The 2015 General Election Megathread

[TheMaganator]

poor Alex Massie, the big bad SNP are cheeturs, it's no fair.   As per the stats, 3/4 of the population are quite happy with the way the SNP are governing Scotland so not a surprise that the SNP are getting over 60% in the polls.  God I love this thread now; all the britnats fuming over the fact that the SNP are popular

Another one who doesn't understand the word 'nationalist'.

[JamboX2]

The Scottish Independence Party story is a weird fake: looking at the Scotsman story, for example, there is no party, no names given, no details, nothing that a vaguely-professional journalist would require to actually write a story saying that the thing exists.

 

Whoever did the faking was, I suspect, making a rather feeble attempt to deflect attention from yesterday's striking TNS poll, that gives the SNP 62% Labour 20% Conservatives 12%.

 

But the fine detail of that poll is well worth a second look: see http://www.tns-bmrb.co.uk/home

 

Check out the '18-24 years old, certain to vote' outcome, for example: SNP 86%, Lab 5%, Tories 5%.

A buzzfeed article here earlier named the leader. So I'm not sure if fake. Perhaps a silly season article. But not a fake. Such arguments sound as paranoid as the Labour for Independence stuff (which has more proof of being an SNP plant than this IMO). But that's if we're actively looking for false flags and fake parties! I think both to a degree were genuine. Although whatever happened to Alan Grogan!?!?

 

On poll numbers:

 

1. Don't get too cocky, see labour this year and reliance on good polls.

2. Labour are leaderless at present. Let's see who wins in both the Scottish and UK events and let's see what impact that has going into 2016 (albeit it'll be the difference between majority and minority government for the SNP).

3 the Tories, Liberals and Greens get poll boosts at election time when they get more media focus. So await that too.

4. The Labour Party. The Tory party and the Liberals are all to reopen their candidacy ballots on the list. To me, this means that they intend to field better candidates than they have, perhaps some bigger names. If that's the case then who is facing off against who will be key in local races. Afterall, looking at the quality of the SNP back benches, the cream of their politicians are now at Westminster. And I include some government ministers in that!

[JamboX2]

this just confirms the fact that the people who don't get their news from the state media machine the BBC or from the unionist papers are much more likely to vote for the SNP and for Independence.

Surely from a point of view of getting an impartial world view you should read a broad range of news articles? Rather than just those that cater for your prejudice.

[reaths17]

The Scottish Independence Party story is a weird fake: looking at the Scotsman story, for example, there is no party, no names given, no details, nothing that a vaguely-professional journalist would require to actually write a story saying that the thing exists.

 

Whoever did the faking was, I suspect, making a rather feeble attempt to deflect attention from yesterday's striking TNS poll, that gives the SNP 62% Labour 20% Conservatives 12%.

 

But the fine detail of that poll is well worth a second look: see http://www.tns-bmrb.co.uk/home

 

Check out the '18-24 years old, certain to vote' outcome, for example: SNP 86%, Lab 5%, Tories 5%. 

that poll emphasises just what a sheit service we get politically, despite a majority voting for them.

 

only a 3rd of voters think, what they do is any good, so we wouldn't be any worse without them, for the rest of the voters. not a very endearing statistic, for the SNP, the best of a bad bunch but still pish

[Stuart Lyon]

Where do the SNP supporters get their impartial news from?

[Boris]

There are names in the link I posted previously. 

 

Another good piece from Massie on the SNP enjoying power without responsibility. http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/alex-massie/2015/08/nicola-sturgeons-bandwagon-rolls-on-a-new-poll-puts-the-snp-on-62/ The poll shows another landslide for the SNP despite a large portion of their support thinking that they are not doing a good job. This will be deflected by saying that the other parties are shite - however, is voting for the SNP despite their poor record in government not one of the main criticisms of labour of old?

 

If you are voting for a party that you think is doing a bad job on health, education, the economy and crime then you should really be having a look in the mirror.  

 

 

There are names in the link I posted previously. 

 

Another good piece from Massie on the SNP enjoying power without responsibility. http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/alex-massie/2015/08/nicola-sturgeons-bandwagon-rolls-on-a-new-poll-puts-the-snp-on-62/ The poll shows another landslide for the SNP despite a large portion of their support thinking that they are not doing a good job. This will be deflected by saying that the other parties are shite - however, is voting for the SNP despite their poor record in government not one of the main criticisms of labour of old?

 

If you are voting for a party that you think is doing a bad job on health, education, the economy and crime then you should really be having a look in the mirror.  

 

A bit patronising from Massie, but I've come to expect that from him.

 

Interestingly, for all that he says the SNP is doing a bad job, in the figures he quoted only on crime and justice were there more thing the govt was doing a bad job than a good job.  In the other examples those thinking a good job was being done was greater than those thinking a bad job was being done.  And those figures were for all voters not just SNP.  So in some cases, non SNP voters must be saying that they think the SNP are doing ok?

 

So, I'm not really sure of his point.

[HaymarketJambo]

There are names in the link I posted previously. 

 

Another good piece from Massie on the SNP enjoying power without responsibility. http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/alex-massie/2015/08/nicola-sturgeons-bandwagon-rolls-on-a-new-poll-puts-the-snp-on-62/ The poll shows another landslide for the SNP despite a large portion of their support thinking that they are not doing a good job. This will be deflected by saying that the other parties are shite - however, is voting for the SNP despite their poor record in government not one of the main criticisms of labour of old?

 

If you are voting for a party that you think is doing a bad job on health, education, the economy and crime then you should really be having a look in the mirror.  

Ok, what party in Scotland is there to vote for that could do any better than the SNP?   

[XB52]

A bit patronising from Massie, but I've come to expect that from him.

 

Interestingly, for all that he says the SNP is doing a bad job, in the figures he quoted only on crime and justice were there more thing the govt was doing a bad job than a good job.  In the other examples those thinking a good job was being done was greater than those thinking a bad job was being done.  And those figures were for all voters not just SNP.  So in some cases, non SNP voters must be saying that they think the SNP are doing ok?

 

So, I'm not really sure of his point.

he doesn't have one, as usual

[XB52]

Surely from a point of view of getting an impartial world view you should read a broad range of news articles? Rather than just those that cater for your prejudice.

of course, and that is why more and more young people are swtiching away from the unionist parties, while those that get spoon fed by the BBC are not. I view news from the unionist press in the same way I view Wings; I read it then try and find the truth behind the lurid headlines

[aussieh]

Surely from a point of view of getting an impartial world view you should read a broad range of news articles? Rather than just those that cater for your prejudice.

Thats what he said.

[Hasselhoff]

People may vote for SNP in elections because there is no other better party but ask them if they want independence and I'm sure it would be a result similar to last time round. 

 

The First Past the Post system is the main reason SNP are in the position they are in. A tiny bit less than 50% of the votes chose them compared to other parties. The majority of voters didn't want the SNP. 

 

Labour has pretty much lost all the support they had to the SNP now so should team up with the Scottish Tories and Lib Dems to make a new party in Scotland - The "We Are Scotland - Scottish Unionist Party" (WASSUP) Would be a compromise of all the ideologies of the founding parties and would be in opposition to the SNP for now. When it comes to elections, WASSUP will get in power since there isn't the dilution of votes that currently occurs with non-SNP parties

[jambo1185]

So we end up like NI on effectively sectarian based politics with unionists agreeing to field alliance candidates in close areas?

 

Its a no from me.

[coconut doug]

People may vote for SNP in elections because there is no other better party but ask them if they want independence and I'm sure it would be a result similar to last time round. 

 

The First Past the Post system is the main reason SNP are in the position they are in. A tiny bit less than 50% of the votes chose them compared to other parties. The majority of voters didn't want the SNP. 

 

Labour has pretty much lost all the support they had to the SNP now so should team up with the Scottish Tories and Lib Dems to make a new party in Scotland - The "We Are Scotland - Scottish Unionist Party" (WASSUP) Would be a compromise of all the ideologies of the founding parties and would be in opposition to the SNP for now. When it comes to elections, WASSUP will get in power since there isn't the dilution of votes that currently occurs with non-SNP parties

Last election and current polls - Lab+Lib+Tory is still less than the SNP.  With 86% support amongst 18-24 year olds it's possible the Union only has one more election.

[Hasselhoff]

Last election and current polls - Lab+Lib+Tory is still less than the SNP.  With 86% support amongst 18-24 year olds it's possible the Union only has one more election.

 

In the election, Sturgeon said a vote for SNP wasn't a vote for independence.

 

What would the SNP do if people voted them in elections but consistently voted no to indy? Would the SNP want to remain down in WM with their hands tied like they say?

[jambos are go!]

Last election and current polls - Lab+Lib+Tory is still less than the SNP.  With 86% support amongst 18-24 year olds it's possible the Union only has one more election.

Less than a year ago most of that demographic voted NO.

[TheMaganator]

Ok, what party in Scotland is there to vote for that could do any better than the SNP?   

The Tories. 

[TheMaganator]

Where do the SNP supporters get their impartial news from?

They get their impartial news from the National and Wings Over Scotland. For impartial news on the economy they go to Business for Scotland. 

 

Then they rehash it en masse all over the internet. 

[TheMaganator]

Last election and current polls - Lab+Lib+Tory is still less than the SNP.  With 86% support amongst 18-24 year olds it's possible the Union only has one more election.

How does that work? All of those 18-24 year olds will have voted in the referendum. And as they grow up many will grow out of nationalism. 

[Thunderstruck]

How does that work? All of those 18-24 year olds will have voted in the referendum. And as they grow up many will grow out of nationalism.

According to the ElectoralmCommission, those aged 18-24 are a group that is under-represented in Electoral Rolls and in engagement with the ballot.

 

There is a lot of mobility within that "cohort" and many, with hormones rampaging through their systems, will have other things higher up in the agenda.

[HaymarketJambo]

The Tories. 

The Tories

You're having a laugh are you? A horrible party that destroyed our mines, steal mills our car plant at Linwood, and have given us the food bank.   

 

The Tories will never get into power in Scotland, you will just have to up with Wee Nicola.             

[TheMaganator]

According to the ElectoralmCommission, those aged 18-24 are a group that is under-represented in Electoral Rolls and in engagement with the ballot.

 

There is a lot of mobility within that "cohort" and many, with hormones rampaging through their systems, will have other things higher up in the agenda.

Indeed - but you have to register to be contacted by most of these polling companies and it is a safe assumption that if you sign up for political polling you will be engaged. (Assuming that's how the latest poll was done, some are just cold calls and stopping randoms on the street). I also haven't seen all of the questions but was it not commissioned by the SNP? That won't make a huge difference but they have form (as do all parties tbf) for asking leading and suggestive questions in polls.

[TheMaganator]

The Tories

You're having a laugh are you? A horrible party that destroyed our mines, steal mills our car plant at Linwood, and have given us the food bank.   

 

The Tories will never get into power in Scotland, you will just have to up with Wee Nicola.             

Food banks have been around for ages. They are rife in Scotland which has been under SNP control for 8 years. It's no the SNP's fault though, of course. They have the power and money to do something about them but they choose not to. They would rather they remained in place so that they can be weaponised as a tool for political point-scoring. 

 

You are right about them not getting into power up here though - the majority, like you, have been raised on a diet of anti-Tory rhetoric and are still viewing the world through 1970/80s tinted spectacles. 

[Boris]

Food banks have been around for ages. They are rife in Scotland which has been under SNP control for 8 years. It's no the SNP's fault though, of course. They have the power and money to do something about them but they choose not to. They would rather they remained in place so that they can be weaponised as a tool for political point-scoring. 

 

You are right about them not getting into power up here though - the majority, like you, have been raised on a diet of anti-Tory rhetoric and are still viewing the world through 1970/80s tinted spectacles. 

 

Or perhaps are not that into policies that start off as jokes, but very quickly become reality?

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/11/ministers-halt-benefits-young-workers-migrant-pledge-eu

 

It was ?12bn worth of cuts before the election that the Tories wouldn't tell us what they were going to cut.  Now that has risen to ?15bn of cuts.  Throw in Gorgeous George's ?1bn loss on RBS and you wonder why folk don't go for them up here?

[HaymarketJambo]

Food banks have been around for ages. They are rife in Scotland which has been under SNP control for 8 years. It's no the SNP's fault though, of course. They have the power and money to do something about them but they choose not to. They would rather they remained in place so that they can be weaponised as a tool for political point-scoring. 

 

You are right about them not getting into power up here though - the majority, like you, have been raised on a diet of anti-Tory rhetoric and are still viewing the world through 1970/80s tinted spectacles. 

There is more foods banks under the Tories than at any other time.

 

As for 8 years under SNP rule they must have done something right they got 56 MPs to the Tories lucky 1 at Westminster in May.

 

And as been raised on a anti-Tory rhetoric, I was one Maggie's 3 Million struggling after to get a job because of the Tories polices in the 1980's also I had family in the mines,  so just forgive me for not liking the Tories.                

[TheMaganator]

There is more foods banks under the Tories than at any other time.

 

As for 8 years under SNP rule they must have done something right they got 56 MPs to the Tories lucky 1 at Westminster in May.

 

And as been raised on a anti-Tory rhetoric, I was one Maggie's 3 Million struggling after to get a job because of the Tories polices in the 1980's also I had family in the mines,  so just forgive me for not liking the Tories.                

Yes - but they have done nothing about foodbanks and have simply used them as a weapon. All they do is say that they 'stand up for Scotland' and that is usually enough to convince people to vote for them. 

 

I am sorry you had a hard time of it but that was two decades ago - assess what they are now. 

[Cairneyhill Jambo]

Food banks have been around for ages. They are rife in Scotland which has been under SNP control for 8 years. It's no the SNP's fault though, of course. They have the power and money to do something about them but they choose not to. They would rather they remained in place so that they can be weaponised as a tool for political point-scoring. 

 

You are right about them not getting into power up here though - the majority, like you, have been raised on a diet of anti-Tory rhetoric and are still viewing the world through 1970/80s tinted spectacles. 

 

People need foodbanks because their benefits are being cut.  The last time I looked, benefits was a reserved matter and got nowt to do with the SNP Government at Holyrood.

 

And do you really expect people to forgive what the Tories did to Scotland?

 

It is nothing to do with viewing the world through 70/80's tinted spectacles.  What the Tories did back then is still being felt today.  Just drive through former mining villages in Scotland and you can see their legacy.

[aussieh]

People may vote for SNP in elections because there is no other better party but ask them if they want independence and I'm sure it would be a result similar to last time round.

 

The First Past the Post system is the main reason SNP are in the position they are in. A tiny bit less than 50% of the votes chose them compared to other parties. The majority of voters didn't want the SNP.

 

Labour has pretty much lost all the support they had to the SNP now so should team up with the Scottish Tories and Lib Dems to make a new party in Scotland - The "We Are Scotland - Scottish Unionist Party" (WASSUP) Would be a compromise of all the ideologies of the founding parties and would be in opposition to the SNP for now. When it comes to elections, WASSUP will get in power since there isn't the dilution of votes that currently occurs with non-SNP parties

The WASHEDUP party.

[aussieh]

Yes - but they have done nothing about foodbanks and have simply used them as a weapon. All they do is say that they 'stand up for Scotland' and that is usually enough to convince people to vote for them.

 

I am sorry you had a hard time of it but that was two decades ago - assess what they are now.

The tories are, and always will be.

[JamboX2]

Ok, what party in Scotland is there to vote for that could do any better than the SNP?

No one can answer that for you. That is a subjective choice to be made on what policies the opposition parties offer in the coming election. That of course will need to wait until manifestos are released.

 

If you want a party committed to lower taxes then vote Tory. Want higher public spending on higher taxes then Labour. Want a middle ground compromise vote SNP. That will be your choice come May. The Greens etc will of course offer their positions as well. But realistically if the SNP are in minority the main two opposition parties will hold the balance of power.

[Boris]

But realistically if the SNP are in minority the main two opposition parties will hold the balance of power.

 

Not necessarily.  The Greens may be the fourth largest party but added to the SNP could form a working coalition.

 

All maybes, I grant you!

[JamboX2]

Or perhaps are not that into policies that start off as jokes, but very quickly become reality?

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/11/ministers-halt-benefits-young-workers-migrant-pledge-eu

 

It was ?12bn worth of cuts before the election that the Tories wouldn't tell us what they were going to cut. Now that has risen to ?15bn of cuts. Throw in Gorgeous George's ?1bn loss on RBS and you wonder why folk don't go for them up here?

Be careful on that one. Since 1997 senior Holyrood Tories have been pushing for greater devolution of tax powers to Scotland. Why? Because they see a group of voters who will vote for them again if they can offer policies of less tax and a smaller state as a result.

 

Don't forget as well that the Scottish Tory party is a party of Holyrood. It's their greatest concentration of national politicians. Their leadership has set policy with no interference and have always returned a respectable 16-19 MSPs at each election. They're calculation is, and Mundell is articulating it well, deliver a chunk of tax powers to the Parliament and offer a new centre-right offer to Scots - less tax, a redesigned state based on the individual and not being run from ministers desks at Holyrood. That voting base has for a long time voted SNP. The soft no, centre right vote in the Borders, Perthshire and central Scotland and in Edinburgh in places like Pentlands etc.

 

From what I've read they see next year as their best chance to break the 20 MSPs mark and do very well. Davidson is punchy and likeable and she's got a good top team at present. They've also lined up a few QCs and other names to stand so I've been told. People who will bring weight to them at Holyrood.

 

If the SNP chase the left vote, it opens the right up to the Tories. Sturgeon, will likely adhere to her lefty approach at the election and chase the Labour Party into the low 20s MSP wise. Davidson in that position should be bold and steal the SNP's middle class clothes and centrist voters by offering a cheeky tax reduction.

 

It's effectively what the SNP have been doing with that demographic since 2007 with their council tax freeze!

 

It'll damage Labour further but it'd benefit the Tories. I reckon some on here may be a bit surprised when a Tory party with the ability to vary people's tax rates in Scotland start to pick up more voters.

[aussieh]

No one can answer that for you. That is a subjective choice to be made on what policies the opposition parties offer in the coming election. That of course will need to wait until manifestos are released.

 

If you want a party committed to lower taxes then vote Tory. Want higher public spending on higher taxes then Labour. Want a middle ground compromise vote SNP. That will be your choice come May. The Greens etc will of course offer their positions as well. But realistically if the SNP are in minority the main two opposition parties will hold the balance of power.

SNP, in a minority.

Whos the opposition, WASSUP.

please stop.

[JamboX2]

Not necessarily. The Greens may be the fourth largest party but added to the SNP could form a working coalition.

 

All maybes, I grant you!

Unlikely. Harvie will adopt the approach of Salmond in May by saying he won't have a coalition but would offer support when needed, but the terms would be on Harvie's terms not the SNP's. Harvie won't sanction fracking but I think a few SNP ministers will once the moratorium ends.

 

I really think if the opposition parties adopt some staunch and principled positions on the left and right the SNP could feel a squeeze next year and polls narrow. It's harder for Labour as Sturgeon's SNP is seeking and is squatting on its traditional centre left vote, but I think they're cause could be improved by a Corbyn win and could attract some wayward lefties back to labour. After all a Scottish Labour demanding scotrail and Calman be nationalised and arguing for more radical redistribution through coming tax and welfare powers could be more powerful to some who've left than the centrism of the SNP who are trying to keep right wing farmers in a voting bloc with Clydeside socialists.

[JamboX2]

SNP, in a minority.

Whos the opposition, WASSUP.

please stop.

I think the SNP could face a squeezed vote in May. It's not beyond the realms of possibility. Why are they guaranteed a majority? They're riding high right now. But once the debate turns onto what they'll do with the new powers of the Scotland act which will be in place by the second year of the parliament then they usually struggle to answer questions.

[aussieh]

I think the SNP could face a squeezed vote in May. It's not beyond the realms of possibility. Why are they guaranteed a majority? They're riding high right now. But once the debate turns onto what they'll do with the new powers of the Scotland act which will be in place by the second year of the parliament then they usually struggle to answer questions.

Theyll do exactly what the rest do, tell us what we want to hear.

[HaymarketJambo]

No one can answer that for you. That is a subjective choice to be made on what policies the opposition parties offer in the coming election. That of course will need to wait until manifestos are released.

 

If you want a party committed to lower taxes then vote Tory. Want higher public spending on higher taxes then Labour. Want a middle ground compromise vote SNP. That will be your choice come May. The Greens etc will of course offer their positions as well. But realistically if the SNP are in minority the main two opposition parties will hold the balance of power.

Cheers, I'll stick with SNP and hope it's another SNP landslide, I don't agree much with the Green Party.  

[coconut doug]

Less than a year ago most of that demographic voted NO.

In 5 years many of that demographic will be dead.

[Jarhead]

The Tories

You're having a laugh are you? A horrible party that destroyed our mines, steal mills our car plant at Linwood, and have given us the food bank.   

 

The Tories will never get into power in Scotland, you will just have to up with Wee Nicola.

 

I'm neither here nor there regarding the tories but. .....

You say you had family that worked in mining. So did I but you'll forgive me for not sharing your rosy view of a dirty, dangerous back breaking job that put thousands of working class men into an early grave. Has any government since thatcher made an effort to reintroduce coal mining? Nope, because coal doesn't fit into the green agenda.

Labour may still play the mining grievance card but it's telling that the snp hardly ever mention it.

The closure of ravenscraig was a scandal at the time but the rise of China and India would have eventually brought it's closure anyway.

Linwood? Really?

 

Yip, the tories have an element of responsibility to bare for food banks but don't kid yourself that labour and snp aren't complicit in this as well for their own political ends.

[GBJambo]

In 5 years many of that demographic will be dead.

Which is what you and your ilk hope for

Edited August 11, 2015 by GBJambo

[Hasselhoff]

As for foodbanks, would you prefer they didn't exist? No matter how much money you throw at some people on benefits, they'll fritter the lot and still be short of money to buy proper food during the month. Is it not a good thing that these people have somewhere to go to get essentials?

 

It's like saying that charities are a bad thing as the world shouldn't have any poverty or child abuse in the first place. Unfortunately these things do exist and so we need charities to help them. Foodbanks are a charity that helps people in dire circumstances and are a good thing in my opinion (not a good thing that people are so poor they have to use them, but good these people have somewhere to go) 

[JamboX2]

In 5 years many of that demographic will be dead.

No he's talking about the 18-25 generation who voted no by a majority. I was part of that demographic.

 

On your point though, let's hope that when the history books are written that it's not said we were glad our grannies died so we could end the union...

 

 

...then again that generation remember the post war Britain forged in war and were probably as driven by that as the were the lack of clarity over pensions.

[JamboX2]

Cheers, I'll stick with SNP and hope it's another SNP landslide, I don't agree much with the Green Party.

Respect your democratic choice. Go forth and vote.

[jambos are go!]

In 5 years many of that demographic will be dead.

So you think most 18 to 24 year olds in Scotland will be dead in 5 years. The NHS under the SNP is in an even more dire state than I thought!!.

[Boris]

Be careful on that one. Since 1997 senior Holyrood Tories have been pushing for greater devolution of tax powers to Scotland. Why? Because they see a group of voters who will vote for them again if they can offer policies of less tax and a smaller state as a result.

 

Don't forget as well that the Scottish Tory party is a party of Holyrood. It's their greatest concentration of national politicians. Their leadership has set policy with no interference and have always returned a respectable 16-19 MSPs at each election. They're calculation is, and Mundell is articulating it well, deliver a chunk of tax powers to the Parliament and offer a new centre-right offer to Scots - less tax, a redesigned state based on the individual and not being run from ministers desks at Holyrood. That voting base has for a long time voted SNP. The soft no, centre right vote in the Borders, Perthshire and central Scotland and in Edinburgh in places like Pentlands etc.

 

From what I've read they see next year as their best chance to break the 20 MSPs mark and do very well. Davidson is punchy and likeable and she's got a good top team at present. They've also lined up a few QCs and other names to stand so I've been told. People who will bring weight to them at Holyrood.

 

If the SNP chase the left vote, it opens the right up to the Tories. Sturgeon, will likely adhere to her lefty approach at the election and chase the Labour Party into the low 20s MSP wise. Davidson in that position should be bold and steal the SNP's middle class clothes and centrist voters by offering a cheeky tax reduction.

 

It's effectively what the SNP have been doing with that demographic since 2007 with their council tax freeze!

 

It'll damage Labour further but it'd benefit the Tories. I reckon some on here may be a bit surprised when a Tory party with the ability to vary people's tax rates in Scotland start to pick up more voters.

 

 

Unlikely. Harvie will adopt the approach of Salmond in May by saying he won't have a coalition but would offer support when needed, but the terms would be on Harvie's terms not the SNP's. Harvie won't sanction fracking but I think a few SNP ministers will once the moratorium ends.

 

I really think if the opposition parties adopt some staunch and principled positions on the left and right the SNP could feel a squeeze next year and polls narrow. It's harder for Labour as Sturgeon's SNP is seeking and is squatting on its traditional centre left vote, but I think they're cause could be improved by a Corbyn win and could attract some wayward lefties back to labour. After all a Scottish Labour demanding scotrail and Calman be nationalised and arguing for more radical redistribution through coming tax and welfare powers could be more powerful to some who've left than the centrism of the SNP who are trying to keep right wing farmers in a voting bloc with Clydeside socialists.

 

A couple of really good posts.  Thanks for that.

 

I'm not sure how much of a squeeze the SNP will actually get, but what you have said points to, IMO, both Labour and Tory being able to do well in a post-independence Scotland.  Until then, it will be interesting!

[coconut doug]

Which is what you and your ilk hope for

Independence is all about hope, but I don't wish people dead. It is just an inconvenient fact for Unionists that their support is heavily skewed towards older people. Older people tend to die more quickly than younger ones and if nothing changes there will be a majority in favour of indy in a few years time. Voting for Wassup will not work.

[HaymarketJambo]

I'm neither here nor there regarding the tories but. .....

You say you had family that worked in mining. So did I but you'll forgive me for not sharing your rosy view of a dirty, dangerous back breaking job that put thousands of working class men into an early grave. Has any government since thatcher made an effort to reintroduce coal mining? Nope, because coal doesn't fit into the green agenda.

Labour may still play the mining grievance card but it's telling that the snp hardly ever mention it.

The closure of ravenscraig was a scandal at the time but the rise of China and India would have eventually brought it's closure anyway.

Linwood? Really?

 

Yip, the tories have an element of responsibility to bare for food banks but don't kid yourself that labour and snp aren't complicit in this as well for their own political ends.

I never mentioned the rosy world of the mines - But what the Tory Government at the time should have done is have plan B, to help these brave men and their families for life after the pits had gone.

 

In fairness to the Labour Party and the SNP on food banks they are only still up for these people that need to use them which is shameful in a rich Country.

[GBJambo]

Independence is all about hope, but I don't wish people dead. It is just an inconvenient fact for Unionists that their support is heavily skewed towards older people. Older people tend to die more quickly than younger ones and if nothing changes there will be a majority in favour of indy in a few years time. Voting for Wassup will not work.

The trend is the older you are the more likely you are to vote no. Now that coupled with the fact we have an ageing population would mean if there was another vote then no would prevail again.

[TheMaganator]

Independence is all about hope, but I don't wish people dead. It is just an inconvenient fact for Unionists that their support is heavily skewed towards older people. Older people tend to die more quickly than younger ones and if nothing changes there will be a majority in favour of indy in a few years time. Voting for Wassup will not work.

I do not see this changing. When that current demographic pass on there'll be another to take their place. 

 

The No vote support in that age group wasn't because they're all tea towel collectors - it is because people who have worked hard all their lives don't want to risk a turbulent retirement to satisfy nationalism. That wont change. Those with the most to lose voted No. That will not change so long as the plans for independence remain on the back of a packet of cigarettes. 

[JamboX2]

Independence is all about hope, but I don't wish people dead. It is just an inconvenient fact for Unionists that their support is heavily skewed towards older people. Older people tend to die more quickly than younger ones and if nothing changes there will be a majority in favour of indy in a few years time. Voting for Wassup will not work.

Wassup?

 

And if the position on currency and pensions had been stronger and more coherent and thought out then it wouldn't matter what demographic did over another, yes would've won.

 

No only had to rebut yes positions. Had yes countered them more coherently and authoratively than it's all scaremongering and doing Scotland down then it may have well turned out differently.

[ToadKiller Dog]

The convener of the new Scottish Independence Party

http://www.aforceforgood.org.uk/affg/about/aboutali.html