Would Scotland be a better place if...

[coppercrutch]

Nicely done guys, very stealthy thread hijack....nobody noticed a thing.

 

Personally I think nearly every post on this thread is actually relevant to the original post. Even if I don't agree with many of them.

 

Don't see much hijacking going on. Have a look at a certain thread in the Shed for a shining example of that.

[Makween]

Did I say you were?

You were certainly at the wind up...

 

No I'm not.

[pablo]

So if Celtic's spin doctors are doing a better job than Ranger's spin doctors, then they have less of problem among their support? Interesting.

 

Rangers and Celtic fans are the same people in different coloured shirts.

[King of the North]

I NOW know what he means. Because he explained it. His original posts I was referring to gave a very different impression. That was my point.

 

And yes the OF are despicable !!

 

I haven't altered anything from my original post which cause you so much confusion - seems to me it was very clear all along. But anyway...

[coppercrutch]

Thats been evident for days mate. We're well past that point.

 

They're taking the p|ss now ... they think they're being a bit clever and a bit cocky ... so unless the mods want this forum to degenerate into the internet equivalent of Manchester city-centre 10:00PM Wenesday night, then they better do something about it.

 

It's called zero-tolerance.

 

Zero tolerance of what ? Having different opinions ?

 

The only people on this thread who have broken any rules are those who think they are in the right.

 

Don't you see the hypocrisy in that....

[JamboSean]

Well thanks for clearing that up.

 

I totally agree with having two sides to every story. Quite WHY someone is 'allowed' to have a hatred of Rangers whilst others are not 'allowed' to have a hatred of Celtic is beyond me?

 

Peddling 'anti hun' posts on a daily basis is just fine.

Peddling 'anti tim' posts on a daily basis is just bigoted.

 

That is why I get involved in these threads. The hypocrisy is mindblowing.

 

No worries.

 

The part in bold is exactly how it is on here.

 

The hypocrisy is hilarious. The funniest thing is the main bigot branders and little 'timpathisers'. Brilliant word who ever posted that first by the way.

[coppercrutch]

So if Celtic's spin doctors are doing a better job than Ranger's spin doctors, then they have less of problem among their support? Interesting.

 

Rangers and Celtic fans are the same people in different coloured shirts.

 

Quote of the week !!!

 

Spot on. End of. Etc..

[King of the North]

I have skipped the four pages to join this as I feel it is the same debate.

 

My view is why just ban rangers, why not have both the OF banned and life would be better. Rangers and Celtic are like a cancer that are on Scottish football, they so big that the body thinks that it is actully benefiting but one has shown to be bad on the outside but the other is actully doing its damage away from being noticable. The simplist thing is to remove it, which due to the size may cause short term pain but will benefit in the long run.

 

To me Rangers should go as they have tarnished the view of Scottish fans as drunk but friendly fans. They have destroyed the image of Scotland. Yet at least they still maintain a Scottish idenity and play a team which have a few Scots. However the use of union jacks at Scottish games means I have little respect for them, I may be a proud Scot and Brit but I think there is no need for a union jack when playing St Mirren or Falkirk.

 

Celtic however I think are worse. There has been an incrediable love in among the media for them of late. They dont even pretend to be Scottish yet they are seen as great for scottish football. They get away of having an away strip is basiclly only slightly different from their home strip. They feel they are victims yet never accept that they are the ones who are causing the victims. They get away with disgusting songs by claiming its "irish traditional songs."

 

So in my mind, Scottish football would be better in the long run without either.

 

 

To lighten the mood a little - wtf does that have to do with anything, and why does it merit a ban from Europe?

[Only a Game]

If you can find one bigoted post I've made I will never set cyber foot on this board again.

 

The problem is that the PC Hand Wringing Brigade want to see bigotry everywhere, particularly when they know someone supports Chelsea FC as well as Heart of Midlothian FC. It is stereotyping at its worst.

 

Your contant references to John Paul Hartley, identifying him as a Catholic and mocking or degrading him because of it.

 

You have done that on several occasions and its bigotted.

 

You're a bigot. Live with it. and get off the board as you said you would.

[A Boy Named Crow]

Imagine if you will, you're a Notts County fan, wandering around the internet and you stumble across this thread. It'd blow your mind with the madness! Rangers and Celtic, two horrible institutions built on the evil twisting of religion with sod all to do with football, entirely reliant on one another for their survival and success, being argued over, and to a degree defended on a Hearts website.

Crazy daisies children!

:Hearts Man dance:

[redm]

Personally I think nearly every post on this thread is actually relevant to the original post. Even if I don't agree with many of them.

 

Don't see much hijacking going on. Have a look at a certain thread in the Shed for a shining example of that.

 

You might think so, but considering that it was only a few minutes ago when you admitted that you didn't have a clue what was going on, it's unlikely that your perceptions are very accurate.

 

I'm not playing your game, so consider this my last direct response unless the thread ends up back on topic. If you want to discuss all of these off-topic concerns you have, feel free to PM.

[Drew Busby !]

Zero tolerance of what ? Having different opinions ?

 

The only people on this thread who have broken any rules are those who think they are in the right.

 

Don't you see the hypocrisy in that....

 

I'm not interested in moving the arguments to scoring debating points. Thats the tactic of the rangers apologists on this board. To muddy the waters.

 

This "debate" will not be resolved on a Hearts forum. Me, I just want this board to be cleansed of their vile presence.

[coppercrutch]

Imagine if you will, you're a Notts County fan, wandering around the internet and you stumble across this thread. It'd blow your mind with the madness! Rangers and Celtic, two horrible institutions built on the evil twisting of religion with sod all to do with football, entirely reliant on one another for their survival and success, being argued over, and to a degree defended on a Hearts website.

Crazy daisies children!

:Hearts Man dance:

 

It is really interesting though IMO.

 

Whether we like it or not, the OF are Scottish Football. Sad sad state of affairs. But its pretty much always been that way hasn't it ?

 

Everything they do affects every other club in a huge way. I am sure you hear Chelsea and Man Utd getting discussed in a similar vein on the Wigan chat forums.

[Charlie-Brown]

What did the singing of "UVF! UVF! UVF!" by Rangers fans whilst rioting and fighting with police on wednesday night have anything to do with Celtic FC ....... or indeed RFC ?

[coppercrutch]

I'm not interested in moving the arguments to scoring debating points. Thats the tactic of the rangers apologists on this board. To muddy the waters.

 

This "debate" will not be resolved on a Hearts forum. Me, I just want this board to be cleansed of their vile presence.

 

Yeah but I dont' see much 'vile presence' myself.

 

Yes a few cheeky comments here and their but the same can be said of a lot of other posters.

 

If they said anything 'vile' it would be removed by the mods. I just don't see what everyone gets their knickers in a twist about. Far more important things to worry about in this life. Like falling property prices....

[King of the North]

I'm not interested in moving the arguments to scoring debating points. Thats the tactic of the rangers apologists on this board. To muddy the waters.

 

This "debate" will not be resolved on a Hearts forum. Me, I just want this board to be cleansed of their vile presence.

 

Agreed. There was a spell in the immediate aftermath of 'Manchester' that this forum was what it used to be. Maybe they were too embarrassed to post, maybe they were in Manchester - but the petty point scoring, deliberate wind ups and muddied waters disappeared.

 

Beautiful it was... yet here we go again. Maybe when they are all in Moscow it will improve again. Roll on midweek....

[redm]

Imagine if you will, you're a Notts County fan, wandering around the internet and you stumble across this thread. It'd blow your mind with the madness! Rangers and Celtic, two horrible institutions built on the evil twisting of religion with sod all to do with football, entirely reliant on one another for their survival and success, being argued over, and to a degree defended on a Hearts website.

Crazy daisies children!

:Hearts Man dance:

 

 

I guess it all depends how much the Notts County fan knows about the dark, underbelly of Scottish football though. That would totally affect their understanding of the arguments on this thread. If they know nothing, then yeah...it could confuse them just a bit...or a whole lot..

[coppercrutch]

Agreed. There was a spell in the immediate aftermath of 'Manchester' that this forum was what it used to be. Maybe they were too embarrassed to post, maybe they were in Manchester - but the petty point scoring, deliberate wind ups and muddied waters disappeared.

 

Beautiful it was... yet here we go again. Maybe when they are all in Moscow it will improve again. Roll on midweek....

 

They do have the internet in Moscow you know....

 

Although I heard they are a little behind...

 

[Charlie-Brown]

I guess it all depends how much the Notts County fan knows about the dark, underbelly of Scottish football though. That would totally affect their understanding of the arguments on this thread. If they know nothing, then yeah...it could confuse them just a bit...or a whole lot..

 

I think the giant is flat on his back redm and the hideous protruding shame of Scottish football is visible for all to see clearly.

[jamboinglasgow]

To lighten the mood a little - wtf does that have to do with anything, and why does it merit a ban from Europe?

 

nothing really, just bugs the hell out of me. Saw a number of these strips driving through Glasgow today. But to me it sums up their arragance. They basiclly force any team that plays in green to wear their away strip. Think there should be a rule that away strips should not have the main or one of the main colours o the home strip in the it.

[A Boy Named Crow]

It is really interesting though IMO.

 

Whether we like it or not, the OF are Scottish Football. Sad sad state of affairs. But its pretty much always been that way hasn't it ?

 

Everything they do affects every other club in a huge way. I am sure you hear Chelsea and Man Utd getting discussed in a similar vein on the Wigan chat forums.

I think what I meant was the ay they seem to polarise opinions here. I live down South. EVERYBODY hates Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool (except their own fans). I've never heard my Reading supporting mate and my Crystal Palace supporting mate argue over whether they hate Man U or Chelsea more.

For what it's worth, i would love to see Scottish football without either of the old firm. They are the root cause of so much that is wrong with our game and perpetuate the problems in society as a whole.

[coppercrutch]

What did the singing of "UVF! UVF! UVF!" by Rangers fans whilst rioting and fighting with police on wednesday night have anything to do with Celtic FC ....... or indeed RFC ?

 

Maybe the fact that Celtic FC previously supported IRA terrorism ? And the huns will sing any songs they think will get at the Tims ? And vice versa ?

 

 

Google the 'Wolftones' if you don't believe me.

[jamboinglasgow]

I think the giant is flat on his back redm and the hideous protruding shame of Scottish football is visible for all to see clearly.

 

I would disagree with you, most hardcore fans in Scotland know but the only way the majority of Scotland can see it is through the media and very few journalists are prepared to paint anything but a benefical view of the infirm.

[IMA MAROON]

Did I say you were?

You were certainly at the wind up...

 

This is a Hearts board, ffs! How can it be a wind up?

 

How can disliking Celtic wind up Hearts fans when they are our rivals.

[Charlie-Brown]

Maybe the fact that Celtic FC previously supported IRA terrorism ? And the huns will sing any songs they think will get at the Tims ? And vice versa ?

 

 

Google the 'Wolftones' if you don't believe me.

 

Club or fans? And again we're back to using the other side as an excuse or an apology...............

[Only a Game]

Imagine if you will, you're a Notts County fan, wandering around the internet and you stumble across this thread. It'd blow your mind with the madness! Rangers and Celtic, two horrible institutions built on the evil twisting of religion with sod all to do with football, entirely reliant on one another for their survival and success, being argued over, and to a degree defended on a Hearts website.

Crazy daisies children!

:Hearts Man dance:

 

This is not a Hearts website. Its a Scottish Football forum, for Hearts fans. This is how the mod team described it when I enquired a few minutes ago. To me that means its main purpose is for Hearts fans to discuss Scottish Football. I thought I was joining and subscribing to a Hearts website to discuss Hearts issues. Just shows you how wrong you can be.

[King of the North]

nothing really, just bugs the hell out of me. Saw a number of these strips driving through Glasgow today. But to me it sums up their arragance. They basiclly force any team that plays in green to wear their away strip. Think there should be a rule that away strips should not have the main or one of the main colours o the home strip in the it.

 

Since the only team affected by that are the hobos, I'm all for it to be honest.

[Charlie-Brown]

I would disagree with you, most hardcore fans in Scotland know but the only way the majority of Scotland can see it is through the media and very few journalists are prepared to paint anything but a benefical view of the infirm.

 

I was talking about a Uk / European / Worldwide context jamboinglasgow - with the news videos and youtube of Manchester, Barcelona, Villareal, Athens or wherever - people outside Scotland can see them for what they really are

[coppercrutch]

I think what I meant was the ay they seem to polarise opinions here. I live down South. EVERYBODY hates Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool (except their own fans). I've never heard my Reading supporting mate and my Crystal Palace supporting mate argue over whether they hate Man U or Chelsea more.

For what it's worth, i would love to see Scottish football without either of the old firm. They are the root cause of so much that is wrong with our game and perpetuate the problems in society as a whole.

 

I would also love to see our game without either of them.

 

However if a poster decides to come on here and state they hate one more than the other ? Is that anything to get worked up about ? I couldn't give a toss if someone hates Rangers more than Celtic or vice versa. But if you come on here and say you hate Celtic more than Rangers you are branded a bigot.

 

I don't get that.

[Makween]

I thought I was joining and subscribing to a Hearts website to discuss Hearts issues.

 

Probably why you're always in the thick of every thread about Celtic, hitting out indiscriminately with the bigot stick, then?

 

Given the two instances of you flagrantly abusing the swear filter in recent threads, I'm staggered that you had the temerity to complain to the mods.

[King of the North]

This is a Hearts board, ffs! How can it be a wind up?

 

How can disliking Celtic wind up Hearts fans when they are our rivals.

 

Disliking Rangers certainly seems to wind a few up...

 

However, that particular thread was started as a wind up

[Only a Game]

Maybe the fact that Celtic FC previously supported IRA terrorism ? And the huns will sing any songs they think will get at the Tims ? And vice versa ?

 

 

Google the 'Wolftones' if you don't believe me.

 

Can you help out the debate and post a direct link to the webpage that proves that Celtic FC supported IRA terrorism so that we can discuss it further ?

[A Boy Named Crow]

This is not a Hearts website. Its a Scottish Football forum, for Hearts fans. This is how the mod team described it when I enquired a few minutes ago. To me that means its main purpose is for Hearts fans to discuss Scottish Football. I thought I was joining and subscribing to a Hearts website to discuss Hearts issues. Just shows you how wrong you can be.

Fair enough, I used the term "Hearts website" because it is a site on the internet used mostly by Hearts fans (and obsesive Hobos). Good to know the official line though!

[Makween]

Disliking Rangers certainly seems to wind a few up...

 

However, that particular thread was started as a wind up

 

No it wasn't.

[jamboinglasgow]

I was talking about a Uk / European / Worldwide context jamboinglasgow - with the news videos and youtube of Manchester, Barcelona, Villareal, Athens or wherever - people outside Scotland can see them for what they really are

 

I understand but that only paints half the picture. Both need to be shown i.e. both celtic and Rangers are bad for Scottish football. Plus even if all the world saw these clubs for what they really are I doubt the SFA would be prepared to do anything as radical as should be done.

[jamboinglasgow]

Since the only team affected by that are the hobos, I'm all for it to be honest.

 

I know it only affects hibs (which is good) but that kind of arrogance should not be allowed, celtic and rangers need to learn that they are not above any other team in the league.

[coppercrutch]

Club or fans? And again we're back to using the other side as an excuse or an apology...............

 

Club.

 

If you bring yourself to watch this you will see for yourself. The club gave permission for this (Unless they managed to sneak in with a filming crew:rolleyes:).

 

A long time ago yes but still absolutely shocking considering what was happening at the time.

 

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=5AXJjY4BTLI

 

As I said the OF are ****. Both sides. But if someone wants to hate one side more than the other ? THAT IS THEIR DECISION TO MAKE.

[coppercrutch]

Can you help out the debate and post a direct link to the webpage that proves that Celtic FC supported IRA terrorism so that we can discuss it further ?

 

Done. I await your response.

[redm]

Maybe the fact that Celtic FC previously supported IRA terrorism ? And the huns will sing any songs they think will get at the Tims ? And vice versa ?

 

 

Google the 'Wolftones' if you don't believe me.

 

A bit pointless singing songs to wind up the 'Tims' when there are none around to hear it. They aren't known for being the sharpest tools in the box but that's taking it too far, even for them. I'm sure their fellow fans enjoyed the singalong though.

 

And what the heck do the Wolftones have to do with any of this? Again, one piece of bad judgement or intentional mischief on the part of Celtic doesn't excuse the same on the part of Rangers. Nobody's suggesting that either side are angels...but the immediate problem is with Rangers and their behaviour. They are to blame for their actions, nobody else. You don't have to pick sides in order to take issue with one side or the other. You can actually despise one half without 'sympathising' with the other.

[IMA MAROON]

Disliking Rangers certainly seems to wind a few up...

 

I don't think so, it is not something I have noticed.

[A Boy Named Crow]

So if Celtic's spin doctors are doing a better job than Ranger's spin doctors, then they have less of problem among their support? Interesting.

 

Rangers and Celtic fans are the same people in different coloured shirts.

My old man is a Celtic fan and a few of my mates are Rangers fans. Their fanzines look awfully similar, wouldn't be at all surprised if they were printed by the same people! "Two cheeks of the same arse" I think is the term!

[Makween]

You can actually despise one half without 'sympathising' with the other.

 

"Sympathising" is an interesting one.

 

I keep being accused of sympathising with Rangers, despite never having posted anything to that effect. In fact, I've posted anti-Rangers comments on several occasions. I'd be interested to know what the rationale is behind people thinking that I sympathise with Rangers.

 

...and yes, I realise that that comment wasn't aimed at me.

[Charlie-Brown]

I understand but that only paints half the picture. Both need to be shown i.e. both celtic and Rangers are bad for Scottish football. Plus even if all the world saw these clubs for what they really are I doubt the SFA would be prepared to do anything as radical as should be done.

 

They ARE the SFA - why would the SFA want to do anything about them? Gordon Smith hasn't even commented about Manchester.....he has however slapped down any suggestion refs are corrupt in favour of Rangers and/or Celtic and both he & the SFA president publicly claimed they wanted to do EVERYTHING they possibly could to HELP Rangers this season........

[Only a Game]

Done. I await your response.

 

removed by the mod team I presume ?

[monkfish1979]

What did the singing of "UVF! UVF! UVF!" by Rangers fans whilst rioting and fighting with police on wednesday night have anything to do with Celtic FC ....... or indeed RFC ?

 

TBH, I think that embodies the "minority" of fans that disgrace pretty much every club in Scotland. Most of us - quite rightly, IMO - couldn't give a flying feck about being "proud brits" or which religion our opponents are perceived to follow. That's for idiots looking for an excuse to fight. On here, it would appear that it's for cowardly idiots that want an internet pagger.

 

Personally, I'm more interested in supporting my club. I have my own reasons for detesting the OF. None of them, IMO, are sectarian or based on stereotypes.

[coppercrutch]

A bit pointless singing songs to wind up the 'Tims' when there are none around to hear it. They aren't known for being the sharpest tools in the box but that's taking it too far, even for them. I'm sure their fellow fans enjoyed the singalong though.

 

And what the heck do the Wolftones have to do with any of this? Again, one piece of bad judgement or intentional mischief on the part of Celtic doesn't excuse the same on the part of Rangers. Nobody's suggesting that either side are angels...but the immediate problem is with Rangers and their behaviour. They are to blame for their actions, nobody else. You don't have to pick sides in order to take issue with one side or the other. You can actually despise one half without 'sympathising' with the other.

 

So you are against all the Jambos belting out anti-hibee songs on various European trips....

 

Because, as you say, what would be the point. No hibees around to hear it......

 

I don't agree with either of what the OF do. BUT I can understand why some of their **** fans would sing certain songs at certain times.

 

Football fans sing songs to get at their rivals. It does not matter if any of them will hear it or not. Surely you understand this....

[coppercrutch]

removed by the mod team I presume ?

 

Nah post #237.

 

It is an official released song so nothing to merit its removal IMO !!

[Drew Busby !]

Maybe the fact that Celtic FC previously supported IRA terrorism ? And the huns will sing any songs they think will get at the Tims ? And vice versa ?

 

 

Google the 'Wolftones' if you don't believe me.

 

Much was made earlier in this forum of celtic merely having "won the PR war". That may well be the case but it hardly relects well on rangers being unable to achieve a similar outcome. Why exactly is it that they couldn't have won the PR war ? What was holding them back from doing that ? What was stopping them from becoming the cheeky gallous cuddly glaswegians that the media spent all week trying to display them as ?

 

When push came to shove, a sizeable minority disgraced this country by engaging in pitch battles with police. An even larger proportion just "enjoyed themselves" down there by singing songs of hate and setting an ugly belligerent mood in the city that was hosting them.

 

It's THIS WEEKS incidents that are at the heart of the debate - and why it is that rangers seem so unwilling or unable to confront their own problem. Attempting to obfuscate the issue by saying "celtic are the same" is a sham argument. As this week clearly showed - like it or not - celtic are NOT the same...and if thats down to them observing their own plastic-paddy-oirishness and leaving the intimidation and street-warfare to their glasgow neighbours ... well it seems rangers positively revel in being the bad-boys out of the two teams. Manchester 2008, Pamplona 2007, Viilareal 2006..Barcelona 1972. They seem incapable of changing their ways and nobody at rangers, the SFA (still silent) or UEFA seems to have any way to deal with it accordingly.

[jamboinglasgow]

They ARE the SFA - why would the SFA want to do anything about them? Gordon Smith hasn't even commented about Manchester.....he has however slapped down any suggestion refs are corrupt in favour of Rangers and/or Celtic and both he & the SFA president publicly claimed they wanted to do EVERYTHING they possibly could to HELP Rangers this season........

 

I am in 100% agreement with you. The SFA are corrupt to the core in that they are the old firm. I wonder if it would almost be benifical to put foregin people in roles in the SFA and enforce protection from any gifts, etc from the old firm.

 

Almost wonder should all non-old firm clubs form their own SFA maybe call it THe Real Scottish Football Association.

[redm]

So you are against all the Jambos belting out anti-hibee songs on various European trips....

 

Because, as you say, what would be the point. No hibees around to hear it......

 

I don't agree with either of what the OF do. BUT I can understand why some of their **** fans would sing certain songs at certain times.

 

Football fans sing songs to get at their rivals. It does not matter if any of them will hear it or not. Surely you understand this....

 

I most certainly would have an issue with Jambos singing anti-Hibee songs if they were the type that would tarnish our reputation and get us in trouble with the governing bodies. Without a shadow of a doubt. I'm surprised you even asked to be honest.

 

You wouldn't have an issue with it?