Indy Ref Part Deux

[Mikey1874]

Yes started at what last campaign?

 

32% or something

 

Be wary of taking too much credence

 

Just one poll that matters othewise called the vote

[DanishTam10]

Eh, no but I'm thinking you probably live in a boozer.

Yes, The Jesus Told Me Too, foot of the Royal mile. 

[jamie1874]

If you accept democracy, then appreciate that 62% is a higher number than 55%.

I know that the turnout was lower before the unionists jump on it. It's still a higher winning margin nonetheless.

Equally 60% of London voted to remain, and a city with population bigger than our country, but we don't have the cry for them demanding independence or to remain as part of the EU.

 

Scotland voted to remain part of the union, the impact of that decision was always going to be status quo in the current electrol processes, I.e. 10 times the population in England so all future elections will impact heavily on what is voted there, but everyone knew that when they voted.

 

SNP will continue to hold power in Scotland either by majority or coalition with Greens, so do they keep asking for a referendum until they get a result they like? IMO we are in a stage where the country needs to remain calm and focus on the job ahead. We have a ? which continues to weaken by the week, that ultimately will cost everyone more money. We have at least 2-3 more years of uncertainty through the Brexit vote, but to have running in parallel the threat of the break up of the UK hanging over makes matter worse.

 

I hope that the call for a referendum is really a bargaining tool being used by SNP to try and get into negotiations some form of Scottish clause in the Brexit deal that allows a fast track non Euro re entry to the EU if in the future Scotland becomes an independent country, and if they get that they drop the threat of a vote to break up of union. But I think that is all in my head as wishful thinking.

[Cruyff Turn]

Yes, The Jesus Told Me Too, foot of the Royal mile.

Don't quite get that tbh Tam.

[frankblack]

Will these fecking aresehole Nats stop saying Scotland was taking out the EU against our will.

 

 

It was not against my will - glad we are getting out of that cesspit of nob jockeys.

 

 

Now to get rid of that skanky ferret once and for all

The Gnats are basing their campaign on bare-faced lies to appeal to the remoaners by promosing a Yes vote will undo Brexit in Scotland.

 

Brexit will be complete BEFORE any Indy 2 Referendum and Scotland would have to join the end of the waiting list. What would a debt ridden independent Scotland have to offer to appeal to existing EU members compared to other proposed members?

[DanishTam10]

London isn't a country though. Does Scotland just bend over and do what England says for eternity then?

 

The 2014 result was being respected until English Votes for English Laws then what followed was every promise made during the previous campaign being systemically broken.

 your language is so violent.

 

violent language is very yesterday my friend.

[frankblack]

London isn't a country though. Does Scotland just bend over and do what England says for eternity then?

 

The 2014 result was being respected until English Votes for English Laws then what followed was every promise made during the previous campaign being systemically broken.

The SNP forced the English Nationalism by voting on English only issues at Westminster to help defeat the government. The SNP broke their own promise not to meddle in those issues.

[Beast Boy]

'Bend over' is violent language? You've spent nearly two weeks calling someone on multiple threads a 'rapist'.

Indeed. Returned poster from StalkHEARTS. Probably multiple posters using the same log in details. Floyd/Brandt would be my guess. Bullet proof though for some reason. Never mind. Wouldn't waste your time on him. A weird little creature.

[jamie1874]

London isn't a country though. Does Scotland just bend over and do what England says for eternity then?

The 2014 result was being respected until English Votes for English Laws then what followed was every promise made during the previous campaign being systemically broken.

well I don't look at everything as England v Scotland and believe that we get a rough deal that is made out, so don't have a problem accepting we vote as part of the UK, actually as an electrol population we are actually over represented in Westminster.

[Justin Z]

Equally 60% of London voted to remain, and a city with population bigger than our country, but we don't have the cry for them demanding independence or to remain as part of the EU.

 

Um, what.

 

One of the first things they did was try to figure out how to get a separate deal for the City of London!  Then, as talks about it intensified, the entire metropolitan area.

 

Is this what it takes to oppose Scottish independence?  To just ignore reality so you can make strawmannish arguments that also happen to be based on complete fictions?  I'm asking as a complete outsider, because that's exactly what I am.  For anyone looking from the outside in at this issue, well . . .  I'll let you fill in the rest.

[DanishTam10]

Show me one vote on where the SNP 'defeated the government'. You won't find a single example because it has never happened.

 

Before the 2015 influx, they only had a few MPs. Even now at 54 (of 650), they won't make any ground against an extremist right-wing Tory government and a Labour Party in turmoil.

 

Your language is like manic teeth shredding anything that comes close to it. 

 

Of course the snp have deliberately wound up english nationalism. 

 

The snp have sought to destabilize everything. They suck at being a govt. 

[Beast Boy]

The poster who he alleged should have reported him to be honest, he's survived only to further pollute the board.

That was me. It's not my job to moderate this place. It happened for 2-3 weeks. It's not difficult to find it. Still, here we are.

[Cruyff Turn]

Your language is like manic teeth shredding anything that comes close to it.

 

Of course the snp have deliberately wound up english nationalism.

 

The snp have sought to destabilize everything. They suck at being a govt.

"They suck at being a govt."

 

Very eloquently put for an 8 year old.

[frankblack]

Show me one vote on where the SNP 'defeated the government'. You won't find a single example because it has never happened.

 

Before the 2015 influx, they only had a few MPs. Even now at 54 (of 650), they won't make any ground against an extremist right-wing Tory government and a Labour Party in turmoil.

Fox Hunting bill in 2015:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/fox-hunting-ban-snp-goes-back-on-pledge-not-to-vote-on-matters-that-purely-affect-england-10389077.html

 

I believe this got defeated but regardless its an act of hypocrisy by the SNP to antagoise the English.

[jamie1874]

Um, what.

 

One of the first things they did was try to figure out how to get a separate deal for the City of London! Then, as talks about it intensified, the entire metropolitan area.

 

Is this what it takes to oppose Scottish independence? To just ignore reality so you can make strawmannish arguments that also happen to be based on complete fictions? I'm asking as a complete outsider, because that's exactly what I am. For anyone looking from the outside in at this issue, well . . . I'll let you fill in the rest.

A few weeks of nonsense getting spouted in London and a few change.org petitions to try and get the Mayor to declare independence for London and remain in EU. Really comparable to what the SNP are doing and how they have done it, days before Article 50 triggered.

 

I have no problem with a further referendum for Scottish independence and people having the right to vote again ( min of 10 years later) however I think the timing of calling for one just a few years later and while the country is in a mess over Brexit doesn't nothing but hinder us.

 

At the end of the day, as we seen in the first vote, the hardline Yes voters will not be swayed by any debate and neither will the hardline No voters.

[Space Mackerel]

Just think:

 

[Cruyff Turn]

Just think:

 

I wouldn't trust polls to be honest.

 

And if it is even that close I wouldn't expect it to swing either way much more than 3%.

 

My own opinion of course.

 

There were definitely people who voted No who would have voted Yes after 'the pledge'.

[DanishTam10]

I wouldn't trust polls to be honest.

 

And if it is even that close I wouldn't expect it to swing either way much more than 3%.

 

My own opinion of course.

 

There were definitely people who voted No who would have voted Yes after 'the pledge'.

 

Do you mean the vow?

You might be spring cleaning. 

[Space Mackerel]

I wouldn't trust polls to be honest.

 

And if it is even that close I wouldn't expect it to swing either way much more than 3%.

 

My own opinion of course.

 

There were definitely people who voted No who would have voted Yes after 'the pledge'.

At leat 18 months to destroy their faux Brit nonsense.

 

It'll be a Yes, even the bookies ken now.

 

 

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[Beast Boy]

At leat 18 months to destroy their faux Brit nonsense.

 

It'll be a Yes, even the bookies ken now.

 

 

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It's obvious how I intend to vote, but... I just don't see it happening this time either, unfortunately. Hoping to be pleasantly surprised though.

[Cruyff Turn]

Do you mean the vow?

You might be spring cleaning.

That's the one Tam.

[Space Mackerel]

It's obvious how I intend to vote, but... I just don't see it happening this time either, unfortunately. Hoping to be pleasantly surprised though.

Young folk are turning their backs on the old archaic system, I've 2 pals and their 4 daughters are now Yes.

 

 

 

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[Beast Boy]

Young folk are turning their backs on the old archaic system, I've 2 pals and their 4 daughters are now Yes.

 

 

 

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Here's hoping, mate. Keep up the good work. Hopefully you don't get called something totally disgusting by the more unsavoury creatures in this place along the way.

[Space Mackerel]

cheer up, no-ones died

The new British Empire isn't going to be a v2, more a 0.5

 

 

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[frankblack]

So they never defeated the government Frank, it doesn't back up your initial point sorry mate.

 

However, fair enough it was an English only matter but surely most people would vote against such a barbaric act out of common decency? They were applauded for their stance by vast sections of English media, campaign groups, the public etc.

The fact is it nullifies your argument about English Votes for English Matters. You used this point incorrectly when the SNP were the ones stirring the hornets nest.

[Space Mackerel]

Here's hoping, mate. Keep up the good work. Hopefully you don't get called something totally disgusting by the more unsavoury creatures in this place along the way.

Sure my step mum is a Yes too now [emoji106]

 

 

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[The Don]

Interestingly there's one of those online petitions already nearly at 100,000 signatures against another referendum.

 

 

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[Cruyff Turn]

At leat 18 months to destroy their faux Brit nonsense.

 

It'll be a Yes, even the bookies ken now.

 

 

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I love your optimism. It'll be much closer.

 

They've still got the Beep and the press on their side remember. Unfortunately most of the lies and fearmongering have been debunked and this time they won't be able to use the , "we'll give you more powers if you put the gun down" spiel.

[Space Mackerel]

Interestingly there's one of those online petitions already nearly at 100,000 signatures against another referendum.

 

 

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Interestingly, it matters not a jot [emoji23]

 

 

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[The Don]

Interestingly, it matters not a jot [emoji23]

 

 

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Probably not but it'll still be debated and you still have no mandate.

 

Dry yer eyes

 

 

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[Cruyff Turn]

Interestingly there's one of those online petitions already nearly at 100,000 signatures against another referendum.

 

 

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Petitions and peaceful protest have never achieved anything.

 

So, gid luck with that.

[DanishTam10]

The new British Empire isn't going to be a v2, more a 0.5

 

 

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Im thinking a v2 is a nazi rocket, and 0.5 is a lead for a mechanical pencil.

 

and you will never stop sending out your nationalist comments. 

 

even though you usually change the subject as a reply. 

[Space Mackerel]

Probably not but it'll still be debated and you still have no mandate.

 

Dry yer eyes

 

 

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So it won't matter then, cheers for the clarification

 

 

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[DanishTam10]

Petitions and peaceful protest have never achieved anything.

 

So, gid luck with that.

 

Are you sure?

[Space Mackerel]

Im thinking a v2 is a nazi rocket, and 0.5 is a lead for a mechanical pencil.

 

and you will never stop sending out your nationalist comments.

 

even though you usually change the subject as a reply.

As someone from Denmark, you sure have a strange sense of patriotism to the English National cause. How come?

 

 

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[The Don]

Petitions and peaceful protest have never achieved anything.

 

So, gid luck with that.

No it's only when political parties and extremists threaten, abuse and harass people that it works eh?

 

I forgot the extremists don't respect democracy unless it's on their terms

 

 

 

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[Cruyff Turn]

Are you sure?

No really but I'm sure you will enlighten me. I can't think of many.

 

Berlin wall maybe?

 

Was that peaceful, way too young to remember tbh.

[Cruyff Turn]

No it's only when political parties and extremists threaten, abuse and harass people that it works eh?

 

I forgot the extremists don't respect democracy unless it's on their terms

 

 

 

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Yeah, because woman got the right to vote through peaceful protests right enough.

 

[Space Mackerel]

Dear god, what has happened down South?

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/politics/nicola-sturgeon-liar-traitor-head/

 

 

 

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[jamie1874]

Following the Brexit vote could there be a possibility that any further referendums in the U.K. Have to have a clear electorate majority to win? Not use on the legislation regarding doing that but would give the SNP what they want (another vote) but make it very difficult to win.

 

I get the impression that NS is trying to play hard ball with TM and she will do exactly the same back.

[The Don]

As someone from Denmark, you sure have a strange sense of patriotism to the English National cause. How come?

 

 

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Do you have another pseudo called Sergei by any chance?

 

 

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[DanishTam10]

As someone from Denmark, you sure have a strange sense of patriotism to the English National cause. How come?

 

 

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I genuinely meant that as compliment. It totally did not come across as one.

 

I was refering to the mood, it just seems like nationalists, not you, you are always cheery, but nationalists seem to be conceding already.

 

It feels like it is all done and dusted already. there is no energy in it all.

[Space Mackerel]

Do you have another pseudo called Sergei by any chance?

 

 

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Just doing a quick paper review, can't trust the hingers on fae Sky ken.

 

 

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[DanishTam10]

Do you have another pseudo called Sergei by any chance?

 

 

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I doubt it. Space Mackerel seems like he totally wouldn't even think of doing that. 

[DanishTam10]

What a sombre mood now. 

 

I think indyref2 has died already.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

No. We voted to remain part of the UK Parliament which Scotland, under the UK constitution, is an equal partner.

 

The Scottish electorate elects MP's to the UK Parliament.

 

Those MP's represent Scotland, the majority voted against the EU referendum in the first place and evoking article 50.

 

Therefore, Scottish votes, as an equal partner of UK do not count within a UK Parliament.

 

Which isn't hard lines or tough luck. It is an affront to democracy.

You do realise that Scotland has 59 seats out of 600, representing its population size in the UK?

 

By your logic, 10 NI MPs could block the bill as NI has 18.

[aussieh]

You've got that many user names?

Pot kettle

[aussieh]

Tory election fraud, 18 MPs under investigation and one interviewed under caution.

 

There goes their majority and here comes Nigel.

[davie1980]

Following the Brexit vote could there be a possibility that any further referendums in the U.K. Have to have a clear electorate majority to win? Not use on the legislation regarding doing that but would give the SNP what they want (another vote) but make it very difficult to win.

 

I get the impression that NS is trying to play hard ball with TM and she will do exactly the same back.

 

So in other words, could the No side cheat to ensure victory, just in case they can't achieve it through lies, threats and scaremongering this time round?

[jamie1874]

So in other words, could the No side cheat to ensure victory, just in case they can't achieve it through lies, threats and scaremongering this time round?

Depends how you look at it?

 

For Scotland to become an independent country should we expect at least 50% of those eligible to vote to want it? That seems fair. iMO for such important life changing referendums there should be some form on minimum turnout for the vote to become valid.

 

As for the lies the last time, if the yes campaign blame anyone but themselves for defeat then they are destined to fail again. Too many unanswer economic questions last time around, so if they want to win this time around they need to show they can answer questions on currency etc, especially with the possibility of the Euro handing over our head should we wish to rejoin the EU as an independent country.