The 2015 General Election Megathread

[Sraman]

The one good thing that came from the indyref, is it opened my eyes to the media.

 

Being a Hearts supporter opened my eyes to the media.

[TheMaganator]

Scotland under Thatcher was better than it was under my lot, says Sturgeon

 

[Boris]

Scotland under Thatcher was better than it was under my lot, says Sturgeon

 

 

So you are advocating free university education, student grants, housing benefit to students in the summer?  Good man!  Where do I put my X?????????

 

Oh, but then Thatcher got rid of all that, brought in the Poll Tax (tested up here first, natch), but I suppose that was Pyrrhic for her...and as her policy of neoliberal economic "reform" (as tested by the fascist Pinochet) took hold more and more of what that quote on The National is referring to was stripped away and dismantled simply because it was the responsibility of the State to provide and that flies in the face of the impersonal, uncaring, profit driven ideology that is neoliberalism.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

So you are advocating free university education, student grants, housing benefit to students in the summer? Good man! Where do I put my X?????????

 

Oh, but then Thatcher got rid of all that, brought in the Poll Tax (tested up here first, natch), but I suppose that was Pyrrhic for her...and as her policy of neoliberal economic "reform" (as tested by the fascist Pinochet) took hold more and more of what that quote on The National is referring to was stripped away and dismantled simply because it was the responsibility of the State to provide and that flies in the face of the impersonal, uncaring, profit driven ideology that is neoliberalism.

Yet despite all that, university intake remains ridiculously high. Are you advocating a reduction in student places too?

[jambo1185]

And of course there are a greater proportion of kids going to Uni than ever before in England and in significantly higher numbers than in Scotland.

 

But of course that quote is absolutely meaningless. Every politician would agree with that statement and make that promise. That could easily have come from the mouths of Thatcher, Benn, Miliband, Paisley, Adams, Cameron, Farage or Corbyn.

 

Its about how you deliver and keep your promise that matters.

 

And Sturgeon has been pressured into emergency statement and additional funding for education today. Decent work by both Davidson and Dugdale to keep hounding on the issue in the face of crossed arms and defiance from the government for months and refusal by the Education Secretary to initially countenance that they needed to actually do something about it.

[Boris]

Yet despite all that, university intake remains ridiculously high. Are you advocating a reduction in student places too?

 

No, why would I?  Although, and a slightly different argument, I'd make apprenticeships more academic in places, involving colleges, so that you still get a highly trained but better educated school leaver.  Education isn't all about going to University.

 

What you are beginning to find now, Geoff, is that poorer students (particularly down South admittedly) are opting NOT to go to Uni because it is simply too expensive.  Not just the debt that it saddles them with, but also the cost of living.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/aug/15/soaring-student-rents-college-accommodation-crisis

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

No, why would I? Although, and a slightly different argument, I'd make apprenticeships more academic in places, involving colleges, so that you still get a highly trained but better educated school leaver. Education isn't all about going to University.

 

What you are beginning to find now, Geoff, is that poorer students (particularly down South admittedly) are opting NOT to go to Uni because it is simply too expensive. Not just the debt that it saddles them with, but also the cost of living.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/aug/15/soaring-student-rents-college-accommodation-crisis

Nice deflection Boris, the point being that with around half of those completing A-Levels or Highers going to "Uni" compared to a quarter in your good old days, you've no idea how to pay for all those benefits like grants or housing benefit that you'd like restored.

[Boris]

Nice deflection Boris, the point being that with around half of those completing A-Levels or Highers going to "Uni" compared to a quarter in your good old days, you've no idea how to pay for all those benefits like grants or housing benefit that you'd like restored.

 

My point was that you may not have as many going to Uni, but other forms of further or vocational education, however if someone wishes to go to Uni then there should be a place for them and support should be given.

 

How do we pay for anything?  Perhaps if we tightened up the avoiders and evaders of tax we would recoup ?34bn+

 

That may cover it?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

My point was that you may not have as many going to Uni, but other forms of further or vocational education, however if someone wishes to go to Uni then there should be a place for them and support should be given.

 

How do we pay for anything? Perhaps if we tightened up the avoiders and evaders of tax we would recoup ?34bn+

 

That may cover it?

Of course. Still, it's better than printing it

[Boris]

Of course. Still, it's better than printing it

 

Probably, well, better than printing it, giving it to the banks, and the banks then keeping it.

[jambo1185]

The attainment statistics out today are shameful. Scotland MILES behind other UK countries in access to university for poorest.

 

And Nicola has finally accepted what the Tories have been saying for months and years - we need to accurately and evenly measure attainment across the country.

 

Now deliver please!

[AlphonseCapone]

And of course there are a greater proportion of kids going to Uni than ever before in England and in significantly higher numbers than in Scotland.

 

But of course that quote is absolutely meaningless. Every politician would agree with that statement and make that promise. That could easily have come from the mouths of Thatcher, Benn, Miliband, Paisley, Adams, Cameron, Farage or Corbyn.

 

Its about how you deliver and keep your promise that matters.

 

And Sturgeon has been pressured into emergency statement and additional funding for education today. Decent work by both Davidson and Dugdale to keep hounding on the issue in the face of crossed arms and defiance from the government for months and refusal by the Education Secretary to initially countenance that they needed to actually do something about it.

Why is having a greater proportion of people going to uni necessarily a good thing?

[TheMaganator]

So you are advocating free university education, student grants, housing benefit to students in the summer? Good man! Where do I put my X?????????

 

Oh, but then Thatcher got rid of all that, brought in the Poll Tax (tested up here first, natch), but I suppose that was Pyrrhic for her...and as her policy of neoliberal economic "reform" (as tested by the fascist Pinochet) took hold more and more of what that quote on The National is referring to was stripped away and dismantled simply because it was the responsibility of the State to provide and that flies in the face of the impersonal, uncaring, profit driven ideology that is neoliberalism.

I'm just pointing out that Sturgeon is now championing the 'advantages' she had growing up under Thatcher.

 

Will you be sticking with the SNP if labour elect Corbyn?

[jambo1185]

Why is having a greater proportion of people going to uni necessarily a good thing?

Sorry missed a word in there. Meant greater proportion of kids from poorest backgrounds, not proportion of kids generally

[HaymarketJambo]

Today latest option pole:

 

LibDems 6% - Labour 14% - Conservatives 19% - SNP 50%     

[Thunderstruck]

Embarrassing response.

 

Absolutely obsessed with the SNP.

I'm obliged for your input. I was going for antipathy, distrust and suspicion but, hey-ho, note to self to do better.

 

I take it that criticism is still permissible. If you suggest otherwise, that would be embarrassing.

[HaymarketJambo]

The opinion poll relates to?

 

A ComRes Survey.  

[Boris]

I'm just pointing out that Sturgeon is now championing the 'advantages' she had growing up under Thatcher.

 

Will you be sticking with the SNP if labour elect Corbyn?

 

Advantages Thatcher quickly dismantled!

 

I'll be voting Green in May, truth be told.  

 

I have a lot of time for Corbyn and it's interesting to see how far the narrative has lurched to the right, in that he is portrayed as some sort of hard-lefty.  When you look at some of the things he says, to me at least, they aren't hard left.  But that is the way he has been painted and how the neoliberal "club" will go for him.  At the very least he asks questions about our society and especially our current economic system that should really be taking more flak than it is.

 

Corbyn has also been quiet on constitutional matters, apart from no referendum.  I'd like to have heard a call for (proper) PR at Westminster elections, and elected second chamber (which is perhaps a given) and a federalised UK.  

 

Certainly if I lived in England I'd vote for a Corbyn led Labour Party.

[Boris]

Today latest option pole:

 

LibDems 6% - Labour 14% - Conservatives 19% - SNP 50%     

 

Before the Tories get a stiffy, it should be noted that their share of the vote hasn't really changed.  Lib Dem & Labour support are going over to the SNP.

[aussieh]

Yet despite all that, university intake remains ridiculously high. Are you advocating a reduction in student places too?

People from working class backgrounds are getting ignored, post grad, geoff , no matter how good they are. So whats the point.

[aussieh]

I'm obliged for your input. I was going for antipathy, distrust and suspicion but, hey-ho, note to self to do better.

 

I take it that criticism is still permissible. If you suggest otherwise, that would be embarrassing.

Mandelson, no ,nothing. thought so.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Labour are done if Corbyn wins, not because of him but because of the fact that the entire Labour establishment has opposed him.

 

There's no way they be anything other than trouble for him but the problem is, that will put them at odds with the huge number of grass roots people who look like voting for them. Party will split.

[JamboX2]

https://commonspace.scot/articles/2152/siobhan-tolland-beware-of-the-anti-corbyn-independence-purists

 

Food for thought.

[HaymarketJambo]

No survey for what.

 

I'm assuming it's voting intentions at the next Hollywood election or is it general election or something slightly different.

 

Holyrood.

[Stuart Lyon]

Is the formation of the SIP the start of it?

[Boris]

https://commonspace.scot/articles/2152/siobhan-tolland-beware-of-the-anti-corbyn-independence-purists

 

Food for thought.

 

Not really sure what her issue is?  Is she saying that the SNP is riddled with these "purists"?  Or is she simply saying that they exist?

 

If it's the latter, then I don't doubt that they do, but I'm not sure to what extent they have any influence (none as she would seem to conclude herself).

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

People from working class backgrounds are getting ignored, post grad, geoff , no matter how good they are. So whats the point.

 

Indeed. Why so many places? A bigger issue than student debt.

[ToadKiller Dog]

Not really sure what her issue is? Is she saying that the SNP is riddled with these "purists"? Or is she simply saying that they exist?

 

If it's the latter, then I don't doubt that they do, but I'm not sure to what extent they have any influence (none as she would seem to conclude herself).

Ex labour supporter Dan Hodges who calls himself a Neo Bliarite saying much the same about Corbyn supporters in a nasty wee bit in the Torygraph

Desperate form of attack by the worried

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11808433/Why-are-Labour-Party-members-putting-up-with-the-Corbyn-cultists-claptrap.html

[aussieh]

Indeed. Why so many places? A bigger issue than student debt.

Too many worthless degrees, prob designed to lower unemployment figures and inclusive tactics.

High apprenticeship number required, as the lack of labour skills is getting tragic.

Uni is for future professionals, not time wasters.

[Boris]

Ex labour supporter Dan Hodges who calls himself a Neo Bliarite saying much the same about Corbyn supporters in a nasty wee bit in the Torygraph

Desperate form of attack by the worried

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11808433/Why-are-Labour-Party-members-putting-up-with-the-Corbyn-cultists-claptrap.html

A singular failure to analyse why grass roots members are swaying toward Corbyn. Not all of his support can cone from entryists etc. In doing so he is as guilty of the same pomposity he charges Corbyn with.

[jambo1185]

Boris I agree I thought Corbyn would be championing Lords reform in particular. Surprised that hasnt featured unless ive missed it.

[TheMaganator]

Report shows Scotland by far the worst in UK at getting poorest pupils to university

http://www.scottishconservatives.com/2015/08/report-shows-scotland-by-far-the-worst-in-uk-at-getting-poorest-pupils-to-university/

 

Free tuition fees disproportionately benefit the wealthiest in Scotland. 

 

The SNP are failing the poorest children in Scotland. 

[Hasselhoff]

Report shows Scotland by far the worst in UK at getting poorest pupils to university

http://www.scottishconservatives.com/2015/08/report-shows-scotland-by-far-the-worst-in-uk-at-getting-poorest-pupils-to-university/

 

Free tuition fees disproportionately benefit the wealthiest in Scotland.

 

The SNP are failing the poorest children in Scotland.

Cue typical response from the Nats:

 

More SNP bad

 

It's on a tories website, they would say that. When I read it in the national or on Wings, I will believe it.

[aussieh]

Cue typical response from the Nats:

 

More SNP bad

 

It's on a tories website, they would say that. When I read it in the national or on Wings, I will believe it.

Dont have to, you just did.

Cheers.

Cue the usual unionist crew.

[Hasselhoff]

Dont have to, you just did.

Cheers.

Cue the usual unionist crew.

Seriously though, what do you make of the report? Do you genuinely not believe it or do you just accept that SNP aren't that great but they are the only show in town to give you independence so they will have to do?

[JAYEL]

What does Ruth Davidson do ?

[aussieh]

Seriously though, what do you make of the report? Do you genuinely not believe it or do you just accept that SNP aren't that great but they are the only show in town to give you independence so they will have to do?

I dont open links from the poster.

[Hasselhoff]

What does Ruth Davidson do ?

Not sure who that question is aimed at but could you be more specific?

[aussieh]

What does Ruth Davidson do ?

Haunt hooses

[JAYEL]

Haunt hooses

 

 

Got a job for you Aussie........

 

 

http://www.snp.org/vacancies-and-internships/2015/head-communications-and-research-snp-parliamentary-msp-group

 

 

 

[Stuart Lyon]

Sadly for Aussieh there is no mention of bullshit needed for the job or is that taken as read?

[TheMaganator]

Seriously though, what do you make of the report? Do you genuinely not believe it or do you just accept that SNP aren't that great but they are the only show in town to give you independence so they will have to do?

He's a loyal soldier so doesn't read any biased sources - only the National and Wings.

 

You'll notice that the SNP fanboys have just deflected rather than address the fact that their beloved party is failing Scotland's poorest kids. I think the reality is that they don't care - independence is the prize.

[Cade]

IDS lying through his teeth yet again

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/aug/18/dwp-admits-making-up-positive-quotes-from-benefits-claimants-for-leaflet


 

[ToadKiller Dog]

IDS lying through his teeth yet again

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/aug/18/dwp-admits-making-up-positive-quotes-from-benefits-claimants-for-leaflet

 

Should be sacked for that , but he won't be .

 

 

[Hasselhoff]

IDS lying through his teeth yet again

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/aug/18/dwp-admits-making-up-positive-quotes-from-benefits-claimants-for-leaflet

 

 

 

They have to be desperate to find fault in this. The fact they reused an image used in other material shows they didn't deliberately try and fool anyone. When I go to a website and see a picture of a guy with headset on, looking like he's ready to take my call, I wouldn't be shocked to learn that he is most likely from a stock photo collection and doesn't actually work for the company.

 

Wings over Scotland brought up the same kind of arguments during indyref and it is really scraping the barrel for things to be aggrieved about.

[Boris]

Report shows Scotland by far the worst in UK at getting poorest pupils to university

http://www.scottishconservatives.com/2015/08/report-shows-scotland-by-far-the-worst-in-uk-at-getting-poorest-pupils-to-university/

 

Free tuition fees disproportionately benefit the wealthiest in Scotland. 

 

The SNP are failing the poorest children in Scotland.

 

The report shows that Scotland falls behind England in all quartiles. So whilst not dismissing the very low rate at quartile one, it seems that Scotland lags in all areas.

 

Now, the stats may tell us something but I think we need to work out why students aren't making that move from secondary to higher education. Is it simply that exam results aren't good enough? Maybe, I don't know. If it is, then secondary education needs looked at. Yet it can't be looked at in isolation. Poverty, housing, employment of parents and even parental responsibility must all have an influence.

 

Working in HE, I deal with students coming in from various articulation routes, direct entries from colleges for example, something my institution has a pretty good record on.

 

Could it be that the financial strain on being a student puts people off? Despite tuition fees? Do some prefer to go into employment and earn from the off? I don't know. And I'm certainly not sticking up for the government, but I suspect were we to adopt the model used in England, we would see less and less students from the lower quartiles applying. Anecdotally, this is what I'm hearing from colleagues down South.

 

Education is one of the, if not the, most important ministries of government. It shapes individuals but also our society as a whole. Commoditising it is not, IMO, the answer.

 

As for the argument that the wealthy benefit from it, well the answer is simple (or perhaps simplistic!). Instead of charging fees, increase tax and funnel that money into education. The wealthiest then don't "benefit".

[JAYEL]

Another No voter heading to the House of Lords

 

http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/13609447.Mone_attacked_by_experts_for_selling__useless__slimming_pills/?ref=mr&lp=1#comments

 

 

Be careful if you leave any comments

 

[aussieh]

Got a job for you Aussie........

 

 

http://www.snp.org/vacancies-and-internships/2015/head-communications-and-research-snp-parliamentary-msp-group

 

 

 

Over qualified, sadly.

[aussieh]

Sadly for Aussieh there is no mention of bullshit needed for the job or is that taken as read?

Pat

[jambos are go!]

The report shows that Scotland falls behind England in all quartiles. So whilst not dismissing the very low rate at quartile one, it seems that Scotland lags in all areas.

 

Now, the stats may tell us something but I think we need to work out why students aren't making that move from secondary to higher education. Is it simply that exam results aren't good enough? Maybe, I don't know. If it is, then secondary education needs looked at. Yet it can't be looked at in isolation. Poverty, housing, employment of parents and even parental responsibility must all have an influence.

 

Working in HE, I deal with students coming in from various articulation routes, direct entries from colleges for example, something my institution has a pretty good record on.

 

Could it be that the financial strain on being a student puts people off? Despite tuition fees? Do some prefer to go into employment and earn from the off? I don't know. And I'm certainly not sticking up for the government, but I suspect were we to adopt the model used in England, we would see less and less students from the lower quartiles applying. Anecdotally, this is what I'm hearing from colleagues down South.

 

Education is one of the, if not the, most important ministries of government. It shapes individuals but also our society as a whole. Commoditising it is not, IMO, the answer.

 

As for the argument that the wealthy benefit from it, well the answer is simple (or perhaps simplistic!). Instead of charging fees, increase tax and funnel that money into education. The wealthiest then don't "benefit".

Do you think that the SNP getting rid of around 150,000 places in colleges might be an important factor?