New Stand: Ongoing work (updated)

[Mdoug79]

15 minutes ago, Jambo, Goodbye said:

The question you need to ask yourself is, what will be holding up said roofs?

 

?????? Minor detail ?

[SUTOL]

5 hours ago, rudi must stay said:

 

Screens would be at each side of the new Main Stand IIRC , so yes they would

 

So you wont see a screen when sitting in the main stand? 

 

I doubt that's the plan.

[kingantti1874]

3 minutes ago, SUTOL said:

 

So you wont see a screen when sitting in the main stand? 

 

I doubt that's the plan.

He means the inside gable end. 

[SUTOL]

16 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

He means the inside gable end. 

 

Ah, well that would be better. 

 

 

[FarmerTweedy]

7 hours ago, Mdoug79 said:

Can the floodlight towers not be removed and the floodlights mounted on the stand roof structure? 

Have I missed the answer to this somewhere? 

Remove the towers and the roof structures will very quickly be at a much lower level. It's all Isaac Newton's fault for inventing gravity!

[FarmerTweedy]

13 hours ago, King Of The Cat Cafe said:

 

 

I am sure some structural engineering expert will come along and correct me if I am wrong, but I think the design of the corner tower pylons was flawed at their inception.

 

They are triangular, with one of the three legs leading inwards towards the pitch.  If they had gone the other way - with one leg away from the pitch - they could still have been constructed  to have the same roof-supporting value: but it  would have created more flexibility - including the much dreamed of "filling in the corners".

 

The 'triangles' are the way they are because two trusses sit on each tower, supported by the leg nearest the pitch and the other leg next to the relevant stand. If they were the way you're suggesting, you'd only get one truss on each tower and it would block a second truss from being added.

[FarmerTweedy]

12 hours ago, King Of The Cat Cafe said:

 

The 'two legs' could have been left in the positions they now are - with the trusses extended to suit.

You haven't really thought that through, have you?

[FarmerTweedy]

12 hours ago, Smithee said:

I can think of a few possible reasons, mostly to do with the cost of not engineering the biggest and most important parts in the simplest way. But really, no one except Cydesdale knows exactly why specific design decisions were made, so it seems a bit tight to call the design flawed.

It's worth bearing in mind that the design was done to both fit extremely tight space constraints, and also be as cheap as possible, and was done at a time when, I'm fairly sure, there weren't UEFA pitch size requirements that went beyond the minimum set out in the laws of the game.

[Agentjambo]

Can't wait to see what the new changing rooms are going to be like.

[Jingle Bells]

9 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said:

It's worth bearing in mind that the design was done to both fit extremely tight space constraints, and also be as cheap as possible, and was done at a time when, I'm fairly sure, there weren't UEFA pitch size requirements that went beyond the minimum set out in the laws of the game.

That's the point really. The original design was the cheapest possible to build , due to lack of resources, at the time.

However with better resources now available it can be improved upon, in the future, to allow for expansion.

Quite a number currently share STs due to cost and product on the park, however it's just a matter of resolving those issues before the demand for them may well outstrip supply, imho.

[johnking123]

Probably could create four new supports so could widen the pitch.Would cost a fortune! Could not fill in corners though. Doing the two supports at the Roseburn end is the most likely, if we ever were increase the Wheatfield and Roseburn stands.   

Edited November 20, 2018 by johnking123

[Hearts_fan]

Has this concept been discussed? 

[@VladMagic]

I have (perhaps stupidly) thought our way out of the stadium space constraints would be to turn the pitch 90deg so what is currently the main stand would be behind the goals (home end) and the Wheatfield stand would be behind the goals at the away end. Looking on Google maps the land behind the Wheatfield looks to have enough space (playing fields and car park). The Wheatfield would have to be shifted back into this space as the pitch is now running East to West as opposed to North and South as it is now.

 

This would enable us to have a much larger pitch (assuming it fits into the space) and it would simply mean building 2 new stands which would join up (also effectively filling the corners in) with the old Wheatfield and current Main stand.

 

 

 

[davemclaren]

6 minutes ago, VladMagic said:

I have (perhaps stupidly) thought our way out of the stadium space constraints would be to turn the pitch 90deg so what is currently the main stand would be behind the goals (home end) and the Wheatfield stand would be behind the goals at the away end. Looking on Google maps the land behind the Wheatfield looks to have enough space (playing fields and car park). The Wheatfield would have to be shifted back into this space as the pitch is now running East to West as opposed to North and South as it is now.

 

This would enable us to have a much larger pitch (assuming it fits into the space) and it would simply mean building 2 new stands which would join up (also effectively filling the corners in) with the old Wheatfield and current Main stand.

 

 

 

??

[obua]

24 minutes ago, VladMagic said:

I have (perhaps stupidly) thought our way out of the stadium space constraints would be to turn the pitch 90deg so what is currently the main stand would be behind the goals (home end) and the Wheatfield stand would be behind the goals at the away end. Looking on Google maps the land behind the Wheatfield looks to have enough space (playing fields and car park). The Wheatfield would have to be shifted back into this space as the pitch is now running East to West as opposed to North and South as it is now.

 

This would enable us to have a much larger pitch (assuming it fits into the space) and it would simply mean building 2 new stands which would join up (also effectively filling the corners in) with the old Wheatfield and current Main stand.

 

 

 

Stunning idea,so simple as well.

[novoman]

1 hour ago, Hearts_fan said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Hearts_fan said:

Has this concept been discussed? 

This surely has potential,  as long as the council allow for the extra increase in capacity and give us the safety certificate due to the ethanol tanks in the distillery.

 

It might take a few years of foundation / Europa league money . It would add on a couple of thousand to the capacity. 

Edited November 22, 2018 by novoman

[johnking123]

2 hours ago, Hearts_fan said:

Has this concept been discussed? 

Would cost a lot of money to fill in corners. Would have to make the wheatfield and roseburn bigger to make it worthwhile. In all would cost another 18 million to do.

[Hearts_fan]

41 minutes ago, johnking123 said:

Would cost a lot of money to fill in corners. Would have to make the wheatfield and roseburn bigger to make it worthwhile. In all would cost another 18 million to do.

 

Totally would cost, but what doesn't and in 5 years we've made possible what for a long time we thought was an unobtainable dream.

 

Anything like the 8 Tower idea (dream) would simply have to incorporate both an increase in pitch size and capacity, and that in principle could be achieved by rebuilding and re-positioning certain elements of the stadium. 

 

Total dream, but I like to think great(er) things are possible for Tynecastle. 

 

Even where the stands currently are, the pitch could be larger if the existing towers didn't exist where they are (they are the primary reason for the diminished width, not the first rows of seats in the stands – I think the pitch is as long as it could be, but the width could be larger but for the towers).

 

As I recall, in 2005/06, the pitch size regs changed and to incorporate a new minimum length, we had to lose 4 yards from the width. 

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by Hearts_fan

[kila]

Would never get planning permission to build the towers so close to the Gorgie road flats, one would be half in someone's garden. You'd end up with people hanging their washing out on it.

 

I don't think there is much scope for any major redevelopment at the Gorgie end unless we go without a roof there.

[johnking123]

 

 Bored at work. The only way I can see us increasing stadium is going to take time, money and a lot of persuasion. We have to find out if we buy land and knock some buildings down.

 If we wanted just a bigger Wheatfield stand. Land purchase, Ethanol tanks and possible three storage building would cost a bit before we even build anything. Let's say £3-4 million for that alone. Then new stand itself say 9,000 seater would cost £10-11 million. So £14-15 million for wheatfield and giving us just over 23,000 seater stadium. 

 Next would be new wheatfield and roseburn. Would take more land purchase and hope we can knock down part of the old school. Could be just the front of school that is listed. Another £1.5 million on land purchase and knock down. 4,500 would be £5-6 million. £ 21-23 million for over to take us to over 24,000.

 Bigger pitch? New supports at the roseburn end and taking old ones away. Extending the pitch. Two new stands and full compliant pitch.  £24-25 million all in for a 24-25,000 with bigger pitch. 

 We better start saving after we pay back Budge and hope our benefactors are flush with money still!

[obua]

47 minutes ago, johnking123 said:

 

 Bored at work. The only way I can see us increasing stadium is going to take time, money and a lot of persuasion. We have to find out if we buy land and knock some buildings down.

 If we wanted just a bigger Wheatfield stand. Land purchase, Ethanol tanks and possible three storage building would cost a bit before we even build anything. Let's say £3-4 million for that alone. Then new stand itself say 9,000 seater would cost £10-11 million. So £14-15 million for wheatfield and giving us just over 23,000 seater stadium. 

 Next would be new wheatfield and roseburn. Would take more land purchase and hope we can knock down part of the old school. Could be just the front of school that is listed. Another £1.5 million on land purchase and knock down. 4,500 would be £5-6 million. £ 21-23 million for over to take us to over 24,000.

 Bigger pitch? New supports at the roseburn end and taking old ones away. Extending the pitch. Two new stands and full compliant pitch.  £24-25 million all in for a 24-25,000 with bigger pitch. 

 We better start saving after we pay back Budge and hope our benefactors are flush with money still!

The supports you want to take away at the roseburn end are holding roof trusses up.

[portobellojambo1]

I'm finding it difficult to understand why people are so keen on the capacity of the ground being increased yet again, when it was increased following the rebuild of the new main stand and we still haven't achieved a full house sell out since then. Yes, there were 30,000 tickets sold for the game at Murrayfield, but as yet I'm not convinced they were all HMFC fans, nor am I convinced even half of that additional number would ever turn up for any never mind every home game.

 

If there were an extra 4,000 seats available over the new existing capacity the hope would be to try and reach that number, potentially meaning that for fixtures versus the OF they would each get around 8,000 tickets.

 

Why don't we just make best use of what we have at the moment and hope that we can attract crowds of between 18,000-20,000 each home game.

[Clerry Jambo]

28 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

I'm finding it difficult to understand why people are so keen on the capacity of the ground being increased yet again, when it was increased following the rebuild of the new main stand and we still haven't achieved a full house sell out since then. Yes, there were 30,000 tickets sold for the game at Murrayfield, but as yet I'm not convinced they were all HMFC fans, nor am I convinced even half of that additional number would ever turn up for any never mind every home game.

 

If there were an extra 4,000 seats available over the new existing capacity the hope would be to try and reach that number, potentially meaning that for fixtures versus the OF they would each get around 8,000 tickets.

 

Why don't we just make best use of what we have at the moment and hope that we can attract crowds of between 18,000-20,000 each home game.

Agree PJ, despite still being joint top, I sense the injuries and recent results are waning the feel good factor strangely

[PeterintheRain]

1 hour ago, johnking123 said:

 

 Bored at work. The only way I can see us increasing stadium is going to take time, money and a lot of persuasion. We have to find out if we buy land and knock some buildings down.

 If we wanted just a bigger Wheatfield stand. Land purchase, Ethanol tanks and possible three storage building would cost a bit before we even build anything. Let's say £3-4 million for that alone. Then new stand itself say 9,000 seater would cost £10-11 million. So £14-15 million for wheatfield and giving us just over 23,000 seater stadium. 

 Next would be new wheatfield and roseburn. Would take more land purchase and hope we can knock down part of the old school. Could be just the front of school that is listed. Another £1.5 million on land purchase and knock down. 4,500 would be £5-6 million. £ 21-23 million for over to take us to over 24,000.

 Bigger pitch? New supports at the roseburn end and taking old ones away. Extending the pitch. Two new stands and full compliant pitch.  £24-25 million all in for a 24-25,000 with bigger pitch. 

 We better start saving after we pay back Budge and hope our benefactors are flush with money still!

 

 Why would you need to build en entire new Wheatfield stand or buy more land when you could expand it by at least 2,000 seats within the same footprint? The ethanol tanks are a scarlet fish.  If you can have a new school and a tram stop next door then they are irrelevant as far as our capacity is concerned.  

 

[johnking123]

1 hour ago, obua said:

The supports you want to take away at the roseburn end are holding roof trusses up.

Sorry, had ment take old one's away and adding new ones in place. Two white circles on the picture.

[johnking123]

22 minutes ago, PeterintheRain said:

 

 Why would you need to build en entire new Wheatfield stand or buy more land when you could expand it by at least 2,000 seats within the same footprint? The ethanol tanks are a scarlet fish.  If you can have a new school and a tram stop next door then they are irrelevant as far as our capacity is concerned.  

 

You could not get 2000 in the same footprint. It's to steep for another tier.  Plus need bigger footprint for people getting in and out.

[FarmerTweedy]

2 hours ago, johnking123 said:

 

 Bored at work. The only way I can see us increasing stadium is going to take time, money and a lot of persuasion. We have to find out if we buy land and knock some buildings down.

 If we wanted just a bigger Wheatfield stand. Land purchase, Ethanol tanks and possible three storage building would cost a bit before we even build anything. Let's say £3-4 million for that alone. Then new stand itself say 9,000 seater would cost £10-11 million. So £14-15 million for wheatfield and giving us just over 23,000 seater stadium. 

 Next would be new wheatfield and roseburn. Would take more land purchase and hope we can knock down part of the old school. Could be just the front of school that is listed. Another £1.5 million on land purchase and knock down. 4,500 would be £5-6 million. £ 21-23 million for over to take us to over 24,000.

 Bigger pitch? New supports at the roseburn end and taking old ones away. Extending the pitch. Two new stands and full compliant pitch.  £24-25 million all in for a 24-25,000 with bigger pitch. 

 We better start saving after we pay back Budge and hope our benefactors are flush with money still!

If you're going to extend the pitch, you're going to leave a lot of main stand seats with a restricted view. Your plan would really require to extend the main stand a bit too, which would probably cost another couple of million, and add probably another few hundred seats. It would also shift the centre of the pitch away from the centre section of the main stand though! 

[FarmerTweedy]

28 minutes ago, PeterintheRain said:

 

 Why would you need to build en entire new Wheatfield stand or buy more land when you could expand it by at least 2,000 seats within the same footprint? The ethanol tanks are a scarlet fish.  If you can have a new school and a tram stop next door then they are irrelevant as far as our capacity is concerned.  

 

How could you expand the Wheatfield within the same footprint???

[FarmerTweedy]

1 hour ago, portobellojambo1 said:

I'm finding it difficult to understand why people are so keen on the capacity of the ground being increased yet again, when it was increased following the rebuild of the new main stand and we still haven't achieved a full house sell out since then. Yes, there were 30,000 tickets sold for the game at Murrayfield, but as yet I'm not convinced they were all HMFC fans, nor am I convinced even half of that additional number would ever turn up for any never mind every home game.

 

If there were an extra 4,000 seats available over the new existing capacity the hope would be to try and reach that number, potentially meaning that for fixtures versus the OF they would each get around 8,000 tickets.

 

Why don't we just make best use of what we have at the moment and hope that we can attract crowds of between 18,000-20,000 each home game.

I don't think anyone is seriously advocating increasing the capacity again just now, just speculating on what might be possible in future if we continue to be successful and demand grows. It's worth bearing in mind that Edinburgh's population is predicted to grow by over 20% in the next 20-25 years. It's not that far-fetched to think that our support could grow by a similar percentage over that period, and quite possibly by significantly more if we're relatively successful over the next few years. 

[Victorian]

We probably should fill in the corners just so that nobody can ever ask for it again.    We could fund it by stealing stuff and maybe scaling up the drug dealing department.

[Mysterion]

7 hours ago, Hearts_fan said:

Has this concept been discussed? 

 

Purchase the school area first, convince the distillery to sell land and move production to their other site and then some parts of this could be feasible. 

 

There would be no scope to modify the Gorgie Road end, but redevelopment of the Roseburn and creating a bowl shape of sorts could be possible. 

 

Lets keep dreaming.

 

 

[Victorian]

Just now, Mysterion said:

 

Purchase the school area first, convince the distillery to sell land and move production to their other site and then some parts of this could be feasible. 

 

There would be no scope to modify the Gorgie Road end, but redevelopment of the Roseburn and creating a bowl shape of sorts could be possible. 

 

Lets keep dreaming.

 

 

 

A bowl!!!      Genius.      The instant eradication of all unfilled corners.

[johnking123]

We are growing as a club. Slowly but surely. Purchasing land if possible for future development would be a smart way to safeguard our future at tynecastle. FOH and benefactors would have to play a big roll in any future development. 

[Dagger Is Back]

1 hour ago, portobellojambo1 said:

I'm finding it difficult to understand why people are so keen on the capacity of the ground being increased yet again, when it was increased following the rebuild of the new main stand and we still haven't achieved a full house sell out since then. Yes, there were 30,000 tickets sold for the game at Murrayfield, but as yet I'm not convinced they were all HMFC fans, nor am I convinced even half of that additional number would ever turn up for any never mind every home game.

 

If there were an extra 4,000 seats available over the new existing capacity the hope would be to try and reach that number, potentially meaning that for fixtures versus the OF they would each get around 8,000 tickets.

 

Why don't we just make best use of what we have at the moment and hope that we can attract crowds of between 18,000-20,000 each home game.

 

Couldn’t agree more. Once we consistently sell out all home games, are able to restrict away fans to a minimum number of tickets, we have a tried and tested method of reselling unused ST seats and have waiting lists, then we’ve got a different story 

[soonbe110]

Let’s just wait until we are regularly playing Champions League football then do a deal with Scottish Rugby to play CL games at Murrayfield. Even after reducing all visiting fans capacity to two sections of Roseburn  I doubt  we will ever need more than 20-22k capacity for league games and increasing prices rather another £18m investment is a far more sensible approach. 

[@VladMagic]

6 hours ago, obua said:

Stunning idea,so simple as well.

 

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Explain flaws in my idea with my blessing but dont just sit there pissing in without aiming first!

[obua]

1 hour ago, johnking123 said:

Sorry, had ment take old one's away and adding new ones in place. Two white circles on the picture.

The new ones would have to be in the same place to hold the roof up so what’s the point.

[obua]

2 minutes ago, VladMagic said:

 

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Explain flaws in my idea with my blessing but dont just sit there pissing in without aiming first!

Ok,to shift the wheatfield back would require a rebuild,so that’s three stands to build.

[portobellojambo1]

54 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said:

I don't think anyone is seriously advocating increasing the capacity again just now, just speculating on what might be possible in future if we continue to be successful and demand grows. It's worth bearing in mind that Edinburgh's population is predicted to grow by over 20% in the next 20-25 years. It's not that far-fetched to think that our support could grow by a similar percentage over that period, and quite possibly by significantly more if we're relatively successful over the next few years. 

 

I only read back maybe two/three pages, and everything I was reading was suggesting increasing capacity, which was what prompted me to post as I did.

[cb1874]

Foe me, the expansion should absolutely be as much about increasing the pitch size , as well as a bigger capacity.

We can increase capacity easily, as has been demonstrated by moving the corner columns and filling in, but we’re still going to be left with the pitch size issue. European football would pay for future dreams, but we need the pitch to do that. 

[@VladMagic]

17 minutes ago, obua said:

Ok,to shift the wheatfield back would require a rebuild,so that’s three stands to build.

 

Fair enough but in terms of the other points I raised and the general idea of shifting the pitch 90 deg and rebuilding round that? The structure of the Weatfield could be retained but moved saving construction costs.

 

Thoughts or is Mr Sarcasm going to appear again?

Edited November 22, 2018 by VladMagic

[geomac]

1 minute ago, VladMagic said:

 

Fair enough but in terms of the other points I raised and the general idea of shifting the pitch 90 deg and rebuilding round that?

 

Or are you going to be a sarcastic knob again?

 

As a gambling man I'll go for being a sarcastic knob again, any takers?

[@VladMagic]

Just now, geomac said:

 

As a gambling man I'll go for being a sarcastic knob again, any takers?

 

I did try an edit

[WageThief]

13 minutes ago, obua said:

Ok,to shift the wheatfield back would require a rebuild,so that’s three stands to build.

 

We could take bits of Murrayfield in the night and replace the seats with maroon ones.  That could save us building any new stands.

[Hearts_fan]

2 hours ago, portobellojambo1 said:

I'm finding it difficult to understand why people are so keen on the capacity of the ground being increased yet again, when it was increased following the rebuild of the new main stand and we still haven't achieved a full house sell out since then. Yes, there were 30,000 tickets sold for the game at Murrayfield, but as yet I'm not convinced they were all HMFC fans, nor am I convinced even half of that additional number would ever turn up for any never mind every home game.

 

If there were an extra 4,000 seats available over the new existing capacity the hope would be to try and reach that number, potentially meaning that for fixtures versus the OF they would each get around 8,000 tickets.

 

Why don't we just make best use of what we have at the moment and hope that we can attract crowds of between 18,000-20,000 each home game.

 

Because that is what we have. What hope is there in dreaming of things being forever restricted by current-day limitations? 

[Jambo-Fox]

9 hours ago, Hearts_fan said:

Has this concept been discussed? 

Genius! It’s been discussed but nobody could properly articulate the proposal. However you have managed that without using words - well done!

 

I’m sure this is the way forward! Advantages;

Expansion can be split into phases, 3 being the most logical.

 This allows Stadium (Park!) evolution and capacity growth in line with increases in fans & revenue! By doing this it also ensures that capital expenditure is spread in a way that is manageable!

 

This will happen over the next two decades (or less), it really will, really it will!!

 

[davemclaren]

The reality is that ww have built a new stand and our capacity is now greater than it has been for 24 years.  We won’t be increasing it by much anytime soon.  

[Bull's-eye]

Just put the prices up. 

 

Job done.

[johnking123]

6 hours ago, Oliver Twist said:

Just put the prices up. 

 

Job done.

Prices will go up for me. My season ticket goes up £50 or more in platinum main stand. Should be a good few more in the same boat next season.

[johnking123]

8 hours ago, obua said:

The new ones would have to be in the same place to hold the roof up so what’s the point.

No, you could build bigger and stronger supports adjacent to the current two. Just be a lot more expensive to do.