aussieh Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) I Aussie, the UK is your country as much as anyone else's even if you voted to leave it. You're ia citizen and have rights. It's yours and mine. People would shape Indy Scotland as much as they could within the independence model offered of sharing this that and the next thing it's a limiting of the freedom to shape the nation through things which would've needed massive amounts of consultation between two nations which were nominally independent. Our budgets would be shaped by the Bank of England and the Treasuy, our energy market by English consumers and our economic policy by what course the Treasury favoured to keep a sterling zone afloat. That's limiting, not empowering. We have our own captain at the helm. Her name is Nicola Sturgeon. SNP MSP. Elected by the good people of Govan. Her party was elected by the Scottish electorate to run Scotland and lead it. Are you telling me she's an appointed prefect? A stooge to London? A branch manager? A regional sales rep? A lackie? A toom tabbard? Get a grip of that attitude on that. We aren't serfs and we have rights and the state obligations to us. The yes campaign lost because it didn't convince the people. It's own failure. The people said no, but like the SNP. It's an odd one but there it is. Scotland isn't a vassal state, it's a nation within the UK and has a democratically elected government which enacts policies on a wide range of issues and will do so on many more. It's attitudes like yours which will jeprodise a future yes win. She not, Mundell, Is.I dont really care, is the answer to your last point.No sold us to England for their gold. The Usual , why did I expect anything different, same folk couldntwait to indulge themselves 300 years ago. Edited August 12, 2015 by aussieh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 To be honest, if devolution works and it does, then we don't need independnence. That's my opinion. I feel British and I feel part of the UK. I work for a cross border firm and we're no different from these guys. We're proud scots and proudly English etc. I don't think Scottish and English and Welsh interests are all that different or divergent and I think the union has been great for us all. It needs reformed, but Scotland needs reformed as well. Scotland is failing as much as the UK to offer my generation a new and bright future. The white paper was the negotiating position of the government and it didn't offer me the new nation which would do better by the young or disadvantaged or old. I doubt they will sort out their issues before a new vote, but their hope is he UK as a whole has voted out of the EU and Scotland hasn't. That democratic argument is stronger and will win over soft nos. As an aside. I don't remember SNP vitriol and anger at inequality in wealth and health or at food banks before this time last year or much before that. It was more pro-business and centrist. And that's my worry with them, they have no ideological roots to keep them anchored and anything is a reason to further independence as a cause rather than benefiting the lives of the people they serve. Again, I don't really disagree. If Devo max had been on the referendum I'd have voted for that. But as I've said before independence isn't about nationalism for me, rather a chance to forge a better democracy. That doesn't seem forthcoming from Labour or Tory so I'm snookered. I also belive post independence you would see a fractured snp and a new political landscape. That said, I suspect that now the snp is starting to lay down centre left political roots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Again, I don't really disagree. If Devo max had been on the referendum I'd have voted for that. But as I've said before independence isn't about nationalism for me, rather a chance to forge a better democracy. That doesn't seem forthcoming from Labour or Tory so I'm snookered. I also belive post independence you would see a fractured snp and a new political landscape. That said, I suspect that now the snp is starting to lay down centre left political roots. Kinda agree, but Devo Max is only what the parties shape it to be. The people haven't had a say in the shape of either independence or devolution mark 2. A real constitutional convention should've happened for both, setting out what we the people want, not what the SNP or Labour think is best. I'll believe the centre left roots when I see John Swinney unveil a redistributive budget rather than a regressive one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 IShe not, Mundell, Is. I dont really care, is the answer to your last point.No sold us to England for their gold. The Usual , why did I expect anything different, same folk couldntwait to indulge themselves 300 years ago. Really? I mean you think Mundell controls the Scottish Parliament? If so then I take it you're abstaining in May? Well fair enough. But I think you'll find the boys at the top would make as much from independence at the expense of others if we went independent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Really? I mean you think Mundell controls the Scottish Parliament? If so then I take it you're abstaining in May? Well fair enough. But I think you'll find the boys at the top would make as much from independence at the expense of others if we went independent. We didnt have to, now we do with a tory majority, the first since devo, Veto Mundell, tjinks hes a modern day pilate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Cant be bothered to look for the 2016 thread on mobile but first notable casualty of the selection process is Colin Keir who has been dumped by the local SNP party in Edinburgh Western (for a far better candidate it must be added) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Cant be bothered to look for the 2016 thread on mobile but first notable casualty of the selection process is Colin Keir who has been dumped by the local SNP party in Edinburgh Western (for a far better candidate it must be added) Thought there'd be a cull of some MSPs from 2011. Who's replacing him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarhead Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Thought there'd be a cull of some MSPs from 2011. Who's replacing him?Toni giugliano, an snp policy wonk by the sound of it. I'm not surprised kier got the bullet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Toni giugliano, an snp policy wonk by the sound of it. I'm not surprised kier got the bullet. Career politician type from HQ? I didn't think Keir was a bad MSP. He wasn't as visible as his predecessor, but decent enough guy. From what I understand he's a local guy, dunno if Giugliano is. The Scottish Labour candidate in the seat, Catriona Hedley, from what I'm told, is an impressive candidate as well. Maybe a change of staff to prevent a loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 The ongoing fall in unemeployment is prove positive of how Scotland is thriving within the Union IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/health/number-nhs-patients-sent-private-6242541 "Number of NHS patients sent for private care at public expense doubles in a year" ?The NHS is devolved. The SNP has under spent into the hundreds of millions over the last few years. Yet they ran a campaign complaining of the privatisation of the NHS. Rank hypocrisy aside, this isn't very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/08/coups-splits-or-surprising-calm-what-jeremy-corbyn-era-would-look-labour Good article on Corbyn and the outcomes of him winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 For what it's worth... Another... http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/08/owen-jones-right-are-mocking-jeremy-corbyn-because-secretly-they-fear-him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/08/coups-splits-or-surprising-calm-what-jeremy-corbyn-era-would-look-labour Good article on Corbyn and the outcomes of him winning. For what it's worth... Another... http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/08/owen-jones-right-are-mocking-jeremy-corbyn-because-secretly-they-fear-him Has there been any opinion polls yet as to voting intentions IF Corbyn were to be Labour Leader? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Has there been any opinion polls yet as to voting intentions IF Corbyn were to be Labour Leader? Not that I've seen. Although he attracts more support from UKIP and SNP voters, I've noticed that mentioned in numerous articles. Including one there. Although in Scotland the Scottish Leader has to be factored into support. Although Jez and Kez has a ring to it... Jez and Kez for Scotland on billboards up and down the land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Has there been any opinion polls yet as to voting intentions IF Corbyn were to be Labour Leader? Current Westminster voting intention has Tories on 40% and Labour on 31%. The fieldwork was done whilst Corbyn was front-runner. Also, X2, you're seriously posting that Owen Jones article? The same Owen Jones who said the Tories should be terrified after Russell Brand came out in support of Miliband and that that announcement was a game changer which would secure a Labour majority in May? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Although Jez and Kez has a ring to it... Jez and Kez for Scotland on billboards up and down the land. A ring to it? A "sovvie" ring by the sounds of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Flippancy in the face of facts. Facts are chiels that winna ding said a famous scotsman. Lets examine yours. 1. No prominence is given to the fact that over 40% did not reveal their vote and were recorded as undecided, refused or wont vote. The SNP only got 366 definite votes out of 1029 polled. I did not ask you to look at headlines only the data tables. Prominence is not relevant and in any case i am not sure if the number of refused, undecideds etc is exceptional however the numbers you quote are correct. 2. Over 30% undecided and we know who harvested these votes last September. The 30% figure is correct (taken from raw data table) but your statement has me baffled. How do we know who harvested these votes last September? Who harvested them anyway? Perhaps you can reveal how you know this and why i should accept it as a fact. We do know something to some extent i..e. how they voted in the GE. They were Lab 58 SNP 52 Con 38 Lib 24 Others 10 Did not vote 125 What we do know is that 42% of undecideds in this poll were undecided in the last election. This exceeds the combined total for Lib, Lab and Con. This sugests to me that undecided was a common thread for these people in elections so i find it difficult to accept your fact that we know who harvested these votes last September. 3. The number of non committed young voters is slightly higher so they are as much up for grabs. Not true and so not a fact as far as this poll is concerned anyway. The number of non committed in each age group is as follows, highest first: 65+ 153 35-44 85 45-54 70 25-34 69 16-24 64 55-64 56 Perhaps you meant the proportion of undecideds in which case you are not correct either. The proportion of undecideds in the 16-24 group is less than the average. The only category amongst your over 40% where 16-24 year olds exceeded the mean were those who stated they would not vote. This figure (11%) is much lower than might be expected in an election and in any case i fail to see how a declaration not to vote can be taken as a signal that in future they might vote in a certain way. ? 4. I think that the survey was carried out in part 'in the home' and not detached from prying eyes and ears perhaps. I genuinely thought this was a reference to embarrassed Tories (a phenomena thought to be worth about 3% in elections) but it seems i have missed the point. I am not aware of any statistical inaccuracies created by voters denying that they will vote Labour, Liberal, Green or SNP. Ukip was not included so i do not understand the significance of prying eyes an ears unless you are suggesting that those intending to vote SNP were under some sort of psychological pressure from others in close proximity. My post wasn't meant to be flippant. I hope i have now addressed the substance of your post. I will now file your facts in the same category as other recent irrefutables like AS lied about legal advice AS lied about 24 billion barrels of oil Neil Hay belittled pensioners in Edinburgh South The SNP spends less per capita on the NHS than they do in rUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I've always been curious what furious backtracking sounded like. 1 minute over 65s are self centred and border line do wally next they have the wisdom of age. The reason lamont and other no voters got upset is that dying young is a very severe concern(and 1 the present Scottish government already has the powers to address) and is not a valid economic case for separation as it suggests that pensions are only affordable if the population has the decency to keep dying young. You will have to remain curious. I am neither furious nor backtracking. I am also unaware of when I accused over 65's of being "self centred and border line do wally" I know I do not feel that way but feel sure that if I did I would use a different phrase, perhaps "doolally". If you know different though, please let me know. The reason Lamont got upset was because it blew a hole in the No side's argument that pensions in Scotland were unaffordable. It was and still is a perfectly valid argument that has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that dying young is very often tragic. Pensions are more affordable because people die young. Nobody is suggesting that we should encourage people to continue to do this so pensions are better for those who survive. Indy is about Social Justice. It is about redressing these inequalities that have prevailed for far too long and now show signs of increasing. Actually in about 30 years time Scotland is likely to be in a much more favourable position than rUK with regard to pension affordability. Baby boomers will be gone leaving Scotland with a higher % of economically active citizens. Sorry baby boomers but you will die sooner or later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 so the SNP are promising a longer life for Scotland's citizens! Amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarhead Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 You will have to remain curious. I am neither furious nor backtracking. I am also unaware of when I accused over 65's of being "self centred and border line do wally" I know I do not feel that way but feel sure that if I did I would use a different phrase, perhaps "doolally". If you know different though, please let me know. The reason Lamont got upset was because it blew a hole in the No side's argument that pensions in Scotland were unaffordable. It was and still is a perfectly valid argument that has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that dying young is very often tragic. Pensions are more affordable because people die young. Nobody is suggesting that we should encourage people to continue to do this so pensions are better for those who survive. Indy is about Social Justice. It is about redressing these inequalities that have prevailed for far too long and now show signs of increasing. Actually in about 30 years time Scotland is likely to be in a much more favourable position than rUK with regard to pension affordability. Baby boomers will be gone leaving Scotland with a higher % of economically active citizens. Sorry baby boomers but you will die sooner or later. I gave the reason why some people didn't like that particular snp line regarding pensions. If you don't want to believe some people found it distasteful then that's your choice. I clearly should have been much more accurate in the way I responded to your posts. The lack of inverted commas,especially with words that did not appear in your post, usually suggests an element of paraphrasing of how I interpreted your posts (looking at the replies you got, I wasn't alone in my interpretation). Once again, I unreservedly apologise to any yes supporter who is not fully satisfied with my grammar or spelling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I gave the reason why some people didn't like that particular snp line regarding pensions. If you don't want to believe some people found it distasteful then that's your choice. I clearly should have been much more accurate in the way I responded to your posts. The lack of inverted commas,especially with words that did not appear in your post, usually suggests an element of paraphrasing of how I interpreted your posts (looking at the replies you got, I wasn't alone in my interpretation). Once again, I unreservedly apologise to any yes supporter who is not fully satisfied with my grammar or spelling. Repcets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarhead Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Repcets. Hmm, I'm wondering if you're not as daft as you'd like us to believe with your internet persona! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Daisley with another good interview, this one with Ken http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/analysis/1326549-stephen-daisley-interviews-ken-macintosh-on-labour-independence-and-snp/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Next time you feel the need to take Opinion Polls with a pinch of salt, this might help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Daisley with another good interview, this one with Ken http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/analysis/1326549-stephen-daisley-interviews-ken-macintosh-on-labour-independence-and-snp/ Good article hopefully Ken is given a role which allows him to explore his ideas further based on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Good article hopefully Ken is given a role which allows him to explore his ideas further based on that. He came across quite well there. I liked the sound of "moving beyond opposition to austerity to an economic consensus that puts social wellbeing at its centre", however I can't help but feel that the Labour Party in general, or rather at UK level, make a mess of this as they still seem to accept the status quo regards economic thinking i.e. neoliberalism. The system that has got us to where we are today needs changed, but Labour allows the narrative to exist to the right of centre, alluding to the article in the independent posted above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Why are folk making out Corbyn is the anti - christ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 He came across quite well there. I liked the sound of "moving beyond opposition to austerity to an economic consensus that puts social wellbeing at its centre", however I can't help but feel that the Labour Party in general, or rather at UK level, make a mess of this as they still seem to accept the status quo regards economic thinking i.e. neoliberalism. The system that has got us to where we are today needs changed, but Labour allows the narrative to exist to the right of centre, alluding to the article in the independent posted above. True. But point out a mainstream party in Scotland and the wider UK actively looki beyond the neoliberal consensus. With the exception of Corbyn and Neil Findlay I don't see a lot of evidence of it. Yvette Cooper is starting to take a more full hearted approach to being against austerity but what her alternative is remains to be seen. Still stand by my early statement that a Corbyn or Cooper win is best for Labour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I'd love that smug git Blair to run against Corbyn. Be sweet to see him get an almighty smack down. Can't believe I voted for him twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Why are folk making out Corbyn is the anti - christ? Because he is questioning that which should not be questioned i.e. the neo-liberal political and economic consensus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 True. But point out a mainstream party in Scotland and the wider UK actively looki beyond the neoliberal consensus. With the exception of Corbyn and Neil Findlay I don't see a lot of evidence of it. Yvette Cooper is starting to take a more full hearted approach to being against austerity but what her alternative is remains to be seen. Still stand by my early statement that a Corbyn or Cooper win is best for Labour. There isn't one and that's why Corbyn is so refreshing! No one is saying let's dismantled capitalism, but rather the current economic system has failed and needs rebooted. If we are to offer better public services, real investment in real jobs (careers!) then to do so requires a major rethink of our economic priorities and it's environment. See Podemos and Syrizia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Because he is questioning that which should not be questioned i.e. the neo-liberal political and economic consensus. It really annoys me. Are the other leader candidates right, would Corbyn's policies make them unelectable? I don't think so, I reckon they are unelectable just now, but maybe I don't have a grasp of the overall mood of the the nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 It really annoys me. Are the other leader candidates right, would Corbyn's policies make them unelectable? I don't think so, I reckon they are unelectable just now, but maybe I don't have a grasp of the overall mood of the the nation. I like seeing the gap between the Labour membership and their politicians. It's quite tragic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 What they mean by "unelectable" is that every single media outlet and business leader will hammer Corbyn to the point where eating a bacon sandwich would be considered statesmanlike in comparison. Just that nobody wants to be the one to flat out say that democracy is all a bit of a sham. It doesn't matter if the electorate like his policies or not. He'll be painted as some radical left maniac and we'll get 5 more years of the national credit card, live within our means, arrrr economics is hard before everyone votes Tory out of fear of the Corbyn ?2400 tax bill which will be applied equally to every single family across the UK - no don't think about it too hard. I mean he's already a hardened Islamist for having the audacity to take a conciliatory tone during peace talks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 There isn't one and that's why Corbyn is so refreshing! No one is saying let's dismantled capitalism, but rather the current economic system has failed and needs rebooted. If we are to offer better public services, real investment in real jobs (careers!) then to do so requires a major rethink of our economic priorities and it's environment. See Podemos and Syrizia. Totally agree. Kendall would've been an almighty disaster in my eyes for Labour. Cooper and Burnham are varying degrees of what we've had, although Burnham says the right things I think Cooper would be the better leader of the 3 mainstream options. I hope Corbyn does win. I think he's a honest, open and frank guy. A decent person. A "person" in fact. Less careerist than the other 3, Cameron and Osbourne but also more so than Sturgeon and Eck from a Scottish perspective. The issue is what's Labours way back? Is it through pure opposition and attempting a mass movement approach, or through more pragmatic opposition and adherence to elements of the current consensus. Corbyn could make Labour a movement but he'll struggle. Unlike Sypris and Podemos leaders he's not young and he's got a past. His views on the IRA will be an issue, those he holds on Israel and Hamas an issue. He's the populist lefty we've wanted. More likeable than the others like McDonnell and Abbott, but he will need to moderate some views to lead Labour and to win. That's something he too accepts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Having lived through the disaster that was Michael Foot I have severe doubts about Corbyn. However, the centre left need to learn to woo their traditional support as well as court the middle ground or else Labour is in deep trouble. Its not impossible its common sense. Corbyn could regain support in Scotland so that would be a bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Hard to fault his ten point plan. Corbyn to save the union? http://www.jeremyforlabour.com/jeremy_corbyn_launches_standing_to_deliver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Hard to fault his ten point plan. Corbyn to save the union? http://www.jeremyforlabour.com/jeremy_corbyn_launches_standing_to_deliver Jack, see when the SNP spoke about retraining, post trident etc...Remember that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Labour's modern politicians have no principles. They just want position and power. Which is pretty much why more and more of the country are telling Labour to jog on. Corbyn probably won't be prime minister ever but I promise you this - neither will the three others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Labour's modern politicians have no principles. They just want position and power. Which is pretty much why more and more of the country are telling Labour to jog on. Corbyn probably won't be prime minister ever but I promise you this - neither will the three others. Spot on, Dawny, Prime example, Ms Kezia Dugdale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Politicians have no principles. They just want position and power. Fixed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAYEL Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 The Red Tories will never win another election no matter who is at the helm. They do not care about people they just want elected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAYEL Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBJambo Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 The Red Tories will never win another election no matter who is at the helm. They do not care about people they just want elected. This can be said about every party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAYEL Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 This can be said about every party. No The SNP are a grass roots party By the people for the people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 If you think Corbyn is a Red Tory you need to seek help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadKiller Dog Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Corbyn may have lost his chance to get labour back on track in Scotland . No more devolution No more new powers No second referendum Shame he has misread the public mood which is giving the SNP 62% in the Polls . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAYEL Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 If you think Corbyn is a Red Tory you need to seek help. His party are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAYEL Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Corbyn may have lost his chance to get labour back on track in Scotland . No more devolution No more new powers No second referendum Shame he has misread the public mood which is giving the SNP 62% in the Polls . Scotlandshire doest matter to any of them They dont care Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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