Would Scotland be a better place if...

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Incorrect. If that were the case, they would have married someone of similar social standing from within their own country.

 

You haven't quite grasped the concept that the monarch and their family sits above everyone else in the class system, have you? How can there be anyone of similar social standing from within their own country?

[coppercrutch]

Not in my opinion, no. This week showed the huns for what they really are. For many of us it was entirely predictable.

 

Are the huns 'fair game' for any sort of criticism - Yes.

 

They are the problem - not Celtic, not the OF, not Scottish Football.

 

The huns deserve everything that is coming their way

 

Was just scanning through this thread. Interesting stuff - Got to this point and HAD to reply !!

 

You have proved yourself either delusional or just brainwashed with the above nonsense.

 

Scottish football, Celtic and the OF are not the problem?! You couldn't make it up. In fact did you just make it up for a laugh. Please tell me you did. Please !!!

[coppercrutch]

...which would be a good argument, if absolutely everyone who took a pride in being British was against the EU. Which isn't really the case.

 

It's a pretty spurious argument either way. Britain's been a sovereign country for several hundred years now, Europe hasn't.

 

It certainly is. All you are saying is that there is nothing wrong with being proud to be British. That being proud of being British does not make you a bigot no matter what some narrow minded fools on this site think. You are completely correct.

 

Just give it up.

 

They are not capable of understanding this. They do not WANT to understand this. They want you to hate Rangers and Britishness as much as they do. Even if that means thinking that Celtic have 'moved forward' with the times !!

 

As I have said. You could not make it up. The OF are ****. End of story.

 

Anyone trying to remove Celtic from that statement needs their head examined.

 

CELTIC = ****

RANGERS = ****

 

The view above, combined with sometimes drinking in Robbos, has already got me classed as some sort of bigot. Go figure.....

[Stewart MacD]

The only things we've shared with Europe over the years are countless wars. To suggest the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland shares cultural ties with mainland Europe is the rantings of a diseased mind.

 

Scotland and England hve both had links with the mainland for thousands of years. However, over the last fifteen hundred (or so) years, the Scots' links have been in trading, not invading.

[coppercrutch]

I don't normally agree with Therapist, however he hasn't actually stated anything bigotted as far as I can see on this thread, or as far as I can remember on any other thread.

 

He states his opinions on what he believes to be true, whether people like it or not, most of it he probably believes himself, and some is clearly done on wind up purposes (don't even try and deny it Mr!)

 

At the end of the day, his beliefs are his beliefs, and his thoughts are his thoughts, I don't agree with most of them either but I respect someone for having the balls to stand up and voice his opinion, kinda like Coppercrutch on the estate agents thread.

 

Therapist is obviously swayed a lot more to the Rangers FC side of things, whereas I'm not, but hey, life would be boring if we all thought the same now wouldn't it?

 

It makes for good debate

 

It certainly does !! Maybe we should have a permanent sticky for this subject.

 

TITLE:

 

Which side of the OF is more hated today !!

 

The huns have it this week, by a country mile.

 

However, come next week I reckon the Tims will be top of the hated list once more.

 

If they win the league, and then go into overdrive about how they 'Did it for Tommy'.

 

I can just see it now....they will milk it like I would milk a large Friesian...

[King of the North]

Was just scanning through this thread. Interesting stuff - Got to this point and HAD to reply !!

 

You have proved yourself either delusional or just brainwashed with the above nonsense.

 

Scottish football, Celtic and the OF are not the problem?! You couldn't make it up. In fact did you just make it up for a laugh. Please tell me you did. Please !!!

 

read the rest of this thread, and some others. There are countless good posts by several posters which outline the difference in very clear terms.

 

Rangers have a massive, massive problem, which the rest of Scottish Football do not. And that includes Celtic.

 

To move forward as a modern, inclusive, decent football club, Rangers FC (the club) have to confront the fact that the mindset, politics and attitudes of the majority of their fans are stuck in the past - not going to get into Union/history debates here, it's all been done to death.

 

Celtic's fans are different - their 'plastic oirishness' is extremely compatible with and sellable in the modern world. Like it or not, thats a fact. Not the construct of a few 'pc handwringers' on here, but a fact.

 

Rangers 'aggresive unionism' is incompatible with the way the world is going. It attracts lowest common denominator types such as the BNP etc - and the evidence of that was clear to see in the streets of Manchester.

 

Read some of the threads again - nobody is being 'pro Celtic' for the sake of it - the simple fact is that Rangers FC have a huge image problem, of their own making. They should have seen this coming - they have to disasociate themselves from unionism, protestantism, Northern Ireland and right wing politics - IF they want to rid their club of the neanderthals it currently attracts.

 

No easy task - but Murray cannot sweep his problems under the carpet any longer.

 

So forget Celtic - in many ways they are irrelevant to this debate. Forget Scottish football. This is a Rangers problem. That is the point.

[coppercrutch]

read the rest of this thread, and some others. There are countless good posts by several posters which outline the difference in very clear terms.

 

Rangers have a massive, massive problem, which the rest of Scottish Football do not. And that includes Celtic.

 

To move forward as a modern, inclusive, decent football club, Rangers FC (the club) have to confront the fact that the mindset, politics and attitudes of the majority of their fans are stuck in the past - not going to get into Union/history debates here, it's all been done to death.

 

Celtic's fans are different - their 'plastic oirishness' is extremely compatible with and sellable in the modern world. Like it or not, thats a fact. Not the construct of a few 'pc handwringers' on here, but a fact.

 

Rangers 'aggresive unionism' is incompatible with the way the world is going. It attracts lowest common denominator types such as the BNP etc - and the evidence of that was clear to see in the streets of Manchester.

 

Read some of the threads again - nobody is being 'pro Celtic' for the sake of it - the simple fact is that Rangers FC have a huge image problem, of their own making. They should have seen this coming - they have to disasociate themselves from unionism, protestantism, Northern Ireland and right wing politics - IF they want to rid their club of the neanderthals it currently attracts.

 

No easy task - but Murray cannot sweep his problems under the carpet any longer.

 

So forget Celtic - in many ways they are irrelevant to this debate. Forget Scottish football. This is a Rangers problem. That is the point.

 

The above is simply noise, what you said was:

 

 

(Rangers) - They are the problem - not Celtic, not the OF, not Scottish Football

 

Just admit that is bollocks and get it done with....

 

Rangers are nothing without Celtic and vice versa. They are both nothing without Scottish football. So I am afraid to tell you the following - THEY ARE ALL THE PROBLEM.

 

Jeez. I cant believe I am actually having this discussion with a Jambo. Am I in some random parallel universe............

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

read the rest of this thread, and some others. There are countless good posts by several posters which outline the difference in very clear terms.

 

Rangers have a massive, massive problem, which the rest of Scottish Football do not. And that includes Celtic.

 

To move forward as a modern, inclusive, decent football club, Rangers FC (the club) have to confront the fact that the mindset, politics and attitudes of the majority of their fans are stuck in the past - not going to get into Union/history debates here, it's all been done to death.

 

Celtic's fans are different - their 'plastic oirishness' is extremely compatible with and sellable in the modern world. Like it or not, thats a fact. Not the construct of a few 'pc handwringers' on here, but a fact.

 

Rangers 'aggresive unionism' is incompatible with the way the world is going. It attracts lowest common denominator types such as the BNP etc - and the evidence of that was clear to see in the streets of Manchester.

 

Read some of the threads again - nobody is being 'pro Celtic' for the sake of it - the simple fact is that Rangers FC have a huge image problem, of their own making. They should have seen this coming - they have to disasociate themselves from unionism, protestantism, Northern Ireland and right wing politics - IF they want to rid their club of the neanderthals it currently attracts.

 

No easy task - but Murray cannot sweep his problems under the carpet any longer.

 

So forget Celtic - in many ways they are irrelevant to this debate. Forget Scottish football. This is a Rangers problem. That is the point.

 

Hold on a minute! I have no problem with people's political views, no matter how much of an anathema they might be to you. My problem with Rangers FC and their mates in the East End is their complicit condoning of the fact that these political views, whatever they are, form a core part of the ethos of their football clubs.

[redm]

I admire the way you carried out that task.

 

John Tickle would be proud of you.

 

 

Thanks! Jon is an inspiration to me.

 

You would have been even more impressed then if I had gone with my original idea and included the Rangers fan who had his leg nibbled by the police dog as a comparison. But I couldn't be bothered trying to find his photo...and he looks exactly like most other reprobate peaheads in blue anyway. They must be farming them somewhere....mass production of GM tattooed f-wits....

[King of the North]

Hold on a minute! I have no problem with people's political views, no matter how much of an anathema they might be to you. My problem with Rangers FC and their mates in the East End is their complicit condoning of the fact that these political views, whatever they are, form a core part of the ethos of their football clubs.

 

Nowhere did I mention my views.

 

Celtic's 'views' are seen as acceptable - Rangers are seen as anachronistic was what I said in broad terms.

 

My views on Rangers or Celtic are irrelevant - but look at events this week. Celtic fans have by and large succeeded in constructing a 'cuddly' image - Rangers fans perpetuate the 'no one likes us we dont care'.

 

In terms of this debate, based on events this week, it is Rangers who have massive, massive problems and who need to seriously reflect upon them. That is the point.

[Terrible Trio]

...the backward and unhealthy institution that is Glasgow Rangers FC was closed down? Put to sleep like a sick dog...

 

What would happen to Celtic - do the OF need each other?

 

Would Partick Thistle or Queen's Park become a footballing powerhouse?

 

Would Scottish society benefit from the dissolution of the Rangers tradition? Would we be freed to look forwards as a nation rather than over our shoulders?

 

Scotland would certainly be a better place without rabid bigots like you

[King of the North]

The above is simply noise, what you said was:

 

 

(Rangers) - They are the problem - not Celtic, not the OF, not Scottish Football

 

Just admit that is bollocks and get it done with....

 

Rangers are nothing without Celtic and vice versa. They are both nothing without Scottish football. So I am afraid to tell you the following - THEY ARE ALL THE PROBLEM.

 

Jeez. I cant believe I am actually having this discussion with a Jambo. Am I in some random parallel universe............

 

 

I think you may be in some random parallel universe, so I'll explain it again to you slowly.

 

I did say that Rangers are the problem. And in my next post I explained very clearly why.

 

THEY ARE ALL THE PROBLEM you shout - if you are inferring that all of Scottish football is somehow to blame for events in Manchester, I cannot agree.

 

Read some of the threads again. Read the Scotland on Sunday articles. Read the Times articles.

 

 

Here is the point - there is an image problem, that is VERY SPECIFIC to Rangers FC. Not Celtic, not Scottish football. It attracts low life fans, and the upshot was the carnage visited upon the residents of Manchester.

 

 

I hope you get it this time.

[MacDonald Jardine]

Nowhere did I mention my views.

 

Celtic's 'views' are seen as acceptable - Rangers are seen as anachronistic was what I said in broad terms.

 

My views on Rangers or Celtic are irrelevant - but look at events this week. Celtic fans have by and large succeeded in constructing a 'cuddly' image - Rangers fans perpetuate the 'no one likes us we dont care'.

 

In terms of this debate, based on events this week, it is Rangers who have massive, massive problems and who need to seriously reflect upon them. That is the point.

 

I don't think anyone would try to condone the trouble in Manchester on Wednesday but it's a massive leap from that to suggest that unionist/ pro British views are intrinsically objectionable to everyone else.

[Drylaw Hearts]

They must be farming them somewhere....mass production of GM tattooed f-wits....

 

 

 

I think they call it Ibrox.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Nowhere did I mention my views.

 

Celtic's 'views' are seen as acceptable - Rangers are seen as anachronistic was what I said in broad terms.

 

My views on Rangers or Celtic are irrelevant - but look at events this week. Celtic fans have by and large succeeded in constructing a 'cuddly' image - Rangers fans perpetuate the 'no one likes us we dont care'.

 

In terms of this debate, based on events this week, it is Rangers who have massive, massive problems and who need to seriously reflect upon them. That is the point.

 

I would disagree to the extent that what their views are is irrelevant to the debate. It's how those views are espoused is the issue.

 

For example, the fact that Britishness was part of Rangers identity. They were in probably the most important city in England outside of London, not anywhere else. And they wrecked it!

[King of the North]

I don't think anyone would try to condone the trouble in Manchester on Wednesday but it's a massive leap from that to suggest that unionist/ pro British views are intrinsically objectionable to everyone else.

 

As I said earlier, i am not going to get into unionist/history debates, nor debate my views on them. On this thread I have discussed the image of Rangers, and the image problem they have.

 

Reagardless of your political views, I think it would be fair to say that Rangers 'politics' attracts a large number of undesirables, and that David Murray has serious problems if he is to address this. It's a massive task, because it appears that these 'politics' are ingrained at Rangers, and have been for some time. That is why journalists like Speirs refer to a 'club with poison at it's core'.

 

And it's also why reference to Celtic is irrelevant - as I say, their 'image' is utterly compatible with the modern world, whether that is 'fair' or not is a different matter. It is Rangers with the image problem.

[King of the North]

I would disagree to the extent that what their views are is irrelevant to the debate. It's how those views are espoused is the issue.

 

For example, the fact that Britishness was part of Rangers identity. They were in probably the most important city in England outside of London, not anywhere else. And they wrecked it!

 

Don't ask me to explain the logic of Rangers fans!

 

 

And I agree - it is how these views are espoused. People can believe what they like - but when you start to do it loudly, aggresively and with venom as part of a big group, suddenly you are part of a social problem.

[troonjambo]

I don't think we should - Murray has paid lip service to ridding his club of bigotry, while at the same time

 

organising UJ flag displays

playing flute band music at half time

sanctioning an orange away strip

condemning journalists like Graham Spiers as Celtic minded

 

Murray has refused to take his poroblems seriously, and tried to sweep them under the carpet all in a bid to avoid UEFA sanction. It has come back to bite him on the arse, as it's partly his fault that the cancer at the heart of the support has been allowed to spread.

 

bang on the money

[luckydug]

Far better to cull ra sellik. The history and ethos of that club is much more repulsive.

 

Rangers FC are reviled by many on here in an attempt to establish their PC credentials and prove they are "right on". All Rangers FC is guilty of is playing on the concept of Britishness, hardly a crime given what it says on our passports.

 

 

 

At the moment!

[Only a Game]

However - and thankfully - my views reflect the thoughts of the wider Hearts family. Of that there is no doubt.

 

Do you never learn. You assured us last week that your views on Pressley reflected the views of the majority of the Hearts support.

 

That was proven decisively to be wrong.

 

You cannot possibly judge the views of the wider Hearts family because you, believe it or believe it not, are not part of that family anymore. The family disowned you and your like several years ago so feck off to the orphanage or contact the family in the west who would take you in.

[Terrible Trio]

You cannot possibly judge the views of the wider Hearts family because you, believe it or believe it not, are not part of that family anymore. The family disowned you and your like several years ago so feck off to the orphanage or contact the family in the west who would take you in.

 

 

[Drew Busby !]

1970 Milan, Celtic lose European cup final - no riot

1972 Barcelona, Rangers win Cup Winners Cup final - rioting

 

2003 Seville, Celtic lose UEFA cup final - no rioting

2008 Seville, Rangers lose UEFA cup final - rioting

 

Whilst they both present a virtually equally unacceptable face on match-days, theres no doubt - as we've seen again this week - that the bluenoses are ready willing and able to translate vileness into action.If smellick have won a so called "PR war" by the simple expedient of NOT rioting in the streets, then I say hoo-fecking-ray for smellick

 

Over 40 years, really nothing has changed in the bitter and vile disposition that lies at the heart of the huns support. And it'll never change for as long as bigotry and protestant triumphalism is accepted as normal amongst the majority of their fanbase. It what they regard as their identity and what feeds their hate of the rest of the world. How that gets fixed, feck only knows ... probably never. We're stuck with their bile in perpituity I fear.

[Das Root]

Far better to cull ra sellik. The history and ethos of that club is much more repulsive.

 

Rangers FC are reviled by many on here in an attempt to establish their PC credentials and prove they are "right on". All Rangers FC is guilty of is playing on the concept of Britishness, hardly a crime given what it says on our passports.

 

 

 

Roll on a few years and we can all hope that will come to an end.

 

Both sides of the OF coin are equally as repulsive, if the SFA ever deemed to sort them out football in Scotland would benefit. But as the SFA are really the OF, it's never going to happen.

 

And they can now shut up about moving to the EPL, they'd be told where to shove it now that's for sure.

[luckydug]

Do you never learn. You assured us last week that your views on Pressley reflected the views of the majority of the Hearts support.

 

That was proven decisively to be wrong.

 

You cannot possibly judge the views of the wider Hearts family because you, believe it or believe it not, are not part of that family anymore. The family disowned you and your like several years ago so feck off to the orphanage or contact the family in the west who would take you in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If I thought that Therapist's views represented any more than .001% of the Hearts fans I would tear up my NEWLY BOUGHT SEASON TICKET right now!

And start supporting Hibs.

[redm]

 

 

If you're not trotting about after one, you'll be right behind the other....

Did they make you chief shadow?

 

People might not be agreeing on much but at least they're actually contributing to the debate rather than just sending random clusters of smileys....Are you really just out to be as irritating as possible?

[MacDonald Jardine]

If I thought that Therapist's views represented any more than .001% of the Hearts fans I would tear up my NEWLY BOUGHT SEASON TICKET right now!

And start supporting Hibs.

 

Better get started then.

If you take 16,000 Hearts fans at Tynecastle for a home game I'm sure more than 2 (rounding up) would hold similar views.

[Charlie-Brown]

The only things we've shared with Europe over the years are countless wars. To suggest the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland shares cultural ties with mainland Europe is the rantings of a diseased mind.

 

Virtually all of our original cultures & languages (celtic, germanic & latin-derived) came from mainland europe along with those peoples and with whom we have also traded with for millenia - are those cultural ties enough for you?

[Charlie-Brown]

King William III (Prince of Orange) was born in the Hague which at the time was part of the Dutch Republic.......his Uncle whom he helped to depose King James II / VII was born in St. James Palace in London........who was more British? Do we still share NO cultural ties with mainland Europe? Who's mind is diseased?

[Therapist]

Virtually all of our original cultures & languages (celtic, germanic & latin-derived) came from mainland europe along with those peoples and with whom we have also traded with for millenia - are those cultural ties enough for you?

 

Your points are accurate but totally irrelevant from the stand point of this discussion.

[coppercrutch]

I think you may be in some random parallel universe, so I'll explain it again to you slowly.

 

I did say that Rangers are the problem. And in my next post I explained very clearly why.

 

THEY ARE ALL THE PROBLEM you shout - if you are inferring that all of Scottish football is somehow to blame for events in Manchester, I cannot agree.

 

Read some of the threads again. Read the Scotland on Sunday articles. Read the Times articles.

 

 

Here is the point - there is an image problem, that is VERY SPECIFIC to Rangers FC. Not Celtic, not Scottish football. It attracts low life fans, and the upshot was the carnage visited upon the residents of Manchester.

 

I hope you get it this time.

 

No I still don't get it. You are talking nonsense. End of story. Just admit it and stop this pathetic attempt to back up the nonsense you are spouting.

 

Celtic and Scottish football DON'T have a problem with low life fans !!!

 

Have you even been to a game in Scotland ? **** left right and centre.

 

You are delusional. You need help. End of story.

[redm]

No I still don't get it. You are talking nonsense. End of story. Just admit it and stop this pathetic attempt to back up the nonsense you are spouting.

 

Celtic and Scottish football DON'T have a problem with low life fans !!!

 

Have you even been to a game in Scotland ? **** left right and centre.

 

You are delusional. You need help. End of story.

 

 

I get the feeling that you might be purposefully missing the point for the sake of Sunday-afternoon debate Coppercrutch....

 

Nobody has suggested that these other football supporter groups don't have any problems at all or an undesirable element of their support. They just have far LESS than Rangers. The 'naughty minority' quote that gets routinely trotted out for these things doesn't apply to Rangers. They have a big problem and even their own decent fans will admit as much.

[King of the North]

No I still don't get it. You are talking nonsense. End of story. Just admit it and stop this pathetic attempt to back up the nonsense you are spouting.

 

Celtic and Scottish football DON'T have a problem with low life fans !!!

 

Have you even been to a game in Scotland ? **** left right and centre.

 

You are delusional. You need help. End of story.

 

End of story? oh dear. The fact that you still don't get it suggests that you are either a bit thick or are wilfully missing the point.

 

As for being delusional, then so are the multiple contributors to this forum who share my views, not to mention the several leading journalists who say the same thing.

 

I'm not going to over it all again for you, except to say that of course other clubs have some low life fans. Celtic, Hearts, I'm sure even Spartans have the odd one.

 

The point of all these threads, all these posts is not to suggest that one club has a complete monopoly on low lifes - but one club has a very specific image which attracts them, and specific 'traditions' that appeal to them. the result is Wednesday night, and the point is that it is this image, these traditions that Murray has to change.

 

If that is too much for you to understand, then thats your problem. It could be that you are deliberately looking for an argument, but it all seems very clear to me.

 

Read this

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/article3953311.ece

 

which echoes much of what has been said on here. I hope you understand it this time. If not then please don't try to insult me - the problem is yours, not mine.

[Terrible Trio]

If you're not trotting about after one, you'll be right behind the other....

Did they make you chief shadow?

 

People might not be agreeing on much but at least they're actually contributing to the debate rather than just sending random clusters of smileys....Are you really just out to be as irritating as possible?

 

I am just having a laugh at the bun fight to see who is the biggest hand-wringer

 

[scots civil war]

yeah, this k.o.t.n chappy is offering serious bias towards the smelltic side of things.if they have no baggage then,

 

 

have you never saw,at tynecastle,all them sniper reenactments from the slimes part of the ground ????

 

how about the "jungle",u remember that ???? with all those lovely songs emanating forth.that sentiment never dies

 

what about the "collections" at parkhead and various hostelries in that area of the weedge

 

hows about,the busload that got off at roseburn a couple of years ago,where one confronted some hearts fans with an provo reenactment to much hooting from his fellow ****bags

 

 

 

........and theyve won the pr war,,,?????

 

 

youve been watching setanta too much and also keenly participating in their televised euro nights my son.that is the only factor in how smellsic have redeemed themselves in the past few years,theyve become more universal.rangers are not flavour of the month because of all the political swings re independence and the sinnfein and the unionists taking the english govts money in the past few years...........

 

so please,dont give celtic the nod.theyre just as bad as each other

[redm]

I am just having a laugh at the bun fight to see who is the biggest hand-wringer

 

 

I see. Well, I'm glad you're having such fun.

 

Do keep us posted on that. I'm sure your justification for labelling people 'hand-wringers' will be superb entertainment in itself.

 

You're not off to Moscow this week too, are you?

[monkfish1979]

 

 

I think they call it Ibrox.

 

Or, indeed, Mordor.

[monkfish1979]

I am just having a laugh at the bun fight to see who is the biggest hand-wringer

 

 

Who's wringing their hands? Is it really that outlandish to have to consider, for a second, that what people have stated on this board relates - exactly - the way they actually feel about something.

[MacDonald Jardine]

Who's wringing their hands? Is it really that outlandish to have to consider, for a second, that what people have stated on this board relates - exactly - the way they actually feel about something.

 

No outlandish, but frightening if some people actually believe what they're posting.

[Drew Busby !]

yeah, this k.o.t.n chappy is offering serious bias towards the smelltic side of things.if they have no baggage then,

 

 

have you never saw,at tynecastle,all them sniper reenactments from the slimes part of the ground ????

 

how about the "jungle",u remember that ???? with all those lovely songs emanating forth.that sentiment never dies

 

what about the "collections" at parkhead and various hostelries in that area of the weedge

 

hows about,the busload that got off at roseburn a couple of years ago,where one confronted some hearts fans with an provo reenactment to much hooting from his fellow ****bags

 

 

 

........and theyve won the pr war,,,?????

 

 

youve been watching setanta too much and also keenly participating in their televised euro nights my son.that is the only factor in how smellsic have redeemed themselves in the past few years,theyve become more universal.rangers are not flavour of the month because of all the political swings re independence and the sinnfein and the unionists taking the english govts money in the past few years...........

 

so please,dont give celtic the nod.theyre just as bad as each other

 

They've both got a lot in common, of that there is no doubt, they're both very unpleasant on a match-day. Whether its here or abroad, they both indulge in intimidating, base and foul-mouthed behaviour and sing quite absurd songs about the past.

 

However if theres a casting vote in favour of vileness then rangers get it. Out of all the scottish clubs - celtic included - only the bluenoses are capable of going abroad and being involved in major and violent public order disturbances on a regular and predictable basis. Manchester 2008, baton charged in Pamplona in 2007, smashing the Villareal players bus in 2006 ... a proud history in fact going back to the Barcelona square-off in 1972. Perhaps you can recite in which years and in which cities, celtic fans have had to be similarly rebuffed by riot police in order to regain control ?

[The White Cockade]

If you can find one bigoted post I've made I will never set cyber foot on this board again.

 

The problem is that the PC Hand Wringing Brigade want to see bigotry everywhere, particularly when they know someone supports Chelsea FC as well as Heart of Midlothian FC. It is stereotyping at its worst.

 

keep it up

you do make us laugh..........

 

Apart from the fact 90% plus of your many posts are either pro Rangers and their brain dead fans or displaying you're irrational and complete hatred of Celtic I would settle for your pathetic vendetta against Stephen Pressley, purely because he signed for Celtic, the rantings of a diseased mind perhaps......

 

IMO Scottish football would be better off without both of the bigot brothers but sometimes when I read posts on here I wonder if it would be better off without Hearts also

Football should be about football not politics, religion, bigotry or anything else

I take it thats too much to ask for

[King of the North]

yeah, this k.o.t.n chappy is offering serious bias towards the smelltic side of things.if they have no baggage then,

 

 

have you never saw,at tynecastle,all them sniper reenactments from the slimes part of the ground ????

 

how about the "jungle",u remember that ???? with all those lovely songs emanating forth.that sentiment never dies

 

what about the "collections" at parkhead and various hostelries in that area of the weedge

 

hows about,the busload that got off at roseburn a couple of years ago,where one confronted some hearts fans with an provo reenactment to much hooting from his fellow ****bags

 

 

 

........and theyve won the pr war,,,?????

 

 

youve been watching setanta too much and also keenly participating in their televised euro nights my son.that is the only factor in how smellsic have redeemed themselves in the past few years,theyve become more universal.rangers are not flavour of the month because of all the political swings re independence and the sinnfein and the unionists taking the english govts money in the past few years...........

 

so please,dont give celtic the nod.theyre just as bad as each other

 

Not sure what your point is.

 

You list some examples of the kind of things Celtic fans get up to - none of which I dispute.

 

You then ask whther they have won the PR war, then point out how they have managed to do it, thus answering your own question. Celtic have won the PR war largely by behaving themselves when the spotlight is on them, and become the cuddly plastics that the Euro TV commentators love. As you point out.

 

The point of this thread is that Rangers fans seem unable and unwilling to do this. No bias in that at all, just opinion shared by many which is borne out by factual evidence.

 

Coppercrutch, I assume you are still reading the Times article. Some tricky words in there, I know, so use this http://dictionary.reference.com/ and when you are finished you can get back to me apologising for calling me delusional and in need of help.

[Makween]

It wasn't that long a paragraph, and there ought to have been enough syntax that you could cope with it If it is indeed "opinion" then feel free to refute any of it.

 

You are contradicting yourself now. Britain is not a nation. You called it a country, and that is probably correct in that it has defined borders, passports and international recognition. If you can distinguish being British as something tangible and not just an amalgam of Scottishness, Welshness and Englishness or things that are associated with the old Empire such as tea and conquering foreign countries, then well done for you(this would of course make Britishness an anachronism as the Empire is gone!).

 

I've not hailed anything as progressive politics, merely as a likely and logical path...perhaps not an inevitability, as that would be presumptuous on my part

 

I'm amused by your argument about me being both "prejudiced" and "bigotted", but I sense you are getting frustrated and that these inflamatory terms are being used as pseudo-intellectual name-calling...Thanks for not saying I have Timpathetic tendencies:p

 

There was just about enough syntax for me to cope with it, you're right. Thanks for that, it's always nice when the intellectual heavyweights are prepared to lower themselves to my level.

 

If we're going to be pedantic about the difference between a nation and a country, so be it - Britain's undoubtedly a sovereign country. My point, pedants notwithstanding, was that pride in being British is pride in the country that you come from - which can't be defined as bigotry. You say that British culture's outdated, but what of Scottish culture?

 

By the way, I didn't actually call you prejudiced. I said that you have prejudices - as do we all.

 

You do not have a clue do you?

 

 

The name Christian has been put to much over the last 2,000 years - 90% of it at least the misappropriation of political power (from Constantine on, down through the Crusades and up to the present day) and as far from true Christianity as it's possible to get!

 

You run away and catch your bus, just as you're running away from the truth - and while you may or may not catch your bus - one day the truth will catch up with you!!!

 

"True" Christianity?

 

Who defines what that is? Is it you? Can you deny that, in the name of Christianity, countless atrocities have been perpetrated throughout history?

 

I did actually catch the bus. Thanks for asking.

 

LOL So is Britain. The Act of Union provided the English with the boundary security from which their navy, army and traders could venture farther afield.

 

So Europe's a country, is it?

[MacDonald Jardine]

Not sure what your point is.

 

You list some examples of the kind of things Celtic fans get up to - none of which I dispute.

 

You then ask whther they have won the PR war, then point out how they have managed to do it, thus answering your own question. Celtic have won the PR war largely by behaving themselves when the spotlight is on them, and become the cuddly plastics that the Euro TV commentators love. As you point out.

 

The point of this thread is that Rangers fans seem unable and unwilling to do this. No bias in that at all, just opinion shared by many which is borne out by factual evidence.

 

Coppercrutch, I assume you are still reading the Times article. Some tricky words in there, I know, so use this http://dictionary.reference.com/ and when you are finished you can get back to me apologising for calling me delusional and in need of help.

 

You really are a sanctimonious so and so aren't you.

The fact someone doesn't agree with your somewhat narrow interpretation doesn't mean they are incapable of understanding the argument.

[coppercrutch]

 

Nobody has suggested that these other football supporter groups don't have any problems at all or an undesirable element of their support. They just have far LESS than Rangers.

 

(Rangers) - They are the problem - not Celtic, not the OF, not Scottish Football[/u']

 

there is an image problem, that is VERY SPECIFIC to Rangers FC. Not Celtic, not Scottish football. It attracts low life fans[/u']

 

Case dismissed.

 

Replace your 'nobody' with 'King of the North' and your post makes perfect sense.

 

[King of the North]

Case dismissed.

 

Replace your 'nobody' with 'King of the North' and your post makes perfect sense.

 

 

You are remarkable - and you have done it spectacularly in the past as well. You lose an argument, demonstrate that you have lost it, then claim to have won it. As I say, remarkable.

 

The points made on this thread are crystal clear. At no time did I or anyone else suggest that Rangers have a monopoly on low life fans. They do have very specific problems. Which are well documented.

 

If you want to debate about these problems, their causes and why they affect Rangers so specifically, there are numerous great posts you could respond to. It is pointless arguing with me about 'Why I said no other club apart from Rangers has a single dodgy fan', because I never said that.

 

Again, I suggest you go back and read the entire thread. You might learn something.

[King of the North]

You really are a sanctimonious so and so aren't you.

The fact someone doesn't agree with your somewhat narrow interpretation doesn't mean they are incapable of understanding the argument.

 

In this case, it does.

 

The point is that Rangers have a massive image problem, and that they have a huge amount of work to do to eradicate this.

 

The poster in question seems to want a different argument altogether, which means in this case he is incapable of understanding the argument.

[coppercrutch]

You are remarkable - and you have done it spectacularly in the past as well. You lose an argument, demonstrate that you have lost it, then claim to have won it. As I say, remarkable.

 

The points made on this thread are crystal clear. At no time did I or anyone else suggest that Rangers have a monopoly on low life fans. They do have very specific problems. Which are well documented.

 

If you want to debate about these problems, their causes and why they affect Rangers so specifically, there are numerous great posts you could respond to. It is pointless arguing with me about 'Why I said no other club apart from Rangers has a single dodgy fan', because I never said that.

 

Again, I suggest you go back and read the entire thread. You might learn something.

 

there is an image problem, that is VERY SPECIFIC to Rangers FC. Not Celtic, not Scottish football. It attracts low life fans

 

Explain in one sentence other wise just give it a rest.

[luckydug]

Better get started then.

If you take 16,000 Hearts fans at Tynecastle for a home game I'm sure more than 2 (rounding up) would hold similar views.

 

 

 

I thought I read somewhere that Hearts had an estimated 400,000 fans worldwide. Any way you are missing the point as I did obviously.

[Charlie-Brown]

What do Rangers 'fans' beliefs ACTUALLY stand for any more?

 

The troubles are over......both ROI & NI are peaceful modern democratic nations......Great Britain is a multi-cultural evolving democracy with increasing devolution & self determination for member countries, regions & even cities............the civil wars they sing about were over centuries ago - the paramilitary organisations names they chant are redundant and most are little more than a front for organised crime.........protestant church attendances have been consistantly falling away for decades with many parish churches merging or closing...........SO WHAT PRECISELY DO THEY STAND FOR THAT IS RELEVANT IN A MODERN CONTEXT?

[King of the North]

Explain in one sentence other wise just give it a rest.

 

jeeeeez

 

Rangers FC have a very specific image problems which attracts low life fans. Nowhere in that sentence do I infer or suggest that other clubs do not have their own sort of low lifes, but this particular club have a lot of work to do to solve their specific problem, which is far bigger than any other club.

 

I really cannot make it any simpler - and yes I know that was two sentences....