New Stand: Ongoing work (updated)

[CJGJ]

No excuse for not ordering the seats

 

Hearts chief executive Ann Budge has admitted that the delay on the building of the club?s new Main Stand is ?entirely down to an error on the part of the club? after they forgot to order the seats.

Read more at: http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-main-stand-delayed-after-club-forgot-to-order-seats-1-4522806

[Thomaso]

This doesn't come down to "Yeah but was she right to build the stand? Was she? Was she?", To me she probably was right but I don't care to get into it, I've never said otherwise and I'm not the one you're arguing with. There are other things that can and should IMO be questioned though.

 

 

 

So it looks like we are agreed the decision to go ahead with the stand was the correct one.

 

Ann Budge had now confirmed the real reason for the stand not opening on the deadline date - as a contractor on site I applaud her honesty.

 

I am sure some will wish to bash on with the witch hunt....

[Thomaso]

This doesn't come down to "Yeah but was she right to build the stand? Was she? Was she?", To me she probably was right but I don't care to get into it, I've never said otherwise and I'm not the one you're arguing with. There are other things that can and should IMO be questioned though.

 

 

 

So it looks like we are agreed the decision to go ahead with the stand was the correct one.

 

Ann Budge had now confirmed the real reason for the stand not opening on the deadline date - as a contractor on site I applaud her honesty.

 

I am sure some will wish to bash on with the witch hunt....

[thejts]

Just spent most of the afternoon in the new stand. It really is going to be something else. Stood literally where my seat will be. Oh ya forest tucker.

Good lets see some pictures.

 

 

Ta muchly.

[Unknown user]

So it looks like we are agreed the decision to go ahead with the stand was the correct one.

 

Ann Budge had now confirmed the real reason for the stand not opening on the deadline date - as a contractor on site I applaud her honesty.

 

I am sure some will wish to bash on with the witch hunt....

Mate, you're arguing with the wrong guy, I'm not interested in your one man crusade to get people to admit she was right to build the stand.

 

I said someone got something wrong and I said it clearly hasn't been well planned from the club's side, and that good people make mistakes. Mrs Budge appears to agree.

Edited August 4, 2017 by ManMoth

[FarmerTweedy]

We are only going to come out of it debt free because FOH will pay for it! The club itself had no plan for funding at all, which was wholly irresponsible.

Another lie! The club had a plan for ?9m of funding (including ?3m from FoH). They said at the outset that this would allow them to deliver the basics to get the stand up and running for spectators, and that if they couldn't fill the funding gap in time, other aspects of the build, such as some of the hospitality suites, could be completed as funds became available.

 

The truth is obviously inconvenient for your agenda though!

[FarmerTweedy]

It's true though, I guarantee that pieman had good intentions, but he still made a right old **** of the whole thing. Good intentions aren't enough and it worries me that a guy with IMO a reasonable view on it is being shouted down. I don't know what Ann should have done, or what I would have done, but I'm really worried about this and I understand the feeling of being taken for granted too - I'm not there myself but I get it.

 

FWIW I know there are loads of good people working their tits off, and appreciation and thanks should go to them - but that doesn't mean the most important and expensive infrastructure project in decades should be above critical examination.

You're absolutely right with the bit in bold but bowman's boot is telling outright lies in an attempt to paint a picture of a far worse situation in terms of funding than was actually the case in order to discredit Ann Budge. He isn't a guy with a reasonable view, he's a liar trying to stir up shit. The situation regarding funding, and planning for it, simply never was what he claims it to have been. He even contradicts his own bullshit, claiming in one post that there was no funding plan at all, and in others that there was a plan but it was a poor one!

[Mars plastic]

Good lets see some pictures.

 

 

Ta muchly.

I'm not a pics guy. I'll leave that to the budding Herb Ritts's on here

[kila]

I think it's fair to say for Hearts to remain in Gorgie for the long haul, incorporating the nursery into the new stand was paramount. As the council were well ahead with plans to rebuild the very aged old nursery, if Hearts had hesitated they'd have lost the opportunity to acquire the land that had limited even the old stand's size (hence why there was a dink down by the Roseburn end).

 

 

The plan/design can be argued over, but the need to press the button promptly can't - no time could be wasted or the opportunity would be missed to acquire land to build a stand as big as permitted.

Edited August 4, 2017 by kila

[FarmerTweedy]

YES OR NO. Come on you can do it

Bear in mind that even if he did answer, we'd have no idea whether he was telling the truth or another lie!

[Gorgiewave]

Looks boring.

[FarmerTweedy]

To be honest, if FOH helps with additional funding for completing this magnificent stand then so be it.

That must be the fundamental purpose of FOH up until and thereafter fan ownership takes place

If it means a delay in fan ownership then so be it

New stand, debt free and a competitive team on the park is the immediate future and with the current leadership we will achieve this imo

 

And if it pisses bowman's boot off, so much the better!

[gorgie rd eh11]

Looks boring.

 

What does?

[FarmerTweedy]

Mate, you're arguing with the wrong guy, I'm not interested in your one man crusade to get people to admit she was right to build the stand.

I said someone got something wrong and I said it clearly hasn't been well planned from the club's side, and that good people make mistakes. Mrs Budge appears to agree.

There's absolutely no evidence of it not having been well planned, in fact there's clear evidence to the contrary. A major balls-up has been made regarding the seat order though, that's undeniable!

[Gorgiewave]

What does?

 

The grey at the back per Jambo Cartman's photos.

[Jamboelite]

We were already short to start with. I really dont get why noone seems to care about it. Perhaps I come across as overly critical but that is purely through concern for our club. I dont think the club planned the finances and just relied upon FOH.

You keep saying this with nothing to support it BB until the club discuss the finance and where we are with it and how its funded to finish its just pissing in the wind.

 

I see someone put it better than i could a few posts later.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Jamboelite

[tian447]

Right then.............Who never put the order in????!!!!!

 

I think it was Levein.

I bet you that wee weirdo Greenginger will claim that he intercepted it, or something along the lines of his incredibly banal self.

[Hearts_fan]

I can't believe the acrimony that is being directed towards our own Club during this hugely challenging construction process.

 

If we didn't know any better, one might think the criticism was being directed at some external threat to HMFC, and not the very people who are seeking to help and build-up the Club.

 

The work that has been done on this project, from everyone from the Cleaners to the Board, has been absolutely, monumentally praise-worthy. There will be a HUGE 'round of applause' for all those involved when we all begin to share in their efforts. Yes, some of us pledge money each month, but the people involved on a day-to-day basis, actually sweating and bleeding to make progress, are the ones who deserve the credit, support and thanks for getting the work done. Some of them pledge their money too.

 

Some people will be quick to take their seats in 'their' new ivory tower, that's after criticising and degrading those who are planning and physically building the thing.

 

It is a bizarre perversion that some of our own think it reasonable to stab our own people in the back with their digs and complaints. 

 

It's all rights, and no respect.

 

I heard a discussion on a podcast earlier ? the subject was something else entirely ? but an observation struck me... 

 

"It is a natural effect of frustration to turn in upon oneself, I think, the [group] turn[ed] in upon itself, at the moment of crisis, which was brought about by [an event]. People were suddenly taken aback and [thought] ?what?s going on here?!?. I think people went searching for an enemy and have picked out enemies within, looking to say ?that?s your fault, that?s your fault there??"

 

I think this is happening here and in some way, it's reassuring to understand that this culture of moaning and complaining is not unique to some Hearts fans, but rather it is likely a universal human frailty borne-out of insecurity (and probably personal misery in general).

 

Thanks once again for all the constructive posts on this thread ? it really is an exciting time. As Hearts fans, we have an unbelievable amount of developments and people to be thankful for. 

[dc-jambo]

I can't believe the acrimony that is being directed towards our own Club during this hugely challenging construction process.

 

If we didn't know any better, one might think the criticism was being directed at some external threat to HMFC, and not the very people who are seeking to help and build-up the Club.

 

The work that has been done on this project, from everyone from the Cleaners to the Board, has been absolutely, monumentally praise-worthy. There will be a HUGE 'round of applause' for all those involved when we all begin to share in their efforts. Yes, some of us pledge money each month, but the people involved on a day-to-day basis, actually sweating and bleeding to make progress, are the ones who deserve the credit, support and thanks for getting the work done. Some of them pledge their money too.

 

Some people will be quick to take their seats in 'their' new ivory tower, that's after criticising and degrading those who are planning and physically building the thing.

 

It is a bizarre perversion that some of our own think it reasonable to stab our own people in the back with their digs and complaints. 

 

It's all rights, and no respect.

 

I heard a discussion on a podcast earlier ? the subject was something else entirely ? but an observation struck me... 

 

"It is a natural effect of frustration to turn in upon oneself, I think, the [group] turn[ed] in upon itself, at the moment of crisis, which was brought about by [an event]. People were suddenly taken aback and [thought] ?what?s going on here?!?. I think people went searching for an enemy and have picked out enemies within, looking to say ?that?s your fault, that?s your fault there??"

 

I think this is happening here and in some way, it's reassuring to understand that this culture of moaning and complaining is not unique to some Hearts fans, but rather it is likely a universal human frailty borne-out of insecurity (and probably personal misery in general).

 

Thanks once again for all the constructive posts on this thread ? it really is an exciting time. As Hearts fans, we have an unbelievable amount of developments and people to be thankful for.

 

Good post - mad pantwetting on here

[Thomaso]

Mate, you're arguing with the wrong guy, I'm not interested in your one man crusade to get people to admit she was right to build the stand.

 

I said someone got something wrong and I said it clearly hasn't been well planned from the club's side, and that good people make mistakes. Mrs Budge appears to agree.

 

 

Agreed.......,,mate

[GJamboR7]

Not all of the funding was (or is) in place. That, for me, is poor planning. They presumed that FOH would cover any shortfall, which isnt entirely fair or honest. I dont appreciate being taken for granted and, as a FOH contributor from the start, I have been here.

You've just presumed that FOH are covering the difference, go and prove any evidence? Find it proper weird for a hearts fan to be so desperate to be negative about the best thing to happen to this club in 25 years.

Edited August 4, 2017 by GJamboR7

[GJamboR7]

Beyond done with some 'Hearts fans'. Desperate to create a negative vibe around the club. Absolute roasters

[Hearts_fan]

Beyond done with some 'Hearts fans'. Desperate to create a negative vibe around the club. Absolute roasters

 

They certainly come across as absolute roasters.

 

Their chat would bore zombies to death.

[Pans Jambo]

Beyond done with some 'Hearts fans'. Desperate to create a negative vibe around the club. Absolute roasters

Amen brother.

New stand soon

New manager soon

More signings to come this month

But hey, forgot the seats and Craig Levein n that.

[GJamboR7]

Also a ****ing disgrace that Hearts are making the biggest investment in Scottish Football infrastructure for ****ings with our stand and youth development and we're getting absolute pelters from the media.

 

Something progressive is happening in Scottish football and the entire nation is desperate to call it embarrassing. I ****ing hate Scottish football at times. Honestly.

[Jamboelite]

Also a ******* disgrace that Hearts are making the biggest investment in Scottish Football infrastructure for *******s with our stand and youth development and we're getting absolute pelters from the media.

 

Something progressive is happening in Scottish football and the entire nation is desperate to call it embarrassing. I ******* hate Scottish football at times. Honestly.

I ****ing hate certain so called Hears fans who are more negative than the media.

[Sir Talbot Buxomly]

Also a ******* disgrace that Hearts are making the biggest investment in Scottish Football infrastructure for *******s with our stand and youth development and we're getting absolute pelters from the media.

 

Something progressive is happening in Scottish football and the entire nation is desperate to call it embarrassing. I ******* hate Scottish football at times. Honestly.

 

So, we DIDN'T forget to order seats and some ***** just made that up, yes?

[Jeff]

Simply delays the fact we are going to have a shit hot stadium that most teams are envious of, by a few months.

 

Let them laugh... We will have our time again

[jamtartan74]

Flats flats glorious flats.. oh wait nah we are getting a new main stand instead, delayed by 2 month, pain in the arse? Aye it is but worth the wait imo, could be worse, we could be playing at murrayfield permanently, relax.

[HMFC86]

We should have got rid of some "fans" at the same time as Cathro.

 

How anyone can have an issue with how the club is run and the building of a new stand at Tynecastle, that ground that wasn't fit for purpose is beyond me!!

 

We stay we build(we moan like a bunch of absolute weirdos)

[42 not 2]

Cheaper tickets for OLD Wheatfield users next year then....

Wonder if there will be singers in the new main stand.

[mitch41]

Also a ******* disgrace that Hearts are making the biggest investment in Scottish Football infrastructure for *******s with our stand and youth development and we're getting absolute pelters from the media.

 

Something progressive is happening in Scottish football and the entire nation is desperate to call it embarrassing. I ******* hate Scottish football at times. Honestly.

Hearts are in the news and most of the news is that Hearts have identified problems and are trying to rectify them. First and probably the biggest was replacing Catho.

Second was the new stand not being ready but Murrayfield comes to the rescue. Third is the rising cost of the new stand & using Murrayfield for at least 3 games.

But we can also look forward to a new Head Coach and as promised more signing so i'd say the future doesn't look too bad.

[1971fozzy]

We have been down that route before with the Pieman and Romanov - I am not trusting "blind faith" - I am trusting Ann budge!

Spot on

[Hearts_fan]

So, we DIDN'T forget to order seats and some ***** just made that up, yes?

 

Any rational person clever enough to observe details will recognise that this error is small compared to the absolutely huge successes that have been achieved by those involved in the new stand project.

 

The question is, what kind of character ? and what kind of Hearts fan ? is it that prefers to gripe about minor failures rather than celebrate huge achievements?

[Unknown user]

Any rational person clever enough to observe details will recognise that this error is small compared to the absolutely huge successes that have been achieved by those involved in the new stand project.

 

The question is, what kind of character ? and what kind of Hearts fan ? is it that prefers to gripe about minor failures rather than celebrate huge achievements?

I think you're getting pretty snidey. Just because someone is concerned about bad news, is viewing things in a different way from you, doesn't mean you should be attacking their character, their worth as a fan, their intelligence, their ability to think rationally.

 

If you can't debate, don't attack.

[Ray Gin]

Any rational person clever enough to observe details will recognise that this error is small compared to the absolutely huge successes that have been achieved by those involved in the new stand project.

 

The question is, what kind of character ? and what kind of Hearts fan ? is it that prefers to gripe about minor failures rather than celebrate huge achievements?

Forgetting to order seats, forcing the club to play at another stadium and delay opening for 2 months is a newsworthy ####-up.

[jambali]

Forgetting to order seats, forcing the club to play at another stadium and delay opening for 2 months is a newsworthy ####-up.

Yes it was - now it's time to move on

[Jammy T]

Ok Thomaso - read your comments

 

First off the delay doesn't bother me. It was basically almost guaranteed there would be a delay. There nearly always is.

 

Re the main contractor stuff. Of course the price would have been a bit higher and of course the programme longer. They build in fat and pad out time.

 

Without a competitive tender however you can't say that the baseline was ?18m and 12 months. Competitive tenders have a habit of bringing both in.

 

Part of the reason the price is more of course is because you are passing risk to the MC - who adds an assessment of what that risk is into the price. In this case the screw up would have been a cost the MC would have had to have taken on the chin.

 

But this is why someexperienced clients (experienced in a lot of construction projects) often go into the sort of arrangement we have. TFL have started it recently with some suppliers - why pay a premium for passing on risk when you have experienced people within their employment that can properly manage projects

 

Hearts don't have such people so they brought in a team of construction professional constructions to take on that role - from what you say.

 

So far so good in theory. Client retains more risk than normal but keeps price lower.

 

So we need to look at the experience of the team of consultant professionals.

 

How many of them have been involved in a job of this nature? Not many I'd suggest because there has only been one other stand built like this in the U.K.

 

So the risk that we have is increased as I see it. We have retained risk and the people we employ to manage the job - good quality as they may be - don't have experience of this type of project.

 

That's quite a gamble by us.

 

However from the club's perspective they will have ensured - I presume - that each consultant has insurance and PI in place so that in the event of a fcuk up there is money that can be claimed back for any loss incurred.

 

Now this is where I get lost

 

Apparently an employee of the club NOT somebody that was part of the construction team (normally what would be the PM) was responsible for pressing the button on ordering our seating structure.

 

Even without the main contractor set up I just don't understand why the club let that happen. Not that the mistake happened because shit does happen on a project but that it wasn't a construction professional that was accountable and liable for any such dimwitted mistake.

 

I appreciate the time and price constraints here but I can't help feel that the club have been very poorly advised by their professional advisors.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Jammy T

[kila]

Too many essay posts! Need more photos!

 

So here is some as I walked past today. Note thomaso said earlier the silver face plates that have been put on are pressure plates and the permanent face plates won't go on for a couple of weeks

 

 

 

 

 

[Unknown user]

Too many essay posts! Need more photos!

 

So here is some as I walked past today. Note thomaso said earlier the silver face plates that have been put on are pressure plates and the permanent face plates won't go on for a couple of weeks

 

 

 

 

 

 

To be fair, Archie Leitch would be impressed!

[jambopilms]

Ok Thomaso - read your comments

 

First off the delay doesn't bother me. It was basically almost guaranteed there would be a delay. There nearly always is.

 

Re the main contractor stuff. Of course the price would have been a bit higher and of course the programme longer. They build in fat and pad out time.

 

Without a competitive tender however you can't say that the baseline was ?18m and 12 months. Competitive tenders have a habit of bringing both in.

 

Part of the reason the price is more of course is because you are passing risk to the MC - who adds an assessment of what that risk is into the price. In this case the screw up would have been a cost the MC would have had to have taken on the chin.

 

But this is why someexperienced clients (experienced in a lot of construction projects) often go into the sort of arrangement we have. TFL have started it recently with some suppliers - why pay a premium for passing on risk when you have experienced people within their employment that can properly manage projects

 

Hearts don't have such people so they brought in a team of construction professional constructions to take on that role - from what you say.

 

So far so good in theory. Client retains more risk than normal but keeps price lower.

 

So we need to look at the experience of the team of consultant professionals.

 

How many of them have been involved in a job of this nature? Not many I'd suggest because there has only been one other stand built like this in the U.K.

 

So the risk that we have is increased as I see it. We have retained risk and the people we employ to manage the job - good quality as they may be - don't have experience of this type of project.

 

That's quite a gamble by us.

 

However from the club's perspective they will have ensured - I presume - that each consultant has insurance and PI in place so that in the event of a fcuk up there is money that can be claimed back for any loss incurred.

 

Now this is where I get lost

 

Apparently an employee of the club NOT somebody that was part of the construction team (normally what would be the PM) was responsible for pressing the button on ordering our seating structure.

 

Even without the main contractor set up I just don't understand why the club let that happen. Not that the mistake happened because shit does happen on a project but that it wasn't a construction professional that was accountable and liable for any such dimwitted mistake.

 

I appreciate the time and price constraints here but I can't help feel that the club have been very poorly advised by their professional advisors.

Get over it. There is a delay and it's been dealt with so move on. How is it important to you to get answers to these points. Too many people desperate to be offended. Get a life and support your club.

[Jammy T]

Get over it. There is a delay and it's been dealt with so move on. How is it important to you to get answers to these points. Too many people desperate to be offended. Get a life and support your club.

I'm not offended at all.

[Hearts_fan]

Ok Thomaso - read your comments

 

First off the delay doesn't bother me. It was basically almost guaranteed there would be a delay. There nearly always is.

...

...

I appreciate the time and price constraints here but I can't help feel that the club have been very poorly advised by their professional advisors.

 

At least this a reasoned discussion over what happened with the seats, offering professional perspective into the process. This is better than the reactionary and baseless 'heads should roll' rhetoric.

 

I still question the need to overplay and dissect what is a comparatively minor development in a massively positive Heart of Midlothian FC project.

[mac]

At least this a reasoned discussion over what happened with the seats, offering professional perspective into the process. This is better than the reactionary and baseless 'heads should roll' rhetoric.

 

I still question the need to overplay and dissect what is a comparatively minor development in a massively positive Heart of Midlothian FC project.

Hearts_fan, please stop with your sensible and reasonable comments - we're Jambos, we're no used to that

[Jammy T]

At least this a reasoned discussion over what happened with the seats, offering professional perspective into the process. This is better than the reactionary and baseless 'heads should roll' rhetoric.

 

I still question the need to overplay and dissect what is a comparatively minor development in a massively positive Heart of Midlothian FC project.

The build isn't finished yet - that's my concern

 

Plenty can still go wrong with the wrong management structure in place.

 

Construction projects can be like a line of dominos - one or two just tipped over.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Jammy T

[Bad Religion]

The build isn't finished yet - that's my concern

 

Plenty can still go wrong with the wrong management structure in place.

 

Construction projects can be like a line of dominos - one or two just tipped over.

Get help.

[Maple Leaf]

This is the biggest HMFC project in generations.  It's something that needed to be done a long time ago, but only Ann Budge and her team have been able to pull it off.

 

The delay in the preliminary completion date is a disappointment to the fans, but I'm sure it's a bigger disappointment to the Club's employees and the others working on the project.

 

Similarly with the cost overrun. Nobody wanted that.  Most of it has been explained by Ann Budge as her making changes to the original plans.  To accuse her of dishonesty is ludicrous. There is absolutely no danger that this overrun will result in a debt milestone around the Club's neck.  When the dust is cleared, I'm confident that the Club's management will have a plan to address any shortfall.

 

I think it's reasonable that any bad news about the project be discussed, and JKB is as good a place as any to do that, but some of the personal attacks have been over the top.

[Jambof3tornado]

Is it just me that thinks the glass front looks better when viewed from the right rather than the left?? Trick of the light maybe?

[Jammy T]

Get help.

For what?

[kila]

Is it just me that thinks the glass front looks better when viewed from the right rather than the left?? Trick of the light maybe?

 

Just the angle of the photo - can't take any from the Gorgie end because it's a closed site (well, farin can)

 

Definitely get a better view of it from the Roseburn end though