Latin deficio = fail)

 

Clearly, quite different concepts although it is easy to confuse them.

 

In short -

Debt is something owed by one person to another.

 

Deficit is the negative difference between income and expenditure. (The opposite of surplus). Dickens' Wilkins Micawber encapsulated Surplus and Deficit very concisely.

 

That's the potted version - if you want more detail on good debt, less good debt, bonds and bills - go look it up for yourself.

[Harry Potter]

And?

Means Edinburgh West does not want a free Scotland, easy eh.

And i was one of the LD voters.

[Hasselhoff]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/john-curtice-scots-attitudes-to-brexit-in-line-with-rest-of-uk-1-4406776

[Hasselhoff]

http://whatukthinks.org/eu/what-do-voters-in-scotland-want-from-brexit/

[Nookie Bear]

Very strong rumours that there will be a Scottish pound pegged to maybe the English pound first as the transitional phase takes over and then it can be pegged to whatever/whoever decides to suit the Scottish economy

Read the news that youre not getting.

 

http://www.thenational.scot/news/14904058.Brand_new____Scot__tops_think_tank_s_nine_currency_options_for_an_independent_Scotland/

Strong rumours, you say?

 

That's me convinced...YES.

 

The currency issue cost the SNP dearly last time and yet, three years on, we still have rumours and assumptions.

[Psychedelicropcircle]

You honestly cannot be that naive? There was a Scots ? and an English ? before 1707. We did not invent the ?.

We invented the Bank as you know it today, the BOE was for funding warmongering!

[frankblack]

We invented the Bank as you know it today, the BOE was for funding warmongering!

 

Which bank would be the Scottish Central Bank? RBS?

 

It can't be Bank of Scotland which is owned by Llodys Bank of London.

[Stuart Lyon]

NS has gone from will of the people to will of the Parliament - what next Will o' the Wisp?

[Adam Murray]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/john-curtice-scots-attitudes-to-brexit-in-line-with-rest-of-uk-1-4406776

 

 

That won't sit to well with some of the Nationalists who think that the majority of English are racist.

 

As has been pointed out many times, we are no better, no worse than our English neighbours, we have a lot more in common with them than we do with someone from Bulgaria, Romania, Estonia, in fact all of the other EU member states.

[jambos are go!]

Perhaps she should have just painted a bus with lies, thats seems to be the extent of the hard work put in by the senior politicians at Westminster about to drag us off a cliff.

 

What the heck has this got to do with my criticism of her hapless paper. Any diversion better than none!!

[HaymarketJambo]

Means Edinburgh West does not want a free Scotland, easy eh.

And i was one of the LD voters.

 

I'm so happy for you.

 

I'm one of the SNP voters that gave the SNP 54 seats at Westminster including at the time Edinburgh West and a party that has won three Scottish Elections in a row.  

[deesidejambo]

I'm so happy for you.

 

I'm one of the SNP voters that gave the SNP 54 seats at Westminster including at the time Edinburgh West and a party that has won three Scottish Elections in a row.

I don't care if they get 100% of the votes inelectuons. I myself am happy to be represented by SNP at Westminster.

 

But that works against their Indy aspirations.

[deesidejambo]

I'm so happy for you.

 

I'm one of the SNP voters that gave the SNP 54 seats at Westminster including at the time Edinburgh West and a party that has won three Scottish Elections in a row.

I don't care if they get 100% of the votes inelectuons. I myself am happy to be represented by SNP at Westminster.

 

But that works against their Indy aspirations.

[Boris]

I don't care if they get 100% of the votes inelectuons. I myself am happy to be represented by SNP at Westminster.

 

But that works against their Indy aspirations.

 

Do you not think that if they got 100% of the vote at a Westminster election then independence would be achieved?

[Unknown user]

That won't sit to well with some of the Nationalists who think that the majority of English are racist.

 

As has been pointed out many times, we are no better, no worse than our English neighbours, we have a lot more in common with them than we do with someone from Bulgaria, Romania, Estonia, in fact all of the other EU member states.

[deesidejambo]

Do you not think that if they got 100% of the vote at a Westminster election then independence would be achieved?

No. Voting to have good Scottish representation at Westminster is one thing.

 

Being independent of Westminster is another.

 

The more the SNP get the first, the less chance they will get the second.

[Yoda]

Very strong rumours that there will be a Scottish pound pegged to maybe the English pound first as the transitional phase takes over and then it can be pegged to whatever/whoever decides to suit the Scottish economy

Read the news that youre not getting.

 

http://www.thenational.scot/news/14904058.Brand_new____Scot__tops_think_tank_s_nine_currency_options_for_an_independent_Scotland/

If a Scottish pound is pegged to the English pound, then England (which will then be a foreign country) will be driving Scotland's fiscal policy.  Sturgeon will be at the mercy of the rUK Government, probably the big bad Tories.

 

How can that be a good a thing for Scotland?

 

Anyway we'd be getting the Euro if Sturgeon has her way.  That's if it still exits are after the French & German elections.

[Unknown user]

If a Scottish pound is pegged to the English pound, then England (which will then be a foreign country) will be driving Scotland's fiscal policy. Sturgeon will be at the mercy of the rUK Government, probably the big bad Tories.

 

How can that be a good a thing for Scotland?

 

Anyway we'd be getting the Euro if Sturgeon has her way. That's if it still exits are after the French & German elections.

I'm surprised that's a serious question tbh - it would be good for Scotland as we'd have the power to peg it to something else if needed/desired.

[reaths17]

If a Scottish pound is pegged to the English pound, then England (which will then be a foreign country) will be driving Scotland's fiscal policy.  Sturgeon will be at the mercy of the rUK Government, probably the big bad Tories.

 

How can that be a good a thing for Scotland?

 

Anyway we'd be getting the Euro if Sturgeon has her way.  That's if it still exits are after the French & German elections.

its the main thing that's totally wrong with the separatist, they couldn't give a flying about Scotland, they just want independence.

[Unknown user]

its the main thing that's totally wrong with the separatist, they couldn't give a flying about Scotland, they just want independence.

Mon eh, there's a debate trying to break out

[Pans Jambo]

its the main thing that's totally wrong with the separatist, they couldn't give a flying about Scotland, they just want independence.

Its EXACTLY the opposite. We care about Scotland so we want to Independence to do a better job than the muppets that have lorded it over us for the last 300 odd years.

 

Get it???

[doctor jambo]

If Sturgeon is, as she says, using her parliamentary majority as a mandate for a new ref, the her next manifesto for the GE should be a blue print for the independent Scotland .

This should include currency, EU, fisheries, farming, taxes, borrowing and so on - on the basis that IF she wins the indy ref that is what we are getting.

If she cannot separate GE voting and INdy ref then the two should not be separable

[reaths17]

Its EXACTLY the opposite. We care about Scotland so we want to Independence to do a better job than the muppets that have lorded it over us for the last 300 odd years.

 

Get it???

you've had 300 years to come up with a plan for post independence and all you had was that stupid white paper, it's independence at all costs, tae with the repercussions, always has been.

[Boris]

If a Scottish pound is pegged to the English pound, then England (which will then be a foreign country) will be driving Scotland's fiscal policy.  Sturgeon will be at the mercy of the rUK Government, probably the big bad Tories.

 

How can that be a good a thing for Scotland?

 

Anyway we'd be getting the Euro if Sturgeon has her way.  That's if it still exits are after the French & German elections.

 

So you admit being ruled by the rUK Govt, especially the Tories is a bad thing?

 

Good lad.

[reaths17]

Mon eh, there's a debate trying to break out

hahaha, there's those with facts and those out on a wing and a prayer, not exactly debating material.

[Boris]

hahaha, there's those with facts and those out on a wing and a prayer, not exactly debating material.

 

When you bring prayer into it, does it become a mass debate?

 

[Unknown user]

hahaha, there's those with facts and those out on a wing and a prayer, not exactly debating material.

It's no more a wing and prayer then leaving the EU, but Britain went for that!

[reaths17]

When you bring prayer into it, does it become a mass debate?

 

nice line boris, your the only one that actually gets that there could be repercussions good/bad, the rest are in denial, believing that if its done buy a Scottish ersole/politician it'll be just great at any cost, just as long as its no wan o they English ersoles

[jambo lodge]

So you admit being ruled by the rUK Govt, especially the Tories is a bad thing?

 

Good lad.

 

19 Elections since 1945. 9 with Conservative majority and 9 with Labour majority. 1 with Con/Lib Coalition.

So Scotland has voted in the government at least 50% of the time..........hardly being ruled by the Tory UK. More a case of contributing Prime Ministers and Cabinet Ministers to the UK Government.

[reaths17]

It's no more a wing and prayer then leaving the EU, but Britain went for that!

tut tut, 2 completely different situations. the UK wont be waving about a white paper with gobbledygook on it.

[Unknown user]

tut tut, 2 completely different situations. the UK wont be waving about a white paper with gobbledygook on it.

They are different but tut tut my arse. The point is that the uk voted for one, in a referendum, without anyone honestly knowing what it would entail, mainly out of principle it would seem.

There are degrees and differences but there's an obvious and fair comparison there.

[doctor jambo]

They are different but tut tut my arse. The point is that the uk voted for one, in a referendum, without anyone honestly knowing what it would entail, mainly out of principle it would seem.

There are degrees and differences but there's an obvious and fair comparison there.

Indeed

Both referenda are/were speculative at best.

We will need to see how Brexit works out, then go from there

[Pans Jambo]

you've had 300 years to come up with a plan for post independence and all you had was that stupid white paper, it's independence at all costs, tae *** with the repercussions, always has been.

 

I've had 300 years? I'm not Logan mate.

 

I quite liked the white paper apart from sharing sterling part. Where was the white paper for Brexit? Oh aye, side of a fag packet.

[Boris]

19 Elections since 1945. 9 with Conservative majority and 9 with Labour majority. 1 with Con/Lib Coalition.

So Scotland has voted in the government at least 50% of the time..........hardly being ruled by the Tory UK. More a case of contributing Prime Ministers and Cabinet Ministers to the UK Government.

 

Read in context to the post...

[reaths17]

They are different but tut tut my arse. The point is that the uk voted for one, in a referendum, without anyone honestly knowing what it would entail, mainly out of principle it would seem.

There are degrees and differences but there's an obvious and fair comparison there.

the uk will still have its own money.

 

it will still have its financial sector.

 

it will still be in control of its economy.

---------------------------------

independent Scotland

 

we will use English money

 

we will let the EU run everything else

[Unknown user]

the uk will still have its own money.

 

it will still have its financial sector.

 

it will still be in control of its economy.

---------------------------------

independent Scotland

 

we will use English money

 

we will let the EU run everything else

Nah, that's just as negative a slant as you can find.

The similarities are glaringly obvious, choosing to see them is up to you.

[reaths17]

Nah, that's just as negative a slant as you can find.

The similarities are glaringly obvious, choosing to see them is up to you.

the uk will be free to negotiate new trade agreements

 

Scotland will lose its main 80% trading partner and have to let the EU negotiate for us.

 

the uk is there already quite able to stand on its own, Scotland seems to need somebodies hand to hold.

 

you say negative I say reality. the reality is that so far the separatists aren't winning over any new converts, it actually seems the other way. they didn't even get a peoples mandate to try again, it was forced through only by holyrood, as the polls have shown little taste for another referendum.

[Unknown user]

the uk will be free to negotiate new trade agreements

 

Scotland will lose its main 80% trading partner and have to let the EU negotiate for us.

 

the uk is there already quite able to stand on its own, Scotland seems to need somebodies hand to hold.

 

you say negative I say reality. the reality is that so far the separatists aren't winning over any new converts, it actually seems the other way. they didn't even get a peoples mandate to try again, it was forced through only by holyrood, as the polls have shown little taste for another referendum.

I don't think you've said anything to convince me that the two aren't in any way comparable as a wing and a prayer TBH.

 

I don't know if British nationals can stay here yet. While I'm relaxed about the situation, you can't tell me that this aspect doesn't at least have a wingy, prayery vibe to it.