The 2015 General Election Megathread

[Thunderstruck]

Historically support for independence was always around 33%. It's been consistantly 45% whilst the No vote decreases.

 

A couple of points re the above:

 

1. You are guilty of a "Pick-n-Mix" comparison - percentage of electorate v percentage of turnout. You true comparison is 33 v 37 (in whole numbers).

 

2. How in a binary situation can one half be steady while the other is decreasing?

[aussieh]

It has been shown in a series of reports that aside from Labour not offering answers to certain issues on immigration, austerity etc, that the fact that the Tories played the growth of the SNP in the polls was a killer blow.

 

The Tories could effectively campaign in the rest of the UK as the party against nationalism and the Scottish National Party. It swung votes in England and detracted some in Wales from voting Plaid. The effect of having Alex Salmond, a man not very well loved by many down south, as a bogeyman about to run riot in Westminster and influence the direction of government but the scare on many voters to jump into the Tory boat.

 

Not to mention the unprecedented Liberal collapse.

 

The SNP winning 50% of the vote and 90% of the seats in Scotland was massively influential in making English minds up. Miliband actually answered the question on would he work with them and it was still thrown back at them. The SNP and Tory campaigns were synced. Not intentionally. But by saying to Scots a vote for the SNP would bring about a Labour government and that they could block the Tories out of power helped the Tories in England say that Labour would be weak and run from Salmond's office.

 

None of which, on both sides, was remotely true.

 

If you ask me it proved we needelectoral reform. When half the voting public are represented by 3 MPs you begin to question the system.

Theyre not, theyre represented where Snp are mps, I didnt vote for DC, but hes still my PM. like it or not.

Change because your mob got hosed, more like.

Its the same myth with Ukip, they got pumped in every seat they went for, but you want to add them all together and give them a seat.

No, they got pumped, same as Slab, pumped.

[Stuart Lyon]

BP's planned investment is explained by deeside jambo's many informed contributions to this thread but don't let the truth get in the way of the SNP's propaganda.

[aussieh]

BP's planned investment is explained by deeside jambo's many informed contributions to this thread but don't let the truth get in the way of the SNP's propaganda.

Aye, good one.

Informed.

[Stuart Lyon]

Canada calling Aussieh, Canada calling Aussieh come in please your time is up!

[JamboX2]

Theyre not, theyre represented where Snp are mps, I didnt vote for DC, but hes still my PM. like it or not.

Change because your mob got hosed, more like.

Its the same myth with Ukip, they got pumped in every seat they went for, but you want to add them all together and give them a seat.

No, they got pumped, same as Slab, pumped.

I've always backed proportional representation. It creates a better and more functional democracy. One where all views are heard. I don't agree with UKIP but they have a following and gained millions of votes this year. They have as much a right to sit in parliament as the mainstream. Same as the greens and SWP and the like.

 

My choice of words was perhaps wrong. You're right they're represented. However, half the electorate do not have their voice heard by the parties who reflect their concerns best. The SNP can represent them, but they aren't voting in parliament in a manner these people want to see a representative act.

 

Yes Labour would've done better, but not much better. The Tories would gain seats as would Liberals and Greens. These voices would be heard through that.

 

Most importantly though, the government of the day would need to have at least 50% of the electorate backing them. Unlike now we're we have a majority on 30% of the vote at the UK level and in Scotland on 40%. Is that not proper?

[XB52]

BP's planned investment is explained by deeside jambo's many informed contributions to this thread but don't let the truth get in the way of the SNP's propaganda.

SNP propaganda????  It was a link from that well know SNP publicity machine, the BBC!!!!

[jambo1185]

http://blog.mcnalu.net/scottish-government-cuts.html

 

Interesting on local government cuts

[HaymarketJambo]

BP's planned investment is explained by deeside jambo's many informed contributions to this thread but don't let the truth get in the way of the SNP's propaganda.

 

Well SNP's propaganda doing really well, they won 56 seats in May's General Election, have you forgotten about that? Plus the SNP have been wining local elections since May's Election, I think they won five local elections last night?  

[aussieh]

Canada calling Aussieh, Canada calling Aussieh come in please your time is up!

Indy first, so 2018.

[Stuart Lyon]

Haymarket Jambo - they retained 4 former SNP seats and won 1 from the Greens. But you put `SNP spin on it if you want.

[aussieh]

Haymarket Jambo - they retained 4 former SNP seats and won 1 from the Greens. But you put `SNP spin on it if you want.

A wins a win. If the Aussies had beaten England in the ashes, they'd of retained them. Win/retained.

Same/identical.

[HaymarketJambo]

Haymarket Jambo - they retained 4 former SNP seats and won 1 from the Greens. But you put `SNP spin on it if you want.

 Stuart - Yes SNP retained 4 former SNP seats, but they could have lost them? No spin from me on it, the Labour Party are past masters on putting spin on things.

[ToadKiller Dog]

Haymarket Jambo - they retained 4 former SNP seats and won 1 from the Greens. But you put `SNP spin on it if you want.

The significance in the results is the swing of 20% or above in 4 of the seats it matches with recent by-election results in Aberdeen and North Lanarkshire . The picture seems rather uniform nation wide .

It matches well with the expect Holyrood results for next year .

[jambo1185]

The significance in the results is the swing of 20% or above in 4 of the seats it matches with recent by-election results in Aberdeen and North Lanarkshire . The picture seems rather uniform nation wide .

It matches well with the expect Holyrood results for next year .

 

I agree. 16% turnout would usually give a bit of caution to reading too much into results but there's no question of the SNP dominating the constituency votes next May.

[Stuart Lyon]

The 16% turnout doesn't resonate with the claim post referendum about the masses increasingly engaging with politics. Apathy rules!

[Thunderstruck]

http://blog.mcnalu.net/scottish-government-cuts.html

 

Interesting on local government cuts

So that's ?1bn from NHS and ?1.5bn from Local Government. Where has the money gone?

 

Did the Scottish Government use it to offset the worst effects of the "Bedroom Tax? I don't think so.

 

Did it use the money to assist those using Food Bank? I Doubt it or we would have heard about it.

 

Did it go to building new, affordable housing? Not that I've seen.

 

Did it go to creating the National Police (and Spy) and Fire Services? It certainly looks like it which is curious as the merger was described as an "efficiency".

 

Was it diverted to White Paper and mechanisms of Referendum? Obviously.

 

Was some stashed in a War Chest? We now know it was.

 

I suppose we have the new Forth Bridge, sorry, Crossing, Borders Railway and Gaelic signs all round. So there are some positives.

[aussieh]

So that's ?1bn from NHS and ?1.5bn from Local Government. Where has the money gone?

Did the Scottish Government use it to offset the worst effects of the "Bedroom Tax? I don't think so.

Did it use the money to assist those using Food Bank? I Doubt it or we would have heard about it.

Did it go to building new, affordable housing? Not that I've seen.

Did it go to creating the National Police (and Spy) and Fire Services? It certainly looks like it which is curious as the merger was described as an "efficiency".

Was it diverted to White Paper and mechanisms of Referendum? Obviously.

Was some stashed in a War Chest? We now know it was.

I suppose we have the new Forth Bridge, sorry, Crossing, Borders Railway and Gaelic signs all round. So there are some positives.

oh ffs, para wreck post of the year.

Insert tin foil guy with cat.

[aussieh]

Forgot this.

[Psychedelicropcircle]

oh ffs, para wreck post of the year.

Insert tin foil guy with cat.

 

In the mean time Gideon has a fire sale to his mates in the city at the cost of a billion plus to the tax payer.....any grevances here or is it the usual passive response from labour?

 

But but but Gideon isny trying to brek the Union likesey!

[jambos are go!]

The next election in Scotland is for seats at Holyrood. Is  it now about time that we focused on the record of the SNP with two consecutive terms in office and a huge budget to spend. Instead of the lead issue for SNP supporters being  how terrible the other options in there opinion are. Let them run and be  judged on their record //. What do SNP supporters think about money being taken from the NHS, Education and the suppression of tax increases to the benefit of the well off. 

[aussieh]

The next election in Scotland is for seats at Holyrood. Is it now about time that we focused on the record of the SNP with two consecutive terms in office and a huge budget to spend. Instead of the lead issue for SNP supporters being how terrible the other options in there opinion are. Let them run and be judged on their record //. What do SNP supporters think about money being taken from the NHS, Education and the suppression of tax increases to the benefit of the well off.

Auch well, if its good enough for England, we are part of the Union.

Monkey see, Monkey do, and all that.

 

Out of interest, how long are no voting labour voters, going to allow an unelected Tory Government at WM, run our country.

[Cade]

SNP are by no means perfect. Their education brief has been a debacle and Police Scotland is not much better.

They remain, however, miles ahead of the total mess being made in Westminster by the "Big Two" and my vote will be staying with the SNP.

[jambos are go!]

So we get more attacks on the SNPs opponents and little or nothing about their timid administration that has abandoned need in favour of populism and political dogma that was rejected in the Referendum.

[Harry Palmer]

Are any of the SNP opponents, even on this thread, promoting their own policies or are they just attacking the SNP for the sake of it? 

 

That latter strategy seems to be working though, so keep it up.  

 

 

There does need to be a proper alternative in Scotland and I hope the other parties realise that rather than spend their time simply highlighting what the SNP are bad at, give people an option for something better. Unfortunately, I don't think any, at the moment, are capable of doing so. Labour are ****ed regardless, Tories don't care about Scotland even though they're the "Unionists/One Nation party" and the Lib Dems are pointless.

 

Anyway, I hope there is a change in time for the Scottish elections otherwise the SNP will win with a majority, again. That would be bad for Scottish politics which is already suffering from a dearth of talent. 

 

(I'm not in Scotland so you can stick this in the shit tray.)

[AlphonseCapone]

Are any of the SNP opponents, even on this thread, promoting their own policies or are they just attacking the SNP for the sake of it?

 

That latter strategy seems to be working though, so keep it up.

 

 

There does need to be a proper alternative in Scotland and I hope the other parties realise that rather than spend their time simply highlighting what the SNP are bad at, give people an option for something better. Unfortunately, I don't think any, at the moment, are capable of doing so. Labour are messed regardless, Tories don't care about Scotland even though they're the "Unionists/One Nation party" and the Lib Dems are pointless.

 

Anyway, I hope there is a change in time for the Scottish elections otherwise the SNP will win with a majority, again. That would be bad for Scottish politics which is already suffering from a dearth of talent.

 

(I'm not in Scotland so you can stick this in the shit tray.)

Mate I've been saying the same for ages but you just get labelled a nationalist apologist etc.

 

It's not rocket science, Scotland could be improved in lots of areas but we've been reduced to a one party worth voting for country.

[jambos are go!]

Mate I've been saying the same for ages but you just get labelled a nationalist apologist etc.

 

It's not rocket science, Scotland could be improved in lots of areas but we've been reduced to a one party worth voting for country.

The fact that the SNP failed to get 50% of the vote in the General Election indicates that a majority of voters disagree with that statement.

 

Like others your post is as much an attack on Labour as anything else.

 

Lets talk about the SNP policies at Holyrood on the NHS, Education, Policing and the suppression of potentiallly beneficial tax rises within their power. That's what we should be doing because they have been poor IMO and Scotland deserves better. A debate on the issues and then decide who is best to vote for.

[aussieh]

The fact that the SNP failed to get 50% of the vote in the General Election indicates that a majority of voters disagree with that statement.

 

Like others your post is as much an attack on Labour as anything else.

 

Lets talk about the SNP policies at Holyrood on the NHS, Education, Policing and the suppression of potentiallly beneficial tax rises within their power. That's what we should be doing because they have been poor IMO and Scotland deserves better. A debate on the issues and then decide who is best to vote for.

Has any political party bettered, what the SNP achieved in May?.

So, if not, why is it disagreement.

Yes, youre right Scotland deserves better, but you voted no, so we're all fecked. cheers.

[Malinga the Swinga]

This thread has seen a major improvement in the last week or so as debate has been more reasoned and stupid one word or made up word answers have vanished. That could of course be because of the ignore poster feature which I started using last week.

 

Whilst I expect the SNP to easily win a majority in the Scottish elections, it will be interesting to see how the other parties fair, in particular will the percentage vote of Labour reduce from General Election or will it be steady. Can't see it increasing bar something completely out of the blue happening. Will also see if Conservatives increase/decrease or remain as they are.

 

Would prefer if all parties campaigned mainly on what they will do for Scotland and not just try and destroy the other parties campaigns but guess that is unlikely, although Labour and Conservatives would have nothing to lose by doing this. The SNP are now the party with most to lose and it remains to be seen how they will focus their campaign. Be positive and campaign on what they have done, or rely on usual negative tactics.

 

We will find out soon enough.

[AlphonseCapone]

The fact that the SNP failed to get 50% of the vote in the General Election indicates that a majority of voters disagree with that statement.

 

Like others your post is as much an attack on Labour as anything else.

 

Lets talk about the SNP policies at Holyrood on the NHS, Education, Policing and the suppression of potentiallly beneficial tax rises within their power. That's what we should be doing because they have been poor IMO and Scotland deserves better. A debate on the issues and then decide who is best to vote for.

Here's a perfect example of what I mean, you can play around with percentages and any thing else you want, the fact is, the SNP have went from minority to majority at holyrood, less than 10 MPs to 56 at Westminster and look on course to sweep all before it at Holyrood next year, those are facts.

 

So why is that? Because they are perfect and everything they've done has been great? Of course not. There are plenty SNP policies that can be criticised and I'm happy to have those discussions but despite the areas the SNP are failing in, no party offers viable alternatives. Instead they do what folk on here do, they criticise but offer no alternative, that's only 1 side of the opposition coin.

 

I didn't mention labour specifically because it is an attack on all parties, the difference is labour are most likely to form a government in Scotland outside the SNP and should be best placed to show the SNP aren't as left wing as they claim.

[ToadKiller Dog]

Would be Scottish Branch manager Kenny mackintosh thing us scots are to reactionary to

be given more powers ? , I presume we need the nice cool heads of the elite in London to temper our fire . Halfwit

http://www.thenational.scot/politics/no-more-powers-for-reactionary-scotland-says-ken-macintosh.6135

[JamboX2]

The SNP are doing many things wrong, but look down south as it will show you how much worse it could be.

 

Labour should be standing alongside the SNP to challenge the tories rather than continuing with their pathetic meek stance.

When Corbyn wins the leadership vote this September, the SNP may find themselves out lifted by Labour. That would expose the SNP to an attack they've not faced or been challenged to face. Labour would at that stage be demanding the utilities be nationalised whilst the SNP punt Calmac and scotrail to the highest bidders.

 

That'd be an "issue" to be bridged policy wise. After all they're pretty centre right on the economy.

[JamboX2]

SNP are by no means perfect. Their education brief has been a debacle and Police Scotland is not much better.

They remain, however, miles ahead of the total mess being made in Westminster by the "Big Two" and my vote will be staying with the SNP.

So they've screwed our schools and destroyed our police. But you'll back them regardless? Not saying Labour is the answer, at present they're far from it. But the idea of another landslide SNP majority is worrying. A minority government would be best as then they'd need to listen to all opposition parties or face another election, and all the opposition parties aren't happy with their handling of a lot of things.

[JamboX2]

Would be Scottish Branch manager Kenny mackintosh thing us scots are to reactionary to

be given more powers ? , I presume we need the nice cool heads of the elite in London to temper our fire . Halfwit

http://www.thenational.scot/politics/no-more-powers-for-reactionary-scotland-says-ken-macintosh.6135

Won't win, move on. Edited August 8, 2015 by JamboX2

[JamboX2]

Has any political party bettered, what the SNP achieved in May?.

So, if not, why is it disagreement.

Yes, youre right Scotland deserves better, but you voted no, so we're all fecked. cheers.

Out of interest Aussie. Would you vote for anyone but the SNP had yes won?

[jambo1185]

As ive said before an increasing number of pro indy supporters now want a SNP / Green coalition as they dont actually like a lot of what the SNP do policy wise and seen their term in office as a failure in many areas (education, health, crime, environment) but obviously want a pro indy government.

 

The see the SNP as un-progressive, in hock to big business and the oil companies, and lazy and feel the Greens would actually force some change through.

 

On utilities, even Sheridan thinks nationalising them is too far, so of Corbyn does win it will be interesting how the parties position them. Particularly given the two prospective SLAB leaders have said they dont back Corbyn and dony agree with his standing on many issues. Will they go off and do their own thing? If they do, the out lefting SNP angle falls away as Dugdale will fight from the centre.

Edited August 8, 2015 by jambo1185

[aussieh]

Out of interest Aussie. Would you vote for anyone but the SNP had yes won?

As there would be no SNP, or SLab.

I'd be voting for the current FMs newly formed SDR party and then, The GLS's anointment of President of Scotland.

Thanks for asking X2, so yes, I would've voted for someone other than the mighty SNP, if it was yes.

 

Not be long

[aussieh]

So they've screwed our schools and destroyed our police. But you'll back them regardless? Not saying Labour is the answer, at present they're far from it. But the idea of another landslide SNP majority is worrying. A minority government would be best as then they'd need to listen to all opposition parties or face another election, and all the opposition parties aren't happy with their handling of a lot of things.

Theyve wrecked nothing. Theyre trying to run Scotland on a decreased budget from WM, so its a time to bed in problem.

[Thunderstruck]

Theyve wrecked nothing. Theyre trying to run Scotland on a decreased budget from WM, so its a time to bed in problem.

Eyes wide shut.

[Cade]

We'll just have to see what tax varying powers the Scottish Government gets granted from Westminster and then what is done with these powers before really seeing where things stand.

 

Will the SNP be brave and true to their word, raising middle and higher-band income tax to pay for improving things like Police, Schools and NHS?

 

Will ScotLab and Scot-Tory pledge to lower taxes in a desperate attempt to woo voters?

 

time will tell and all this whataboutery is getting us nowhere but in silly circular arguments.

[aussieh]

Eyes wide shut.

Yawn...

[Psychedelicropcircle]

Eyes wide shut.

My party's shite so I'll just attack yours, Slab2015 manifesto

Edited August 8, 2015 by Psychedelicropcircle

[aussieh]

Scottish government to ban GM crops.

 

 

Probably be attacked by unionists, as usual.

[Jarhead]

My party's shite so I'll just attack yours, Slab2015 manifesto

As mentioned earlier in this thread, Scottish politics is just going round and round in circles.

I've noticed that the snp never tries to defend its record in office, it just attacks anyone who attacks it.

In terms of the Scottish parliament, the snp have been in power longer than labour were.

As the incumbent of course they're going to be the focus.

[Hasselhoff]

As mentioned earlier in this thread, Scottish politics is just going round and round in circles.

I've noticed that the snp never tries to defend its record in office, it just attacks anyone who attacks it.

In terms of the Scottish parliament, the snp have been in power longer than labour were.

As the incumbent of course they're going to be the focus.

Yep, they are in control yet act like opposition where they don't need to be held accountable.

 

At FMQ, Sturgeon repeatedly says "I will not stand here and be lectured by Kezia Dugdale." rather than responding to the point being made. Experts at deflection.

[GBJambo]

Sturgeon is about the only party leader that will actually answer a question when asked.

 

Just a FYI, Labour have had more years in power than the SNP. A minority government existed in 2007, the tram fiasco provided evidence that they were at the mercy of other parties.

 

Un-capitalising the SNP is a bit childish no? Both your contributions equate to the same - SNP bad. We get it. Make a positive case, the electorate respond well to it.

What positive case do the snp make apart from "its all Westministers fault"

[Hasselhoff]

What positive case do the snp make apart from "its all Westministers fault"

oh they make a positive case all right, like a snake oil salesman promising the Earth but "only with independence"

 

Part of me wants the SNP to get indy just to watch salmond, swinney, sturgeon etc. become hated more than Thatcher when the country revolts against them during the inevitable decades of austerity. Their economic plan is woeful and they will be found out if they ever get their way. Sadly the 55% will need to suffer in order for that to happen.

[Hasselhoff]

Scotland already suffers, and has austerity forced upon us. And you're happy to watch Scotland struggle just to get back at the SNP for whatever they've done to upset you? Unluckily for you, Scotland wouldn't suffer - it'd thrive.

Yes, if we voted for indy then we have brought it upon ourselves and deserve everything we get. I would hope that, when presented with facts that show Scotland would have a unmanageable deficit without major tax rises and public spending cuts, the majority of people would vote against it.

 

What evidence do you have that it would thrive? There is plenty to show that we would struggle. Is it just hope over facts again?

[aussieh]

oh they make a positive case all right, like a snake oil salesman promising the Earth but "only with independence"

 

Part of me wants the SNP to get indy just to watch salmond, swinney, sturgeon etc. become hated more than Thatcher when the country revolts against them during the inevitable decades of austerity. Their economic plan is woeful and they will be found out if they ever get their way. Sadly the 55% will need to suffer in order for that to happen.

Im sure England will welcome you with open arms.

[aussieh]

Yes, if we voted for indy then we have brought it upon ourselves and deserve everything we get. I would hope that, when presented with facts that show Scotland would have a unmanageable deficit without major tax rises and public spending cuts, the majority of people would vote against it.

 

What evidence do you have that it would thrive? There is plenty to show that we would struggle. Is it just hope over facts again?

Hypocrisy, of the highest order.