The 2015 General Election Megathread

[Boab]

Oh, I should have mentioned...I'm not debating this particular issue.

No point as I'm not changing my description of him.

[maroonlegions]

MPs don't award their own pay rises and independent panel assess what MPs get paid.

For all the intrusion, uncertainty and responsibility ?67k doesn't seem enough compared to other careers that are available.

 

Might not award their own pay rises but grab it with both hands while the least well off get royaly fecked wih austerty cuts, aye , demoracy in its finest and fairness right enough. Independent panel made of their own kind or links to them no doubt.  lol; Would you include nurses and firemen in your "other careers that are available" or any other worth while job for that matter.

 

Then there's their expenses, that's were  some of the uncertainty manifests from and  from a public perception of them they are the least responsible and will again  cut public services , pay and welfare spending even more for those that need it most, is it not their responsibility to actually care about the masses of  people in low paid jobs and in poverty, let then take a brunt of the austerity cuts. lol ;

[maroonlegions]

Either way it is a bollocks answer as I am sure anyone could live on ?53 a week for one or two weeks, but could you sustain it for any length of time and without the safety of knowing you are returning to your old lifestyle whenever you want to.  It all just plays to the myth that there are millions of folk out there playing the system and sitting on their arses spending our money on sky tv, fags and booze. 

 

Are you seriously saying that MPs are not still abusing their expenses, multinationals avoiding paying tax?? yes there are spongers out there but not all of them that are on welfare are.Anyone could live on ?53 a week , you are taking the "living" thing a bit far, you could just about exist, maybe, but live as in "living" , well what kind of "living" could you do on ?53 a week??

[TheMaganator]

Duncan Smith once Claimed ?39 for a Breakfast off the tax payer and lives rent free in a ?2m country house .

 

Should mention his claim was rejected it included a cocktail for ?9

Angus Robertson SNP MP claimed ?20 for a corkscrew as well as ?1,119 for a TV, ?400 for a home cinema system and a whopping ?2,324 for a sofa bed. 

 

MPs of all parties have had their noses in the trough. 

[ToadKiller Dog]

Angus Robertson SNP MP claimed ?20 for a corkscrew as well as ?1,119 for a TV, ?400 for a home cinema system and a whopping ?2,324 for a sofa bed.

 

MPs of all parties have had their noses in the trough.

Angus Robertson never introduced the bedroom tax .

[TheMaganator]

Angus Robertson never introduced the bedroom tax .

So what?

 

According to Wiki he did, do we really know if he did? Clearly he saved the country money by getting a place without a bedroom, that's why he needed a sofa bed, for that we should all thank him,

Erm, ok then (but ?2,300 though?!)

 

?20 for a cork screw? ?1,200 for a fancy TV and ?400 for speakers for it...

 

Can you not just admit he had his nose in the trough?

[jambos are go!]

A decade ago our medical graduates were not emigrating in droves to Australasia for better pay and conditions.

A decade ago the gender mix at medical school was male > female

now it has reversed and the female Dr's tend to go part time, so you need to train 2 Dr's per full time post instead of 1.

Increased supply in health causes increased demand- any new appt's will be filled, with no appreciable decrease in normal hours workload

So if medical graduates are emigrating in droves then there are potential recruits out there!

[Mr Brightside]

Might not award their own pay rises but grab it with both hands while the least well off get royaly fecked wih austerty cuts, aye , demoracy in its finest and fairness right enough. Independent panel made of their own kind or links to them no doubt. lol; Would you include nurses and firemen in your "other careers that are available" or any other worth while job for that matter.

 

Then there's their expenses, that's were some of the uncertainty manifests from and from a public perception of them they are the least responsible and will again cut public services , pay and welfare spending even more for those that need it most, is it not their responsibility to actually care about the masses of people in low paid jobs and in poverty, let then take a brunt of the austerity cuts. lol ;

If there was a shortage of people wanting to become nurses and firemen the wages for these jobs would have to go up. Any vacancies in the fire service are certainly oversubscribed.

I think the pay for an MP is about right, what do you think they should be paid?

Some MPs royally took the piss out of the expenses system previously but fortunately most of loopholes have now been closed.

[doctor jambo]

So if medical graduates are emigrating in droves then there are potential recruits out there!

It is telling that net migration of Dr's from the EU into the UK is negligible.

As is immigration from Canada, Australasia and so on and so forth.

Our graduates leave

What does that tell us?

The NHS is increasingly held together by third world Dr's - and I'm not sure that morally we should be poaching those

[jambo1185]

DJ why do they leave? Better pay, better working conditions?

[doctor jambo]

DJ why do they leave? Better pay, better working conditions?

Both-

however more telling is that we cannot attract Dr's from Poland/Lithuania/Greece and so on and so forth. there's the odd one, but you would have expected more.

For all the abuse we get in the press about "greedy" and so on this cannot be the case, as most of our Dr's are from India

[aussieh]

National Service?.

Im all for it, loads of benefits.

A good solution for youth unemployment.

Thoughts.

[doctor jambo]

National Service?.

Im all for it, loads of benefits.

A good solution for youth unemployment.

Thoughts.

Entirely in keeping with the SNP vision of oppressive state regimes, I mean , free country.

Armed police, state guardians, national service, suppression of dissent from their own MP's.

FREEEEEDOOOOOM

[TheMaganator]

National Service?.

Im all for it, loads of benefits.

A good solution for youth unemployment.

Thoughts.

I think you would benefit from a bit of national service, Aussieh. 

 

It would instill a bit of much-needed discipline. 

[aussieh]

I think you would benefit from a bit of national service, Aussieh.

 

It would instill a bit of much-needed discipline.

Coming fae the likes of you, thats a joke, youd greet if you broke a nail, or they banned you from facebook where you get all your propaganda bullshit.

[aussieh]

Entirely in keeping with the SNP vision of oppressive state regimes, I mean , free country.

Armed police, state guardians, national service, suppression of dissent from their own MP's.

FREEEEEDOOOOOM

Aww the wee doctor, you might get to give people drugs they dont need, so you make a killing.

[TheMaganator]

According to Wiki he did, do we really know if he did? Clearly he saved the country money by getting a place without a bedroom, that's why he needed a sofa bed, for that we should all thank him,

I found a wee article for you on the subject. 

 

"In 2005, on the last day of the financial year, Mr Robertson spent ?526 on bed linen and ?183 on a rug at the John Lewis in Edinburgh."

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5314297/SNPs-Angus-Robertson-claims-80000-for-second-home-MPs-expenses.html?fb_ref=Default

[maroonlegions]

If there was a shortage of people wanting to become nurses and firemen the wages for these jobs would have to go up. Any vacancies in the fire service are certainly oversubscribed.

I think the pay for an MP is about right, what do you think they should be paid?

Some MPs royally took the piss out of the expenses system previously but fortunately most of loopholes have now been closed.

 

Nothing to do with shortages, the reason a mentioned nurses and firemen was based on the money they earn now, the job they do now, i am not buying that any loopholes that may have been closed are effective enough, tax avoidance by the super rich and some multinationals are done through loopholes and that's were my suspicions manifest from.

 

How many MPs and backbenchers have links, shares or direct financial investments to some multinationals?? My opinion and my view  is that the real dealings or party manifestos are in some way manipulated or indirectly influenced by  the corporate elite. Is  modern day politics and high ranking political leaders being  influenced by the so called corporate elite and big business , that is  are they serving the self interests of not the public but the corporations, would not rule it out.

 Auserty is one big con.

 

This man touched upon it even if it was not directly linked to my points above. Cameron's ex -number 10  policy strategist  Steve Hilton warns of a crisis in Britain's political system, he touches on  a serious point  that we are in reality ruled by a "cosy elite" , an elite that is more likely to listen and pay attention to the concerns of the wealthy in which some of this political elite  will have possible financial interests or investments in. If people like Steve Hilton are voicing these kind of concerns about a cosy political  elite  it begs the question if they do formulate some of their political policies and manifestos at these parties. lol.

 

 

 

 Snippet from link source;

 

 David Cameron?s former chief strategist has launched a stinging attack on the ?insular ruling class? threatening Britain?s democracy.

 

"Steve Hilton said too many of those at the heart of government go to the same dinner parties and send their children to the same schools.

He said the UK?s political system is now in ?crisis? because the same type of people stay in charge whatever the outcome of the elections.

In what will be seen as a criticism of the ?chumocracy? of his former boss, Mr Hilton warned: ?Our democracies are increasingly captured by a ruling class that seeks to perpetuate its privileges.

?Regardless of who?s in office, the same people are in power."  

 

link; http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3085342/Stop-listening-insular-ruling-elite-help-poor-Cameron-s-ex-guru-Steve-Hilton-warns-Tory-PM.html#ixzz3aTQg02SH

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2015 by maroonlegions

[TheMaganator]

Coming fae the likes of you, thats a joke, youd greet if you broke a nail, or they banned you from facebook where you get all your propaganda bullshit.

I was in the army cadets at school and the naval cadets at university, Aussie. 

 

I am an all-action hunk. 

 

You'll be half-way there with all of the marching you do at those freedom rallies.  

[pablo]

I love how when discussing salary in the public sector, everyone is a nurse , a teacher or Firemen. Never ever some ineffective under performing manager on a cushy number.

[Thunderstruck]

National Service?.

Im all for it, loads of benefits.

A good solution for youth unemployment.

Thoughts.

I know you are unlikely to be serious but a genuine question is how many would be physically or emotionally ready for military service - standards are quite high these days. The numbers that fail the tests are depressingly high.

 

Mind you, the Submarine Flotilla seems now to have ABs who are "highly skilled nuclear engineers" (according to the weekend press).

[aussieh]

I was in the army cadets at school and the naval cadets at university, Aussie.

 

I am an all-action hunk.

 

You'll be half-way there with all of the marching you do at those freedom rallies.

I was a resident at penicuik for a couple of weeks, would have joined, until oath time. No chance.

[Mr Brightside]

Nothing to do with shortages, the reason a mentioned nurses and firemen was based on the money they earn now, the job they do now, i am not buying that any loopholes that may have been closed are effective enough, tax avoidance by the super rich and some multinationals are done through loopholes and that's were my suspicions manifest from.

 

How many MPs and backbenchers have links, shares or direct financial investments to some multinationals?? My opinion and my view is that the real dealings or party manifestos are in some way manipulated or indirectly influenced by the corporate elite. Is modern day politics and high ranking political leaders being influenced by the so called corporate elite and big business , that is are they serving the self interests of not the public but the corporations, would not rule it out.

Auserty is one big con.

 

This man touched upon it even if it was not directly linked to my points above. Cameron's ex -number 10 policy strategist Steve Hilton warns of a crisis in Britain's political system, he touches on a serious point that we are in reality ruled by a "cosy elite" , an elite that is more likely to listen and pay attention to the concerns of the wealthy in which some of this political elite will have possible financial interests or investments in. If people like Steve Hilton are voicing these kind of concerns about a cosy political elite it begs the question if they do formulate some of their political policies and manifestos at these parties. lol.

 

 

 

Snippet from link source;

 

David Cameron?s former chief strategist has launched a stinging attack on the ?insular ruling class? threatening Britain?s democracy.

"Steve Hilton said too many of those at the heart of government go to the same dinner parties and send their children to the same schools.

He said the UK?s political system is now in ?crisis? because the same type of people stay in charge whatever the outcome of the elections.

In what will be seen as a criticism of the ?chumocracy? of his former boss, Mr Hilton warned: ?Our democracies are increasingly captured by a ruling class that seeks to perpetuate its privileges.

?Regardless of who?s in office, the same people are in power."

link; http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3085342/Stop-listening-insular-ruling-elite-help-poor-Cameron-s-ex-guru-Steve-Hilton-warns-Tory-PM.html#ixzz3aTQg02SH

 

 

Most of that post is unsubstantiated opinion and of little relevance to the level of an MPs salary. Again I will ask the simple question of what do you think an MP should be paid?

Nurses and firemen earn what the market dictates, like I said for firemen any vacancy is massively oversubscribed so people want to do that job for the current pay.

Why is there no SNP politician in your picture?

[Maple Leaf]

National Service?.

Im all for it, loads of benefits.

A good solution for youth unemployment.

Thoughts.

 

I did it.  Two years of my life wasted.

 

I wouldn't recommend it.

[JamboX2]

Angus Robertson never introduced the bedroom tax .

So if IDS hadn't introduced the bedroom tax it'd be ok?

[djf]

3971 people applied for 650 jobs in May and that was after paying a fee to interview. This suggests that MPs salaries are too high and should be lowered. God bless the all knowing market. Am I doing this right?

Edited May 18, 2015 by djf

[djf]

Brian Dundas hit the nail on the head earlier. I slept in a door way once for charity but this in no way suggests I am capable of being homeless any more than IDS shopping late at Aldi for a week suggests he could live reliant on the current British welfare system.

[Mikey1874]

National Service?.

Im all for it, loads of benefits.

A good solution for youth unemployment.

Thoughts.

the posh royal lad that said it you mean

 

yes loads of money, unlimited opportunities, protection and support, some discipline, meet different people

 

sounds okay except army etc too under resourced to support it and certainly don't want it

 

he is onto something but plenty more ways to give young people opportunities to give themselves focus, direction and fulfilling activities

[Mr Brightside]

3971 people applied for 650 jobs in May and that was after paying a fee to interview. This suggests that MPs salaries are too high and should be lowered. God bless the all knowing market. Am I doing this right?

Six applications per position is a pretty low ratio.

I am maybe being a bit idealistic but I want the HoC to be filled with dynamic intelligent people regardless of which party they represent working to make the country as successful as possible. To get these people you need to offer a competitive salary.

Not suggesting this is what we have at the moment or ever will have, but by offering a reasonable salary there is a greater chance of attracting better candidates.

[TheMaganator]

Brian Dundas hit the nail on the head earlier. I slept in a door way once for charity but this in no way suggests I am capable of being homeless any more than IDS shopping late at Aldi for a week suggests he could live reliant on the current British welfare system.

I asked the question - did he just come out and say it, or was he asked the question?

 

Because if it was the latter what was he meant to say?

 

Anyway - what's the ?53 for? If it's just for food and general day-to-day expenses I could do it, I reckon

[TheMaganator]

Six applications per position is a pretty low ratio.

I am maybe being a bit idealistic but I want the HoC to be filled with dynamic intelligent people regardless of which party they represent working to make the country as successful as possible. To get these people you need to offer a competitive salary.

Not suggesting this is what we have at the moment or ever will have, but by offering a reasonable salary there is a greater chance of attracting better candidates.

This in spades

[djf]

Six applications per position is a pretty low ratio.

I am maybe being a bit idealistic but I want the HoC to be filled with dynamic intelligent people regardless of which party they represent working to make the country as successful as possible. To get these people you need to offer a competitive salary.

Not suggesting this is what we have at the moment or ever will have, but by offering a reasonable salary there is a greater chance of attracting better candidates.

I don't necessarily disagree but it's the environment in which the debate has taken place that people will find difficult to stomach.

 

I'm not sure MPs motivation is as closely linked to salary as that. Even if we suppose that it is, and that it is a good thing we should be aiming for, doubling or trebling the salary is not going to be enough to attract those that are considered the cream of the business world so what good is another 20k on top going to do? Being an MP has far more attractive benefits than the take-home which will continue to motivate plenty of qualified and worthy candidates to campaign.

[jack D and coke]

Since when has ?70k plus very generous expenses not been seen as a reasonable or competitive salary? And for doing what exactly?

How many of them are doing productive days and weeks? Not that many id wager. It's a gravy train IMO and I include all parties in that.

 

They'd get less if I had anything to do with it.

[TheMaganator]

Since when has ?70k plus very generous expenses not been seen as a reasonable or competitive salary? And for doing what exactly?

How many of them are doing productive days and weeks? Not that many id wager. It's a gravy train IMO and I include all parties in that.

 

They'd get less if I had anything to do with it.

Trainee lawyers earn that in London.

 

People in finance up and down the country will earn much more than that.

 

GPs will make more than that.

 

Considering we're looking for the brightest, most driven, intelligent and talented people it's not very competitive.

 

These guys are making the law, remember. We want people at the top of their game and to attract that type of person we should be paying more.

[Mr Brightside]

I don't necessarily disagree but it's the environment in which the debate has taken place that people will find difficult to stomach.

 

I'm not sure MPs motivation is as closely linked to salary as that. Even if we suppose that it is, and that it is a good thing we should be aiming for, doubling or trebling the salary is not going to be enough to attract those that are considered the cream of the business world so what good is another 20k on top going to do? Being an MP has far more attractive benefits than the take-home which will continue to motivate plenty of qualified and worthy candidates to campaign.

Pretty much agree with your post. What I would say is that I think the current salary is about right, I certainly don't think it should be cut.

 

The risk of having it too low say ?35-?40k is that you could lose ambitious people from less wealthy backgrounds and be left with a combination of people with inherited wealth and a less skilled level of candidate who can't get a career that pays a salary of say ?35-40k and are only in it for the money.

[Cade]

We paid bankers tens of millions as they were supposed to be the best and brightest.

 

They bankrupted the entire world.

 

Your argument is invalid.

[Arnold Rothstein]

We paid bankers tens of millions as they were supposed to be the best and brightest.

 

They bankrupted the entire world.

 

Your argument is invalid.

 

So you dispute that higher salaries attract better candidates?

[TheMaganator]

We paid bankers tens of millions as they were supposed to be the best and brightest.

 

They bankrupted the entire world.

 

Your argument is invalid.

[Boris]

So you dispute that higher salaries attract better candidates?

I'd rather my politicians were standing out of conviction to their beliefs, rather than as a seeing at as a well paid job.

[Arnold Rothstein]

I'd rather my politicians were standing out of conviction to their beliefs, rather than as a seeing at as a well paid job.

 

As i'm sure we all would but that's not reality in the main.

[Boris]

Not really, the point is that a high salary doesn't necessarily equate to competence.

[Boris]

As i'm sure we all would but that's not reality in the main.

So you'd prefer people chasing the money than believing in their views?

[Arnold Rothstein]

So you'd prefer people chasing the money than believing in their views?

 

Where did i say that?

 

 

All i am saying is that's the reality of where we are; it's in no way my preference.

[Boris]

Where did i say that?

 

 

All i am saying is that's the reality of where we are; it's in no way my preference.

Sorry, my point was that throwing money at it isn't the answer.

[jack D and coke]

Trainee lawyers earn that in London.

 

People in finance up and down the country will earn much more than that.

 

GPs will make more than that.

 

Considering we're looking for the brightest, most driven, intelligent and talented people it's not very competitive.

 

These guys are making the law, remember. We want people at the top of their game and to attract that type of person we should be paying more.

Yeah I appreciate that but what are you suggesting? Should we pay ?1m salaries to MP's? Do you think that salary would attract better or more qualified persons? Wouldn't that take them even further away from the people they're meant to be serving?

 

Every single MP becomes a millionaire? For doing what exactly? Tell me what they do to justify these salaries? I don't think a lot of them earn what they get at the moment frankly.

[ToadKiller Dog]

So if IDS hadn't introduced the bedroom tax it'd be ok?

Not the point the point was about Duncan Smiths claim he could live off ?53 , yet he tried to claim ?39 for a breakfast more than a person on ?53s food budget for a fortnight .

What Robertson claimed is irrelevant to that point

[jack D and coke]

You could barely make do on ?53 a week if you lived in a cardboard box.

 

Along with Gideon, Duncan Smith is my most despised politician. An odious, lying little wank.

[JamboX2]

So you'd prefer people chasing the money than believing in their views?

I think we've got to remember that an MP's salary invariably will have to cover costs of running a constituency office and paying a local staff. That is topped up by a mix of party short money and expenses but is generally paid out of their salary.

 

Its overly simplistic to say they're paid too much when that salary supports others.

 

It is also a hard job and one that attracts a lot of ex-professionals. So the pay will be comparable with lawyers and accountants of a certain qualification.

[TheMaganator]

Not really, the point is that a high salary doesn't necessarily equate to competence.

I know it doesn't necessarily mean that.

 

But if you were a lawyer at the top of your game who also had an interest in going into politics you'd have to take a massive pay cut to do it.

 

It's not just the pay. It's giving away of your privacy and putting everything you do and have done under scrutiny. For ?70k?

[TheMaganator]

Not the point the point was about Duncan Smiths claim he could live off ?53 , yet he tried to claim ?39 for a breakfast more than a person on ?53s food budget for a fortnight .

What Robertson claimed is irrelevant to that point

What does ?39 for breakfast have to do with the fact that he said he could live on ?53 per week?

 

If we only had ?53 for a week he wouldn't be spending ?39 of it on breakfast.

 

Can you agree that Robertson had his nose in the trough?