Indy Ref Part Deux

[Cruyff Turn]

The real figures the extremists and teeth gnashers don't like to talk about, and what makes it worse is these figures are from the Scottish governments own GERS so they can hardly argue against them or say they are made up or yoon propaganda.

 

Total Public Sector Revenue 2015-16

 

Including an illustrative geographic share of North Sea, Scottish public sector revenue was estimated as ?53.7 billion (7.9 per cent of UK revenue). Of this, ?60 million was North Sea revenue.

 

Scotland?s illustrative share of North Sea revenue fell from ?1.8 billion in 2014-15 to ?60 million, reflecting a decline in total UK North Sea revenue.

 

Scotland?s public sector revenue is equivalent to ?10,000 per person, ?400 less than the UK average, regardless of the inclusion of North Sea revenue.

 

Total Public Sector Expenditure 2015-16

 

Total expenditure for the benefit of Scotland by the Scottish Government, UK Government, and all other parts of the public sector was ?68.6 billion. This is equivalent to 9.1 per cent of total UK public sector expenditure, and ?12,800 per person, which is ?1,200 per person greater than the UK average.

 

Current Budget Balance 2015-16

 

This is the difference between total revenue and current expenditure (i.e. excluding capital investment). The current budget balance:

 

Excluding North Sea revenue, was a deficit of ?12.7 billion (8.6 per cent of GDP).

 

Including an illustrative geographic share of North Sea revenue, was a deficit of ?12.6 billion (8.1 per cent of GDP).

 

For the UK, was a deficit of ?41.5 billion (2.2 per cent of GDP)

 

Net Fiscal Balance 2015-16

 

This is the difference between total revenue and total public sector expenditure including capital investment. The net fiscal balance:

 

Excluding North Sea revenue, was a deficit of ?14.9 billion (10.1 per cent of GDP).

 

Including an illustrative geographic share of North Sea revenue, was a deficit of ?14.8 billion (9.5 per cent of GDP).

 

For the UK, was a deficit of ?75.3 billion (4.0 per cent of GDP).

 

 

 

 

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So this debt has all been racked up by the Scottish Parliament and the SNP?

 

With no financial powers whatsoever.

 

And somehow by staying in the Union, it is going to change Scotland for the better?

 

Are we suddenly going to get full Federalism and be given a share of our of the currency and the central bank? So we can run our own economy?

 

The Union has f*cked Scotland royally and you think that somehow we are better off being handed our pocket money by Westminster every year is somehow going to change the status quo.

 

You can debate finances until you are blue in the face, the constitutional question will remain because the UK does not work, it is undemocratic.

[Pans Jambo]

Then we Scotland would not be admitted. It is mandatory for countries now joining the EU to adopt the Euro. Of course that might change when it goes down the pan.

I dont think it is. Sweden said they would adopt it when conditions were right. That was some time ago and they dont look like doing it any time soon.

 

We would probably say the same (If we are in fact looking to join the EU or just be a part of the free market. Thus far Nicola Sturgeon has not said we would join the EU. SHe's only mentioned the trading market).

[Boris]

The Euro would have a massive negative impact on your life.  Would employers want to pay two different currencies and tax systems to workers who are either side of the border?

 

If you fancy a weekend down south you would need to get currency to spend.

 

The main concern about the Independence is that we will become an economic backwater with all the top companies moving down south where the majority of their customers are.  Unemployment would hit unprecedented levels.  Maybe we could use "Scotland's Oil" to subsidise this, though?

 

 

Or we could just get access to the single market via EEA/EFTA (whichever - the Norway option) and experience the benefits of being in the eu without actually being there.

 

Currency - see if you live in the south of england but want to go to amsterdam or paris you n eed to get currency.  If you live here and want to go to theseplaces you need currency.

 

One of the laziest arguments yet, imo.  Do people on either side of the irish border bother about the differences in currency?

[Pans Jambo]

Oil.

 

The price is low right now.

 

It will go up again.

 

Fact is, we have oil. scores of countries do not and they survive just fine.

 

Did oil pay for:

The M25

The London Underground Upgrades

The First 2 extensions to Heathrow

The Closure of the Heavy Industries in the UK (Coal, Steel, etc)

The Channel Tunnel

The Falklands War

The Iraq War

The Iraq Invasion

The War in Afghanistan 

 

 

What did it pay for up here in the 'sick man of europe' land? and how much are we owed for all that wealth that flowed south of the border for the last 40 odd years?

[i8hibsh]

Oil.

 

The price is low right now.

 

It will go up again.

 

Fact is, we have oil. scores of countries do not and they survive just fine.

 

Did oil pay for:

The M25

The London Underground Upgrades

The First 2 extensions to Heathrow

The Closure of the Heavy Industries in the UK (Coal, Steel, etc)

The Channel Tunnel

The Falklands War

The Iraq War

The Iraq Invasion

The War in Afghanistan 

 

 

What did it pay for up here in the 'sick man of europe' land? and how much are we owed for all that wealth that flowed south of the border for the last 40 odd years?

 

As we speak, every second of every day there are people all over the world working on substitutes and alternatives for oil.  Oil has 50 years max and I am being kind.  What then?

[Pans Jambo]

As we speak, every second of every day there are people all over the world working on substitutes and alternatives for oil.  Oil has 50 years max and I am being kind.  What then?

I guess we will use that then. Same as everyone else. Truth is Scotland will likely be at the forefront of that as well.

 

Why are the Tories taxing green energy out of existence then?

[frankblack]

Or we could just get access to the single market via EEA/EFTA (whichever - the Norway option) and experience the benefits of being in the eu without actually being there.

 

Currency - see if you live in the south of england but want to go to amsterdam or paris you n eed to get currency.  If you live here and want to go to theseplaces you need currency.

 

One of the laziest arguments yet, imo.  Do people on either side of the irish border bother about the differences in currency?

 

Firstly, I really have no interest in the Irish situation.

 

Most of our trade is with England not the EU.

 

We will be out of the EEA/EFTA before any referendum so will have to join the queue and beg for entry behind the likes of Bosnia and Montenegro.

 

The SNP have shown zero fiscal capability of being able to run the UK as an independent country and don't seem to know what their policies are.  Their policies seem to start and end at the word "referendum", and their blatant lies about Oil at the last referendum are in tatters.

 

[i8hibsh]

I guess we will use that then. Same as everyone else. Truth is Scotland will likely be at the forefront of that as well.

 

Why are the Tories taxing green energy out of existence then?

 

 

That is not what I meant. How will we make revenue?

[frankblack]

I guess we will use that then. Same as everyone else. Truth is Scotland will likely be at the forefront of that as well.

 

Why are the Tories taxing green energy out of existence then?

 

What do you use to power the country when there is no or too much wind (these wind power machines have to be switched off with too much wind)?

 

Nuclear is still an essential base energy source and needs investment too.

[i8hibsh]

What do you use to power the country when there is no or too much wind (these wind power machines have to be switched off with too much wind)?

 

Nuclear is still an essential base energy source and needs investment too.

 

Shortbread.

[Pans Jambo]

What do you use to power the country when there is no or too much wind (these wind power machines have to be switched off with too much wind)?

 

Nuclear is still an essential base energy source and needs investment too.

I have said in other threads that a mixed power generating policy is the sensible way to go.

 

New technologies need found such as power storage though.

[aussieh]

Even funnier was the cry for full fiscal autonomy and when offered the SNP retreated as fast as they could.

Nonsense. More power, home rule, FFA it's not independence.

[Cruyff Turn]

What do you use to power the country when there is no or too much wind (these wind power machines have to be switched off with too much wind)?

 

Nuclear is still an essential base energy source and needs investment too.

Fukushima and Chernobyl are testament the how safe Nuclear Power is.

[Pans Jambo]

That is not what I meant. How will we make revenue?

Dunno mate, same as every other country on the planet!

 

Oh Aye, I forgot, we 'just canny dae it' without the overlords 4 hunner miles away!

 

The difference between us is I dont WANT to go cap in hand to Westminster. Scotland is not a third world country you know! 

[Malinga the Swinga]

I guess we will use that then. Same as everyone else. Truth is Scotland will likely be at the forefront of that as well.

 

Why are the Tories taxing green energy out of existence then?

And there you have the issue, you are immediately guessing. As with currency, economic policy, EU membership, education standards and most things, we are reliant on a guess. It makes no sense.

 

Wait until after Brexit is agreed and decided and then see what happens. If a referendum is still required, have it then.

[Pans Jambo]

That is not what I meant. How will we make revenue?

Also, You like to ask questions but not answer any. I asked a question on post 945.

[Pans Jambo]

And there you have the issue, you are immediately guessing. As with currency, economic policy, EU membership, education standards and most things, we are reliant on a guess. It makes no sense.

 

Wait until after Brexit is agreed and decided and then see what happens. If a referendum is still required, have it then.

I dont run the SNP or the Scottish Government mate. Lets wait and see what they they will offer before you jump to conclusions but someone asked me what I was going to do in 50 years when the oil runs out.

 

 

I will be either deed or soiling myself

[aussieh]

The Euro would have a massive negative impact on your life. Would employers want to pay two different currencies and tax systems to workers who are either side of the border?

 

If you fancy a weekend down south you would need to get currency to spend.

 

The main concern about the Independence is that we will become an economic backwater with all the top companies moving down south where the majority of their customers are. Unemployment would hit unprecedented levels. Maybe we could use "Scotland's Oil" to subsidise this, though?

 

Oh no, bank cards won't work post independence either. We're doomed. Oh and btw, England don't accept our money anyway. As for companies moving, they'll all move here for EU access.

[Scallywag]

Do you not think Scotland is idealy placed for renewable energy when oil runs down.

 

Sturgeon has outfoxed Mayhem. I expect May will say no to Indy Ref until after Brexit, negotiations will then be much more difficult because if the deal turns into a complete car crash (like many expect) Scotland will have a chance to get out. Also much more difficult to trade away Scottish Agriculture and Fisheries because the backlash could again boost the likliehood of Scottish independence.

 

The prospect of getting Tory governments we dont vote for into perpetuity should be enough to make most peoples minds up.

[AlphonseCapone]

But what concession can make up for Scotland voting Remain?

 

It cannot remain so what's the next step?

 

Many others in the UK feel the same way but the overall vote was to leave.

 

Plus, I voted Remain but don't want Indy so the figures are skewed in that respect.

I think devolved control over immigration possibly. It's been shown to work in Canada having divergent immigration policies across different areas there. The dismissal of it not being workable was too premature and indicated an unwillingness to even consider possible solutions at Westminster.

[The Don]

So this debt has all been racked up by the Scottish Parliament and the SNP?

 

With no financial powers whatsoever.

 

And somehow by staying in the Union, it is going to change Scotland for the better?

 

Are we suddenly going to get full Federalism and be given a share of our of the currency and the central bank? So we can run our own economy?

 

The Union has f*cked Scotland royally and you think that somehow we are better off being handed our pocket money by Westminster every year is somehow going to change the status quo.

 

You can debate finances until you are blue in the face, the constitutional question will remain because the UK does not work, it is undemocratic.

Do you know how those figures work? Do you actually understand them?

 

They are telling you that on average Scotland received ?1600 per head more in public spending than the rUK.

 

They are also telling you that monies raised in Scotland was well below what the Scottish government actually spent in the public sector. That's where the fiscal deficit comes from and those figures are only for 2015/16

 

Net fiscal deficit was ?14.8 billion 9.1% GDP more than twice the GDP of the rUK

 

Say goodbye to your free tuition, free prescriptions, etc in an independent Scotland. Welcome in huge tax rises and massive public spending cuts if we're to maintain how we currently live. Unless of course we can just magically create another 5 million jobs along with another 3 million homes and welcome in another 5 million working age migrants to pay taxes, which according to the SNP in their utopia is possible.

 

 

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[Doogz]

And there you have the issue, you are immediately guessing. As with currency, economic policy, EU membership, education standards and most things, we are reliant on a guess. It makes no sense.

 

Wait until after Brexit is agreed and decided and then see what happens. If a referendum is still required, have it then.

Yup, the sensible approach would have been to at least present a united front until Brexit negotiations (which haven't started yet) are complete - to ensure the UK (including Scotland) get the best deal possible - and see where that leaves us.

At the same time the SNP could have used some of the tax raising powers - and requesting new taxes if required, to demonstrate how the country could be improved under independence. If they would/could do this they would have a much better chance of winning over those currently undecided and at least soften the stance from some of the 'Better Togethers' if not win them over completely.

 

[GJamboR7]

Oil.

 

The price is low right now.

 

It will go up again.

 

Fact is, we have oil. scores of countries do not and they survive just fine.

 

Did oil pay for:

The M25

The London Underground Upgrades

The First 2 extensions to Heathrow

The Closure of the Heavy Industries in the UK (Coal, Steel, etc)

The Channel Tunnel

The Falklands War

The Iraq War

The Iraq Invasion

The War in Afghanistan

 

 

What did it pay for up here in the 'sick man of europe' land? and how much are we owed for all that wealth that flowed south of the border for the last 40 odd years?

Oil in the north east is done. It'll never get back to where it was pre oil price crash - especially if independence was confirmed.

 

The big players were ready to go pre IndyRef1 if Yes were to have won.

 

When the oil price plummeneted, they had an excuse to get out and a structure in place to downscale.

[Pans Jambo]

Yup, the sensible approach would have been to at least present a united front until Brexit negotiations (which haven't started yet) are complete - to ensure the UK (including Scotland) get the best deal possible - and see where that leaves us.

At the same time the SNP could have used some of the tax raising powers - and requesting new taxes if required, to demonstrate how the country could be improved under independence. If they would/could do this they would have a much better chance of winning over those currently undecided and at least soften the stance from some of the 'Better Togethers' if not win them over completely.

 

Eh, the Scottish Government were promised (as were all devolved nations) by May that we would be listened to. That didnt work out so what choice did Scotland have? Fluffy said we would get powers back from Brussels and they would be devolved. That was a lie too (seems its their MO).

 

What tax raising powers? Income tax? They didnt give out the additional 40% income tax band that the rUk is getting and they were slated for being 'the highest taxed part of the UK'. They cant win unless they go it alone.

[Pans Jambo]

Oil in the north east is done. It'll never get back to where it was pre oil price crash - especially if independence was confirmed.

 

The big players were ready to go pre IndyRef1 if Yes were to have won.

 

When the oil price plummeneted, they had an excuse to get out and a structure in place to downscale.

So wheres the cash gone for the last 40 odd years and what did Scotland benefit from it other than the north sea jobs at Aberdeen?

 

And if theres a global price hike? What happens then? Another oil boom. Never say never.

[aussieh]

Yup, the sensible approach would have been to at least present a united front until Brexit negotiations (which haven't started yet) are complete - to ensure the UK (including Scotland) get the best deal possible - and see where that leaves us.

At the same time the SNP could have used some of the tax raising powers - and requesting new taxes if required, to demonstrate how the country could be improved under independence. If they would/could do this they would have a much better chance of winning over those currently undecided and at least soften the stance from some of the 'Better Togethers' if not win them over completely.

 

Sorry Doogz, but do you really think wm are gonnae let Scotland thrive. They've Fecked Scotland so much people actually voted no. So forgive me if I say the best deal for Scotland is Independence.

[Space Mackerel]

Oil in the north east is done. It'll never get back to where it was pre oil price crash - especially if independence was confirmed.

 

The big players were ready to go pre IndyRef1 if Yes were to have won.

 

When the oil price plummeneted, they had an excuse to get out and a structure in place to downscale.

You should get yourself a job as a commodities broker if you're that sure.

 

You sure? I've heard otherwise from my mate, oil will be back up to $100 a barrel within 5 years.

 

There was announcement the other day that OPEC are all having a truce now and they are all to cut supply to force the price back up.

I'll guess in 2 years it will be $70-80 a barrel.

 

 

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[i8hibsh]

Also, You like to ask questions but not answer any. I asked a question on post 945.

 

Green energy one? Not sure they are tbh.  I do know that their manifesto of 2015 was their 'Greenest' one yet so happy enough. 

[Cruyff Turn]

Do you know how those figures work? Do you actually understand them?

 

They are telling you that on average Scotland received ?1600 per head more in public spending than the rUK.

 

They are also telling you that monies raised in Scotland was well below what the Scottish government actually spent in the public sector. That's where the fiscal deficit comes from and those figures are only for 2015/16

 

Net fiscal deficit was ?14.8 billion 9.1% GDP more than twice the GDP of the rUK

 

Say goodbye to your free tuition, free prescriptions, etc in an independent Scotland. Welcome in huge tax rises and massive public spending cuts if we're to maintain how we currently live. Unless of course we can just magically create another 5 million jobs along with another 3 million homes and welcome in another 5 million working age migrants to pay taxes, which according to the SNP in their utopia is possible.

 

 

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I know all this, no need to patronize.

 

As I said you can argue that until you are blue in the face. The constitutional question will not go away, the UK is undemocratic, it doesn't work.

 

I don't think anyone is under any illusion that public spending in Scotland needs to be drastically reigned in, I said that earlier in the thread.

 

Like I said in my reply, Scotland does not have control over its macro economy.

 

So how will any of that change within the Union?

 

It won't.

 

Up until 1997 Scotland didn't have control over anything.

 

Are you telling me that Scotland's deficit was racked up by powerless devolved Governments with no control over currency, borrowing or tax powers?

 

That the natural resources here weren't squandered away by Westminster, something we never had control over.

 

Again, like I said, we continue in this charade of a Union where Scotland is handed pocket money with no powers or we leave the Union and become part of the world biggest single market with much more economic power.

 

Nobody is saying everything will be rosie, but it isn't going to change within a one sided, undemocratic, medievil Union.

[Pans Jambo]

You should get yourself a job as a commodities broker if you're that sure.

 

You sure? I've heard otherwise from my mate, oil will be back up to $100 a barrel within 5 years.

 

There was announcement the other day that OPEC are all having a truce now and they are all to cut supply to force the price back up.

I'll guess in 2 years it will be $70-80 a barrel.

 

 

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Trump orders a preemptive strike on North Korea or Iran and the price of oil will double overnight. Who can truly say what will happen to the oil price over the next 5 - 10 years?

[Malinga the Swinga]

Trump orders a preemptive strike on North Korea or Iran and the price of oil will double overnight. Who can truly say what will happen to the oil price over the next 5 - 10 years?

so you are basing your hope for an oil price rise on a nuclear attack. If we have one of them, I reckon we will have a lot more to worry about than independence. Is that really how low we have sunk.

[Doogz]

Eh, the Scottish Government were promised (as were all devolved nations) by May that we would be listened to. That didnt work out so what choice did Scotland have? Fluffy said we would get powers back from Brussels and they would be devolved. That was a lie too (seems its their MO).

 

They were listened to - but the EU are pushing for a hard Brexit so that has to be Mays starting point in negotiations. Not what the First Minister wants to hear and I doubt what the Prime Minister wants, but if that is what the EU is pushing for then that has to be where we start. If during negotiations the EU stance softens it's possible that the UKs position will change too - but this is all speculation at this point.

 

What tax raising powers? Income tax? They didnt give out the additional 40% income tax band that the rUk is getting and they were slated for being 'the highest taxed part of the UK'. They cant win unless they go it alone.

 

Income Tax, Stamp duty & landfill tax are all available - plus as I mentioned the option to request new taxes: If we want to improve Scotland and show it can be better under independence why shouldn't we pay more - it's got to be worth it surely ? Particularly, if it can help persuade some of the undecided voters - a bigger %age win in an Indy Referendum would make the transition much easier for the whole country.

[Pans Jambo]

so you are basing your hope for an oil price rise on a nuclear attack. If we have one of them, I reckon we will have a lot more to worry about than independence. Is that really how low we have sunk.

No.

I merely pointed out that a butterfly farts and the petrol price goes up.

I didnt say Nuclear strike by the way...you did.

[Pans Jambo]

They were listened to - but the EU are pushing for a hard Brexit so that has to be Mays starting point in negotiations. Not what the First Minister wants to hear and I doubt what the Prime Minister wants, but if that is what the EU is pushing for then that has to be where we start. If during negotiations the EU stance softens it's possible that the UKs position will change too - but this is all speculation at this point.

 

 

Income Tax, Stamp duty & landfill tax are all available - plus as I mentioned the option to request new taxes: If we want to improve Scotland and show it can be better under independence why shouldn't we pay more - it's got to be worth it surely ? Particularly, if it can help persuade some of the undecided voters - a bigger %age win in an Indy Referendum would make the transition much easier for the whole country.

Blatantly they were not listened to. N.I. and Wales already making noises for their own Indy Ref.

 

The Scottish Government has already changed land fill tax and stamp duty has been increased for the millionaires houses.

 

Damned if they do, damned if they dont. Same old shite really.

 

As said above by another poster, the UK is broken and Scotland wont be a part of it for much longer.

[Malinga the Swinga]

No.

I merely pointed out that a butterfly farts and the petrol price goes up.

I didnt say Nuclear strike by the way...you did.

Fair enough, you want some sort of strike against North Korea or Iran, which will cause the death of thousands, in the hope that your dream can come true. Deary me, what a selfish person.

 

Oil is dying a death as a commodity, every expert knows it. There are replacement technologies all over the place, and it will never get back to what is was a few years ago. If anything, the price will come down as OPEC fragments, Russia produces more and US fracking kicks in.

[i8hibsh]

You should get yourself a job as a commodities broker if you're that sure.

 

You sure? I've heard otherwise from my mate, oil will be back up to $100 a barrel within 5 years.

 

There was announcement the other day that OPEC are all having a truce now and they are all to cut supply to force the price back up.

I'll guess in 2 years it will be $70-80 a barrel.

 

 

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Great, 5 years time.  What about in 6 years?

[Malinga the Swinga]

 

As said above by another poster, the UK is broken and Scotland wont be a part of it for much longer.

yes it will, when No wins again. Will you accept defeat this time?

[coconut doug]

You have just described socialists .  No shock that the majority of Nat supporters are on the take in life.

The Barnet formula. What are you going to do when this stops or reduces to a very small trickle? You'll have to learn to stand on your own two feet and so you might as well start now.

 

You have no evidence for your slur either.

[Malinga the Swinga]

You should get yourself a job as a commodities broker if you're that sure.

You sure? I've heard otherwise from my mate, oil will be back up to $100 a barrel within 5 years.

There was announcement the other day that OPEC are all having a truce now and they are all to cut supply to force the price back up.

I'll guess in 2 years it will be $70-80 a barrel.

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funny how it is always second hand info and never from horses mouth. In any case, you are the poster who accused the US of faking 9/11, of killing its own citizens, of firing a missile at the pentagon and planting bodies around the site. You believe they killed their own people as part of a conspiracy that you know about but that no one else, bar a couple of other dafties, has uncovered. After that, nothing you say matters not can be listened to.

 

You are an imbecile.

[GJamboR7]

You should get yourself a job as a commodities broker if you're that sure.

 

You sure? I've heard otherwise from my mate, oil will be back up to $100 a barrel within 5 years.

 

There was announcement the other day that OPEC are all having a truce now and they are all to cut supply to force the price back up.

I'll guess in 2 years it will be $70-80 a barrel.

 

 

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Correct me if wrong, but I'm positive I've not said that the price of oil will not rise again? If I'm wrong, point it out please.

[Doogz]

Blatantly they were not listened to.

 

That is your opinion only - May has listened, how much she has taken on board remains to be seen. This may become clearer during the Brexit negotiations - but we're also dependant on how the EU allow those discussions to progress.

[Space Mackerel]

Trump orders a preemptive strike on North Korea or Iran and the price of oil will double overnight. Who can truly say what will happen to the oil price over the next 5 - 10 years?

 

Oil pricers wise rise, theres a slight upwards trend going on just now since it hit rock bottom.

And i'd rather take advice guidance of a CEO involved in the production and development of the stuff than a few folks on here. 

[Space Mackerel]

Great, 5 years time.  What about in 6 years?

 

Check out the peaks and troughs of the prices last 30 years.

 

Yer man Trump is wanting to make America Great Again, he'll be wanting plenty of the stuff in the future.

[coconut doug]

Not totally doubting you but I would be very very surprised if nothing was invested.

 

 

A bit like an oil fund or a magic money tree. The U.K. is run by a bunch of Craig Whytes. The season ticket money and pie stand revenue has been given to the rich in tax cuts for the next 25 seasons. It's called PFI. There is nothing invested and very few national assets left. We will soon be trading on less favourable terms with almost everybody. It's only going to get worse. 

[Space Mackerel]

Correct me if wrong, but I'm positive I've not said that the price of oil will not rise again? If I'm wrong, point it out please.

 

You said oil was finished. North Sea oil is in decline I agree but there are other reserves out there. West coast is meant to be just as large as Kuwait. Maybe thats why they are desperate to hold on to Scotland, just in case there are? 

 

https://www.oilandgaspeople.com/news/1039/scottish-west-coast-untapped-oil-and-gas-reserves-worth-trillions/

[Jambo-Jimbo]

And there you have the issue, you are immediately guessing. As with currency, economic policy, EU membership, education standards and most things, we are reliant on a guess. It makes no sense.

 

Wait until after Brexit is agreed and decided and then see what happens. If a referendum is still required, have it then.

 

This is true, what happens and I know it's a huge if, but what happens if at the end of Brexit the UK still has free trade access to the Single Market, and nothing has changed with that point.

 

That nullifies the SNP's argument for indyref2 does it not?  And Sturgeon has shot herself big time in the foot, and made the rest of Scotland look pretty foolish as well.

 

It is very much unlikely to happen, but as none of us know what the deal or no deal is going to be at the end it can't be dismissed out of hand.

[GJamboR7]

You said oil was finished. North Sea oil is in decline I agree but there are other reserves out there. West coast is meant to be just as large as Kuwait. Maybe thats why they are desperate to hold on to Scotland, just in case there are?

 

https://www.oilandgaspeople.com/news/1039/scottish-west-coast-untapped-oil-and-gas-reserves-worth-trillions/

Wrong yet again. I said north east oil is done, which it is. They will not get back to peak production levels.

[Malinga the Swinga]

Check out the peaks and troughs of the prices last 30 years.

 

Yer man Trump is wanting to make America Great Again, he'll be wanting plenty of the stuff in the future.

he will use fracking and nuclear to supplement their own oil. With the tax breaks he will give the companies, the price will remain low (ish). As you have a make believe mate who is apparently the CEO of an oil company, you would have thought he would have known that.

 

In any case, you are delusional and a conspiracy theorist. You are an imbecile.

[jambo lodge]

Nonsense. More power, home rule, FFA it's not independence.

 

If the SNP could not live within their own budgets under FFA what does that tell you about potential for future independence.

[Space Mackerel]

he will use fracking and nuclear to supplement their own oil. With the tax breaks he will give the companies, the price will remain low (ish). As you have a make believe mate who is apparently the CEO of an oil company, you would have thought he would have known that.

 

In any case, you are delusional and a conspiracy theorist. You are an imbecile.

 

I was out with him after the Scotland v Wales rugby game and I'm off to his gaff in Geneva in May for a weekend. Ive kent him since I was 4. Went to nursery school, primary and secondary with him Whys that so hard to believe? Ive got mates who are plumbers, joiners and painters and decorators too. 

 

Who do you hang about with in your spare time?