Even More SNP Nonsense

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Frank, are you too poor, too wee, too stupid to leave home?

 

No.  I left home when I had a stable job and savings to cover the deposit on the mortgage.

 

For me to buy the house it was subject to a number of factors being scrutinised - my ability to repay the mortgage and the valuation and survey not finding nasty surprises.

 

You picked a terrible analogy for your argument there as that basically fits my earlier posts asking for transparency and scrutiny of the details.

- Hard border position 

- Currency 

- Expected wait time to meet EU entry requirements after leaving UK.

- Austerity - how long? Some predictions were 10 years.

- etc.

[Space Mackerel]

6 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

I never questioned you on your allegiances and history. 

I asked you if you are tired of calling fellow Hearts fans and fellow Scots names? Because it is exhausting to read. 

The whole Labour support within Scottish council schemes have moved to Indy more or less.

 

Its time. 

[Space Mackerel]

2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

No.  I left home when I had a stable job and savings to cover the deposit on the mortgage.

 

For me to buy the house it was subject to a number of factors being scrutinised - my ability to repay the mortgage and the valuation and survey not finding nasty surprises.

 

You picked a terrible analogy for your argument there as that basically fits my earlier posts asking for transparency and scrutiny of the details.

- Hard border position 

- Currency 

- Expected wait time to meet EU entry requirements after leaving UK.

- Austerity - how long? Some predictions were 10 years.

- etc.

How would you like the contact details of 2 IFA’s and and Indy supporting mortgage advisor that I know?

Im absolutely minted too.

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, Roxy Hearts said:

That's fairly factual. Most sensible thing I've seen in a while by a unionist. 

 

So you'll be in the under 70 grouping then. 

[Space Mackerel]

23 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Take care of yourself. 

The perfect head in the sands post.

 

[Space Mackerel]

14 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

So you'll be in the under 70 grouping then. 

Hey, I worked with the SBS back in the 90’s, how come your profile photo is like this? 
 

 

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

How would you like the contact details of 2 IFA’s and and Indy supporting mortgage advisor that I know?

Im absolutely minted too.

 

 

I think I would be looking at unbiased scrutiny of the SNP's policies than your mates from the boozer. 👍

[Pans Jambo]

I’ll tell you what. If you want to find out about the details of an independent Scotland’s currency or whether a hard border will be constructed right across the UK with border posts, military border officers and a “de-militarised” zone then you need to be reading up about it on a football forum prior to voting for it. Similar to what happened before the UK left the EU!!!

[Pans Jambo]

Just now, Zlatanable said:

Have you ever given money to Wings over Scotland? and if you have, how much money have you 'donated'?

Have ah feck!

weird question to ask 😂

[Pans Jambo]

1 minute ago, Zlatanable said:

You don't have The Wee Blue Book?

No. 
I donate to FoH and thats about it. 
Local charities from time to time. 
Until large charities stop giving CEO’s 6 figures and new Range Rovers theyre getting hee haw!

 

Do you want me to ask you whats in the “wee blue book”???

[Pans Jambo]

1 minute ago, Zlatanable said:

You seem to be a Wings Over Scotland type of Scottish Nationalist. I'll take your word for it.

 

I don't want you to do anything other than be decent, and honest, and as respectful to other people as you can be.   

Not affiliated with any political parties/movements.

I vote SNP as a means to an end i.e. Scottish Independence. 
After thats done, I (like many others) will likely vote for whatever party has the best policies.

I think the SNP would likely splinter in any case. Look at UKIP as an example.

 

(Never voting for the tories though, they can just suck on it).

[Space Mackerel]

So, some Rangers supporters like being under control of the Queen.

 

Thanks for your input. 

[Pans Jambo]

12 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Fairly standard UKIP type stuff. 

What is?

[Space Mackerel]

Who you’ve never met 😃

[Pans Jambo]

So will there be a North Korea type de-militarised zone at Berwick when Scotland goes it alone politically?

 

We need to know!!!

 

Also, will I still be able to fly to Birmingham for my work & if so, will I be held in a Clearance cell when I land until my passport has been checked?

 

Also, how will the swifts, swallows and other migrating birds be able to come here in the spring???

[Pans Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Your reply, UK/S independence type stuff. 

 

'Not affiliated with any political parties/movements.

I vote SNP as a means to an end i.e. Scottish Independence. 
After thats done, I (like many others) will likely vote for whatever party has the best policies.

I think the SNP would likely splinter in any case. Look at UKIP as an example.'

 

Sorry, I dont get it. 
Do you mean my reply was a UKIP type reply?

[Pans Jambo]

14 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

I meant your reply was a UKIP type reply , yes. 

Because you both exist to separate current bonds, in the belief that doing so will unleash freedom and self determination. 

Fair enough. 
Edit: Not separate any bonds though. Just the political tie in with Westminster. 

Edited December 30, 2019 by Pans Jambo

[Space Mackerel]

Is it racist to be anti English but anti hibs?

 

Even though half my pals are hibs pals? 
 

And I served with English pals in the services? 😃

[jumpship]

The McCrone report is a document on the Scottish economy written and researched in 1974 on behalf of the British Government. It was composed by Professor Gavin McCrone employed at the Scottish Office. The document gave a highly favourable projection for the economy of an independent Scotland with a "chronic surplus to a quite embarrassing degree and its currency would become the hardest in Europe". This led successive iterations of the British government to classify the McCrone report as "secret". This was so to avoid fuelling independence sentiment in Scotland. The report became public in 2005 when new freedom of information legislation came into effect.^[1][2]

[jumpship]

Scotland found oil around the same time as Norway. 

 

Today Norway sits with £1.5 trillion in the bank

 

Today Scotland sits with a share of £1.5 trillion debt... 

 

 

 

[Space Mackerel]

2 minutes ago, jumpship said:

The McCrone report is a document on the Scottish economy written and researched in 1974 on behalf of the British Government. It was composed by Professor Gavin McCrone employed at the Scottish Office. The document gave a highly favourable projection for the economy of an independent Scotland with a "chronic surplus to a quite embarrassing degree and its currency would become the hardest in Europe". This led successive iterations of the British government to classify the McCrone report as "secret". This was so to avoid fuelling independence sentiment in Scotland. The report became public in 2005 when new freedom of information legislation came into effect.^[1][2]

 

It’s the opposite of Hearts fans believing in Hearts. They’d much rather believing in ...

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

I’ll tell you what. If you want to find out about the details of an independent Scotland’s currency or whether a hard border will be constructed right across the UK with border posts, military border officers and a “de-militarised” zone then you need to be reading up about it on a football forum prior to voting for it. Similar to what happened before the UK left the EU!!!

 

So let me understand it, you are complaining about Brexit being a complete mess and want to repeat that for Independence?

 

Are there lessons to be learned here?  Maybe the UK government will make a confirmatory vote on a deal a requirement for future referendums affecting constitutional matters.

[Roxy Hearts]

4 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Are you not tired of calling fellow Hearts fans and fellow Scots names?

 

It's exhausting to read. 

Not sure what you mean?

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Not sure what you mean?

Calling Brits, Unionists, is an insult. It's facts more like, as  No voters don't recognise Scotland. 

It really is a pity someone like Wallace isn't here to show them the error of their ways. Actually I'd like to see that televised, post independence. The thing is, we couldn't call it Manhunt, because you'd have to be a Man, and well... you know. So, let me see!?!? What shall we call it? Traitor track?, Uncle Tom Euthanasia?, The Purge? Anyway, Happy New Year, My fellow 'Scots'. When it comes.

 

2020! Is gonnae be the year.

 

 

Tick Tock!!!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by ri Alban

[glynnlondon]

Yikes this threads going well I see

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, glynnlondon said:

Yikes this threads going well I see

Considering the 48 seats they collected at the last UK G.E Ever.  No! 

 

 

 

Tick Tock!!!

Edited December 31, 2019 by ri Alban

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Calling Brits, Unionists, is an insult. It's facts more like, as  No voters don't recognise Scotland. 

It really is a pity someone like Wallace isn't here to show them the error of their ways. Actually I'd like to see that televised, post independence. The thing is, we couldn't call it Manhunt, because you'd have to be a Man, and well... you know. So, let me see!?!? What shall we call it? Traitor track?, Uncle Tom Euthanasia?, The Purge? Anyway, Happy New Year, My fellow 'Scots'. When it comes.

 

2020! Is gonnae be the year.

 

 

Tick Tock!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not thinking that the SNP are credible to deliver Independence without wrecking the country is not the same as "No voters don't recognise Scotland.".

 

Making those statements makes you sound paranoid and insecure.

 

2020 is the year of Brexit.  There is not going to be an Indy Ref 2 in 2020 nor the next 5 years of Tory government.  I don't know how many times you need to be told before reality sinks in.

[Pans Jambo]

7 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

So let me understand it, you are complaining about Brexit being a complete mess and want to repeat that for Independence?

 

Are there lessons to be learned here?  Maybe the UK government will make a confirmatory vote on a deal a requirement for future referendums affecting constitutional matters.

Maybe. Or maybe Scotland will win independence with a snappy slogan like “Lets get Scotxit done” or “Indy means Indy”.

I would suggest a big bus with “We send squillions to England every year that should invest into the NHS” plastered on the side of it.

 

That would work...

[frankblack]

22 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Maybe. Or maybe Scotland will win independence with a snappy slogan like “Lets get Scotxit done” or “Indy means Indy”.

I would suggest a big bus with “We send squillions to England every year that should invest into the NHS” plastered on the side of it.

 

That would work...

 

You need a referendum before you get to that stage, and yet I notice you clearly don't want any transparency on what Independence will cost up front.

 

So you are happy to repeat the same mistakes made in Brexit no matter what the costs are?  Breaking up a 300 year union of full economic and political integration is far harder than a 40 year union.

[Pans Jambo]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

You need a referendum before you get to that stage, and yet I notice you clearly don't want any transparency on what Independence will cost up front.

 

So you are happy to repeat the same mistakes made in Brexit no matter what the costs are?  Breaking up a 300 year union of full economic and political integration is far harder than a 40 year union.

Dry yer eyes Frank. 
Its happening. 

Scotland will have a fully written up, costed out plan & before you start your usual war cry about the white paper & oil pricing, tell me this, what points in the white paper other than the oil price was “fantasy” exactly?

 

Also, what “economic integration”? Sterling? Or we give our money and natural resources to Westminster to control? That “integration“?

 

”Get Scoxit done”.

[frankblack]

3 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

Dry yer eyes Frank. 
Its happening. 

 

Actually it isn't.  Boris says No. 👍

 

Quote

Scotland will have a fully written up, costed out plan & before you start your usual war cry about the white paper & oil pricing, tell me this, what points in the white paper other than the oil price was “fantasy” exactly?

 

Like the White Paper in 2014? Any plan that has no contingency built in for events like an oil price crash is an utter joke.  No point looking further than that.

 

 

Quote

Also, what “economic integration”? Sterling? Or we give our money and natural resources to Westminster to control? That “integration“?

 

”Get Scoxit done”.

 

300 years of legal, political and economic integration are a hell of a lot more complex to separate than the 40 years of EU integration.  Anyone educated would accept this as an indisputable fact.

 

Indy Ref 2 ain't happening any time soon and most likely not in the next 20 years assuming Labour remain unelectable.

Edited December 31, 2019 by frankblack

[Pans Jambo]

55 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Actually it isn't.  Boris says No. 👍

 

 

Like the White Paper in 2014? Any plan that has no contingency built in for events like an oil price crash is an utter joke.  No point looking further than that.

 

 

 

300 years of legal, political and economic integration are a hell of a lot more complex to separate than the 40 years of EU integration.  Anyone educated would accept this as an indisputable fact.

 

Indy Ref 2 ain't happening any time soon and most likely not in the next 20 years assuming Labour remain unelectable.

So Scotland needs a plan B, C & D etc. To satisfy your warped idea of “allowing” Scotland the choice?
Whats your overlords plan to fill the £Billions we are losing because of Brexit?

Anyway, you voted Yes last time Frank unyet you seem to enjoy that “Boris says no”. 

You dont think Scottish people should at least have the choice? Even if its to reject it at the ballot box?

 

Sorry Frank but Indyref 2 IS happening in 2020 because your pal Boris’s position is untenable and he is already softening his stance on the matter. 

It happening!

 

The 300 years of history to separate is just your opinion. If the will is there my opinion is a couple of years tops. Of course if the whitehall arseholes act like arseholes like they have over Brexit then who knows how long it will take. But anyone with an education will tell you it wont be in Englands interests to make it difficult for Scotland seeing as they rely on us for money, food, oil, gas, water, electricity and a place to hide their WMD’s!

Its happening!

Edited December 31, 2019 by Pans Jambo

[coconut doug]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

Actually it isn't.  Boris says No. 👍

 

 

Like the White Paper in 2014? Any plan that has no contingency built in for events like an oil price crash is an utter joke.  No point looking further than that.

 

 

 

300 years of legal, political and economic integration are a hell of a lot more complex to separate than the 40 years of EU integration.  Anyone educated would accept this as an indisputable fact.

 

Indy Ref 2 ain't happening any time soon and most likely not in the next 20 years assuming Labour remain unelectable.

 

I have a reasonable level of education and i don't accept that the UK union is a hell of a lot more complex to separate. Don't we already have a separate legal system, our own parliament and wouldn't our future economic relationship be determined by Brexit anyway? It seems to me the most difficult discussions will be around assets and liabilities which will primarily involve financial considerations which both parties will want to resolve quickly. What am i  missing?

[frankblack]

25 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

So Scotland needs a plan B, C & D etc. To satisfy your warped idea of “allowing” Scotland the choice?
Whats your overlords plan to fill the £Billions we are losing because of Brexit?

Anyway, you voted Yes last time Frank unyet you seem to enjoy that “Boris says no”. 

You dont think Scottish people should at least have the choice? Even if its to reject it at the ballot box?

 

Sorry Frank but Indyref 2 IS happening in 2020 because your pal Boris’s position is untenable and he is already softening his stance on the matter. 

It happening!

 

You have lost the plot if you think Indy Ref 2 is happening in 2020.  Legally the SNP have no way to manoevre, and I think you are straw clutching if you think Boris is softening his stance on it.

 

I think you will be waiting a long time for Indy Ref 2, and by that time I'll most likely be long retired (I'm nowhere near retirement age).

 

25 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

The 300 years of history to separate is just your opinion. If the will is there my opinion is a couple of years tops. Of course if the whitehall arseholes act like arseholes like they have over Brexit then who knows how long it will take. But anyone with an education will tell you it wont be in Englands interests to make it difficult for Scotland seeing as they rely on us for money, food, oil, gas, water, electricity and a place to hide their WMD’s!

 

 

300 years of laws and integration through the act of union affect all aspects of everyday life in the UK.   You will have to deal with Whitehall to negotiate a separation and the legal stuff will take many years.

 

The bit in bold is just hyperbole and nonsense.

 

25 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Its happening!

It really isn't and won't be in this parliament.

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, coconut doug said:

 

I have a reasonable level of education and i don't accept that the UK union is a hell of a lot more complex to separate. Don't we already have a separate legal system, our own parliament and wouldn't our future economic relationship be determined by Brexit anyway? It seems to me the most difficult discussions will be around assets and liabilities which will primarily involve financial considerations which both parties will want to resolve quickly. What am i  missing?

 

We have a legal system that is still tied to Westminster where the supreme court ultimately rules, and a devolved parliament with limited powers.  All areas of economic including Bank of England responsibilities, military, national transport infrastructure, etc would need to be untangled.  The devil is in the detail.

 

National debt and other liabilities would have to be separated which may prove a hinderance for Scotland going forward.

[Pans Jambo]

32 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

You have lost the plot if you think Indy Ref 2 is happening in 2020.  Legally the SNP have no way to manoevre, and I think you are straw clutching if you think Boris is softening his stance on it.

 

I think you will be waiting a long time for Indy Ref 2, and by that time I'll most likely be long retired (I'm nowhere near retirement age).

 

 

300 years of laws and integration through the act of union affect all aspects of everyday life in the UK.   You will have to deal with Whitehall to negotiate a separation and the legal stuff will take many years.

 

The bit in bold is just hyperbole and nonsense.

 

It really isn't and won't be in this parliament.

I’m calling you out on your BS that you voted Yes Frank. No way thats true given the shite you post on here!
 

Not Hyperbole. Fact mate. England needs us which is why they wont let us go without a fight. Wake up!

 

Even your BBC tory fan boys admit his position is softening. Its untenable. 
 

Untenable. 

[frankblack]

Just now, Pans Jambo said:

I’m calling you out on your BS that you voted Yes Frank. No way thats true given the shite you post on here!
 

 

Mate, I've challenged aussie_h and others to check my posting history as I've been on here since before 2014 yet none have come back to call me out on it.

 

Just now, Pans Jambo said:

Not Hyperbole. Fact mate. England needs us which is why they wont let us go without a fight. Wake up!

 

Nonsense.  We would be weaker without the support of the rest of the UK, especially if saddled with a large chunk of national debt to start life as an independent nation.

 

Aside from air and sea, we generally transport our goods through England to Europe.  Might be some tarrifs added there.

 

Just now, Pans Jambo said:

Even your BBC tory fan boys admit his position is softening. Its untenable. 
 

Untenable. 

 

Laughable and niave.  The answer is No, and it was in their manifesto and been reaffirmed numerous times since the GE.

[coconut doug]

27 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

We have a legal system that is still tied to Westminster where the supreme court ultimately rules, and a devolved parliament with limited powers.  All areas of economic including Bank of England responsibilities, military, national transport infrastructure, etc would need to be untangled.  The devil is in the detail.

 

National debt and other liabilities would have to be separated which may prove a hinderance for Scotland going forward.

 

I'm aware of all that but why would replacing the supreme court be difficult. Scrapping it would likely cut a layer of bureaucracy as we would no longer have to satisfy Ruk and would be responsible only to ourselves. Don't we have enough learned law lords already? 

 

         Why would transport infrastructure or the lack of it pose problems for us? Many countries in Europe have almost seamless transport links and ours are generally poor. Investment is the problem and cross border infrastructure like railways is now currently in the control of the SG, Scotland already being  separate part of Network Rail and funded largely by SG. Do we not already have a separate section for Air traffic control. Our operators (airlines) and airports are all privately owned and will have to conform to EU standards if they wish to fly to Europe. If we are in the Eu the conditions are imposed on the companies anyway. Are our Trunk roads not monitored and maintained by local Authorities? I'm not sure where the problems lie here but as you say the devil is in the detail so perhaps you could provide some.

 

  All areas of economic you say but isn't that primarily trading relationships which will be defined by EU membership. If there are some details i have missed though please keep me right. The Bank of England and the currency choice is maybe more difficult but will i think come down to an argument over assets and liabilities with Scotland ultimately being in the Euro or its own currency. There is a substantial problem over the decision of which currency to use but that decision could be influenced by how the assets and liabilities are split. It's not so much the disentanglement its the choice.

 

The military disentanglement is a great opportunity for us to leave our imperial past behind. We need to invest in a military appropriate for our country and not for one that still thinks it is a global player. Obviously we must honour UK obligations to military staff but UK has done us a favour by running down the military presence in Scotland.

 

[frankblack]

10 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

I'm aware of all that but why would replacing the supreme court be difficult. Scrapping it would likely cut a layer of bureaucracy as we would no longer have to satisfy Ruk and would be responsible only to ourselves. Don't we have enough learned law lords already? 

 

         Why would transport infrastructure or the lack of it pose problems for us? Many countries in Europe have almost seamless transport links and ours are generally poor. Investment is the problem and cross border infrastructure like railways is now currently in the control of the SG, Scotland already being  separate part of Network Rail and funded largely by SG. Do we not already have a separate section for Air traffic control. Our operators (airlines) and airports are all privately owned and will have to conform to EU standards if they wish to fly to Europe. If we are in the Eu the conditions are imposed on the companies anyway. Are our Trunk roads not monitored and maintained by local Authorities? I'm not sure where the problems lie here but as you say the devil is in the detail so perhaps you could provide some.

 

  All areas of economic you say but isn't that primarily trading relationships which will be defined by EU membership. If there are some details i have missed though please keep me right. The Bank of England and the currency choice is maybe more difficult but will i think come down to an argument over assets and liabilities with Scotland ultimately being in the Euro or its own currency. There is a substantial problem over the decision of which currency to use but that decision could be influenced by how the assets and liabilities are split. It's not so much the disentanglement its the choice.

 

The military disentanglement is a great opportunity for us to leave our imperial past behind. We need to invest in a military appropriate for our country and not for one that still thinks it is a global player. Obviously we must honour UK obligations to military staff but UK has done us a favour by running down the military presence in Scotland.

 

 

Doug - its not that any of it is impossible, but the level of detail and creation of new laws to transfer responsibilities to Holyrood would take quite some time to draft together with civil servants - far more than Brexit which isn't tied into as many areas.

 

All I'm saying is that the disentanglement process is massive and dependant on negotiated settlements with the UK.  I think that the two year estimate given by Pans above was to me a big understatement.

[Pans Jambo]

43 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Mate, I've challenged aussie_h and others to check my posting history as I've been on here since before 2014 yet none have come back to call me out on it.

 

 

Nonsense.  We would be weaker without the support of the rest of the UK, especially if saddled with a large chunk of national debt to start life as an independent nation.

 

Aside from air and sea, we generally transport our goods through England to Europe.  Might be some tarrifs added there.

 

 

Laughable and niave.  The answer is No, and it was in their manifesto and been reaffirmed numerous times since the GE.

Heading to the Thorntree for a few mate. I’ll let you have the last word. 
I really am wasting my time with you Frank, a closet Tory pretending to be a lib-dem voter pretending to vote Yes when its obvious to anyone who reads your posts your a dyed in the wool unionist.

your last paragraph screams tory unionist. Completely battered housewife syndrome!

Futile.

Enjoy your evening. 

[Pans Jambo]

2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Doug - its not that any of it is impossible, but the level of detail and creation of new laws to transfer responsibilities to Holyrood would take quite some time to draft together with civil servants - far more than Brexit which isn't tied into as many areas.

 

All I'm saying is that the disentanglement process is massive and dependant on negotiated settlements with the UK.  I think that the two year estimate given by Pans above was to me a big understatement.

Pans said 2 years IF whitehall are not being dicks about it.

[frankblack]

4 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Heading to the Thorntree for a few mate. I’ll let you have the last word. 
I really am wasting my time with you Frank, a closet Tory pretending to be a lib-dem voter pretending to vote Yes when its obvious to anyone who reads your posts your a dyed in the wool unionist.

your last paragraph screams tory unionist. Completely battered housewife syndrome!

Futile.

Enjoy your evening. 

 

[Coolio]

20 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

 

Yes I did, and the fact you tried quite poorly to present loaded questions doesn't help your case any.

 

 

 

No you didn't, you simply chose to go over the points I made re the points you made when avoiding answering my questions.

 

For you to state that my questions were in any way loaded beggars belief.

 

You refuse point blank to enter into clear argument and are obtuse to the extent that you are either a halfwit who is simply at it or simply a halfwit. 

 

Either way I will, when necessary comment on your comments when I think they are wrong/misleading but as far as discourse is concerned you have lead me to believe it to be pointless because you're so firmly in the blinkered haters gonna hate camp. 

[frankblack]

Just now, Coolio said:

 

No you didn't, you simply chose to go over the points I made re the points you made when avoiding answering my questions.

 

For you to state that my questions were in any way loaded beggars belief.

 

You refuse point blank to enter into clear argument and are obtuse to the extent that you are either a halfwit who is simply at it or simply a halfwit. 

 

Either way I will, when necessary comment on your comments when I think they are wrong/misleading but as far as discourse is concerned you have lead me to believe it to be pointless because you're so firmly in the blinkered haters gonna hate camp. 

 

Personal abuse dosesn't make your points any less irrelevant.  The fact you can't accept reasoning that differs from yours shows you have a lack of individual thinking.  If you want to be a lemming and let Nicola lead us over a cliff then that is your problem.

 

I'm a floating voter who switches sides when I feel parties betray my beliefs.  The SNP are the worst, with their endless obsession with independence and failure to respect the democratic will of the people in two successive referendums.

[manaliveits105]

and the will of 55% of the good Scottish people is ram yer indyref2 

[Coolio]

40 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Personal abuse dosesn't make your points any less irrelevant.  The fact you can't accept reasoning that differs from yours shows you have a lack of individual thinking.  If you want to be a lemming and let Nicola lead us over a cliff then that is your problem.

 

I'm a floating voter who switches sides when I feel parties betray my beliefs.  The SNP are the worst, with their endless obsession with independence and failure to respect the democratic will of the people in two successive referendums.

 

 

Nuff said.

 

[frankblack]

4 minutes ago, Coolio said:

 

 

Nuff said.

 

 

That took you an hour or so to come up with?  Poor show.

 

Here's one to describe your approach to debating:

 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

and the will of 55% of the good Scottish people is ram yer indyref2 

[coconut doug]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

Doug - its not that any of it is impossible, but the level of detail and creation of new laws to transfer responsibilities to Holyrood would take quite some time to draft together with civil servants - far more than Brexit which isn't tied into as many areas.

 

All I'm saying is that the disentanglement process is massive and dependant on negotiated settlements with the UK.  I think that the two year estimate given by Pans above was to me a big understatement.

 

Of course it isn't impossible but you said the disentanglement process is massive and dependent on negotiated settlements with the UK. I'm not sure what we would have to negotiate about. Scotland would be a new country and all powers would transfer as a result. All existing laws would and could be instantly transferred and amended as and when it suits. Isn't that what's happening with Brexit? The problem with Brexit though is that the uk has to negotiate some sort of trade deal with the UK? Scotland doesn't have to negotiate a trade deal with rUK. so surely Indy is much, much easier than Brexit.

 

 You say 2 years is an understatement, why? Where are the stumbling blocks in your opinion and why would it take so long to overcome them?

[Roxy Hearts]

1 minute ago, coconut doug said:

 

Of course it isn't impossible but you said the disentanglement process is massive and dependent on negotiated settlements with the UK. I'm not sure what we would have to negotiate about. Scotland would be a new country and all powers would transfer as a result. All existing laws would and could be instantly transferred and amended as and when it suits. Isn't that what's happening with Brexit? The problem with Brexit though is that the uk has to negotiate some sort of trade deal with the UK? Scotland doesn't have to negotiate a trade deal with rUK. so surely Indy is much, much easier than Brexit.

 

 You say 2 years is an understatement, why? Where are the stumbling blocks in your opinion and why would it take so long to overcome them?

It wouldn't take long. Every unionist puts a negative spin on everything and I mean everything. Just goes to show how churlish the British State is.