Feeno Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Arent they more a 4-4-1-1 with Rooney sitting deeper behind Hernandez or Welbeck? yes and that has only really came about since scholes retired/got older. the we're a proponent of the 4-2-3-1 for long enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 wasn't specifically aimed at you mate. I'm staggered that we'd even be looking at a guy with that kind of fitness levels when we haven't a pot to piss in. Any notion that Craig Beattie will fire us to Champions League qualification is on a par with Craig Whyte's understanding of business. None of us know what the guy's fitness level is presently and none of us know what the terms of his contract will be. It may be pay as you play or something similar and he may be ready for first team football. If you were at the game on Saturday, you'd probably have seen how awful we are up front at the moment. Beattie is strong and will give us more presence up front than what we currently have and we absolutely have to do something. It may be a risk but it might just be worth it. Writing him off as a "rusty cripple" already is just daft. Give the guy a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenor Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Kyle wasn't a massively prolific goalscorer before he came to us, but look at what he did to the team when he was on the park. I reckon Beattie could fill that role! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoseLikeMahe Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Shouldn't be signing anyone until the club can consistently meet it's existing financial obligations on time... and fans looking over at Govan should learn from that and not pressure the club to spend yet more money they don't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 wasn't specifically aimed at you mate. I'm staggered that we'd even be looking at a guy with that kind of fitness levels when we haven't a pot to piss in. Any notion that Craig Beattie will fire us to Champions League qualification is on a par with Craig Whyte's understanding of business. Cool, Nah, I do get what you are saying. He is a bit of a risk as he has a history of injury problems... thing is though, that is the only way we will get a possible decent player at this point in the season probably, free agent strikers at this time of year are going to either be shit or have a big question mark over their head for one reason or another. maybe I am clutching at straws mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent B.A Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 yes and that has only really came about since scholes retired/got older. the we're a proponent of the 4-2-3-1 for long enough When Hernandez and Berbatov play up top together its a 4-4-2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Team Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Ryan Stevenson last game for hearts was on the 19th december but if you want to keep believing he hasnt played since october bash on! Wow - you nothing more contructive to add than that? Im on the money with my point - Ryan Stevenson was a midfielder playing as a striker and is still second top scorer with FOUR goals despite not playing for the club for the last TWO months. Is that good enough for Hearts? No... Have a go at debating that point rather than wetting your pants on details? Maybe telling me how many minutes of football has been played since Mr Stevenson last pulled on a Hearts jersey in anger is more to your style? Bash on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudiboy Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Can someone name a top team that play a 4-4-2? Newcastle are going well this season, and have been playing Ba and Cisse together and before that Ameobi and Ba, or Ba and Leon Best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 None of us know what the guy's fitness level is presently and none of us know what the terms of his contract will be. It may be pay as you play or something similar and he may be ready for first team football. If you were at the game on Saturday, you'd probably have seen how awful we are up front at the moment. Beattie is strong and will give us more presence up front than what we currently have and we absolutely have to do something. It may be a risk but it might just be worth it. Writing him off as a "rusty cripple" already is just daft. Give the guy a chance. Cosa our lack of anything up top is not new news. It has been like this since August. I'd have thought if it was that obvious then perhaps we'd have done something about it in January? Instead we've farmed out a 19 goal striker who was continually improving and we're now proposing to bring in a guy, who apparently isn't a front man in the traditional sense, with around 40 games in 3 years. Now he's either a 'rusty cripple' who has spent two thirds of the last 3 years injured or he's actually been fit and not getting a game due to lack of ability. Neither of which are what we really need to solve our inability to hit a bull up the arse with a shovel. Our problems under Paolo Sergio stem from how we play as much as who we play. Sometimes we get away with it and quite often we don't (usually away from home). Craig Beattie and 4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-5-1, 4-1-4-1 or any combination therein are unlikely to change that i'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Cosa our lack of anything up top is not new news. It has been like this since August. I'd have thought if it was that obvious then perhaps we'd have done something about it in January? Instead we've farmed out a 19 goal striker who was continually improving and we're now proposing to bring in a guy, who apparently isn't a front man in the traditional sense, with around 40 games in 3 years. Now he's either a 'rusty cripple' who has spent two thirds of the last 3 years injured or he's actually been fit and not getting a game due to lack of ability. Neither of which are what we really need to solve our inability to hit a bull up the arse with a shovel. Our problems under Paolo Sergio stem from how we play as much as who we play. Sometimes we get away with it and quite often we don't (usually away from home). Craig Beattie and 4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-5-1, 4-1-4-1 or any combination therein are unlikely to change that i'm afraid. I didn't agree with sending Sutton away either but he's gone and we need to live with it. Elliott is completely incapable of playing with his back to goal. He doesn't have the strength, the physical presence or the first touch. Beattie might just be able to play that role that Kevin Kyle did for us. Swansea have some other pretty decent players and have been promoted from the Championship into the Premiership so not getting a game at that sort of level is no shame. If he was getting a game at that level, we wouldn't be able to sign him. We need something new badly and I've always thought he was decent when he played against us a younger player. Look at Andy Webster's injury record before Dundee United signed him. It's exactly the sort of gamble that might pay off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMFC DkB Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Wow - you nothing more contructive to add than that? Im on the money with my point - Ryan Stevenson was a midfielder playing as a striker and is still second top scorer with FOUR goals despite not playing for the club for the last TWO months. Is that good enough for Hearts? No... Have a go at debating that point rather than wetting your pants on details? Maybe telling me how many minutes of football has been played since Mr Stevenson last pulled on a Hearts jersey in anger is more to your style? Bash on... wetting my pants? haha okay! you got it wrong and i think you knew you got it wrong to try and make your point. hearts are in the 1/4s of the scottish cup (with a great chance of the semi) and still in with a great shout of european qualification so a pretty successful season you must agree? who gives a **** who scores the goals? hearts have not had a proper goalscorer since robbo and it wont change anytime soon IMO!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Sheldon Cooper Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Completely wrong. You can play 4-4-2 but 4-5-1 can be such a varied formation even calling it 4-5-1 hides the number of ways 4-5-1 can be played and be attacking. 4-2-3-1, 4-1-2-2-1, 4-3-2-1. People seem to think that in this country 4-5-1 equals to the extrememly negative football that got Rangers to the final of the Eufa cup or that Scotland used to beat France, i.e. everyone behind the ball with one lone striker isolated requiring long balls to be punted up to get to him which can usually be cut out by a decent back four. But take 4-2-3-1, it can be a much more positive formation if done right. You need a defensive midfielder alongside a creative midfielder, so one helps break up the play while the other uses creative play of the ball to get the ball forward. The 3 is made up of players who are attacking, in fact the two wingers when on attack can even move up to be extra forwards. While the player in the middle provides the option through the middle who can strike a knocked down ball or make the late run into the box. A way to look at 4-2-3-1 is that it is the football evolution of 4-4-2. Modern football in the last decade has shown the rise of the power of a midfield. In an attempt to strengthen the midfield, one of the strikers has dropped deeper and provides the extra man to break up the midfield and also can be an advanced playmaker. Spot on . Too many folk on here see 4-5-1 as a negative formation and a negative formation only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Newcastle are going well this season, and have been playing Ba and Cisse together and before that Ameobi and Ba, or Ba and Leon Best. Top team though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnking123 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yes, but we really do lack the midfield for 442. Thats the main problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Hearts are never going to be a "Top Team". It's pretending to be by playing 1 striker that's got us in this mess. Hope this clarifies, Jamiej. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Man U Very rarely, only when Rooney not fit and even then your talking once or twice a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 wetting my pants? haha okay! you got it wrong and i think you knew you got it wrong to try and make your point. hearts are in the 1/4s of the scottish cup (with a great chance of the semi) and still in with a great shout of european qualification so a pretty successful season you must agree? who gives a **** who scores the goals? hearts have not had a proper goalscorer since robbo and it wont change anytime soon IMO!! MDV was a proper goalscorer i'd say. Well in his first season anyway. Rudi and Hartley were also good goalscorer's for Hearts. Shame we can never seem to find decent strikers though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 So am I reading this right? A guy that hasn't kicked a ball for 3 years is going to transform the way we play? I'm ready to be enlightened. When you lack an attacking threat you jump at any new option. He won't alter how we play but may fill the role better than sutton and take some pressure off 2 t's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudiboy Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Top team though? Currently one of the top 6 teams in the EPL, above the likes of Liverpool and Everton, I would call that a top team. The league doesn't lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Very rarely, only when Rooney not fit and even then your talking once or twice a season. Porto were amazing last season with Hulk and Falcao up front but you're right, most teams seem to favour flexible formations with advanced midfielders and wingers supporting one main striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yes, but we really do lack the midfield for 442. Thats the main problem Precisely. Only with a superior midfield allows the luxury of 2 out and out strikers. We simply don't have the midfield superiority in ability to allow this. Therefore 4-5-1 allows a more flexible formation, but also to offer 5 in midfield if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenor Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Anyone else spotted Beattie in Edinburgh this morning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMFC DkB Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 MDV was a proper goalscorer i'd say. Well in his first season anyway. Rudi and Hartley were also good goalscorer's for Hearts. Shame we can never seem to find decent strikers though. De vries? maybe still woundnt class him as an out and out goalscorer rudi and hartley were/are great goalscoring midfielders! put them upfront and they would be lost! we have had plenty decent strikers in recent years, jani, bednar, pinilla which has been the reason hartley and skacel get so many goals from midfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hansel Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Anyone else spotted Beattie in Edinburgh this morning? Bet ye a tenor ye didnae! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Porto were amazing last season with Hulk and Falcao up front but you're right, most teams seem to favour flexible formations with advanced midfielders and wingers supporting one main striker. Hulk played RW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndawgylt Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 So he is supposed to be signing today? If it's not announced by the 3pm press conference cut off point then I'll eat my hat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Rom?n Riquelme Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Paulo just needs to open up the team instructions menu and select fluid instead of rigid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Mark Benstead @markbenstead my understanding #hearts will finally confirm deal for former #celtic striker craig beattie shortly. will sign until end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Hearts are never going to be a "Top Team". It's pretending to be by playing 1 striker that's got us in this mess. Hope this clarifies, Jamie. Never said anything about Hearts being a "top team" Just asked the question how many top teams actually play what many think to be the holy grail of formations 4-4-2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Team Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 wetting my pants? haha okay! you got it wrong and i think you knew you got it wrong to try and make your point. hearts are in the 1/4s of the scottish cup (with a great chance of the semi) and still in with a great shout of european qualification so a pretty successful season you must agree? who gives a **** who scores the goals? hearts have not had a proper goalscorer since robbo and it wont change anytime soon IMO!! Nah - Im not some anal retentive stats freak. All I know is that I feels like a long time since I saw Stevenson playing - and he was on the bench a few times before he finally checked it. The detail is not a deal breaker and my point that still stands. Our second top goal scorer is a midfielder that doesnt even play for us anymore. 4 goals! And I dont agree this has been a successful season. We still have the 3rd biggest wage bill in Scotland and too many players have not delivered. We are very rarely good to watch, we dont score enough goals, we have a shocking away record. I expect us to struggle to hold on to 4th in the league, even if we do beat St Mirren I dont see us progressing past the semi finals of the cup unless we get Ayr! We finally agree on something - we havnt had a goal scorer worthy of the name since Robbo although there have been some cult heroes since then. Sadly the days of us being able to hold on to a striker of that quality if we ever fund one are slim. We must find a couple of strikers that can weigh in with at least 10 to 15 goals though and midfielders that can contribute too. Beattie is an option - in the absence of any others I think he is worth a razzle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggo Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 How many tactical experts are actually on here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.T.K Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 How many tactical experts are actually on here? Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Tactics lesson no1. You piss with the ****** you've got! We barely have 1 striker so why people want 442 is beyond me! Our midfield isnt good enough for 442. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenor Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 How many tactical experts are actually on here? I won the SPL with Hearts on FIFA '11... ... just sayin'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenor Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Tactics lesson no1. You piss with the ****** you've got! We barely have 1 striker so why people want 442 is beyond me! Our midfield isnt good enough for 442. Well I was saying IF we get Beattie (which seems likely now), then 4-4-2 (which could be played more like a 4-4-1-1 or some other variant) would be good to try. Elliott NEEDS help up front, in the form of a strong target man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H J Simpson Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 MDV was a proper goalscorer i'd say. Well in his first season anyway. Rudi and Hartley were also good goalscorer's for Hearts. Shame we can never seem to find decent strikers though. I miss Velicka - he knew where the back of the net was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Morgan Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Anyone else spotted Beattie in Edinburgh this morning? Yeah, he's at Riccarton and will be wearing the number 4 shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMFC DkB Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Nah - Im not some anal retentive stats freak. All I know is that I feels like a long time since I saw Stevenson playing - and he was on the bench a few times before he finally checked it. The detail is not a deal breaker and my point that still stands. Our second top goal scorer is a midfielder that doesnt even play for us anymore. 4 goals! And I dont agree this has been a successful season. We still have the 3rd biggest wage bill in Scotland and too many players have not delivered. We are very rarely good to watch, we dont score enough goals, we have a shocking away record. I expect us to struggle to hold on to 4th in the league, even if we do beat St Mirren I dont see us progressing past the semi finals of the cup unless we get Ayr! We finally agree on something - we havnt had a goal scorer worthy of the name since Robbo although there have been some cult heroes since then. Sadly the days of us being able to hold on to a striker of that quality if we ever fund one are slim. We must find a couple of strikers that can weigh in with at least 10 to 15 goals though and midfielders that can contribute too. Beattie is an option - in the absence of any others I think he is worth a razzle stats freak? cause i knew stevenson played after october so checked his last game, get a grip eh? think your still upset you got it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Well I was saying IF we get Beattie (which seems likely now), then 4-4-2 (which could be played more like a 4-4-1-1 or some other variant) would be good to try. Elliott NEEDS help up front, in the form of a strong target man. Wasnt a dig mate, we dont have the players to play two up top so a good coach finds a way with what he has. Elliott needs help but the midfield should be providing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenor Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yeah, he's at Riccarton and will be wearing the number 14 shirt. FTFY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMFC DkB Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yeah, he's at Riccarton and will be wearing the number 4 shirt. will it be the new 3rd kit that we were wearing at tanadice earlier in the season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenor Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Wasnt a dig mate, we dont have the players to play two up top so a good coach finds a way with what he has. Elliott needs help but the midfield should be providing this. I know mate but I had mentioned before about a 4-4-2 and didn't really explain myself, then I didn't get a chance after people were slating it... so I had to stay quiet for a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Morgan Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 will it be the new 3rd kit that we were wearing at tanadice earlier in the season? Just wait and see, Mr stats freak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Tactics lesson no1. You piss with the ****** you've got! We barely have 1 striker so why people want 442 is beyond me! Our midfield isnt good enough for 442. Bollocks. Black abd Robinson are a more than capable SPL midfield. Infact I couldn't name a better partnership outwith the OF. I wouldn't swap Lasley for Black or Robinson TBH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Hulk played RW. Played through the middle a lot as well, particularly in the 2nd half of games. Kind of like the way Neil McCann did for us during his 1st spell. Their natural fitness and speed were pretty deadly through the middle when opponents were tiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 No4 shirt! On a stricker! Would you adam and eve it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMFC DkB Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Just wait and see, Mr stats freak. i cant wait though! haha you could get lucky with this guess cause 4 is not already used by a member of the squad and it looks like beattie will sign, i think he should get number 1 though Mr stats freak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Spot on . Too many folk on here see 4-5-1 as a negative formation and a negative formation only. It is negative. 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-1-1 or whatever way you want to spin it its a negative set up imo. The reason so matches get bogged down in midfield is exactly this formations fault. In fact I'd go as far to say its the formation which has ruined football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groot Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Newcastle are going well this season, and have been playing Ba and Cisse together and before that Ameobi and Ba, or Ba and Leon Best. previously when Best or Ameobi played generally it is in a withdrawn position on the wing, it's only with Cisse that they have gone fully with the 2 up front but that meant they started playing Ryan Taylor wide midfield opposite Guttierez to solidify the midfield so they sacrificed an attacking minded midfielder to allow a more orthodox front man to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Team Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 stats freak? cause i knew stevenson played after october so checked his last game, get a grip eh? think your still upset you got it wrong. Ok so you were right and I was wrong - feel better now? I couldnt be bothered to check because when he last played was NOT THAT IMPORTANT IN THE CONTEXT OF THE POINT I WAS MAKING... How's about some meaningful comment from you? You up to that? Do you think the fact Stevenson is our second top scorer with 4 goals is ok because he played til December and not October? What upsets me is how absurd your replies are - can you imagine being in a pub and having this conversation with me..."no stop big man - never mind our poor goal scoring record...thats irrelevant! I must point out Ryan played til mid December...not October as you claim...get it right eh?" Youd certainly be good for a laugh but I doubt youd last very long! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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