Bowmans_Boot Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 No, there is not a presumption or expectation that FoH would or will cover any more of the cost beyond the ?3m agreed. There is a legal agreement in place for that amount only. Any change to that would require another vote of FoH membership. There had been nothing from official sources about FoH paying any more than that. If on the first vote it had been a no, the club would have had to borrow money commercially and gone into debt. This way we will most likely come out of the process with the stand already paid for, and debt free (apart from the repayment to Ann budge). Funding wise, if that is the outcome, that is brilliant planning. Most other clubs would have to borrow many millions to build something like this. We are only going to come out of it debt free because FOH will pay for it! The club itself had no plan for funding at all, which was wholly irresponsible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Spot on. When Ann made the announcement that we were going ahead with the desperately required new stand she justifiably had a "presumption and expectation" that the team would be in line for 4th place money, qualify for Europe prize money, and progress in the LC - the appointment of Cathro put paid to that!! You'll be in trouble again for the last comment. Just as well you never mentioned CL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I like honesty. I dont believe the club were honest when planning or announcing the new stand funding. Still not answered his question I see. You are rather good at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 We are only going to come out of it debt free because FOH will pay for it! The club itself had no plan for funding at all, which was wholly irresponsible. You do realise the FoH will own the club AND the stadium/new stand? It's not as if we're throwing money away on some project that'll never benefit us fans... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottg71 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 There really are some complete and utter arseholes who class themselves as Hearts supporters. Embarrassing Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Simply, we don't know yet. Once the stand is finished and the cost a are covered we'll know she made the right choice. Until then we won't know and if it doesn't happen then we know she made the wrong choice. Did she make the right choice AT THE TIME???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fxxx the SPFL Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 You do realise the FoH will own the club AND the stadium/new stand? It's not as if we're throwing money away on some project that'll never benefit us fans... some folk just don't get it Kila Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 We are only going to come out of it debt free because FOH will pay for it! The club itself had no plan for funding at all, which was wholly irresponsible. Yeh so you keep saying!!! So I ask you again - on the basis that there was an underfunding of ?3m, should Budge have cancelled the building of the new stand at Tynecastle, and lost the opportunity FOR EVER?????? A simple YES or NO will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I like honesty. I dont believe the club were honest when planning or announcing the new stand funding. Then give us an answer to my question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Landmesser Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 We are only going to come out of it debt free because FOH will pay for it! The club itself had no plan for funding at all, which was wholly irresponsible.Apart from all the funding that the club has in place, you're 100% correct... Sent from my FP2 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowmans_Boot Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Yeh so you keep saying!!! So I ask you again - on the basis that there was an underfunding of ?3m, should Budge have cancelled the building of the new stand at Tynecastle, and lost the opportunity FOR EVER?????? A simple YES or NO will do. She should have been honest about the funding. Other owners would have been slated over this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 3 cheers for the workers, Ann Budge, Thomaso and the others who are all doing a great job. Having been involved in many building projects I realise that unforeseen challenges such as supply delays can adversely affect deadlines.Who really cares if we have to wait another few weeks for the marvellous new stand - we have been waiting probably 30 or 40 years since the old one was really not fit for purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Just to put this into context, a good friend of mine is a Director with a major Main Contractor in Scotland - he is also a big Hearts fan. He was obviously interested in the project and priced up the plans and programmed it. He told me if a Main Contractor built the new stand development you were looking at a price around ?18m with a 12 month programme. This of course would not meet the Club's requirement in terms of budget and programme. From day one the Club did not want to go down the Main Contractor route as they were subjected to disputes and claims on the building of the other stands, and they appointed a very able Project Manager to co-ordinate the subcontractors carrying out the work. Because many of the subcontract Companies are 'Hearts minded' they are building the new stand at a very competitive price, and have done all possible to achieve what was always a huge ask in terms of the Aberdeen game. With regards to accusations of 'bad planning' I think some are totally oblivious of the planning that had to take place to mitigate the logistical difficulties of commencing the build when the old stand was still in operation, erection of a huge truss, the complex demolition of the out buildings and old stand, the very tight space to operate on site, and having to bring in essential material from Korea because they were the sole manufacturers. Another problem has been the regular 'summer' downpours that flood the site and floor plates of the building. With the greatest respect it is a minor miracle that this new stand complex building is being built to the current price and programme that has now developed. What I'm getting from this is that the club had ridiculous expectations of what was achievable within the timescale and budget - I mean if it's a minor miracle that we're two months late, that means someone didn't understand the logistical challenges that lay ahead. And I don't see how anyone can call that good planning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 She should have been honest about the funding. Other owners would have been slated over this. Yeh yeh yeh - so you keep saying! Still refusing to answer a simple question - why is that??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Yeh yeh yeh - so you keep saying! Still refusing to answer a simple question - why is that??? It's true though, I guarantee that pieman had good intentions, but he still made a right old **** of the whole thing. Good intentions aren't enough and it worries me that a guy with IMO a reasonable view on it is being shouted down. I don't know what Ann should have done, or what I would have done, but I'm really worried about this and I understand the feeling of being taken for granted too - I'm not there myself but I get it. FWIW I know there are loads of good people working their tits off, and appreciation and thanks should go to them - but that doesn't mean the most important and expensive infrastructure project in decades should be above critical examination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Religion Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 She should have been honest about the funding. Other owners would have been slated over this. Lets be open and honest about your agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Did she make the right choice AT THE TIME???? No idea. It's the choice I would have taken but I don't think decisions can be judged as right or wrong until the outcome is complete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Order Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Yeh yeh yeh - so you keep saying! Still refusing to answer a simple question - why is that??? Thomaso, do you still have the old bricks etc? If so just pull everything down and put the old stand back. Some people will newer be happy with the new stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 What I'm getting from this is that the club had ridiculous expectations of what was achievable within the timescale and budget - I mean if it's a minor miracle that we're two months late, that means someone didn't understand the logistical challenges that lay ahead. And I don't see how anyone can call that good planning. Depends what you mean by "Planning" - once the button was pressed there was a huge amount of logistical planning put in place by the Project Manager and Contractors to demolish the outer buildings, transport and erect the huge truss, demolish the old stand whist other worked on site, etc, etc. This project planning has been IMO highly successful. From the Club's point of view (as has been explained in detail previously) the window of opportunity was extremely tight to build the stand, resulting in the design and cost plan being rushed through. Educated assumptions were made with regards to the price and programme that have now proven to be "ambitious". At the end of the day Ann Budge could have sat on her hands and done nothing. Instead she grasped the opportunity for future generations of Hearts fans to stay at Tynecastle in a modern and money generating stadium. Yes the new stand is over budget and delayed, however she deserves massive credit for having the balls (excuse me!) for taking this project forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 No idea. It's the choice I would have taken but I don't think decisions can be judged as right or wrong until the outcome is complete. Great - so you agree she made the right decision at the time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Bowmans Boot getting wrecked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Great - so you agree she made the right decision at the time! No I don't. I agree she made A decision and the success of that decision will prove whether it was right or wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glottis Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Good planning is having a provision for when things don't go to plan. That's what Hearts have done. It was always ambitious (but achievable) to build the stand in the allotted time so they planned an alternative. They didn't just plan it- they put it in place making arrangements with sru, sfa and multiple clubs. We've then had a ridiculous amount of rain this summer (its pishing down now!) I can't understand why any Hearts fan would be as critical as many posters have been here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejbh Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 We are only going to come out of it debt free because FOH will pay for it! The club itself had no plan for funding at all, which was wholly irresponsible. The plan was for FoH to fund part of it up to ?3m, and that is what's happening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) It's true though, I guarantee that pieman had good intentions, but he still made a right old **** of the whole thing. Good intentions aren't enough and it worries me that a guy with IMO a reasonable view on it is being shouted down. I don't know what Ann should have done, or what I would have done, but I'm really worried about this and I understand the feeling of being taken for granted too - I'm not there myself but I get it. FWIW I know there are loads of good people working their tits off, and appreciation and thanks should go to them - but that doesn't mean the most important and expensive infrastructure project in decades should be above critical examination. The Pieman may well have had good intentions, however he was devious and frankly I never thought he had great business acumen. Ann Budge is a highly intelligent business woman and an entirely different kettle of fish. You must surely have an idea of the decision you would have made whether or not we should go ahead with the building of the new stand. Taking into account the timescale forced on the Club, and bearing in mind that the opportunity would be lost for ever - what decision would you have taken? Hopefully you can give me a straight answer to a simple question that others refuse to answer. Edited August 4, 2017 by Thomaso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 No I don't. I agree she made A decision and the success of that decision will prove whether it was right or wrong. You said "it's the choice I would have taken" - what led you to that conclusion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobboM Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Just to put this into context, a good friend of mine is a Director with a major Main Contractor in Scotland - he is also a big Hearts fan. He was obviously interested in the project and priced up the plans and programmed it. He told me if a Main Contractor built the new stand development you were looking at a price around ?18m with a 12 month programme. This of course would not meet the Club's requirement in terms of budget and programme. From day one the Club did not want to go down the Main Contractor route as they were subjected to disputes and claims on the building of the other stands, and they appointed a very able Project Manager to co-ordinate the subcontractors carrying out the work. Because many of the subcontract Companies are 'Hearts minded' they are building the new stand at a very competitive price, and have done all possible to achieve what was always a huge ask in terms of the Aberdeen game. With regards to accusations of 'bad planning' I think some are totally oblivious of the planning that had to take place to mitigate the logistical difficulties of commencing the build when the old stand was still in operation, erection of a huge truss, the complex demolition of the out buildings and old stand, the very tight space to operate on site, and having to bring in essential material from Korea because they were the sole manufacturers. Another problem has been the regular 'summer' downpours that flood the site and floor plates of the building. With the greatest respect it is a minor miracle that this new stand complex building is being built to the current price and programme that has now developed. Thanks for this Thomaso My starting point for this is that Hearts management and the contractors have clearly been busting a gut to get completed for 9 Sept. Once it becomes apparant that that date can't be met then it makes sense to bite the bullet and make alternative arrangements. It clearly isn't a simple task to switch for a single fixture so it's reasonable to build in a wee bit extra contingency in the timing. So be it. Crack on with the build and let's get back to seeing pictures of the build and share what you can of the details and reasoning. For me it's been a real bonus and very welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Not all of the funding was (or is) in place. That, for me, is poor planning. They presumed that FOH would cover any shortfall, which isnt entirely fair or honest. I dont appreciate being taken for granted and, as a FOH contributor from the start, I have been here. Horrendous answer that fudged the question put to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selkirkhmfc1874 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Find it incredible that anybody can in anyway negative towards ann budge on this , keeping us in Gorgie and building new stand will be her legecy for decades to come imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartsofgold Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 We are only going to come out of it debt free because FOH will pay for it! The club itself had no plan for funding at all, which was wholly irresponsible. So here and now BB, let us know how you would have liked the club to fund this project? 1. Borrow on the commercial markets? Answer - Pretty much impossible at a competetive rate as we had only recently come out of administration and our credit rating was in the sewar. 2. God know cos there was no other options available to raise between ?3-?6 Million in such a short space of time. What the club/board/FoH/fans have done for our club in a VERY VERY short space of time in nothing short of miraculous. Why do so many people have to knock down the achievements we've done over the last 3 years? It boils my piss!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 She should have been honest about the funding. Other owners would have been slated over this.YES OR NO. Come on you can do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopeDiouf Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I like honesty. I dont believe the club were honest when planning or announcing the new stand funding. Seems pretty honest to me....http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36188593 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Future's Maroon Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 No-one braved the weather to get more pics.....to get away from the petty bickering, this used to be a highly positive thread and somewhere fans could go to in order to avoid all the bickering on other threads! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I like honesty. I dont believe the club were honest when planning or announcing the new stand funding. That's just not true. At a meeting I attended, before build started, Eric said there was still ?3million to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 No-one braved the weather to get more pics.....to get away from the petty bickering, this used to be a highly positive thread and somewhere fans could go to in order to avoid all the bickering on other threads! I blame the grey panels........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glamorous Glue Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Does anyone know the current position regarding the funding? What he have and what we still need? Or is this yet to be disclosed ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 3 cheers for the workers, Ann Budge, Thomaso and the others who are all doing a great job. Having been involved in many building projects I realise that unforeseen challenges such as supply delays can adversely affect deadlines.Who really cares if we have to wait another few weeks for the marvellous new stand - we have been waiting probably 30 or 40 years since the old one was really not fit for purpose. The current stadium regeneration started 25 years ago and should have started earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EIEIO Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 No-one braved the weather to get more pics.....to get away from the petty bickering, this used to be a highly positive thread and somewhere fans could go to in order to avoid all the bickering on other threads!Agree this used to be my favourite thread, bring back the photos and cut the crap. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) You said "it's the choice I would have taken" - what led you to that conclusion?Because I wanted to have the stand redeveloped and the plan in place looked good. It's a solid decision. If the stand fails to be completed as we run out of money, lose all our fixtures whilst it is closed due to playing away from home then it would have unfortunately been the wrong decision. It's like Schroedinger's cat I guess. You might have insight to make you think the cat is alive but until you open that box it is both and neither. Edited August 4, 2017 by Taffin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Order Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) I was up taking a few earlier. So for the sake of getting the thread back on track: Looks like the site is being cleared and land works are beginning in front of the stand. Edited August 4, 2017 by Jambo Cartman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 The Pieman may well have had good intentions, however he was devious and frankly I never thought he had great business acumen. Ann Budge is a highly intelligent business woman and an entirely different kettle of fish. You must surely have an idea of the decision you would have made whether or not we should go ahead with the building of the new stand. Taking into account the timescale forced on the Club, and bearing in mind that the opportunity would be lost for ever - what decision would you have taken? Hopefully you can give me a straight answer to a simple question that others refuse to answer. This doesn't come down to "Yeah but was she right to build the stand? Was she? Was she?", To me she probably was right but I don't care to get into it, I've never said otherwise and I'm not the one you're arguing with. There are other things that can and should IMO be questioned though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgeJambo Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 To be honest, if FOH helps with additional funding for completing this magnificent stand then so be it. That must be the fundamental purpose of FOH up until and thereafter fan ownership takes place If it means a delay in fan ownership then so be it New stand, debt free and a competitive team on the park is the immediate future and with the current leadership we will achieve this imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowmans_Boot Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 YES OR NO. Come on you can do it I did answer the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradley51 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 https://twitter.com/jamtarts/status/893496974388887552 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Right then.............Who never put the order in????!!!!! I think it was Levein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 https://twitter.com/jamtarts/status/893496974388887552 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Good. Answers, an admission of culpability and the club taking responsibility for a mistake. As I've said god knows how many times now, good people make mistakes all the time and good intentions simply aren't enough to put blind faith in. I would still like to know the financial implications of having to rent another stadium and what have you though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Not all of the funding was (or is) in place. That, for me, is poor planning. They presumed that FOH would cover any shortfall, which isnt entirely fair or honest. I dont appreciate being taken for granted and, as a FOH contributor from the start, I have been here. You're just making shit up now, for the sake of having a go at the club. Utterly pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars plastic Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Just spent most of the afternoon in the new stand. It really is going to be something else. Stood literally where my seat will be. Oh ya forest tucker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I like honesty. I dont believe the club were honest when planning or announcing the new stand funding. For someone who likes honesty, you're surprisingly non-averse to telling lies in an attempt to discredit Ann Budge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I did answer the question. Must have missed that - was it a YES or a NO - or another fudge from you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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