Would Scotland be a better place if...

[bigwull22]

Unfortunately I bet quite a few of the fans rioting may well not have been Scottish, Rangers attract a lot of support from the Eng-ger lund brigade, thats where many of the problems stem from, Celtic on the otherhand are just smelly Jakeballs, I hate both.

[redm]

Case dismissed.

 

Replace your 'nobody' with 'King of the North' and your post makes perfect sense.

 

 

Oh for goodness sake. Talk about muddying the waters in an attempt to create the impression that at some point you were correct... You weren't and you know it.

 

Why try so hard to de-rail the debate? I don't doubt for a second that you'd have plenty to say about it anyway (and quite rightly too, it's an important issue) so why insist on being pedantic instead? ARGH.

[coppercrutch]

Oh for goodness sake. Talk about muddying the waters in an attempt to create the impression that at some point you were correct... You weren't and you know it.

 

Why try so hard to de-rail the debate? I don't doubt for a second that you'd have plenty to say about it anyway (and quite rightly too, it's an important issue) so why insist on being pedantic instead? ARGH.

 

I think you will find it is KOTN who is being pedantic. Spouting nonsense and then trying to back it up with further and further nonsense.

 

Instead of coming on here and saying i am 'muddying the waters' and I wasn't right - how about you TELL ME HOW I WASN'T RIGHT.

[coppercrutch]

jeeeeez

 

Rangers FC have a very specific image problems which attracts low life fans. Nowhere in that sentence do I infer or suggest that other clubs do not have their own sort of low lifes, but this particular club have a lot of work to do to solve their specific problem, which is far bigger than any other club.

 

I really cannot make it any simpler - and yes I know that was two sentences....

 

(Rangers) - They are the problem - not Celtic, not the OF, not Scottish Football

 

there is an image problem, that is VERY SPECIFIC to Rangers FC. Not Celtic, not Scottish football. It attracts low life fans

 

So using the words "VERY SPECIFIC" does not infer that other clubs don't have the same problem......

 

You sure about that..............Because I personally think the words VERY SPECIFIC are well how do I put it VERY SPECIFIC.

 

[scots civil war]

please dont forget another little insight kotn

 

 

remember that pre season friendly with smelltic at newcastle prior to season 07-08 do you ???????

 

did you ever read the reports on thje behaviour of the weedgies fans,well i can tell you that the geordies were absolutely horrified by their disgusting drunken reckless behaviour,out on the toon,their lovely songs ,pitch invasions etc..........go check it out my son

 

oh and another thing,i was commenting on your very own point that of the winning of the pr war.for one there was never "a pr war" and second,i reiterate my point that the only reason celtic seem favourable in the light of things is that unionism is nowadays on the back foot...........

[King of the North]

I think you will find it is KOTN who is being pedantic. Spouting nonsense and then trying to back it up with further and further nonsense.

 

Instead of coming on here and saying i am 'muddying the waters' and I wasn't right - how about you TELL ME HOW I WASN'T RIGHT.

 

You clearly don't understand what pedantic means.

 

Here is how, in very simple terms for you to understand, you were not right.

 

My basic point is that Rangers FC have a serious problem - a problem specific to them, not the OF, not Scottish Football. It is that their 'traditions' attract a far-right kind of supporter that seems to lead to the kind of scenes we saw in Manchester the other night.

 

You, in your wisdom, seemed to think I was suggesting that no other Scottish football club has a single problem supporter. Which is wrong, as we well know, but given that that was not my point, entirely irrelevant.

 

Now, the point on this thread, and indeed the majority consensus on this forum and in the media, seems to be that Rangers FC have particular image problems they need to tackle. Celtic have somehow managed to present a positive image of themselves to the world - Rangers a negative one.

 

Can't believe I have posted different versions of the same explanation to you about five times now.

[redm]

What do Rangers 'fans' beliefs ACTUALLY stand for any more?

 

The troubles are over......both ROI & NI are peaceful modern democratic nations......Great Britain is a multi-cultural evolving democracy with increasing devolution & self determination for member countries, regions & even cities............the civil wars they sing about were over centuries ago - the paramilitary organisations names they chant are redundant and most are little more than a front for organised crime.........protestant church attendances have been consistantly falling away for decades with many parish churches merging or closing...........SO WHAT PRECISELY DO THEY STAND FOR THAT IS RELEVANT IN A MODERN CONTEXT?

 

Maybe the poor wee souls just need some therapy?

Electric shock should do the trick...

 

If all they're missing is a sense of direction or approved target for carefully channelled hatred, we might well be missing an opportunity here to re-philosophise them. They're stranded in cultural wasteland with nobody to guide them, their identity has been steadily eroding away...it's the perfect time to write up a whole new philosophy....just tell them Barry said it was okay and they'll be happy as pigs in a puddle.

 

Get the Gouranga people to write it. They specialise in insane levels of happiness, tolerance and patience.....perfect.

[King of the North]

please dont forget another little insight kotn

 

 

remember that pre season friendly with smelltic at newcastle prior to season 07-08 do you ???????

 

did you ever read the reports on thje behaviour of the weedgies fans,well i can tell you that the geordies were absolutely horrified by their disgusting drunken reckless behaviour,out on the toon,their lovely songs ,pitch invasions etc..........go check it out my son

 

oh and another thing,i was commenting on your very own point that of the winning of the pr war.for one there was never "a pr war" and second,i reiterate my point that the only reason celtic seem favourable in the light of things is that unionism is nowadays on the back foot...........

 

SCW - I am not going to pretend that Celtic fans are angels - that is not the point.

 

But they are winning the PR war, it does exist, and yes that is partly because unionism is on the back foot. There was a post earlier in this thread (I think) which linked this to Rangers fans growing aggression - they know their 'views' are seen by many as anachronistic, which backs them into a corner even more.

 

In a sense, it is easier for Celtic fans to present themselves to the wider world as 'cuddly plastic Irish' - this isn't really an option for Rangers fans.

 

I think we agree on more than you imagine - don't think for a minute I am here to suggest Celtic are angels. They are, it must be said, not nearly as bad as Rangers - especially in the context of their travels abroad.

[Terrible Trio]

You're not off to Moscow this week too, are you?

 

certainly am

 

Leave Edinburgh tomorrow, fly to Moscow Tuesday morning, return to Edinburgh on Friday - should be good fun

[Only a Game]

This one too MODS. Its only fair.

[Makween]

This one too MODS. Its only fair.

 

You tell 'em, OAG.

[redm]

I think you will find it is KOTN who is being pedantic. Spouting nonsense and then trying to back it up with further and further nonsense.

 

Instead of coming on here and saying i am 'muddying the waters' and I wasn't right - how about you TELL ME HOW I WASN'T RIGHT.

 

You weren't right because you missed the point in the first place and went off on a tangent, arguing against some comments which didn't even exist. There was never any suggestion that Rangers are the only club with a problem but for some reason, you plucked it from the air and ran with it anyway and ignored repeated attempts to clarify the real issue.

 

Hence my comments about muddying the waters...which is exactly what we're doing now anyway....

[Charlie-Brown]

Their finest moment (in a wee room)

 

[King of the North]

So using the words "VERY SPECIFIC" does not infer that other clubs don't have the same problem......

 

You sure about that..............Because I personally think the words VERY SPECIFIC are well how do I put it VERY SPECIFIC.

 

 

 

Other clubs don't have the same problem... they may have problems of their own, but not of the specific sort and scale of Rangers.

 

And if you read it again, I said 'image' problem... Rangers 'image' is different to that of any other club. Agreed?

 

Hopefully that's it, we got there in the end. It only took six explanations.

[King of the North]

You tell 'em, OAG.

 

This thread should stay open - but you should be banned for trolling. Some decent, honourable posters were suckered in by your pathetic wind up.

 

Rather than close this thread, banning the hunnish element who seem to only exist to wind up others, would be a massive improvement to this forum.

[coppercrutch]

You weren't right because you missed the point in the first place and went off on a tangent, arguing against some comments which didn't even exist. There was never any suggestion that Rangers are the only club with a problem but for some reason, you plucked it from the air and ran with it anyway and ignored repeated attempts to clarify the real issue.

 

Hence my comments about muddying the waters...which is exactly what we're doing now anyway....

 

Well that is some argument. The comments that I quoted never existed eh...

 

Well that is me told.

[Makween]

This thread should stay open - but you should be banned for trolling. Some decent, honourable posters were suckered in by your pathetic wind up.

 

Rather than close this thread, banning the hunnish element who seem to only exist to wind up others, would be a massive improvement to this forum.

 

"Decent, honourable posters"

 

Where's the difference between this thread and the one that I started? What have I said that was "Hunnish"? Do you realise that Nil By Mouth deemed the term "Hun" sectarian?

[Therapist]

Some decent, honourable posters were suckered in by your pathetic wind up.

 

Nobody forced them to make those disgusting posts.

[The Merse]

Well that is some argument. The comments that I quoted never existed eh...

 

Well that is me told.

 

You have deliberately misinterpreted KotN's comments.

[coppercrutch]

Other clubs don't have the same problem... they may have problems of their own, but not of the specific sort and scale of Rangers.

 

And if you read it again, I said 'image' problem... Rangers 'image' is different to that of any other club. Agreed?

 

Hopefully that's it, we got there in the end. It only took six explanations.

 

 

Anyway back to the point in question.

[coppercrutch]

You have deliberately misinterpreted KotN's comments.

 

So first I am wrong. Then I am plucking things out of mid air. Then it is finally admitted that these comments WERE MADE. But in the end I am simply misinterpreting them...

 

Confusing place this kickback !! Anyway the OF are ****.

 

I don't understand what the argument is even about.......

[JamboSean]

Correct me if I'm wrong, this is how things now work on this board.

 

Celtic - loveable Irish rogues. Rangers - Dirty bigotted, 18th century minded hooligans.

 

Sellick, P(h)ressley, and anything with an 'h' added - Bad and makes you a bigot.

 

Hun - Perfectly fine, nothing wrong with it.

 

Stand up for Rangers - Bigot, no bus fair, awful person, Chelsea fan.

 

Stand up for Sellick - Moral high ground here we come. Disagree with me, your a bigot.

 

Proud to be British - Bigot. Proud to be Scottish - Nothing wrong with that.

 

Quite hilarious. Jambos 'double standards' Kickback.

[The Merse]

So first I am wrong. Then I am plucking things out of mid air. Then it is finally admitted that these comments WERE MADE. But in the end I am simply misinterpreting them...

 

Confusing place this kickback !! Anyway the OF are ****.

 

I don't understand what the argument is even about.......

 

That was my first post on the subject.

 

You know fine well what KotN means but are just being awkward.

 

And yes, everything the Old Firm believe in and stand for is despicable.

[IMA MAROON]

Correct me if I'm wrong, this is how things now work on this board.

 

Celtic - loveable Irish rogues. Rangers - Dirty bigotted, 18th century minded hooligans.

 

Sellick, P(h)ressley, and anything with an 'h' added - Bad and makes you a bigot.

 

Hun - Perfectly fine, nothing wrong with it.

 

Stand up for Rangers - Bigot, no bus fair, awful person, Chelsea fan.

 

Stand up for Sellick - Moral high ground here we come. Disagree with me, your a bigot.

 

Proud to be British - Bigot. Proud to be Scottish - Nothing wrong with that.

 

Quite hilarious. Jambos 'double standards' Kickback.

 

 

That is the way it is.

 

They can't even see how wrong they are.

[Only a Game]

Correct me if I'm wrong, this is how things now work on this board.

 

Celtic - loveable Irish rogues. Rangers - Dirty bigotted, 18th century minded hooligans.

 

Sellick, P(h)ressley, and anything with an 'h' added - Bad and makes you a bigot.

 

Hun - Perfectly fine, nothing wrong with it.

 

Stand up for Rangers - Bigot, no bus fair, awful person, Chelsea fan.

 

Stand up for Sellick - Moral high ground here we come. Disagree with me, your a bigot.

 

Proud to be British - Bigot. Proud to be Scottish - Nothing wrong with that.

 

Quite hilarious. Jambos 'double standards' Kickback.

 

Correct me if I am wrong but this is a Hearts board ( a non sectarian, non denominational Scottish family club)

 

Its also currently a platform for those with pro Rangers, anti Celtic, anti Catholic, anti Irish views and some of us are sick to the back teeth of 6 or 7 members constantly peddling their filth. Filth which has got nothing to do with Hearts.

[Makween]

Correct me if I'm wrong, this is how things now work on this board.

 

Celtic - loveable Irish rogues. Rangers - Dirty bigotted, 18th century minded hooligans.

 

Sellick, P(h)ressley, and anything with an 'h' added - Bad and makes you a bigot.

 

Hun - Perfectly fine, nothing wrong with it.

 

Stand up for Rangers - Bigot, no bus fair, awful person, Chelsea fan.

 

Stand up for Sellick - Moral high ground here we come. Disagree with me, your a bigot.

 

Proud to be British - Bigot. Proud to be Scottish - Nothing wrong with that.

 

Quite hilarious. Jambos 'double standards' Kickback.

 

Glad to see that you're picking up the rules. I found it difficult at first too, but then I found the most important rule, which is that you're not to expect any form of consistency or logic.

[coppercrutch]

Correct me if I'm wrong, this is how things now work on this board.

 

Celtic - loveable Irish rogues. Rangers - Dirty bigotted, 18th century minded hooligans.

 

Sellick, P(h)ressley, and anything with an 'h' added - Bad and makes you a bigot.

 

Hun - Perfectly fine, nothing wrong with it.

 

Stand up for Rangers - Bigot, no bus fair, awful person, Chelsea fan.

 

Stand up for Sellick - Moral high ground here we come. Disagree with me, your a bigot.

 

Proud to be British - Bigot. Proud to be Scottish - Nothing wrong with that.

 

Quite hilarious. Jambos 'double standards' Kickback.

 

Spot on !!!

 

I only class as some of the 'bigoted' reasons.

 

What do I get called then ? Mini bigot. Wannabe bigot ? Bigot in training ?Any ideas ?

[Charlie-Brown]

That is the way it is.

 

They can't even see how wrong they are.

 

 

Celtic and their supporters aren't even relevant to any discussions about Rangers fans and the beliefs / behaviour that they display......other peoples wrongs do NOT mitigate anything - everybody is responsible for their OWN behaviour!

[Tatlock]

It seems to me that this thread proves one thing.

 

40% who have posted have a severe dislike for Celtic and their fans.

40% who have posted have a severe dislike for Rangers and their fans.

the other 10% hate each other.

 

Now me personaly I hate seeing Hearts fans drawn into this whole bigotry debate, why cant we agree one thing. Rangers and Celtic are NOT good for Scottish football and should gtf to whichever football association is mug enough to put ????? before integrity and sport.

 

Good History debate though.

[JamboSean]

Correct me if I am wrong but this is a Hearts board ( a non sectarian, non denominational Scottish family club)

 

Its also currently a platform for those with pro Rangers, anti Celtic, anti Catholic, anti Irish views and some of us are sick to the back teeth of 6 or 7 members constantly peddling their filth. Filth which has got nothing to do with Hearts.

 

Partly Agreed.

 

Which should also stand for people who're constantly peddling anti-British, anti-Rangers, bigoted, sympathy for Sellick, 18th century minded views.

 

One of which has already posted on this thread.

[Makween]

It seems to me that this thread proves one thing.

 

40% who have posted have a severe dislike for Celtic and their fans.

40% who have posted have a severe dislike for Rangers and their fans.

the other 10% hate each other.

 

Now me personaly I hate seeing Hearts fans drawn into this whole bigotry debate, why cant we agree one thing. Rangers and Celtic are NOT good for Scottish football and should gtf to whichever football association is mug enough to put ????? before integrity and sport.

 

Good History debate though.

 

That only makes 90%.

[coppercrutch]

Correct me if I am wrong but this is a Hearts board ( a non sectarian, non denominational Scottish family club)

 

Its also currently a platform for those with pro Rangers, anti Celtic, anti Catholic, anti Irish views and some of us are sick to the back teeth of 6 or 7 members constantly peddling their filth. Filth which has got nothing to do with Hearts.

 

If anyone was peddling 'filth' it would quickly be spotted and removed. Far less than 'filth' gets removed from this board on a regular basis.

 

So either:

 

(1) The Mods are not doing their job properly.

(2) You are reading into things that do not break any rules and are only offensive if you WANT them to be offensive.

 

What is it to be...

[Tatlock]

oops! the other 10% dont know what to think then

[coppercrutch]

That was my first post on the subject.

You know fine well what KotN means but are just being awkward.

 

And yes, everything the Old Firm believe in and stand for is despicable.

 

I NOW know what he means. Because he explained it. His original posts I was referring to gave a very different impression. That was my point.

 

And yes the OF are despicable !!

[JamboSean]

Glad to see that you're picking up the rules. I found it difficult at first too, but then I found the most important rule, which is that you're not to expect any form of consistency or logic.

 

I've known the rules all along. Two sides to every arguement, but only one is ever allowed.

 

Spot on !!!

 

I only class as some of the 'bigoted' reasons.

 

What do I get called then ? Mini bigot. Wannabe bigot ? Bigot in training ?Any ideas ?

 

I'm in all. I'm a big dirty glorified horrible bigot.

 

I think mini-hun should be suffice.

[Drew Busby !]

Correct me if I am wrong but this is a Hearts board ( a non sectarian, non denominational Scottish family club)

 

Its also currently a platform for those with pro Rangers, anti Celtic, anti Catholic, anti Irish views and some of us are sick to the back teeth of 6 or 7 members constantly peddling their filth. Filth which has got nothing to do with Hearts.

 

It's a perverse blessing in a way. The hard-core hun apologists on here have found their voice today. And it's the favoured position of all huns everywhere, that of being hated. They revel in it.

 

What they can't understand is WHY they're hated. Thats their tragedy but it's also a tragedy for this forum that displays their alien views in print.

 

Utterly utterly vile voices on this board today and it's time fo zero-tolerance. The mods have enough brains in their heads to see the game they're playing and the gers-wannabees should be lifetime banned from this board ASAP.

[coppercrutch]

Celtic and their supporters aren't even relevant to any discussions about Rangers fans and the beliefs / behaviour that they display......other peoples wrongs do NOT mitigate anything - everybody is responsible for their OWN behaviour!

 

 

Please someone call an ambulance !! This is getting serious !!

[Makween]

I've had enough of these divisions in the Hearts support. Why can't we all just get along and agree to support Hearts and Chelsea?

[Charlie-Brown]

 

Please someone call an ambulance !! This is getting serious !!

 

Answers like "ah but celtic / tims do it too" or "they're as bad or worse than us" are infantile! pure & simple 2 wrongs do NOT make a right!

[JamboSean]

I've had enough of these divisions in the Hearts support. Why can't we all just get along and agree to support Hearts and Chelsea?

 

Seconded.

[Charlie-Brown]

It's a perverse blessing in a way. The hard-core hun apologists on here have found their voice today. And it's the favoured position of all huns everywhere, that of being hated. They revel in it.

 

What they can't understand is WHY they're hated. Thats their tragedy but it's also a tragedy for this forum that displays their alien views in print.

 

Utterly utterly vile voices on this board today and it's time fo zero-tolerance. The mods have enough brains in their heads to see the game they're playing and the gers-wannabees should be lifetime banned from this board ASAP.

 

I disagree DB ! Let them post all they want - this is a democracy - let everyone see for themselves how intellectually hollow their posts & arguments are!

[coppercrutch]

I've known the rules all along. Two sides to every arguement, but only one is ever allowed.

 

 

 

I'm in all. I'm a big dirty glorified horrible bigot.

 

I think mini-hun should be suffice.

 

Well thanks for clearing that up.

 

I totally agree with having two sides to every story. Quite WHY someone is 'allowed' to have a hatred of Rangers whilst others are not 'allowed' to have a hatred of Celtic is beyond me?

 

Peddling 'anti hun' posts on a daily basis is just fine.

Peddling 'anti tim' posts on a daily basis is just bigoted.

 

That is why I get involved in these threads. The hypocrisy is mindblowing.

[coppercrutch]

Answers like "ah but celtic / tims do it too" or "they're as bad or worse than us" are infantile! pure & simple 2 wrongs do NOT make a right!

 

Of course. But everything one side of the OF does is related to the other.

 

So if we are talking about one side why not bring up the other?

 

It would be like discussing the Labour party and being 'told off' for bringing up the Tories.

 

Ridiculous. IMO.

[redm]

Nicely done guys, very stealthy thread hijack....nobody noticed a thing.

[jamboinglasgow]

I have skipped the four pages to join this as I feel it is the same debate.

 

My view is why just ban rangers, why not have both the OF banned and life would be better. Rangers and Celtic are like a cancer that are on Scottish football, they so big that the body thinks that it is actully benefiting but one has shown to be bad on the outside but the other is actully doing its damage away from being noticable. The simplist thing is to remove it, which due to the size may cause short term pain but will benefit in the long run.

 

To me Rangers should go as they have tarnished the view of Scottish fans as drunk but friendly fans. They have destroyed the image of Scotland. Yet at least they still maintain a Scottish idenity and play a team which have a few Scots. However the use of union jacks at Scottish games means I have little respect for them, I may be a proud Scot and Brit but I think there is no need for a union jack when playing St Mirren or Falkirk.

 

Celtic however I think are worse. There has been an incrediable love in among the media for them of late. They dont even pretend to be Scottish yet they are seen as great for scottish football. They get away of having an away strip is basiclly only slightly different from their home strip. They feel they are victims yet never accept that they are the ones who are causing the victims. They get away with disgusting songs by claiming its "irish traditional songs."

 

So in my mind, Scottish football would be better in the long run without either.

[King of the North]

"Decent, honourable posters"

 

Where's the difference between this thread and the one that I started? What have I said that was "Hunnish"? Do you realise that Nil By Mouth deemed the term "Hun" sectarian?

 

Did I say you were?

You were certainly at the wind up...

[Sheriff Fatman]

I've had enough of these divisions in the Hearts support. Why can't we all just get along and agree to support Hearts and Chelsea?

 

I'm half way with you there, but I'll stick to Hearts and Oxford United.

[Drew Busby !]

I disagree DB ! Let them post all they want - this is a democracy - let everyone see for themselves how intellectually hollow their posts & arguments are!

 

Thats been evident for days mate. We're well past that point.

 

They're taking the p|ss now ... they think they're being a bit clever and a bit cocky ... so unless the mods want this forum to degenerate into the internet equivalent of Manchester city-centre 10:00PM Wenesday night, then they better do something about it.

 

It's called zero-tolerance.

[Terrible Trio]

Well thanks for clearing that up.

 

I totally agree with having two sides to every story. Quite WHY someone is 'allowed' to have a hatred of Rangers whilst others are not 'allowed' to have a hatred of Celtic is beyond me?

 

Peddling 'anti hun' posts on a daily basis is just fine.

Peddling 'anti tim' posts on a daily basis is just bigoted.

 

That is why I get involved in these threads. The hypocrisy is mindblowing

 

spot on - but unfortunately they can't see it

[colinmaroon]

The pathetic attempt by the so-called "mini-huns" to draw a clear line between those who "love" the so-called "loveable Irish rogues" and despise the "bigots" is just reemphasising the whole point about this cancer in Scotland!!!

 

The "bigotry" of the hordes from BroxPox, and the "bigotry" of the hordes from Darkheid are equally abhorrent!!!

 

And this matter of "hun" and "tim" is a smokescreen concealing the real issue for football - the stranglehold that the Bigot BROTHERS have on Scottish Football!!!

 

When it comes to manipulation, coercion and downright intimidation Rangers win that race by a SHORT HEAD over Celtic - but they're both interested in maintaining the status quo in which they get richer and keep we peasants in our place - 3rd at best!!!

 

 

................