New Stand: Ongoing work (updated)

[old school tie]

I have not been this season yet. Have they removed the big sheet of perspex from above the entrance/exit? The view was terrible and ended up being worse than the one we had in the old girl.

[Bad Religion]

2 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Ann Budge update 9 May 2016

You all know about our plans to develop our main stand. A number of you came along to the public meetings which were held at Tynecastle last week, where you heard more detail of what we are planning, of how we are approaching the development and of the likely timescales. 

In short, we are hoping to create the space needed for the larger stand by knocking down, not the current main stand, but the buildings behind the stand – the admin building, the shop building and the nursery. Before we can do this we will, of course, have to provide new temporary facilities which will be used during construction. The nursery will move to new facilities in Gerard’s Yard and everyone else will move into new facilities in the Wheatfield undercroft. Plans for these temporary facilities are currently being finalised. They should be ready for occupation in October, to allow the demolition of the old buildings in November of this year.

 

Ann Budge update 26 Sep 2016

We remain cautiously optimistic that our plans for the new stand will soon be approved; we have a key meeting on the 12th October with planners and I hope to be making some significant announcements shortly thereafter. Meanwhile, we are making great progress with the Wheatfield undercroft development and are on schedule for “the big move” early in November.

 

AGM slides - Dec 2016

Phase 1b - New Pitch - Summer 2017

 

Ann Budge update - 20 Feb 2017

As many of you will have seen for yourselves, our pitch has deteriorated badly over the last few weeks.  While we knew that we would have to address the replacement of our now 19 year old pitch sometime soon, we were hoping that it would see us through to the end of this season.  However, having carefully monitored the issues and having consulted a number of experts in this field, we have taken the decision to address the problem now.   We have, therefore, commissioned SIS (UK) Ltd, the industry leader in the field, to re-turf our pitch.

 

I can't be bothered digging out any more references. You can either accept what I have said previously and references I have given, or you can reject them. Its your choice. It doesn't really make a difference.

 

My biggest concern, as I have repeated several times since the project started, is the funding of any shortfall and its potential impact on investment in the team in the short to medium term.

 

I don't have to accept anything you say. It is not based on fact nor does it back up what you said earlier. 

[EIEIO]

As last season's accounts will be issued this week I would hope the board will clarify how the remainder of the stadium redevelopment will be funded at that time. 

Anyone who is unhappy or requires further detail can ask a question(s) at the AGM in December.

[Footballfirst]

4 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

 

I don't have to accept anything you say. It is not based on fact nor does it back up what you said earlier. 

[graygo]

11 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

 

He's right in that it doesn't mention a hybrid pitch though, purely a re-turf and that's what we got at the time was it not?

[Thomaso]

20 hours ago, kila said:

 

Yeah but there is probably half a metre of space above the false ceiling where the air ducting etc are - it'd be like the fans' bar.

 

For a concourse that is to hold thousands of people, a false ceiling just makes it feel more cramped.

 

 

 

Matter of opinion - many have said they don't like the open industrial look in the bar.

[Thomaso]

19 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

I don't remember too much criticism if the facade though my description of it as like a 70s office block did seem to upset some

 

 I stand by that description - a very nice 70s office block and looks great but not the architectural gem that would divert the tourist sightseeing buses that some OTT comments suggested.

 

The concourse and other back stage areas look OK to me but could do with some decoration - even the Wheatfield 20 odd years ago included plaques with the stories of club legends. But that will be cheap and is not a priority. The front facing the real action is superb but using  some of the Plaza  space on McLeod Street to provide additional seating with a lower rake would have been more forward looking and ambitious if planning permission permitted.

 

 

You have a short memory then FA!

[Footballfirst]

15 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

He's right in that it doesn't mention a hybrid pitch though, purely a re-turf and that's what we got at the time was it not?

I know it doesn't say "hybrid". Nor does it say that a "re-turf" was all that was envisaged either. What is does say is that a "new pitch" (whatever that is) was part of phase 1b of the plans, and as such was part of the forecast cost of the development.  The club also commonly refers to the plans as being the "Tynecastle Development Project", not the main stand development project.

 

The plans submitted to the council certainly included the Wheatfield undercroft development. IIRC that was approved several months before the main stand build was approved, far less commenced.  Part of the costs also included the purchase of buildings which were then demolished to make way for the new stand.  The new stand build cost will have been the largest element of the project, but it was by no means the only thing that made up the original £11m-£12m forecast cost.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Footballfirst

[Thomaso]

19 hours ago, fabienleclerq said:

Plenty positives but plenty of what seem amateur mistakes also.

 

We seemed to be surprised by how much space we had, how's that even possible? The toilet situation to begin with was a shambles, it's been rectified though. The design of the directors box and press box were strange choices, especially the entrance/exit and also the view from the top weren't what we expected. £18m is a huge investment and is getting to the point it might've made sense getting a new stadium!

 

A - the vast majority of Hearts fans wanted to stay at Tynecastle instead of moving to a depressing out of town location.

 

B - we did not have £30m/£35m to build a brand new stadium 

[graygo]

2 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I know it doesn't say "hybrid". Nor does it say that a "re-turf" was all that was envisaged either. What is does say is that a "new pitch" (whatever that is) was part of phase 1b of the plans, and as such was part of the forecast cost of the development.  The club also commonly refers to the plans as being the "Tynecastle Development Project", not the main stand development project.

 

The plans submitted to the council certainly included the Wheatfield undercroft development. IIRC that was approved several months before the main stand build was approved, far less commenced.  Part of the costs also included the purchase of buildings which were then demolished to make way for the new stand.  The new stand build cost will have been the largest element of the project, but it was by no means the only thing that made up the original £11m-£12m forecast cost.

 

From your earlier post - 

 

Ann Budge update - 20 Feb 2017

As many of you will have seen for yourselves, our pitch has deteriorated badly over the last few weeks.  While we knew that we would have to address the replacement of our now 19 year old pitch sometime soon, we were hoping that it would see us through to the end of this season.  However, having carefully monitored the issues and having consulted a number of experts in this field, we have taken the decision to address the problem now.   We have, therefore, commissioned SIS (UK) Ltd, the industry leader in the field, to re-turf our pitch.

[Justin Z]

^ That's from when we returfed at Cathro's behest. To be fair the surface was terrible. They were hoping to get through to the end of the season on the old one before redoing the entire thing, to save costs generally. This was all hashed out at the time.

[Thomaso]

18 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

I think Thomaso has made it clear that it is mainly about underestimating the cost of what we set out do because we trusted the original architect's guesstimate of the cost. 

 

There was some serious under costing of the seating areas and the M&E requirements in particular - however items like a new larger electrical plant room, additional toilets, fans bar, new state of the art pitch/drainage system, etc, have all added to the original cost.

[Thomaso]

15 hours ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

Of course they would.

 

Someone said £60m for a new stadium, that could've been at sighthill or Carrick knowe or maybe even at the Side of Murrayfield!! Where there's a will there's a way.

 

I didn't really want to get into a let's move debate, but £18m has been spent already add whatever Tynie is worth and then you aren't far off the cost of a new stadium. It just seems a lot considering what Hibs spent on theirs.

 

The £18m included buying the plaza area from the Council.

 

Hibs got what they paid for - a bog standard main stand with pish poor facilities.

[graygo]

9 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

^ That's from when we returfed at Cathro's behest. To be fair the surface was terrible. They were hoping to get through to the end of the season on the old one before redoing the entire thing, to save costs generally. This was all hashed out at the time.

 

Yes but was that not just brought forward at his request as you say, a re-turf was always the original plan so the hybrid wasn't part of the original estimate.

[Thomaso]

5 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

I have not seen any explanation of what this higher finish means. Nor an explanation of what has been added. Balanced by what has been deleted. Presumably the space occupied by the fans bar was going to be occupied by something. And the inclusion of the premium hospitality space for the Matchday Exprrience has been removed from scope by leaving that in the Gorgie Suite. The offices that were planned to be in the new stand are now remaining in the Wheatfield undercroft so again are out of the new stand scope. Ann's statement is the familiar "its because we want to make it the best we can for the fans" which was the explanation for the second delay in opening the stand ("I looked at the plans again and decided the toilets and kiosks weren't adequate"). As for "the major infrastructure investment is behind us" we still have a finding gap of over 6m as far as we can tell with no idea of how it is to be met. It is equivalent to over a further full four years of FoH donations.

The AGM will hopefully reveal some facts and proper scope amd cost variation analysis to supplement Ann's PR spin.

 

You seem like an intelligent guy FA who has a keen interest in the financial aspect of Hearts and FoH in particular.

 

So instead of mumping behind the scenes, why not stand for the FoH and make a positive contribution from within.

[fabienleclerq]

34 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

A - the vast majority of Hearts fans wanted to stay at Tynecastle instead of moving to a depressing out of town location.

 

B - we did not have £30m/£35m to build a brand new stadium 

 

B is kind of what I'm getting at, we aren't far away from the figures you are talking about if you were to factor in selling Tynecastle. 

[davemclaren]

16 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

You seem like an intelligent guy FA who has a keen interest in the financial aspect of Hearts and FoH in particular.

 

So instead of mumping behind the scenes, why not stand for the FoH and make a positive contribution from within.

I think the fan’s bar was originally destined to be ‘community space’ with no specific plans. The original fans bar was thought to be going under the Wheatfield iirc.  Given the pressing timescale to get the basics done, so the stand coukd open, a lot of the final details were left hanging and evolved along the way. Just like a lot of major time constrained projects in my experience. 

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

B is kind of what I'm getting at, we aren't far away from the figures you are talking about if you were to factor in selling Tynecastle. 

Minimum £50m for a new stadium i reckon. 

[Justin Z]

25 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Yes but was that not just brought forward at his request as you say, a re-turf was always the original plan so the hybrid wasn't part of the original estimate.

 

My recollection is not that a re-turf was the original plan, but rather, a complete overhaul/replacement of the pitch, with everything ripped out and redone.

 

But you may be right and my memory may have mixed the two scenarios together.

[Beast Boy]

Open industrial look is far nicer than suspended hospital style false ceilings imo.

 

As you were...

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Undoubtedly a project of the nature of this one will have mistakes. I think we are doing a great job with more to come. 

[siegementality]

How anyone can complain about the transformation taking place at Tynecastle is beyond me. Some people have really short memories, and I mean really short.

[iwasthere1954]

3 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Carrick Knowe back as a longer term option with the golf club now closed. 

It is the golf club that's closed not the golf course.

[TyphoonJambo]

3 minutes ago, iwasthere1954 said:

It is the golf club that's closed not the golf course.

Also, I challenge anyone to get “ Carrick Knowe” into a song. Hello, hello we ar the Carrick Knowe boys! Just doesn’t cut it.

[Mikey1874]

4 minutes ago, iwasthere1954 said:

It is the golf club that's closed not the golf course.

 

Yeah. Better for golf. We'll stay at Tynecastle. 

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, TypoonJambo said:

Also, I challenge anyone to get “ Carrick Knowe” into a song. Hello, hello we ar the Carrick Knowe boys! Just doesn’t cut it.

 

What do we want? Carrick.

When do we want it? Knowe!

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

B is kind of what I'm getting at, we aren't far away from the figures you are talking about if you were to factor in selling Tynecastle. 

 

Going by recent information on Aberdeen's new stadium, £30m/£35m was way understated.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

1 hour ago, siegementality said:

How anyone can complain about the transformation taking place at Tynecastle is beyond me. Some people have really short memories, and I mean really short.

Put it down to boredom and a lack of thinking it through.

 

This stand is the best thing that has ever happened at Hearts in my lifetime, beyond cup wins.

 

A legacy she says, and a legacy it will be, something to cherish and be proud of for many years

[...a bit disco]

1 hour ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

What do we want? Carrick.

When do we want it? Knowe!

 

 

Take it there isn't much call for your janitorial skills at work today then?

[Beast Boy]

10 minutes ago, ...a bit disco said:

 

 

Take it there isn't much call for your janitorial skills at work today then?

 

No, they brought in a guy from Marrakesh to do that the other day. Big chap. Handsome. You’d like him. ?

Edited November 13, 2018 by Glib and Shameless Crier

[Craig_]

2 hours ago, davemclaren said:

Minimum £50m for a new stadium i reckon. 

 

Indeed. Consider £18m for a new main stand, £15m (?) for a new side stand and probably £8m each for two end stands, maybe make a slight profit on the land, but you'd still be very lucky to see change from £50m.

[...a bit disco]

3 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

No, they brought in a guy from Marrakesh to do that the other day. Big chap. Handsome. You’d like him. ?

 

Excellent.

 

Your usefulness will increase no end now you've got a permanent boss in place.

 

 

[Beast Boy]

Just now, ...a bit disco said:

 

Excellent.

 

Your usefulness will increase no end now you've got a permanent boss in place.

 

 

 

You would think, but he keeps calling in sick. Apparently some old boy keeps following him around, and it’s made him scared to leave the house.

 

[...a bit disco]

1 minute ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

You would think, but he keeps calling in sick. Apparently some old boy keeps following him around, and it’s made him scared to leave the house.

 

 

[Beast Boy]

Just now, ...a bit disco said:

 

 

Coonster?

[...a bit disco]

2 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

Coonster?

 

Who knows?

 

That fecker has his Twitter locked these days. Must be something in those dug pumping allegations after all.

[Francis Albert]

3 hours ago, Thomaso said:

 

You have a short memory then FA!

And you are a very modest guy if you forget that criticism was mild and vastly outweghed by gushing praise for the iconic stunning etc facade

[pablo]

4 hours ago, Thomaso said:

 

Matter of opinion - many have said they don't like the open industrial look in the bar.

 

Although nobody under the age of 40 I'd guess

[BelgeJambo]

3 hours ago, iwasthere1954 said:

It is the golf club that's closed not the golf course.

You sure about that?

i was sat in it before the semi final the other week having a few scoops

[By the light]

29 minutes ago, BelgeJambo said:

You sure about that?

i was sat in it before the semi final the other week having a few scoops

 

Its closing as of the 18th November

[BelgeJambo]

2 minutes ago, By the light said:

 

Its closing as of the 18th November

That’s a pity 

[By the light]

1 minute ago, BelgeJambo said:

That’s a pity 

 

Just googled it and it actually closed last Sunday. Shame but sign of the times.  

[BelgeJambo]

6 minutes ago, By the light said:

 

Just googled it and it actually closed last Sunday. Shame but sign of the times.  

It did seem a bit run down 

[luckydug]

The comparisons between the cost of the new stand and building a new stadium is pointless.

The vast majority of Hearts fans wanted to stay at Tynecastle and the club have ensured that will be the case for years to come.

There is one big difference with our situation and that of  Aberdeen. The Dons fans don't have the same emotional ties to Pittodrie as we have for Tynecastle. 

Hanging on to our fanbase would have been difficult as a large majority of our fans would have felt betrayed.

I'm not sure why the poster in question brought this up other than finding something to else to complain about.

I trust the vocal minority will show up at the AGM to voice their concerns.?

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by luckydug

[Francis Albert]

8 hours ago, Thomaso said:

 

You seem like an intelligent guy FA who has a keen interest in the financial aspect of Hearts and FoH in particular.

 

So instead of mumping behind the scenes, why not stand for the FoH and make a positive contribution from within.

Yeah I am going to win a popular vote! In any event given current Governance proposals (yes yawn yawn) FoH will not have much say in the sort of detail we are discussing  - its role will contiinue as it is now - provide funds to be used at the discretion of the club board on which FoH as the majority owner will have a minority representation.

And as for the astonishment that there should be any questioning or dissent - does anyone really think that Ann's explanation of the 50% overspend is adequate? If they do their minds are truly closed and they will swallow anything.

[FarmerTweedy]

On 12/11/2018 at 22:06, fabienleclerq said:

 

Of course they would.

 

Someone said £60m for a new stadium, that could've been at sighthill or Carrick knowe or maybe even at the Side of Murrayfield!! Where there's a will there's a way.

 

I didn't really want to get into a let's move debate, but £18m has been spent already add whatever Tynie is worth and then you aren't far off the cost of a new stadium. It just seems a lot considering what Hibs spent on theirs.

[Notts1874]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Yeah I am going to win a popular vote! In any event given current Governance proposals (yes yawn yawn) FoH will not have much say in the sort of detail we are discussing  - its role will contiinue as it is now - provide funds to be used at the discretion of the club board on which FoH as the majority owner will have a minority representation.

And as for the astonishment that there should be any questioning or dissent - does anyone really think that Ann's explanation of the 50% overspend is adequate? If they do their minds are truly closed and they will swallow anything.

Utter nonsense as usual.

 

You were given a a unique and personal opportunity to have a face to face meeting with someone from the FOH where you could have had a real discussion but didn't take them up on that.

 

You continue to bump your gums on here and send strongly worded emails though.

 

Pathetic.

[fabienleclerq]

7 hours ago, FarmerTweedy said:

 

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by fabienleclerq

[Dave McCreery's knee]

There was around £750k to £1M spent on buying land from the Council and the company that owned the old ticket office. That wouldnt have been included in the originally reported construction estimate. 

[Beast Boy]

What I see is a magnificent stadium which is being completed to a timescale which allows us to put out a team that has spent the vast majority of its time at the summit of the league, and without racking up unmanageable debt at the same time. Budge and Levein deserve a lot of praise for that.