Charlie-Brown Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 The only way to deal with it is to ignore it or sweep it under the carpet or pretend that celtic are somehow just as bad because the reality is that the perpetrators are ***** who over a long period of time seem incapable of behaving any other way........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therapist Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Jambos singing anti-Hibee songs ...that would tarnish our reputation and get us in trouble with the governing bodies. What ones are those then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 I most certainly would have an issue with Jambos singing anti-Hibee songs if they were the type that would tarnish our reputation and get us in trouble with the governing bodies. Without a shadow of a doubt. I'm surprised you even asked to be honest. You wouldn't have an issue with it? That wasn't your point. Your point was re. singing songs about your rivals when they were not around to hear them. The content of those songs was not the question. But hey if you want to add it now to avoid having to admit I have made a decent point then feel free. PS. Of course I would have a problem with the scenario you mention above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Much was made earlier in this forum of celtic merely having "won the PR war". That may well be the case but it hardly relects well on rangers being unable to achieve a similar outcome. Why exactly is it that they couldn't have won the PR war ? What was holding them back from doing that ? What was stopping them from becoming the cheeky gallous cuddly glaswegians that the media spent all week trying to display them as ? When push came to shove, a sizeable minority disgraced this country by engaging in pitch battles with police. An even larger proportion just "enjoyed themselves" down there by singing songs of hate and setting an ugly belligerent mood in the city that was hosting them. It's THIS WEEKS incidents that are at the heart of the debate - and why it is that rangers seem so unwilling or unable to confront their own problem. Attempting to obfuscate the issue by saying "celtic are the same" is a sham argument. As this week clearly showed - like it or not - celtic are NOT the same...and if thats down to them observing their own plastic-paddy-oirishness and leaving the intimidation and street-warfare to their glasgow neighbours ... well it seems rangers positively revel in being the bad-boys out of the two teams. Manchester 2008, Pamplona 2007, Viilareal 2006..Barcelona 1972. They seem incapable of changing their ways and nobody at rangers, the SFA (still silent) or UEFA seems to have any way to deal with it accordingly. Don't disagree with most of that. However I do think Celtic are pretty much the same. They may not be up there on the 'riot' scales but when it comes to everything else they are just as disgusting. Same **** different dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 What ones are those then? Haven't a clue. You know any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Busby ! Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 mod delete. Perhaps rangers being involved in battles with police in Manchester, Pamplona and Villareal is bad for PR. Perhaps celtic not being involved in battles in Seville, Lisbon and Barcelona is good for PR. That pesky heavy handed policing eh...rangers are always in the wrong time at the wrong place. Unlucky. Or the scottish media just don't report celtic street pitched warfare when they go abroad, I 'spose that could account for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 That wasn't your point. Your point was re. singing songs about your rivals when they were not around to hear them. The content of those songs was not the question. But hey if you want to add it now to avoid having to admit I have made a decent point then feel free. PS. Of course I would have a problem with the scenario you mention above. Correct, it wasn't my point. It was yours. We're talking about Rangers fans in Manchester singing songs designed to wind up the Tims, most of which are likely to be frowned upon by the authorities for their controversial content. If you then ask me whether I would have a problem with Hearts fans doing the same thing, I obviously assumed you were referring to the same type of song. You can't just move the goalposts because my answer didn't suit your line of argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Rangers are the only club who had an official policy on what race or religion of player would be allowed to play for them. The BNP, National Front and Rangers fans all use the union jack as a symbol of their belief in that kind of policy. The same does not apply to Celtic and their fans. Granted, Celtic fans are every bit as ****my as Rangers fans, which is mostly due to social conditions in Glasgow, but their ****miness was not encouraged by the official policy of the club for almost 60 years, nor is it enhanced by the menatlity imprinted on them by their favourite institution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Merse Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 What a lovely bunch. http://www.phoenixcsc.com/image/tosser/rangers_nazi_salute_israel_2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therapist Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Or the scottish media just don't report celtic street pitched warfare when they go abroad, I 'spose that could account for it. Sellik's indiscretions - such as the murder in Amsterdam, having a flight make an emergency diversion, and their recent visit to Newcastle - gets nothing like the coverage it should. Incidentally, I've just read the Scotland on Sunday and a senior Strathclyde Police officer puts the blame for Wednesday's events fairly and squarely on the organisers and GMP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therapist Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Rangers are the only club who had an official policy on what race would be allowed to play for them. Can you provide evidence of this? To put it bluntly, I think you are lying. I'd agree Rangers FC had a policy regarding which religions they'd sign. However, ra sellik did not put Jock Stein on the board because he was not "sellik minded". Instead they offered him the plum job as head of sellik pools. Why do you think this was? Take your time...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkfish1979 Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Incidentally, I've just read the Scotland on Sunday and a senior Strathclyde Police officer puts the blame for Wedenesday's events fairly and squarely on the organisers and GMP. Given their reputation amongst the other police forces, that was probably a given, tbh. If you want to believe that the rioters were a nice, upstanding bunch of people given a hard time by those mean old boys in blue, and that they were justified in spitting the dummy because their telly broke, go right ahead. I'm with the bunch that labels them as subhuman bellycrawlers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Dover Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Sellik's indiscretions - such as the murder in Amsterdam, having a flight make an emergency diversion, and their recent visit to Newcastle - gets nothing like the coverage it should. Incidentally, I've just read the Scotland on Sunday and a senior Strathclyde Police officer puts the blame for Wedenesday's events fairly and squarely on the organisers and GMP. Well you've kinda got us there I have to admit..............cos if any ^^^^ knows his stuff about heavy handed policing it will be that weegie **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboSean Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 What a lovely bunch. http://www.phoenixcsc.com/image/tosser/rangers_nazi_salute_israel_2.jpg Red Hand of Ulster, what's wrong with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Busby ! Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Sellik's indiscretions - such as the murder in Amsterdam, having a flight make an emergency diversion, and their recent visit to Newcastle - gets nothing like the coverage it should. Incidentally, I've just read the Scotland on Sunday and a senior Strathclyde Police officer puts the blame for Wednesday's events fairly and squarely on the organisers and GMP. Murder ? Eh no... "Celtic fan Rodden made headlines in 2001 when he survived a shooting in an Amsterdam bar before a European match.". http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4277811.stm ...it was a gangland turf war. The guy was a bad 'un but thats hardly a "celtic indiscretion" ? Unless theres another Celtic-Amsterdam murder that you can point me to ? The latter two celtic incidents you describe got plenty coverage, I'm well aware of them. They're typical of the mindlessness run-of-the-mill mayhem that accompanies both old-firm teams wherever they go. Rangers however seem to have the extra gear in terms of how far they can take things on their travels. Manchester 2008, Pamplona 2007 and Villareal 2006 are all examples where rangers have created trouble on a different scale. I can only assume that the culprits are immensely proud of this achievement, it certainly puts celtic firmly in 2nd place. Were they all "supporters not associated with the club" in the words of Mr Bain ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny Crane Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Red Hand of Ulster, what's wrong with that? Come on - that's a Nazi salute and you know it. No matter how much you try and dress it up. Either those Rangers fans are too stupid to work out that salute's more sinister connotation or they really are little more than odious filth who choose to throw up the convenient red hand smokescreen lest it reveal their true beliefs! Mind, can anyone supply any Youtube footage of Hitler whipping out a flute and Goebbels striking up a lambeg drum (complete with bowler hat, orange sash and silly white gloves) and incite the Nurnberg masses to march down the Garvaghy Road)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Baldmans Comb Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 This country if not the world would be far better place if 'Scotland's Shame' didn't exist. A very significant minority are vile, disgusting creatures stuck in a primitive timewarp of a sick world where you justify your own existence by hating anyone you perceive to be different from you. Hence the hate list starts at Kafflicks,Papes and Taigs, moves on to Blacks, Immigrants and Asylum Seekers and includes almost everyone else from Scottish Nats, Irish people and Germans to in fact almost everyone from the continent of Europe and even bizarrely the Palestinians. The problem is if 'Scotland's Shame' didin't exist then where do they go and reading below the surface of some of the posts here I shudder to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 This country if not the world would be far better place if 'Scotland's Shame' didn't exist. A very significant minority are vile, disgusting creatures stuck in a primitive timewarp of a sick world where you justify your own existence by hating anyone you perceive to be different from you. Hence the hate list starts at Kafflicks,Papes and Taigs, moves on to Blacks, Immigrants and Asylum Seekers and includes almost everyone else from Scottish Nats, Irish people and Germans to in fact almost everyone from the continent of Europe and even bizarrely the Palestinians. The problem is if 'Scotland's Shame' didin't exist then where do they go and reading below the surface of some of the posts here I shudder to think. It's a sad world they inhabit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboSean Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Come on - that's a Nazi salute and you know it. No matter how much you try and dress it up. Either those Rangers fans are too stupid to work out that salute's more sinister connotation or they really are little more than odious filth who choose to throw up the convenient red hand smokescreen lest it reveal their true beliefs! Mind, can anyone supply any Youtube footage of Hitler whipping out a flute and Goebbels striking up a lambeg drum (complete with bowler hat, orange sash and silly white gloves) and incite the Nurnberg masses to march down the Garvaghy Road)? It's a Red Hand salute. You know fine well it is. Why would Rangers fans be giving it Nazi salutes while there is an Israeli flag in the crowd? Plus, when thinking of Rangers hardly inspires thoughts of Nazi Germany, does it? Rangers fans are simple, but they're not that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupid Sexy Flanders Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 It's a Red Hand salute. You know fine well it is. Why would Rangers fans be giving it Nazi salutes while there is an Israeli flag in the crowd? Plus, when thinking of Rangers hardly inspires thoughts of Nazi Germany, does it? Rangers fans are simple, but they're not that simple. Apparently there's no such thing. I've got a mate from Belfast and he had never heard of it until I was talking to him about it one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadKiller Dog Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Apparently there's no such thing. I've got a mate from Belfast and he had never heard of it until I was talking to him about it one day. I remember the red hand gang on the telly as a kid ,and the big slap on the back to join said gang . I doubt there is such a thing as a red hand salute ,even if there is ,it is still a rather insensitive thing to do in Israel given that for all those people who live in the modern world its similarities to the nazi salute cant go unnoticed ,sums up the mentality of the bigots who did such a salute in Israel of all places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the North Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 It's a Red Hand salute. You know fine well it is. Why would Rangers fans be giving it Nazi salutes while there is an Israeli flag in the crowd? Plus, when thinking of Rangers hardly inspires thoughts of Nazi Germany, does it?Rangers fans are simple, but they're not that simple. I don't know... Violence? Religious hatred? Intolerance? Propaganda? Belief in themselves as the master race (we arra peepil!)? Obsession with imagery/slogans? Large scale demonstrations of said imagery? Unacceptable political views? There seems to be a lot in common there... perhaps an analogy best avoided if you want to sympathise with the hun (oops, theres another one..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Not as many... this is the point. They sing many pro-Irish songs, that admittedly have nowt to do with football. But they are not hateful. The difference many people seem to point out is that Celtic fans are pro- Ireland, Rangers fans are just anti-Celtic. Pride (maybe manufactured, plastic pride) versus hatred. Only one winner in the PR war. Like it or not, the huns have to change, big time. Murray has a massive, massive job to do - he can start by getting rid of the half time flute bands and removing his club from Europe for a year. I hate both equally but, there is nothing at all wrong with one club hating there rivals, it would ruin footy if that wasnt the norm. Celtic play in Scotland and the pro irish stuff isnt relevant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny Crane Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 It's a Red Hand salute. You know fine well it is. Why would Rangers fans be giving it Nazi salutes while there is an Israeli flag in the crowd? Plus, when thinking of Rangers hardly inspires thoughts of Nazi Germany, does it? Rangers fans are simple, but they're not that simple. Goebbels would also put a different spin on various things but at the end of the day, it was still vile bull****! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makween Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Belief in themselves as the master race (we arra peepil!)? Bollocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Correct, it wasn't my point. It was yours. We're talking about Rangers fans in Manchester singing songs designed to wind up the Tims, most of which are likely to be frowned upon by the authorities for their controversial content. If you then ask me whether I would have a problem with Hearts fans doing the same thing, I obviously assumed you were referring to the same type of song. You can't just move the goalposts because my answer didn't suit your line of argument. I asked you if you would have a problem with Hearts fans singing songs about their rivals when they would not be around to hear it.(You brought it up not me). What the songs were about was not mentioned. You 'assumed' wrong. You should never assume anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 I hate both equally but, there is nothing at all wrong with one club hating there rivals, it would ruin footy if that wasnt the norm. Celtic play in Scotland and the pro irish stuff isnt relevant If KOTN thinks Celtic fans are just 'pro Irish' he is even more delusional than I previously thought. Many Celtic fans are positively anti Britain. If he doesn't know that he should not even be in this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murdo_b Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Red Hand of Ulster, what's wrong with that? Father takes son to game. Dad are they nazi supporters no son dont be silly thats the red hand of ulster sign. Yeah i am sure the Israeli home supporters were up on the intricacy of N I sectarianism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad von Carstein Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Thankfully, you are in a massive minority. And you are talking rubbish. Even the Scottish media is at last waking up to what Rangers are all about - hatred, violence, venom, backward political views. They are an anachronism. So are you. I hope this helps. and celtic of course are about none of the above. Both are as bad as the other to try to denegrate one instead of the other is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eoin999 Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 The red hand and the nazi salute are completely different and it's plain to see in that picture that it is the latter that is being made. Rangers fans are that simple. The age old excuse for the fans behaviour is also rubbish. I don't mean to be offensive or stereotypical but i'd be close to certain that the majority of hardcore Rangers fans have little real political opinion on the status of the union, it's historical significance or the way it effects their lives today. Celtic are a club built by ex patriots. Rangers are a club rested on a feeling of hatred and bigotry towards catholics and Irish. The distinction is clear for anyone to see and the excuses given or the pointing the finger at Celtic just doesn't cut the mustard in todays society. I'm glad that Manchester has shown Rangers and their fans to be the embarrassment that they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkfish1979 Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 The red hand and the nazi salute are completely different and it's plain to see in that picture that it is the latter that is being made. Rangers fans are that simple. The age old excuse for the fans behaviour is also rubbish. I don't mean to be offensive or stereotypical but i'd be close to certain that the majority of hardcore Rangers fans have little real political opinion on the status of the union, it's historical significance or the way it effects their lives today. Good post. Just about sums it up. Bunch of thugs desperately looking for an excuse to pagger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboSean Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Apparently there's no such thing. I've got a mate from Belfast and he had never heard of it until I was talking to him about it one day. All depends on which people in Belfast you ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 The red hand and the nazi salute are completely different and it's plain to see in that picture that it is the latter that is being made. Rangers fans are that simple. The age old excuse for the fans behaviour is also rubbish. I don't mean to be offensive or stereotypical but i'd be close to certain that the majority of hardcore Rangers fans have little real political opinion on the status of the union, it's historical significance or the way it effects their lives today. Celtic are a club built by ex patriots. Rangers are a club rested on a feeling of hatred and bigotry towards catholics and Irish. The distinction is clear for anyone to see and the excuses given or the pointing the finger at Celtic just doesn't cut the mustard in todays society. I'm glad that Manchester has shown Rangers and their fans to be the embarrassment that they are. Holy **** what is it with the Celtic love in today !! Seems a few of our fans are falling for the propaganda after all... "Celtic - the non-bigoted family club of Glasgow !!! All welcome !! Tap af tha morning ta ya" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Good post. Just about sums it up. Bunch of thugs desperately looking for an excuse to pagger. Tell me a football club in Britain that doesn't have this..... PS. Not sticking up for the Huns. Just trying to point out the ridiculous knee jerk reaction that is an everyday occurrence on JKB. This week it is the turn of the amazing revelation that Rangers fans are **** !! Well who would have believed it. Holy **** it came as a shock to me as well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkfish1979 Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Holy **** what is it with the Celtic love in today !! Seems a few of our fans are falling for the propaganda after all... "Celtic - the non-bigoted family club of Glasgow !!! All welcome !! Tap af tha morning ta ya Hehe, that's why I chopped that bit off when I quoted it. Ex patriots my arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Tell me a football club in Britain that doesn't have this..... Livingston Sorry, but you did ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkfish1979 Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Tell me a football club in Britain that doesn't have this..... PS. Not sticking up for the Huns. Just trying to point out the ridiculous knee jerk reaction that is an everyday occurrence on JKB. This week it is the turn of the amazing revelation that Rangers fans are **** !! Well who would have believed it. Holy **** it came as a shock to me as well.... There isn't one. The OF, however, seem to kick off at every given opportunity. Some of the responses on here after the rankers looting of Manchester show that our club suffers from its fair share of plonkers. I really hope - if it ever comes to us being in anything resembling a similar situation in a European competition - that we don't make a complete mockery of ourselves as they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Livingston Sorry, but you did ask. You are right. There must be some !! How ironic that one is Livingston. It's not as if they have a shortage of candidates...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkfish1979 Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Livingston Sorry, but you did ask. :107years: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 There isn't one. The OF, however, seem to kick off at every given opportunity. Some of the responses on here after the rankers looting of Manchester show that our club suffers from its fair share of plonkers. I really hope - if it ever comes to us being in anything resembling a similar situation in a European competition - that we don't make a complete mockery of ourselves as they have. I am sure we wouldn't. Would not mind the chance to find out though. We can only dream of a UEFA cup Final... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Harris Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 I'm very surprised at the amount of people that have bought the celtic PR tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven98 Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Tell me a football club in Britain that doesn't have this..... PS. Not sticking up for the Huns. Just trying to point out the ridiculous knee jerk reaction that is an everyday occurrence on JKB. This week it is the turn of the amazing revelation that Rangers fans are **** !! Well who would have believed it. Holy **** it came as a shock to me as well.... I truly wonder why you bother wasting brain space on this site. You've obviously got more important things to do - curing cancer etc. Bizarre...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 You just need to read this thread to see what a vile environment Rangers and Celtic feed off and at the same time perpetuate, and I'll say it again, in thus doing, keep our eyes off the main problem for Scottish Football, their use of this filth to help them maintain their stranglehold (and that term is perfect) on Scottish Football. It's not their 'religion' (and that term is ludicrous) that's the problem, it's their abuse of their wealth and power to keep the rest of us in our place which, as I said earlier, is to be no better than 3rd!!! ................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowestjambo Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 8 pages of debate on whether one is any better or worse than the other........? The 2 most vile sets of supporters on the entire planet, why on earth does it matter which is worse?......... There is NO lesser of the 2 evils, its a bit like separating Ghenkis Khan and Attila the Hun, (no pun intended!!) A plague on BOTH their houses............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 ...the backward and unhealthy institution that is Glasgow Rangers FC was closed down? Put to sleep like a sick dog... What would happen to Celtic - do the OF need each other? Would Partick Thistle or Queen's Park become a footballing powerhouse? Would Scottish society benefit from the dissolution of the Rangers tradition? Would we be freed to look forwards as a nation rather than over our shoulders? Extraordinary thread, this, which makes very interesting reading. I'm pleased the mods saw no reason to take it down: very little of what I've read constitutes bigotry, and much is immensely worthwhile. And for the avoidance of doubt, if someone hates Celtic more than Rangers, that does not make them a bigot; and if someone supports Chelsea, that sure as heck does not make them a bigot either! But to the point at hand. Would the world be a better place if Rangers Football Club ceased to exist? Certainly. It ain't going to happen, though - and personally, however much times are changing, I find it almost impossible to imagine Celtic without Rangers, or Rangers without Celtic. In some respects, the most interesting thing about each club is their rival - just as the Tories wouldn't exist without Labour, Disraeli wouldn't have existed without Gladstone, or Kasparov without Karpov. These two are eternal rivals and enemies, of that there can be no doubt. One thing though. However loathsome both sets of fans are, and however much trouble occurs after each and every Old Firm game, there's a school of thought that suggests the existence of both clubs at least enables tens of thousands of people to channel their energies and aggressions into football, as opposed to something much nastier. In other words, without the OF, there'd be nothing whatever to stop Glasgow turning into Belfast - and quite conceivably, the older, more troubled Belfast at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Far better to cull ra sellik. The history and ethos of that club is much more repulsive. Rangers FC are reviled by many on here in an attempt to establish their PC credentials and prove they are "right on". All Rangers FC is guilty of is playing on the concept of Britishness, hardly a crime given what it says on our passports. Nonsense. What's British about nasty, bigoted, poisonous songs, Therapist? What's British about Nazi salutes? What's British about trashing an entire city? I'm British, and very proud to be so. But even allowing for the excesses of the Empire, what I'm most proud of is our continued reputation around the world for tolerance. Tolerance of other faiths, creeds, cultures and opinions: factors which have enabled Britain to enjoy huge success over the centuries, and move with the times, so creating the vibrant melting pot it is today. But exactly what is tolerant about Rangers FC? And why do far right lunatic groups such as the National Front, Combat 18 or the BNP attach themselves to Rangers' support, but not that of other clubs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Club. If you bring yourself to watch this you will see for yourself. The club gave permission for this (Unless they managed to sneak in with a filming crew:rolleyes:). A long time ago yes but still absolutely shocking considering what was happening at the time. http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=5AXJjY4BTLI As I said the OF are ****. Both sides. But if someone wants to hate one side more than the other ? THAT IS THEIR DECISION TO MAKE. Appalling. Trouble is though, CC, it was a long time ago, as you say: the pictures look 20 or 25 years old to me. And shocking though it might seem, that was a time when no less than the American government tacitly supported and helped fund the IRA, let alone Celtic Football Club! But times change. The troubles are over, Belfast is a far better place than it once was, and devolved, power-sharing government is, whether people like it or not, a reality. Good grief, the IRA have even renounced violence! Meanwhile, in tandem with this process, and at least in part because of it, Celtic really have changed and are continuing to change. Ever since Fergus McCann took the helm, that club has become vastly more modern and progressive, and does stand for positive things as well as the negatives we're all too familiar with. Sure, many of their fans, especially on their travels, are utterly loathsome to behold. But the club as a whole no longer stands for hatred, or a negative. Can the same be said of Rangers? In my view, quite clearly, no. Can they change? Do they even want to? And what happens if they don't? If Rangers are on the back foot now, just imagine what it'll be like for them if and when Scottish independence happens, or a united Ireland comes into being. In that eventuality, they'd appear unbelievably, ludicrously anachronistic, and would struggle to bring in sponsorship and commercial revenue, let alone be seen as the club of the establishment. This is why posters like KotN have brought their problems into focus on this thread: if Rangers don't change, they'll inevitably be left behind, on and off the field. But the trouble is, I don't think they can: something David Murray probably well knows. So much of their ethos and support are derived from negatives and being 'anti' something, so many of their traditions, chants and songs are relics of the past. If they made that great an effort to weed out the undesirable element, they'd alienate their core support: because the undesirables make up a far, far greater minority than at Celtic, or almost any other club in the UK. All Murray can do is pay lip service - but when tens of thousands of fans are indulging in vile sectarian chanting on their way down to Manchester, subjecting locals in pubs, hotels and petrol stations to their nonsense, you know you have a very big problem. So as I see it, they're damned if they do, and damned if they don't. Change, or be left behind; change, and lose most of the factors which have made them so successful in the first place. This is not a happy position to be in. Hmm. Ever heard of the term 'Espanyolification'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therapist Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 And why do far right lunatic groups such as the National Front, Combat 18 or the BNP attach themselves to Rangers' support, but not that of other clubs? They don't. You are so desperate to see bigotry and racism everywhere that you choose to believe an urban myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 They don't. You are so desperate to see bigotry and racism everywhere that you choose to believe an urban myth. Aye. I bet they don't attach themselves to Millwall, Chelsea or Leeds either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Interesting reading http://www.sundayherald.com/news/heraldnews/display.var.2279012.0.brothers_in_hate.php http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=5323233056 http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3785321862 Two Rangers casuals from Glasgow told the Sunday Herald that there is a long-running association between Chelsea and Rangers. The casuals call each other the Blues Brothers, a reference to their teams' colours and the bond between the two groups of supporters. Both sides' hooligans have links with extreme far-right organisations in the UK. With many hardline loyalists in Ulster avid fans of Rangers, and also connected to neo-Nazi groups in Britain, the links between the three gangs of supporters are well established. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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