Brexit?

[Sidsnot]

Thanks Sidnot for quoting Barnier saying " the EU wants a deal". Not interested in what an opinion piece say about Farage, Arron Banks or Katie Hopkins, none of them will be anywhere near the negotiations.

Aye,and with Scotland in it,England will crumble in a few years time,they've always needed us to pull them out of a hole,they need to realise they can't keep holding on like a wee baby,it's time they grew up,they're a noose around our necks.

[Francis Albert]

And the observer believes that the brussels bureaucracy has preserved peace in (some of) europe for 60 years and somehow Brexit will throw that away. It is Nato that has been responsible for the "peace" and the uk was not even a member of the eu when that peace was most threatened during the height of the cold warfor example during the berlin airlift in the 60's.

[JamboX2]

And the observer believes that the brussels bureaucracy has preserved peace in (some of) europe for 60 years and somehow Brexit will throw that away. It is Nato that has been responsible for the "peace" and the uk was not even a member of the eu when that peace was most threatened during the height of the cold warfor example during the berlin airlift in the 60's.

Nah. Both have ensured peace. NATO stopped Soviet aggression but the EU (as was and is) has built up cooperation and economic reliance between nations in Europe which has safeguarded and built a sustainable peace.

 

The EU has been a force for good largely.

[SwindonJambo]

Aye,and with Scotland in it,England will crumble in a few years time,they've always needed us to pull them out of a hole,they need to realise they can't keep holding on like a wee baby,it's time they grew up,they're a noose around our necks.

What on Earth do you base that view on?

[aussieh]

Aye,and with Scotland in it,England will crumble in a few years time,they've always needed us to pull them out of a hole,they need to realise they can't keep holding on like a wee baby,it's time they grew up,they're a noose around our necks.

I'm pretty sure we'll both do just fine independently, it's the Union that's the problem.

[aussieh]

So the observer thinks our withdrawal from dunkirk was a national catastrophe and a historical error? Who writes this ahistorical drivel?

Ah Dunkirk, wait til that's realised this year. It'll make Braveheart look amateurish in Nationalism/Patriotism.

[Boris]

And the observer believes that the brussels bureaucracy has preserved peace in (some of) europe for 60 years and somehow Brexit will throw that away. It is Nato that has been responsible for the "peace" and the uk was not even a member of the eu when that peace was most threatened during the height of the cold warfor example during the berlin airlift in the 60's.

Berlin airlift was 1948, iirc. You may be getting mixed up with the Berlin Wall?

[Seymour M Hersh]

Aye,and with Scotland in it,England will crumble in a few years time,they've always needed us to pull them out of a hole,they need to realise they can't keep holding on like a wee baby,it's time they grew up,they're a noose around our necks.

 

Away back to the befuddled board you.

[Sidsnot]

What on Earth do you base that view on?

The fact that for centuries England has had a free reign to do whatever they so wish,'want anything,no problem cos Scotland will have it.'

Just keep taking the rich pickings,cream of the crop,Scotland won't mind.

Time is up,build your own railway tracks,fix your own London sewerage,just don't expect Scotland to pay for it any more.

[Sidsnot]

I'm pretty sure we'll both do just fine independently, it's the Union that's the problem.

Damned right it is aussieh.

[SwindonJambo]

The fact that for centuries England has had a free reign to do whatever they so wish,'want anything,no problem cos Scotland will have it.'

Just keep taking the rich pickings,cream of the crop,Scotland won't mind.

Time is up,build your own railway tracks,fix your own London sewerage,just don't expect Scotland to pay for it any more.

You'r all over the place! Pure fantasy-fiction! What's your evidence? There have been times in the past when a high oil price has made Scotland a net contributor but not so now, nor for a long time. Scotland's Economic growth has lagged the wider UK's many years now.

[aussieh]

You'r all over the place! Pure fantasy-fiction! What's your evidence? There have been times in the past when a high oil price has made Scotland a net contributor but not so now, nor for a long time. Scotland's Economic growth has lagged the wider UK's many years now.

Have you seen the numbers(?), coming from Scotland since 1979. The Scotland subsidy myth , interesting reading. Wm have received ?27 billion(actual figure closer to ?31b) more from Scotland than it has given back.

 

 

 

 

Boom!!!!!!!

[Francis Albert]

Berlin airlift was 1948, iirc. You may be getting mixed up with the Berlin Wall?

quite right. Nevertheless nato and the eu between them helped preserved peace in europe for two decades before the uk joined the eu. The idea that brexit threatens us with a new european war or ww3 is scaremongering. Eu and nato expansion up to the borders of russia however...

...

[Sidsnot]

You'r all over the place! Pure fantasy-fiction! What's your evidence? There have been times in the past when a high oil price has made Scotland a net contributor but not so now, nor for a long time. Scotland's Economic growth has lagged the wider UK's many years now.

Net contributer,eh?

Not much good when we keep subsidising Westminster is it,why don't you just admit for once that England should be thankful for Scotland constantly bailing them out?

[aussieh]

[The Don]

SNP embarrassing themselves at Westminster again.

 

Letter delivered Article 50 triggered we're on our way out of the self serving EU.

 

Free to make our own laws, our own trade deals and control our own borders.

 

Bye bye EU

 

 

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[IMac]

SNP embarrassing themselves at Westminster again.

 

Letter delivered Article 50 triggered we're on our way out of the self serving EU.

 

Free to make our own laws, our own trade deals and control our own borders.

 

Bye bye EU

 

 

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cool story.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

An historic day. The UK finally stops its sneaky journey towards a federal Europe. Any wonder the Europhiles are devastated as they never could win an argument for that proposal.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Net contributer,eh?

Not much good when we keep subsidising Westminster is it,why don't you just admit for once that England should be thankful for Scotland constantly bailing them out?

Like the bank bailout that wasn't concentrated on The Mound and Gogarburn?

[Don Dan]

Spain are keen on retaining healthcare and freedom of movement.

 

 

 

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[Boris]

Spain are keen on retaining healthcare and freedom of movement.

 

 

 

 

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So what happened to controlling our borders then?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Which border do we not currently control?

I think the inference is who crosses that border to work.

[Boris]

Which border do we not currently control?

 

All of them!  It's a free for all down to that freedom of movement for EU citizens thing.  You know, the one Sapin is keen to get going again post brexit for the UK and EU.

[Don Dan]

So what happened to controlling our borders then?

Work permits and visas still allow freedom of movement but offer control at the same time.

12 month visas mean you can come and go as you want. Holidays, visiting friends, staying in your apartment on use your timeshare.

You want to work, get a guaranteed job offer and a work permit.

You want to claim benefits, prove you have worked for a set period of time. Take out insurance to cover illness ect (Which is what we do already).

 

 

 

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[jambo lodge]

All of them!  It's a free for all down to that freedom of movement for EU citizens thing.  You know, the one Sapin is keen to get going again post brexit for the UK and EU.

 

Last time I looked we had passport checks at airports etc?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Accepted, but you agree that we currently have full control over our borders and who crosses them, anyone permitted entry we have agreed to allow in. It is not like someone arrives from Bangladesh and then the EU say we must take him/her or refuse him/her entry

Correct.

[pablo]

On the bright side, bananas of all shapes and sizes!

[Boris]

Last time I looked we had passport checks at airports etc?

 

So what was all the "taking back control" chat about during the brexit referendum?

[aussieh]

SNP embarrassing themselves at Westminster again.

 

Letter delivered Article 50 triggered we're on our way out of the self serving EU.

 

Free to make our own laws, our own trade deals and control our own borders.

 

Bye bye EU

 

 

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Hypocrisy of the highest order.

[Boris]

On the bright side, bananas of all shapes and sizes!

 

[The Don]

Which border do we not currently control?

As an EU member we have no control over EU migrants. Now EU nationals that have lived and worked within the EU all their days not a problem. Where the problems have arose and why people are so against freedom of movement is the open door policy that Germany introduced. We have non EU migrants arriving in Italy, Greece, Spain by sea and through Turkey. As soon as they arrive the first place the vast majority head for is Britain, ask yourself why here ? Why not live and work in sunny Spain, or Italy there are many beautiful countries in the EU. Now once processed they can move freely. What should have been brought in as EU law is the country you arrive in is the country you stay in.

 

With control of our borders we do not have to accept unlimited numbers from anywhere and we can do our own vetting and implement our own policies in dealing with migrants.

 

As far as Spain wanting freedom of movement the British government has already said there will be no concessions on allowing unlimited freedom of movement even if it means no access to single market. Why Spain could be implying is freedom of movement between Spanish and U.K. Citizens only.

 

 

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[pablo]

 

Immigrants with straight bananas

[Boris]

 

Immigrants with straight bananas

 

Sounds like a band name.

[Sraman]

As an EU member we have no control over EU migrants. Now EU nationals that have lived and worked within the EU all their days not a problem. Where the problems have arose and why people are so against freedom of movement is the open door policy that Germany introduced. We have non EU migrants arriving in Italy, Greece, Spain by sea and through Turkey. As soon as they arrive the first place the vast majority head for is Britain, ask yourself why here ? Why not live and work in sunny Spain, or Italy there are many beautiful countries in the EU. Now once processed they can move freely. What should have been brought in as EU law is the country you arrive in is the country you stay in.

 

With control of our borders we do not have to accept unlimited numbers from anywhere and we can do our own vetting and implement our own policies in dealing with migrants.

 

As far as Spain wanting freedom of movement the British government has already said there will be no concessions on allowing unlimited freedom of movement even if it means no access to single market. Why Spain could be implying is freedom of movement between Spanish and U.K. Citizens only.

 

 

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Yet all the countries who are "queuing up" for a free trade deal with the post brexit UK have free movement of people as their main condition to said free trade deals. Of course there won't be enough room for them all as the vast majority of non EU migrants entering Europe are already here.

[Sidsnot]

Nice one Joe.

 

https://twitter.com/joe_co_uk/status/847025797554614273

[The Don]

I hope this wasn't part of your reason for voting leave in the EU Referendum (assuming you did), as it is not in anyway an accurate description of how the UK's borders are controlled.

 

The only open border we have is with The Republic of Ireland every other border is controlled, so there is no freedom of movement, you need to be an EU citizen or have appropriate documentation to enter the UK. If you are a non-EU national coming from any country, EU or not, you need the correct paper work to get in. So if you are this person from Bangladesh even if you have a Visa for Germany you can't get free access to the UK without a Visa for here.

I know how the border controls work, apologies if my post didn't come over the way intended.

 

At present there is no limit or control over EU nationals moving between member states. Now of course an EU national has to have proper documentation to show they are an EU national. In e out of the EU we can then control the amount we allow into the U.K.

 

As I tried explaining another huge problem is many non EU migrants arriving in the EU are being granted EU citizenship meaning they then have that same freedom of movement, many of these migrants are not vetted properly and it is exactly how ISIS etc are getting into EU countries. ISIS themselves have even admitted it's the easiest way for them to move around and gain access to Europe for years they have exploited these systems.

 

And I'm answer to your first sentence, no it was not the only reason for wanting to leave the EU. I believe outside the EU and it's stupid hindering laws etc we can prosper countries are already queuing up for free trade deals with the U.K. And if anyone genuinely thinks there will not be some kind of trade deal with the EU after Brexit then they are either incredible stupid or deluded and wishful thinking for alternative reasons. The EU needs the U.K. As much as we need many countries in the EU. German car manufacturers have huge clout and say so in Germany there is no way BMW, Mercedes, Audi VW etc will walk away from nearly 1,000,000 UK car sales a year.

 

We have French and German elections coming up businesses will put pressure on leaders that's guaranteed. There will be some sort of trade deal I think there may be some kind of diluted free trade deal i.e. Only certain sectors will be allowed to benefit from free trade others may be subject to reduced tariffs.

 

All my opinion of course, I just can't see the EU cutting their noses off to spite their faces and lose ?Billions of trade.

 

 

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[Alwayssunnyingorgie]

As an EU member we have no control over EU migrants. Now EU nationals that have lived and worked within the EU all their days not a problem. Where the problems have arose and why people are so against freedom of movement is the open door policy that Germany introduced. We have non EU migrants arriving in Italy, Greece, Spain by sea and through Turkey. As soon as they arrive the first place the vast majority head for is Britain, ask yourself why here ? Why not live and work in sunny Spain, or Italy there are many beautiful countries in the EU. Now once processed they can move freely. What should have been brought in as EU law is the country you arrive in is the country you stay in.

 

With control of our borders we do not have to accept unlimited numbers from anywhere and we can do our own vetting and implement our own policies in dealing with migrants.

 

As far as Spain wanting freedom of movement the British government has already said there will be no concessions on allowing unlimited freedom of movement even if it means no access to single market. Why Spain could be implying is freedom of movement between Spanish and U.K. Citizens only.

 

 

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Sorry but you talk shit, The vast majority of immigrants don't head for the UK at all.

[Boris]

I know how the border controls work, apologies if my post didn't come over the way intended.

 

At present there is no limit or control over EU nationals moving between member states. Now of course an EU national has to have proper documentation to show they are an EU national. In e out of the EU we can then control the amount we allow into the U.K.

 

As I tried explaining another huge problem is many non EU migrants arriving in the EU are being granted EU citizenship meaning they then have that same freedom of movement, many of these migrants are not vetted properly and it is exactly how ISIS etc are getting into EU countries. ISIS themselves have even admitted it's the easiest way for them to move around and gain access to Europe for years they have exploited these systems.

 

And I'm answer to your first sentence, no it was not the only reason for wanting to leave the EU. I believe outside the EU and it's stupid hindering laws etc we can prosper countries are already queuing up for free trade deals with the U.K. And if anyone genuinely thinks there will not be some kind of trade deal with the EU after Brexit then they are either incredible stupid or deluded and wishful thinking for alternative reasons. The EU needs the U.K. As much as we need many countries in the EU. German car manufacturers have huge clout and say so in Germany there is no way BMW, Mercedes, Audi VW etc will walk away from nearly 1,000,000 UK car sales a year.

 

We have French and German elections coming up businesses will put pressure on leaders that's guaranteed. There will be some sort of trade deal I think there may be some kind of diluted free trade deal i.e. Only certain sectors will be allowed to benefit from free trade others may be subject to reduced tariffs.

 

All my opinion of course, I just can't see the EU cutting their noses off to spite their faces and lose ?Billions of trade.

 

 

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BMW already drawing up plans to move production of next gen minis out of UK.

 

http://fortune.com/2017/02/28/bmw-move-mini-germany-brexit/

[Boris]

I know how the border controls work, apologies if my post didn't come over the way intended.

 

At present there is no limit or control over EU nationals moving between member states. Now of course an EU national has to have proper documentation to show they are an EU national. In e out of the EU we can then control the amount we allow into the U.K.

 

As I tried explaining another huge problem is many non EU migrants arriving in the EU are being granted EU citizenship meaning they then have that same freedom of movement, many of these migrants are not vetted properly and it is exactly how ISIS etc are getting into EU countries. ISIS themselves have even admitted it's the easiest way for them to move around and gain access to Europe for years they have exploited these systems.

 

And I'm answer to your first sentence, no it was not the only reason for wanting to leave the EU. I believe outside the EU and it's stupid hindering laws etc we can prosper countries are already queuing up for free trade deals with the U.K. And if anyone genuinely thinks there will not be some kind of trade deal with the EU after Brexit then they are either incredible stupid or deluded and wishful thinking for alternative reasons. The EU needs the U.K. As much as we need many countries in the EU. German car manufacturers have huge clout and say so in Germany there is no way BMW, Mercedes, Audi VW etc will walk away from nearly 1,000,000 UK car sales a year.

 

We have French and German elections coming up businesses will put pressure on leaders that's guaranteed. There will be some sort of trade deal I think there may be some kind of diluted free trade deal i.e. Only certain sectors will be allowed to benefit from free trade others may be subject to reduced tariffs.

 

All my opinion of course, I just can't see the EU cutting their noses off to spite their faces and lose ?Billions of trade.

 

 

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So no free movement of EU nationals then?  Bye bye single market.

[Sidsnot]

Sorry but you talk shit, The vast majority of immigrants don't head for the UK at all.

Seems like he's forgotten where the Gaels went to when the Highland Clearances happened.....mainly America and Australasia.

[The Don]

Is it that simple to get citizenship in other EU countries? I wouldn't know.

 

It would seem strange to me that ISIS are recruiting people from the West to go and fight in the middle east only to send foreign nationals to the west to commit terror act, why not just get the locals to do it.

I have no inside knowledge of the workings of international terrorists or their mindsets except that they are extremist nut jobs. ISIS not long ago (Months) said it was how they travel and gain entry to Europe. They could of course have been trolling the EU but I doubt it.

 

On your point about local homegrown terrorists. Many travel to Syria, Iraq etc to be trained and even more radicalized many are known to U.K. And EU anti terror organizations they then come back to cOmit their acts of terror or to radicalize others and probably engage in other activities to further their cause. Most of them come back without being detected only the other day the U.K. Security services said they estimate some 400+ possible terrorists that have been over to fight with IS are now back in the country and under the radar. These people didn't just simply jump on a plane and walk straight back in.

 

 

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[The Don]

So no free movement of EU nationals then? Bye bye single market.

Possibly. TM has already said she will NOT give in to freedom of movement even it means no single market.

 

Like I said I think there will be some kind of compromise on both sides or workaround that will still allow some kind of access to the SM without giving in to unlimited FoM

 

 

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[The Don]

We have gone off at a slight tangent here, but I fail to see how leaving the EU improves our ability to prevent people from entering the country illegally.

Fair enough. It's one of the many reasons people voted for Brexit. Some voted for that reason alone. Having complete control over immigration surely improves things? Being able to determine how many people can enter the country surely makes it easier for agencies to cope with the numbers so carry out proper Checks etc. it's easier and more effective processing 20,000 people a year instead of 200,000+ a year.

 

 

 

 

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[aussieh]

Ukip The guard dogs of brexit. Racists just like the rest of the leave mob.

[indianajones]

So the spineless, horrible old **** has triggered it with zero plans in place.

 

Nice. 

[Francis Albert]

So the spineless, horrible old **** has triggered it with zero plans in place.

 

Nice.

 

nice

[Francis Albert]

Ukip The guard dogs of brexit. Racists just like the rest of the leave mob.

52% of the country are racist? No wonder they voted against the liberal consensus. Using liberal in the loosest possible sense

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Ukip The guard dogs of brexit. Racists just like the rest of the leave mob.

 

So the 30% of YES voters who voted to leave are racists?   Is that what your saying?

 

[aussieh]

Yes and no

[Francis Albert]

Yes and no

difficult to argue with that!