Brexit?

[JamboX2]

?3 per hour paid to textyle workers in Britain.

Less than half the minium rate.

 

But but the EU Protects workers.

 

No. The EU provides a base level on employment rights. It enshrines rights to maternity and paternity leave. To holiday pay (which European courts said businesses in Britain had to repay workers who were denied it!). It means you cannot be just simply sacked. It means you cannot simply be laid off.

 

If you want higher wages or the minimum wage enforced then call up your Trade Union. Phone your MPs and MSPs. Go seek employment advice or citizens advice. It is illegal to be paid under minimum wage. We should be enforcing these wages. We shouldbe hard on companies who don't.

 

That is a BRITISH problem not an EU one.

 

If ever there was a case for controlled immigration this is it.

Or is this the back up for the argument we need immigrants to do the jobs others wont?

Pretty much. Also chuck in the demographic time bomb in that we have fewer and fewer people working in relation to people retiring.

 

Immigration is not part of the problem it is part of the solution.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

?3 per hour paid to textyle workers in Britain.

Less than half the minium rate.

 

But but the EU Protects workers.

 

If ever there was a case for controlled immigration this is it.

Or is this the back up for the argument we need immigrants to do the jobs others wont?

 

Terrible if true (not disputing you).

I wonder how many people are actually British born who are working in these factories, as I don't think most British workers would put up with this exploitation.

 

I'm not going to mention anyone or any place, but I know a guy (ex workmate) who got a job in a hotel and it turned out he was one of only two British born workers there, the rest were all from the EU or further.

He didn't last that long, not after when he was expected to stay on after his shift unpaid, on 3 days on the trot he worked over 2 hours extra each day, didn't get paid for it.

When he complained he basically got told the door is there if you don't like it, there's plenty more that'll take your place.

The foreign born workers there just put up with it, mainly because they were scared to complain in case they got sacked, exploitation, that's what happens when you have unlimited immigration.

This is one of the reasons why big business wants to stay in the EU, cheap labour.

[JamboX2]

He has not stood a chance.

Not only has reporting of him been negative its been antagonistic and also faked.

The oxbridge element that has hijacked labour constantly brief against him.

 

Theres loads i dont agree with him but its yet another indication of media that is as controlled as any other worldwide.

 

There are of course many other sources of information.

Which unsurprisingly are the ones labelled fake.

Jake you do make the some decent points. But drop the conspiracy stuff. Corbyn us an ineffective leader. He is swept aside in debate and contradicts his own policies often.

 

I'm not calling on Tristram Hunt for leader. Just someone who can tie his own shoelaces and dress himself in the morning. That's all I want to see.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

No. The EU provides a base level on employment rights. It enshrines rights to maternity and paternity leave. To holiday pay (which European courts said businesses in Britain had to repay workers who were denied it!). It means you cannot be just simply sacked. It means you cannot simply be laid off.

 

If you want higher wages or the minimum wage enforced then call up your Trade Union. Phone your MPs and MSPs. Go seek employment advice or citizens advice. It is illegal to be paid under minimum wage. We should be enforcing these wages. We shouldbe hard on companies who don't.

 

That is a BRITISH problem not an EU one.

 

 

Pretty much. Also chuck in the demographic time bomb in that we have fewer and fewer people working in relation to people retiring.

 

Immigration is not part of the problem it is part of the solution.

 

If only it were that easy, many of the immigrants can barely speak English, have no idea of their rights or employment law or that there even is an employment law, also they know that they can be replaced easily so tend to keep their heads down and their mouths shut.  Not everywhere has union representation, so to even mention a union would see you straight out the door.

 

Of course most places are legit and treat their workers right, but believe what I've described above happens, sadly more frequently than most people know about.

[aussieh]

?3 per hour paid to textyle workers in Britain.

Less than half the minium rate.

 

But but the EU Protects workers.

 

If ever there was a case for controlled immigration this is it.

Or is this the back up for the argument we need immigrants to do the jobs others wont?

How in earth is that the EU's fault?

Try WM.

[aussieh]

Corbyn has been stitched up by every press outlet in this country and thats indisputable.

You'll be happy soon, when the Scottish Parliament enshrined in EU law is shut.

[aussieh]

Jake you do make the some decent points. But drop the conspiracy stuff. Corbyn us an ineffective leader. He is swept aside in debate and contradicts his own policies often.

 

I'm not calling on Tristram Hunt for leader. Just someone who can tie his own shoelaces and dress himself in the morning. That's all I want to see.

Burnham

[aussieh]

?3 per hour paid to textyle workers in Britain.

Less than half the minium rate.

 

But but the EU Protects workers.

 

If ever there was a case for controlled immigration this is it.

Or is this the back up for the argument we need immigrants to do the jobs others wont?

If you want a pay rise,ask for one.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

If you want a pay rise,ask for one.

 

Did you watch the programme?

 

[jake]

Jake you do make the some decent points. But drop the conspiracy stuff. Corbyn us an ineffective leader. He is swept aside in debate and contradicts his own policies often.

 

I'm not calling on Tristram Hunt for leader. Just someone who can tie his own shoelaces and dress himself in the morning. That's all I want to see.

 

Its not conspiracy though.

Together with the bbc trust admitting that the political editor manufactured his answers to make him look bad is not the only proof.

 

Its well documented the press bias against him by independent studies.

[aussieh]

Did you watch the programme?

Which one?

I see Britland are reverting back to imperial measures and money. Good old number 12.

[jake]

If you want a pay rise,ask for one.

 

Ignorant as usual.

[jake]

No. The EU provides a base level on employment rights. It enshrines rights to maternity and paternity leave. To holiday pay (which European courts said businesses in Britain had to repay workers who were denied it!). It means you cannot be just simply sacked. It means you cannot simply be laid off.

 

If you want higher wages or the minimum wage enforced then call up your Trade Union. Phone your MPs and MSPs. Go seek employment advice or citizens advice. It is illegal to be paid under minimum wage. We should be enforcing these wages. We shouldbe hard on companies who don't.

 

That is a BRITISH problem not an EU one.

 

 

Pretty much. Also chuck in the demographic time bomb in that we have fewer and fewer people working in relation to people retiring.

 

Immigration is not part of the problem it is part of the solution.

 

If we welcome immigrants to this country they should be treated equally.

 

And they label me racist?

[aussieh]

Ignorant as usual.

Still catching up on utube, goes a chance Jake. Here Jake, what about all those marks the SAS made for Obama to hit.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Which one?

I see Britland are reverting back to imperial measures and money. Good old number 12.

 

The Dispatches programme on CH4, which was the programme Jake was on about for paying ?3 wages per hour.

If you had watched it you would know exactly why these people can't just ask for a pay rise.

[aussieh]

The Dispatches programme on CH4, which was the programme Jake was on about for paying ?3 wages per hour.

If you had watched it you would know exactly why these people can't just ask for a pay rise.

It's Ch4, it's not real.

[aussieh]

?3 per hour paid to textyle workers in Britain.

Less than half the minium rate.

 

But but the EU Protects workers.

 

If ever there was a case for controlled immigration this is it.

Or is this the back up for the argument we need immigrants to do the jobs others wont?

Fake News.

If true I can't believe they actually paid you.

[jake]

Still catching up on utube, goes a chance Jake. Here Jake, what about all those marks the SAS made for Obama to hit.

 

What about them?

[aussieh]

What about them?

So, you're ok with the fact the British Armies Special forces, targeted hospitals and schools for The UK government on the behest of Obama.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

It's Ch4, it's not real.

 

Jake was right.

[jake]

Fake News.

If true I can't believe they actually paid you.

 

You're so much better than me aussie.

I bow before you.

 

Im sure guys like you will only win the argument for independence.

[aussieh]

Jake was right.

Fake news

[jake]

So, you're ok with the fact the British Armies Special forces, targeted hospitals and schools for The UK government on the behest of Obama.

 

Definitely not.

What makes you think i would be?

[jake]

Oh and to answer jambox2 and aussie.

 

I didnt blame the EU in my post.

But one of the main arguments of remain voters was the protection of workers rights.

 

What i will hold partly responsible is the freedom of movement which imo is only to benefit companies like this .

No restrictions.

No questions on where they will work and for who.

With the relevant documents from the company.

 

Immediately because people wish to control immigration its the usual assumptions.

[aussieh]

Definitely not.

What makes you think i would be?

You seem to think it was a one man obliteration.

[jake]

You seem to think it was a one man obliteration.

 

He was the president.

He and only he can sanction the use of American forces .

 

Was he really in charge will trump be?

I think we all know that there are very powerful influences that ultimately dictate .

Im just arguing the facts of his presidency.

Facts aussie.

 

You know like an increase of middle east countries bombed.

Like retraction of civil rights

Like deportation records higher than ever of immigrants.

Like jailing of whistleblowers.

Like bugging allied leaders phones

Like 26,000 bombs dropped in his last year alone

Like mass troop and armoured vehicle's towards russian borders.

Like increased african american povert

Like increased poverty in general.

 

Theres lots more .

 

They are all facts .

[JamboX2]

Its not conspiracy though.

Together with the bbc trust admitting that the political editor manufactured his answers to make him look bad is not the only proof.

 

Its well documented the press bias against him by independent studies.

Have you watched him in Parliament or make a speech?

[JamboX2]

If we welcome immigrants to this country they should be treated equally.

 

And they label me racist?

What!?! We should welcome immigration. It's not a bad thing. They shoukd be treated equally - the law applies equally. Want to stop sweat shops and undercutting the minimum wage? Then punish the businesses doing this. Punish the recruitment agencies hiring people from overseas before British people through crap contracts and low wages.

[jake]

What!?! We should welcome immigration. It's not a bad thing. They shoukd be treated equally - the law applies equally. Want to stop sweat shops and undercutting the minimum wage? Then punish the businesses doing this. Punish the recruitment agencies hiring people from overseas before British people through crap contracts and low wages.

 

I have never said immigration was a bad thing.

But unlike you i dont want it for cheap labour.

 

Did you notice the origins of the workers involved.

 

Can you not see this is a result of freedom of movement.

Business will always exploit.

Its the nature of it.

Which is why the UK has some of the best protection.

Not given by the wonderful EU but fought for by generations of workers and granted by democratically elected government.

Something you would see undermined by your wish for TTIP .

 

Perhaps you should wonder why zero hour contracts so easily mushroomed in this country.

By companies who are not backstreet workshops.

Because the freedom of movement allows for those from poorer nations to take up the slack for richer nations.

Keeping wages down while the rights of workers are eroded further.

 

Thats the reality.

 

People actually believing that trading blocs and concetration of power is good for the working man whilst slagging of others for being duped.

[jake]

Have you watched him in Parliament or make a speech?

 

Ah i see so principle and policy mean nothing.

 

X factor.

 

I think naively he thought that pmq should be less punch and judy.

I think he wanted to take the labour party away from tory lite.

 

Unfortunately the media and press painted a picture which people like yourself buy into.

Its well documented the bbc agrnda and biased reporting of him.

The editing of photos and interviews.

The antagonistic pieces on him.

 

If you want links to this i can.

But its easy to do yourself.

[JamboX2]

Ah i see so principle and policy mean nothing.

 

X factor.

 

I think naively he thought that pmq should be less punch and judy.

I think he wanted to take the labour party away from tory lite.

 

Unfortunately the media and press painted a picture which people like yourself buy into.

Its well documented the bbc agrnda and biased reporting of him.

The editing of photos and interviews.

The antagonistic pieces on him.

 

If you want links to this i can.

But its easy to do yourself.

Right - I've read the stories as well. They are bad to do such things. I do not disagree with you there.

 

However, Corbyn has won election to lead Labour twice and has made 0 headway twice. He is posted mia on major government announcements, he never successfully capitalises on government failings. He contradicts his own policy pronouncements. He can't hammer home any wins at PMQs - the window most see of leaders in their job.

 

He's a busted flush. Some of his policies would be good enacted. But he needs to win to enact them. He can't do that because he won't win. He's got Labour 16 points behind the Tories. He's part of Labour's issue in Scotland with the approval rating here equally low. He cannot and is not leading a successful or efficient opposition.

 

All of that is blatant from were Labour is and since his leadership began it has gotten worse.

 

Labour were painted dangerous marxists in the last election. Now May, Hammond and Greg Clarke are enacting Miliband and Balls's policies - workers on boards, living wage, devolution to English cities, increased house building... the list goes on. Christ, energy price capping has been mooted.

 

The Labour Party were left of the Tories in 2010, 2015 and are still left, but the Tories have stolen their left policies. So Torylite is bollocks. As is lack of values and principles.

 

Tell me what Corbyn's policy platform is beyond slogans and I as a party member will shake your hand. Backed him first time and feel let down by his leadership, his vacuousness and his inability to lay a hand on the failed, divided and crisis ridden Tory government.

[Francis Albert]

Corbyn has been stitched up by every press outlet in this country and thats indisputable.

The Guardian has been incredibly sympathetic to probably the worst, most incompetent leader of any major party in my lifetime. And that certainly includes Michael Foot, an intellectual giant compared to Corbyn.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

What!?! We should welcome immigration. It's not a bad thing. They shoukd be treated equally - the law applies equally. Want to stop sweat shops and undercutting the minimum wage? Then punish the businesses doing this. Punish the recruitment agencies hiring people from overseas before British people through crap contracts and low wages.

 

As was clearly demonstrated in the Dispatches programme last night, these kind of factories in the UK can be shut down and effectively open the next day with someone else in charge.

The people working in these factories the vast majority of whom English wasn't their first language have no other choice but to work for the wages offered, and often go from one factory to another.

The programme was from Leicester and there were 10 factories that they knew off within a small area, all making clothes for the UK high street, household names and paying their workers ?3 per hour.

Now I need to add this was unknown by the high street companies, as the work was sub-contracted out, from my own experience it can often be sub-contracted out two or three times.

 

The people working in these sweatshops in the UK don't have the option of going to a trade union or the authorities, for one they need the money plain and simple besides even if they did they couldn't live nor work again within that community.

 

10 Factories in a small area just in Leicester, replicate that in near enough every city and large town in the UK and you might just be able to start to see the scale of the problem.

There are hundreds of thousands maybe even millions of workers being exploited in the UK every single day, nearly all can't or don't want to complain for fear of the sack or worse.

 

Just yesterday two brothers were jailed for trafficking 18 Polish men, paying for them to come to the UK, getting them jobs at Sports Direct in Shirebrook, but took their wages from them.

Sadly this isn't an isolated case, far from it, this is going on every day in the UK.

 

I'm not blaming the EU for this, as this will continue whether we are in the EU or not to some degree, however the freedom of movement of people, has been a god send for the traffickers and exploiters, as it did in the case above.

[Boris]

As was clearly demonstrated in the Dispatches programme last night, these kind of factories in the UK can be shut down and effectively open the next day with someone else in charge.

The people working in these factories the vast majority of whom English wasn't their first language have no other choice but to work for the wages offered, and often go from one factory to another.

The programme was from Leicester and there were 10 factories that they knew off within a small area, all making clothes for the UK high street, household names and paying their workers ?3 per hour.

Now I need to add this was unknown by the high street companies, as the work was sub-contracted out, from my own experience it can often be sub-contracted out two or three times.

 

The people working in these sweatshops in the UK don't have the option of going to a trade union or the authorities, for one they need the money plain and simple besides even if they did they couldn't live nor work again within that community.

 

10 Factories in a small area just in Leicester, replicate that in near enough every city and large town in the UK and you might just be able to start to see the scale of the problem.

There are hundreds of thousands maybe even millions of workers being exploited in the UK every single day, nearly all can't or don't want to complain for fear of the sack or worse.

 

Just yesterday two brothers were jailed for trafficking 18 Polish men, paying for them to come to the UK, getting them jobs at Sports Direct in Shirebrook, but took their wages from them.

Sadly this isn't an isolated case, far from it, this is going on every day in the UK.

 

I'm not blaming the EU for this, as this will continue whether we are in the EU or not to some degree, however the freedom of movement of people, has been a god send for the traffickers and exploiters, as it did in the case above.

 

So the problem isn't immigration, rather the unscrupulous "capitalists" happy to use slave labour and other illegal practices to make a bigger profit.

Surely this is where the ire of the people should be aimed at?  These are the people who are ruining the coountry, taking liberties etc but never, ever ar ethey called out for the expoiltative oppressors that they truly are.

 

What is the government doing about this?  Square root fo bugger all.

[Boris]

The Guardian has been incredibly sympathetic to probably the worst, most incompetent leader of any major party in my lifetime. And that certainly includes Michael Foot, an intellectual giant compared to Corbyn.

 

You must get a different edition to me.

[reaths17]

It's Ch4, it's not real.

ah, more of the ostrich act from one of the fishes disciples, bravo

[aussieh]

ah, more of the ostrich act from one of the fishes disciples, bravo

Think about it. Who have I replied to and his agendas of late concerning, fake news.

But hey you bang on about disciples , ironic that. Britnat.

[Prince Buaben]

Government loses the appeal on Brexit. 

 

Parliament must vote to trigger article 50. A foregone conclusion surely?

[Prince Buaben]

Don't hold out much hope of a foregone conclusion.

 

 

 

Surely an MP isn't going to vote their personal beliefs over the views of the constituency they represent. 

So if they wanted to remain but there constituency returned a leave majority then they will vote to leave?

 

Or is it not as black and white is that?

[Bindy Badgy]

Surely an MP isn't going to vote their personal beliefs over the views of the constituency they represent. 

So if they wanted to remain but there constituency returned a leave majority then they will vote to leave?

 

Or is it not as black and white is that?

 

Depends on how much he wants to be re-elected I suppose.

 

I might be wrong on this (30 seconds with Google didn't turn up any results) but I think that some Australian politicians forced through gun control legislation against their constituents wishes after the Port Arthur massacre.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

The right decision. Parliament should have to approve this first.

 

In saying that, Parliament is going to have to approve this. 

[Francis Albert]

Don't hold out much hope of a foregone conclusion.

 

Delighted that Welsh AM's(see Carwyn Jones, and lesser extent, Leanne Wood) have in effect been told to **** off, and Wales will get what it gets.

 

Jones is a ****** idiot, who despite losing the Brexit vote, is still not listening to what the Welsh electorate wants. And is taken his personal stance, as the de facto consensus for everyone in Wales.

 

He's still under the impression, that immigration is of course a big reason why Wales voted overwhelmingly to leave, but that the public didn't want to leave the EU single market. Agriculture subsidies at risk etc, etc,

 

Wrong, the majority of the half-wits up in the Valleys who voted, voted only for getting the Poles, Liths & Romanians out, so they could have a minimum wage type factory job, offered to them instead.

 

Problem being, the same arseholes are far happier scamming the state in benefits, and think a factory job's beneath them. ****** hillbillies.

Is this some sort of parody of Remain views?

[Francis Albert]

The right decision. Parliament should have to approve this first.

 

In saying that, Parliament is going to have to approve this.

Having voted 6 to 1 to hold the referendum it is hard to see how they can ignore the result and retain a shred of credibility.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Having voted 6 to 1 to hold the referendum it is hard to see how they can ignore the result and retain a shred of credibility.

 

I don't think Parliament will dare oppose it. Individual MPs know they'll be called out by the Daily Mail and the like and exposed to all sorts of abuse.

 

Depressing scenario tbh. The referendum should never have been held. Cameron was a spineless dickhead

[Cade]

Parliament will vote it through with only 150 or so voting against (56 SNP plus backbenchers from all other parties)

 

The fact that the Govt took this all the way to the Supreme Court is shameful. They were trying to subvert the law and go against the constitution. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Parliament will vote it through with only 150 or so voting against (56 SNP plus backbenchers from all other parties)

 

The fact that the Govt took this all the way to the Supreme Court is shameful. They were trying to subvert the law and go against the constitution. 

 

Waste of time and money. If you're so confident in the public vote then why be scared of parliament?

 

The leave side are 100 per cent paranoid that the referendum result is going to be annulled, which is why May messed about in court. Just put it to parliament, invoke article 50 and then crack on with coming up with some deal which isn't a complete shitstorm.

[Francis Albert]

I don't think Parliament will dare oppose it. Individual MPs know they'll be called out by the Daily Mail and the like and exposed to all sorts of abuse.

 

Depressing scenario tbh. The referendum should never have been held. Cameron was a spineless dickhead

Depressing if you are a remainer. But you can't blame or give credit to the Daily Mail for MPs votes. Having voted overwhelmingly to hold a referendum I think enough will feel morally obliged to accept the result irrespective of their personal views. If not MPs are even bigger unprincipled shits than they are given credit for.

[Francis Albert]

Parliament will vote it through with only 150 or so voting against (56 SNP plus backbenchers from all other parties)

 

The fact that the Govt took this all the way to the Supreme Court is shameful. They were trying to subvert the law and go against the constitution.

The last sentence is nonsense. The Supreme Court is part of the Constitution and the law, and the fact that 3 of the Supreme Court judges voted against shows there were legitimate different views on the issue. The Supreme Court is a fairly new innovation (a Blair invention I think) and its powers will be determined by cases such as these. It looks like we may be seeing the beginning of more judicial influence on the way laws are made as well as interpreted, with the Supreme Court becoming more politically powerful, if not to the extent of its US counterpart. It will be interesting to see if there is more intervention in the use of the Royal Prerogative, which up to now has rarely (if ever?) been challenged, for example on foreign interventions by UK forces (or the application of EU laws for that matter).

Whether you think this is a good thing or not is another matter.

[Seymour M Hersh]

At least they had the sense to cut wee nippy off at the knees. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

I don't think Parliament will dare oppose it. Individual MPs know they'll be called out by the Daily Mail and the like and exposed to all sorts of abuse.

 

Depressing scenario tbh. The referendum should never have been held. Cameron was a spineless dickhead

 

True but he never thought he'd lose.