Even More SNP Nonsense

[Space Mackerel]

23 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

In what way has the SNP not respected a referendum result?

What the SNP REALLY should do is do what Farage has done and renamed themselves the Independent Party for Scotsmania. 
 

Just like he has by changing The Brexit Party in Reform. 
 

 

 

 

 

[Space Mackerel]

10 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Good shout. 

But he won, why won’t he listen? 

[frankblack]

47 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

In what way has the SNP not respected a referendum result?

 

The Brexit referendum where they pretended that it was a Scottish referendum result to make the figures suit their argument + tried to vote it down thereafter at every chance.

Edited December 19, 2019 by frankblack

[Nucky Thompson]

I just read that fat twat Ian Blackford is a Hobo. I knew by looking at him that there was something not right about him.

Gives me an excuse to hate the smarmy Hibs tool even more

[coconut doug]

14 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

1- 2014

2 -2016.

 

Twice in a row. 

 

These are years, they don't tell us how the SNP didn't respect the referendum.

[coconut doug]

37 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

The Brexit referendum where they pretended that it was a Scottish referendum result to make the figures suit their argument + tried to vote it down thereafter at every chance.

 

I seem to remember that immediately after the result the SNP got together to create their best least damaging form of Brexit i.e one that did least damage to Scotland. i also remember they invited other progressive parties to contribute but Libs and Labs wouldn't. It didn't really matter in the end since their proposals were rejected out of hand anyway as each faction of the Tory party and DUP pursued their own particular Brexit favourite. Are you telling us that because the SNP did not support all of these that they were undemocratic and not supporting the will of the people? 

 

Were there any political parties or groups in Westminster that supported all manifestations of Brexit?  Maybe you could tell us who they are, if they exist.

 

Don't you think it is a little undemocratic to expect the SNP to actively pursue a hard Brexit when every local Authority and probably every constituency in Scotland voted to remain.

 

Are you suggesting that by voting against the wishes and interests of their constituents the SNP would be respecting the will of the people. Is it not democratic to allow parties that do not support another parties policies to oppose them?

 

Surely by your logic the only position that respects the result and upholds the wishes of the people would have been an immediate  No Deal Brexit since there was no majority for anything else.

[coconut doug]

5 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

TL;DR 👍

 

Hyperbole printed to sell newspapers.

 

The bold bit talks about a united Ireland but doesn't cover the hard border the SNP would need to build and control with England.  How are those plans going?

 

Why would the SNP have to build and control a hard border with England?

[frankblack]

Just now, coconut doug said:

 

I seem to remember that immediately after the result the SNP got together to create their best least damaging form of Brexit i.e one that did least damage to Scotland. i also remember they invited other progressive parties to contribute but Libs and Labs wouldn't. It didn't really matter in the end since their proposals were rejected out of hand anyway as each faction of the Tory party and DUP pursued their own particular Brexit favourite. Are you telling us that because the SNP did not support all of these that they were undemocratic and not supporting the will of the people? 

 

The SNP had no right to tell the government what form of Brexit to pursue and were rightly dismissed after being heard out.

 

Just now, coconut doug said:

Were there any political parties or groups in Westminster that supported all manifestations of Brexit?  Maybe you could tell us who they are, if they exist.

 

Paper only said Leave or Remain.  Implementation details up to the government.

 

Just now, coconut doug said:

Don't you think it is a little undemocratic to expect the SNP to actively pursue a hard Brexit when every local Authority and probably every constituency in Scotland voted to remain.

 

Their intransigence  in taking their stance nearly forced a hard brexit, and got rid of Theresa May.

 

Just now, coconut doug said:

Are you suggesting that by voting against the wishes and interests of their constituents the SNP would be respecting the will of the people. Is it not democratic to allow parties that do not support another parties policies to oppose them?

 

The democratic mandate was given by the result of the referendum, and trying to section the result into regions, cities, streets, or house numbers is an invalid argument.

 

Just now, coconut doug said:

Surely by your logic the only position that respects the result and upholds the wishes of the people would have been an immediate  No Deal Brexit since there was no majority for anything else.

 

As above it was a Leave or Remain with the type of brexit to be negotiated with the EU.

[frankblack]

2 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Why would the SNP have to build and control a hard border with England?

 

As demonstrated in Ireland they would need a border as the UK is outwith the EU.

 

Scotland would be the ones leaving the UK and looking to join the EU so I'd imagine that border would be a prerequisite for entry.

[coconut doug]

2 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

The SNP, and many SNP/ScotGP voters, have blatantly disrespected referendum results twice.

 

Firstly, in and since 2014, the Scottish Independence referendum. Since then, Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP have embarked on a course that attempts to overturn the democratic will of the people of Scotland, expressed through a fair vote, that included pretty much everyone that lived in Scotland at that time, both in it's 84% turnout, and that it included all registered voters.

 

Secondly, in and since 2016, Nicola Sturgeon and many supporters of Scottish Independence, have blatantly disregarded the democratic will of the United Kingdom in their decision to leave the European Union. They have done this in service of overturning the democratic will of the people of Scotland in 2014. 

 

 

 

The SNP by producing proposals for a least damaging Brexit for Scotland have respected the result. Not only have they not "blatantly disregarded" the vote of the UK people they have attempted a compromise which was designed to be inclusive. Others have recklessly pursued their own narrow agenda. There is no mandate any particular form of Brexit though, is there?

 

SNP and SG again have not blatantly disrespected the Indyref vote either. They lost the Indy vote and we carry on as members of the UK. We get to have another go at persuading people that Independence is better than dependence that's the way democracy works. Independence is at the forefront of all Westminster and Holyrood elections so why not clarify things in another referendum?  If you don't like it don't vote for it. A lot of things have changed since Indyref not least impending Brexit to deny the people their right to express their opinion on these changes is undemocratic. It doesn't seem though that Unionists have enough faith in their own arguments though or surely they would just allow the expression of this updated opinion rather than pretend that everybody still has the same opinions they had 5 years ago.

The Conservative Party has been rejected in Scotland for 17 consecutive elections, what makes them think they have the right to keep asking us to vote for them, surely that's blatant disrespect?

[coconut doug]

17 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Because Scotland, under the leadership of Nicola Sturgeon, would seek to join the EU, without a referendum on an iScotland joining the EU. 

 

We've had a referendum on the EU. Its not like the last time where we were told voting Yes puts us out the EU. If Scotland votes for Indy then surely everybody realises that joining the EU is a part of that. It's clear SNP/Green policy.

 

That in itself in no way necessitates a hard border between Scotland and England anyway unless you are anticipating a No Deal for RUK.

[coconut doug]

1 minute ago, Zlatanable said:

1- Scotland voted by a noticeable margin to continue being part of the United Kingdom. 

2- The SNP and SNP voters et al, have never stopped disregarding both the democratic results of both referenda, but also the majority of people in Scotland in their intention and actions. 

1. We know this, that's why we are still part of the UK. We are trying to change it through persuasion, elections and any other legal and democratic means at our disposal. We are entitled to do this, it is democratic. To deny the people the right to do this is undemocratic and a form of oppression. If your arguments are good enough, let them stand up at the ballot box, not to do so is to risk denying the will of the people.

 

2 I don't understand your point. 

[coconut doug]

3 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Voting for Scottish Independence in 2014 would have put Scotland outside the EU.

Voting for Scottish Independence in 2020 will probably mean we remain outside the EU. 

Are you against the actual reality of the circumstances of democratic referendums and votes?

 

You don't know this for sure. Why are you saying it was a certainty in 2014 but in 2020 it's only a probability, what has changed.

 

Of course i respect reality and democratic referendums. I also like truth and honesty but i was lied to in both referenda but i accept that but only if i have the right to continue to democratically oppose the decisions. Politicians can't expect to win elections and referenda by campaigning on falsehoods and then clinging to power for long periods of time  when these falsehoods are exposed.

[coconut doug]

5 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

1- I am glad to see you believe in democracy. 

 

2- The majority of people don't support Nicola, The SNP, Scot Greens. The majority of people in Scotland since 2014 have continually supported Scotland in the United Kingdom. Please respect that. 

 

The majority of people in Scotland since 2014 did not and do not support Scotland being in the United Kingdom. 

[coconut doug]

48 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

The SNP had no right to tell the government what form of Brexit to pursue and were rightly dismissed after being heard out.

 

The SNP didn't tell anybody anything. It was a consultation document.

Paper only said Leave or Remain.  Implementation details up to the government.

 

Implementation up to parliament. That's where govt bills are scrutinised and amended.

 

 

Their intransigence  in taking their stance nearly forced a hard brexit, and got rid of Theresa May.

They had 33 out of 650 MPs. They must have exerted more influence than i realised. At no time was there any chance of parliament voting for a NO Deal Brexit and had it come by default then it would have been democratic. No Deal is just around the corner now though.

 

48 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

 

The democratic mandate was given by the result of the referendum, and trying to section the result into regions, cities, streets, or house numbers is an invalid argument.

For countries though it is a different matter. We are supposed to be a union of equals. A lot of consideration for N Ireland but none for Scotland.

 

 

As above it was a Leave or Remain with the type of brexit to be negotiated with the EU.

If you have such faith in representative parliamentary democracy, why do you keep going on about the will of the people? Nobody knows what kind of Brexit they wanted so opposing any particular form is perfectly democratic in a representative democracy.

 

[coconut doug]

10 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Scotland hasn't ever majoritively supported Scottish Independence. 

 

As far as we know but if we leave the EU Indyref 2 might deliver that majority.

 

[gjcc]

1 minute ago, coconut doug said:

 

As far as we know but if we leave the EU Indyref 2 might deliver that majority.

 

Aye but, apparently, allowing folk a chance to change their mind after a significant change of circumstance is undemocratic.  

[coconut doug]

2 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

This decade has had three referendums. 

None of them are likely to be overturned. 

Ask people in Britain what they think, they will tell you, first time. 

 

And the next time you ask them they will tell you something else, first time.

[coconut doug]

5 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

This decade has had three referenda.

We voted. We decided. 

 

Please stop trying to overturn democracy. 

 

That's the democracy where you don't get to campaign and you don't get to vote forever it seems. 

 

There's more to democracy than voting and you don't get to decide what is and is not democratic.

[coconut doug]

1 minute ago, Zlatanable said:

Do you live in Scotland?

I do.

I have voted in 4 general elections, 3 referendums, 2 Scottish Parliament elections, 3 council elections (I think) and 2 European Elections in the last 9 years.

 

Please don't say there is a lack of democracy. 

 

I haven't, it is you who is telling us "We voted. We decided". When do we get to decide again? and Why are you saying that we should not be advancing our views as is our democratic right?

[Pans Jambo]

A few arses collapsing on here I see.

 

 

[SE16 3LN]

7 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

The worldwide economy has stagnated after the GFC of 2008,  check the interest rates around the world, theyre all hovering around 1% with some banks in Sweden and Switzerland offering Negative rates for borrowers.

 

Nothing to do with Brexit.

Very interesting, but not relevant to risk denial from the various nationalist seperatist movements.

[coconut doug]

1 minute ago, Zlatanable said:

We voted to keep First Past the Post in 2011, by a majority.

We voted to be the United Kingdom et al, in 2014, by a majority. 

We Voted to Leave the European Union in 2016, by a majority. 

 

I don't like referendums, I prefer continual General Elections. 

 

We all know this, but ther is more to democracy than isolated votes.

 

When do we get to choose again?

 

Why are we not allowed to argue and campaign against these referendum decisions?

 

Isn't that particularly salient for those who a) don't like referenda b) don't believe or accept the some of the arguments made in the referenda c) those who were not able to vote in the referenda.

 

What about the false choice of the AV referendum? Why did we not get the choice of proper PR? Many think if we had PR we would not be in the debacle we are now. Are we not allowed to argue for PR because we voted against AV in 2011?

 

If Brexit turns into a disaster and the EU says come back, in are we not allowed to consider it?

 

Do we still have to respect the views of those who are no longer with us?

 

 

[Boof]

2 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

As demonstrated in Ireland they would need a border as the UK is outwith the EU.

 

Scotland would be the ones leaving the UK and looking to join the EU so I'd imagine that border would be a prerequisite for entry.

 

Would that border be as hard as, just as a couple of examples, the border between Norway and Sweden or the one between Norway and Finland?

[frankblack]

3 minutes ago, Boof said:

 

Would that border be as hard as, just as a couple of examples, the border between Norway and Sweden or the one between Norway and Finland?

 

Depends on the EU.  They obviously had problems with NI.

[coconut doug]

4 minutes ago, Boof said:

 

Would that border be as hard as, just as a couple of examples, the border between Norway and Sweden or the one between Norway and Finland?

 

I'm still pondering whether you are doolally or not. Perhaps we could get a Wurzil to answer your question.

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

The SNP had no right to tell the government what form of Brexit to pursue and were rightly dismissed after being heard out.

 

The SNP didn't tell anybody anything. It was a consultation document.

 

The impartiality and scope of the consultation is highly questionable.

 

Paper only said Leave or Remain.  Implementation details up to the government.

 

Implementation up to parliament. That's where govt bills are scrutinised and amended.

 

Government is responsible for implementation.  They can now do this as the remainers are outnumbered.

 

1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

  48 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

 

The democratic mandate was given by the result of the referendum, and trying to section the result into regions, cities, streets, or house numbers is an invalid argument.

For countries though it is a different matter. We are supposed to be a union of equals. A lot of consideration for N Ireland but none for Scotland.

 

 

NI was used as a bargaining chip by the EU to stall and block based on the troubles.  Comparison not valid with Scotland.

 

1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

 

As above it was a Leave or Remain with the type of brexit to be negotiated with the EU.

If you have such faith in representative parliamentary democracy, why do you keep going on about the will of the people? Nobody knows what kind of Brexit they wanted so opposing any particular form is perfectly democratic in a representative democracy.

 

That wasn't on the ballot paper so was for the government to negotiate.  Paper was a binary leave/remain choice.

 

1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

 

Their intransigence  in taking their stance nearly forced a hard brexit, and got rid of Theresa May.

They had 33 out of 650 MPs. They must have exerted more influence than i realised. At no time was there any chance of parliament voting for a NO Deal Brexit and had it come by default then it would have been democratic. No Deal is just around the corner now though.

 

Not just the SNP but a cross party remainer alliance.  A lot of these people lost their seats so justice served.

[Boof]

12 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Depends on the EU.  They obviously had problems with NI.

 

You stated as if it were a cast-iron guaranteed fact "they would need a border as the UK is out with the EU".

 

Then you soften to "I'd imagine that border would be a prerequisite for entry."

 

I've managed to give two examples where it clearly isn't the case that any form of border control exists so perhaps you'd do us all a favour and cease the tabloidesque speculative scaremongering.

 

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by Boof

[coconut doug]

3 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Government is responsible for implementation.  They can now do this as the remainers are outnumbered.

Are you telling us it is improper for parliamentarians to challenge the government and seek to amend bills?

It seems Remainers are now outnumbered, that's democracy, see Indyref2.

 

NI was used as a bargaining chip by the EU to stall and block based on the troubles.  Comparison not valid with Scotland.

The EU used NI did they? Why did rUK not tell them to think again? Who knew the backstop was an EU invention?

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/the-backstop-was-a-british-proposal-not-one-tabled-by-ireland-or-the-eu-1.3761566

 

UK has special arrangements for DUP creationist palsbut not for Scotland.

 

That wasn't on the ballot paper so was for the government to negotiate.  Paper was a binary leave/remain choice.

 

That's what i said. That's why i said there was no mandate for any Brexit including the ERG/DUP version you seem so fond of  

 

Not just the SNP but a cross party remainer alliance.  A lot of these people lost their seats so justice served.

Democracy is applied showing a wider than ever disparity between the wishes of Scotland and RUK. Even more reason to test our opinions on Indy.

 

What do you know of the consultation document and whether or not it was presented in good faith?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Space Mackerel]

How come we haven’t left the EU yet when we voted for it in TWO THOUSAND AND SIXTEEN and we aren’t on WTO????
 

I demand to be on WTO, Mr Farage says it was the best. He is Mr BRITISH! 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 I Am BRITISH. 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 I read it in the Daily Express. 

So there. 

[Space Mackerel]

And Could WEE JIMMIE KRANKIE get on with the DAY JOB????

 

I know she keeps getting re-elected time and time again with massive majorities BUT I AM RIGHT AND EVERYONE IS WRONG. 

 

Respect democracy!!!!! 

[Space Mackerel]

Scotland is a REGION of the United Kingdom! It was and never will be a COUNTRY! EVER! 
 

This mandate is NONSENSE, Boris Johnson’s ISN’T. Because I say so.

 

The Queensferry Crossing has been a COMPLETE DISASTER. 

 

etc etc etc etc etc...

[manaliveits105]

Are we seriously being asked to trust our future to someone who was mentored by Alex Salmond 

[Space Mackerel]

5 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Are we seriously being asked to trust our future to someone who was mentored by Alex Salmond 

ALEX SALMOND’s trial is GONNA STOP INDY.

 

etc etc etc etc....

[Roxy Hearts]

20 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Are we seriously being asked to trust our future to someone who was mentored by Alex Salmond 

What's he done? 

[Space Mackerel]

7 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

What's he done? 

I BELIEVE that a person is innocent, good old BRITISH 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 justice!!!!!! Except this is under a SEPARATIST Scottish judicial system!!!!

 

Guilty as charged! Roll on Britannia 

[Space Mackerel]

And, if Alex Slamond is CHARGED,  that means we get a THREE POINT start next election. Bees UP! 
 

ITS IN THE NEW RULZ! 

[annushorribilis III]

4 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

We all know this, but ther is more to democracy than isolated votes.

 

When do we get to choose again?

 

Why are we not allowed to argue and campaign against these referendum decisions?

 

Isn't that particularly salient for those who a) don't like referenda b) don't believe or accept the some of the arguments made in the referenda c) those who were not able to vote in the referenda.

 

What about the false choice of the AV referendum? Why did we not get the choice of proper PR? Many think if we had PR we would not be in the debacle we are now. Are we not allowed to argue for PR because we voted against AV in 2011?

 

If Brexit turns into a disaster and the EU says come back, in are we not allowed to consider it?

 

Do we still have to respect the views of those who are no longer with us?

 

 

Two very good points. Looking forward to the replies. 

[Nucky Thompson]

7 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

And Could WEE JIMMIE KRANKIE get on with the DAY JOB????

 

I know she keeps getting re-elected time and time again with massive majorities BUT I AM RIGHT AND EVERYONE IS WRONG. 

 

Respect democracy!!!!! 

It wasn't a massive majority at the last Scottish election, you know, the place where Nippy's day job is

I think she will struggle at the next Scottish elections in 2021 as her party are not doing their job of running the country properly.

Westminster is a different kettle of fish where people are voting SNP to send a message down there

[Ainsley Harriott]

9 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

The majority of people in Scotland since 2014 did not and do not support Scotland being in the United Kingdom. 

The fact that independence supporting parties draw less than 50% of votes would suggest your talking tosh. Do you have anything other than a poll for the Nationalist to suggest otherwise?

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said:

It wasn't a massive majority at the last Scottish election, you know, the place where Nippy's day job is

I think she will struggle at the next Scottish elections in 2021 as her party are not doing their job of running the country properly.

Westminster is a different kettle of fish where people are voting SNP to send a message down there

People keep saying that and they keep wiping the floor with everyone. 
BJ, brexit, refusal to play ball and constantly giving them the grievances they need and in my honest opinion they’ll completely clean up in a couple of years. 
This blind refusal to see things coming down the tracks is the unionist parties and their supporters downfall. 
Only my opinion of course. 

[coconut doug]

2 hours ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

The fact that independence supporting parties draw less than 50% of votes would suggest your talking tosh. Do you have anything other than a poll for the Nationalist to suggest otherwise?

 

How about the 2014 independence referendum?

 

What is a poll for the Nationalist?

[annushorribilis III]

47 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

People keep saying that and they keep wiping the floor with everyone. 
BJ, brexit, refusal to play ball and constantly giving them the grievances they need and in my honest opinion they’ll completely clean up in a couple of years. 
This blind refusal to see things coming down the tracks is the unionist parties and their supporters downfall. 
Only my opinion of course. 

I'm pretty much in tune with this. I was pro independence (fell out of favour with the idea but have recently changed my mind - again)  , no longer live in Scotland but remain keenly interested  : moreso since my family , who were staunchly against , following the Brexit/BJ coup have become very much in favour of independence.  These days I ask myself frequently, do Scots have no self respect, sense of worth ? How can they continue to allow themselves to be treated like this ? Independence just seems inevitable - it's that or a lifetime of rule by the likes of BJ & his chums. 

[manaliveits105]

Its fantastic that  our auld nawbags are living far longer than expected and clinging on to ensure Jimmy Krankie will never get her way.- God Bless them .

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, annushorribilis III said:

I'm pretty much in tune with this. I was pro independence (fell out of favour with the idea but have recently changed my mind - again)  , no longer live in Scotland but remain keenly interested  : moreso since my family , who were staunchly against , following the Brexit/BJ coup have become very much in favour of independence.  These days I ask myself frequently, do Scots have no self respect, sense of worth ? How can they continue to allow themselves to be treated like this ? Independence just seems inevitable - it's that or a lifetime of rule by the likes of BJ & his chums. 

I come from a pretty staunch family (bigots you could really say ) and I’m surrounded by staunch friends lol but that’s what turned me. My old granny would’ve been my only likely ally in my family. 
100% I feel the same way as you. 

[annushorribilis III]

11 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

You don't know this for sure. Why are you saying it was a certainty in 2014 but in 2020 it's only a probability, what has changed.

 

Of course i respect reality and democratic referendums. I also like truth and honesty but i was lied to in both referenda but i accept that but only if i have the right to continue to democratically oppose the decisions. Politicians can't expect to win elections and referenda by campaigning on falsehoods and then clinging to power for long periods of time  when these falsehoods are exposed.

It hasn't done BJ/ERG/Tories any harm.  SNP should campaign on the stuff that Brexit won on* - 

take back control, be a law maker not a law taker , do own trade deals, independence day. 

 

I would love to see Blackford throw that into the Westminster arguments that pass for PMQ. 

 

*I am joking : would love to see SNP taunt the Tories with it tho, just once. 

[annushorribilis III]

7 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Its fantastic that  our auld nawbags are living far longer than expected and clinging on to ensure Jimmy Krankie will never get her way.- God Bless them .

Regardless of your politics - why are your posts on this topic so pathetically & deliberately childish ? 

[coconut doug]

1 minute ago, annushorribilis III said:

It hasn't done BJ/ERG/Tories any harm.  SNP should campaign on the stuff that Brexit won on* - 

take back control, be a law maker not a law taker , do own trade deals, independence day. 

 

I would love to see Blackford throw that into the Westminster arguments that pass for PMQ. 

 

*I am joking : would love to see SNP taunt the Tories with it tho, just once. 

 

We could hire a bus and drive it round Scotland with huge numbers on the side and a promise to spend it on the NHS when Indy happens. 

Then go to England with a list of all the free stuff we currently get on the side and how much the English taxpayer is subsidising us. 

 

Game over - Indy in a week! 

[annushorribilis III]

Just now, coconut doug said:

 

We could hire a bus and drive it round Scotland with huge numbers on the side and a promise to spend it on the NHS when Indy happens. 

Then go to England with a list of all the free stuff we currently get on the side and how much the English taxpayer is subsidising us. 

 

Game over - Indy in a week! 

I think the bus idea lacks subtlety 🙄

[coconut doug]

9 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

I think the bus idea lacks subtlety 🙄

 

It's perfect then.