Brexit?

[aussieh]

So if N.I can stay in the EU by reunification with Ireland and East Germany can join without problems through reunification with the west, both becoming bigger states within the Eu. Then Scotland can remain a member as an existing state becoming smaller. Just a thought.

[Harry Potter]

Yes and no

On the fence then.

[Adam Murray]

So if N.I can stay in the EU by reunification with Ireland and East Germany can join without problems through reunification with the west, both becoming bigger states within the Eu. Then Scotland can remain a member as an existing state becoming smaller. Just a thought.

 

 

Scotland is currently not a member state of the EU

 

https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/countries/member-countries_en

[Seymour M Hersh]

difficult to argue with that!

 

 

Mebbies aye, mebbies naw! 

[aussieh]

Scotland is currently not a member state of the EU

 

https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/countries/member-countries_en

Neither are England, but if Scotland had voted yes in 2014 they'd have stayed, supposedly. Why? Surely it works both ways.

[Adam Murray]

Neither are England, but if Scotland had voted yes in 2014 they'd have stayed, supposedly. Why? Surely it works both ways.

 

 

England, along with Wales and Northern Ireland would still be classed as the United Kingdom, hence the numerous references during Indyref1 of rUK

[Jambo-Jimbo]

So if N.I can stay in the EU by reunification with Ireland and East Germany can join without problems through reunification with the west, both becoming bigger states within the Eu. Then Scotland can remain a member as an existing state becoming smaller. Just a thought.

 

East Germany didn't join the EU through unification with West Germany, the European Union didn't come about until 1993, German reunification happened in 1990, 3 years before the European Union existed.  West Germany was a member of the European Community when German reunification happened, but I get what your saying.

 

N. Ireland isn't a member of the EU either, it's the UK that holds the membership, not the individual devolved countries or parliaments within the UK.

When the UK leaves the EU it leaves as a whole and that includes Scotland, England, N. Ireland & Wales, not as individual countries or states within the UK.

 

[Francis Albert]

So if N.I can stay in the EU by reunification with Ireland and East Germany can join without problems through reunification with the west, both becoming bigger states within the Eu. Then Scotland can remain a member as an existing state becoming smaller. Just a thought.

so who would scotland unite with to remain the eu. Ireland? Germany? Or maybe our auld alliance partner France?

[aussieh]

England, along with Wales and Northern Ireland would still be classed as the United Kingdom, hence the numerous references during Indyref1 of rUK

You're wrong both would be new States, the union of parliaments is Scotland and England, so it can be fought in court whether England or rUK keeps membership2014 or Scotland as a smaller state keeps membership 2020?.

[aussieh]

so who would scotland unite with to remain the eu. Ireland? Germany? Or maybe our auld alliance partner France?

Its a smaller state of a current member, just like rUK.

[aussieh]

East Germany didn't join the EU through unification with West Germany, the European Union didn't come about until 1993, German reunification happened in 1990, 3 years before the European Union existed. West Germany was a member of the European Community when German reunification happened, but I get what your saying.

 

N. Ireland isn't a member of the EU either, it's the UK that holds the membership, not the individual devolved countries or parliaments within the UK.

When the UK leaves the EU it leaves as a whole and that includes Scotland, England, N. Ireland & Wales, not as individual countries or states within the UK.

In your opinion, I beg to differ.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Ukip The guard dogs of brexit. Racists just like the rest of the leave mob.

And the SNP

[aussieh]

And the SNP

Just a response to Rudi, who classes Yes voters who want Scotland to govern itself as xenophobic English haters. Wm isn't England, tho' sometimes passion can maybe sound like it is. But they're not given the same benefit of the doubt, unlike when leave voters are classed as ukip racist little Englanders. It's no, no, no.

Sometimes you've got to crude to get your point across. Does it make me look bad, well... :Shrug:

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Just a response to Rudi, who classes Yes voters who want Scotland to govern itself as xenophobic English haters. Wm isn't England, tho' sometimes passion can maybe sound like it is. But they're not given the same benefit of the doubt, unlike when leave voters are classed as ukip racist little Englanders. It's no, no, no.

Sometimes you've got to crude to get your point across. Does it make me look bad, well... :Shrug:

UKIP are racist at heart. And to be honest, you come across as very anti English. That's the way I see it.

 

Mind you, this is about Brexit and Brexit is bad news. Think we both agree on that.

[Adam Murray]

You're wrong both would be new States, the union of parliaments is Scotland and England, so it can be fought in court whether England or rUK keeps membership2014 or Scotland as a smaller state keeps membership 2020?.

 

By that logic then, if any of the Spanish regions were to gain their independence from Spain, would that take Spain out of the EU?

 

Also by that logic, if Scotland had gained Independence in 2014, would they have dragged England, Wales and Northern Ireland out of the EU against their will?

 

Regardless the legality of it all, it won't really matter, as by the time any Indy2 is decided upon, the whole of The United Kingdom, as decided by the people of The United Kingdom, will be out of the EU.

[Francis Albert]

Its a smaller state of a current member, just like rUK.

ok so it isn't like the examples you quoted. And scotland isn't a state.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

People arguing logic against McGlashan will soon realise it is a pointless exercise.

 

I also love how Nats hold Norway up as a role model for an independent Scotland, yet Norway is quite content outside of the EU.

 

If and when the UK-EU deal becomes a Norway Mark II, which it will as money talks on both sides, how will the McGlashans react?

[Cade]

Merkel says no trade deals at the same time as Brexit deals.

 

First, you leave.

 

THEN you negotiate a trade deal from the outside.

 

It's falling apart already.

[aussieh]

By that logic then, if any of the Spanish regions were to gain their independence from Spain, would that take Spain out of the EU?

 

Also by that logic, if Scotland had gained Independence in 2014, would they have dragged England, Wales and Northern Ireland out of the EU against their will?

 

Regardless the legality of it all, it won't really matter, as by the time any Indy2 is decided upon, the whole of The United Kingdom, as decided by the people of The United Kingdom, will be out of the EU.

If Spain lose Catalonia, they'll be in trouble. Skint!!!!

[aussieh]

People arguing logic against McGlashan will soon realise it is a pointless exercise.

 

I also love how Nats hold Norway up as a role model for an independent Scotland, yet Norway is quite content outside of the EU.

 

If and when the UK-EU deal becomes a Norway Mark II, which it will as money talks on both sides, how will the McGlashans react?

How will skidmark react with Irish reunification?

Anyway GK, why is it not possible. It's unknown territory or do we just do as we're told? I look forward to Scotland repealing the act of settlement.

[aussieh]

Merkel says no trade deals at the same time as Brexit deals.

 

First, you leave.

 

THEN you negotiate a trade deal from the outside.

 

It's falling apart already.

I said that months ago.

[aussieh]

By that logic then, if any of the Spanish regions were to gain their independence from Spain, would that take Spain out of the EU?

 

Also by that logic, if Scotland had gained Independence in 2014, would they have dragged England, Wales and Northern Ireland out of the EU against their will?

 

Regardless the legality of it all, it won't really matter, as by the time any Indy2 is decided upon, the whole of The United Kingdom, as decided by the people of The United Kingdom, will be out of the EU.

No we won't, unlucky.

 

I thought you liked unions? Oh right not ones you don't rule.

[Adam Murray]

No we won't, unlucky.

 

I thought you liked unions? Oh right not ones you don't rule.

 

Right enough

 

Tick Tock

 

Mintit

 

Is that right?

 

Should be used to it by now, you've been saying it for over four years now

[AlphonseCapone]

Merkel says no trade deals at the same time as Brexit deals.

 

First, you leave.

 

THEN you negotiate a trade deal from the outside.

 

It's falling apart already.

I'd be interested on hearing a brexiteers opinion on this. Two years to leave plus, what is the average time to negotiate a deal with the EU?

[aussieh]

UKIP are racist at heart. And to be honest, you come across as very anti English. That's the way I see it.

 

Mind you, this is about Brexit and Brexit is bad news. Think we both agree on that.

Listen Dawny, why are people so don't ad against any deal for Scotland, it could help save their union. Is it because it's the SNP? I'm told we're not respecting the 1m leavers. Well I don't see any respect for the 1.6m remainers or 1.6m Yes supporters for that matter.

Only orders given, nothing else. You Cannae date this you Cannae date that, I'm just asking , WHY?

[aussieh]

Right enough

 

Tick Tock

 

Mintit

 

Is that right?

 

Should be used to it by now, you've been saying it for over four years now

"It always seems impossible, until it's done"

 

?

[aussieh]

Listen Dawny, why are people so against any deal for Scotland, it could help save their union. Is it because it's the SNP? I'm told we're not respecting the 1m leavers. Well I don't see any respect for the 1.6m remainers or 1.6m Yes supporters for that matter.

Only orders given, nothing else. You Cannae date this you Cannae date that, I'm just asking , WHY?

[Cade]

I'd be interested on hearing a brexiteers opinion on this. Two years to leave plus, what is the average time to negotiate a deal with the EU?

3-5 years is normal, but the larger your economy, the longer it takes.

 

It took Canada 11 years.

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

3-5 years is normal, but the larger your economy, the longer it takes.

 

It took Canada 11 years.

The difference here is that there are existing relationships and no current trade barriers.

 

Merkel's statement is to keep negotiations going through Barnier as opposed to bilateral negotiations with each government. It's a sensible approach.

 

Also, reverting to WTO rules would hit Germany far harder than the UK. That trade surplus is quite valuable.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Listen Dawny, why are people so don't ad against any deal for Scotland, it could help save their union. Is it because it's the SNP? I'm told we're not respecting the 1m leavers. Well I don't see any respect for the 1.6m remainers or 1.6m Yes supporters for that matter.

Only orders given, nothing else. You Cannae date this you Cannae date that, I'm just asking , WHY?

What are you on about? Your rants are getting harder to understand on a daily basis.

[jambo lodge]

I'd be interested on hearing a brexiteers opinion on this. Two years to leave plus, what is the average time to negotiate a deal with the EU?

 

Politicians on all sides say things in public and do the opposite in private. The UK is not Canada or some other country wanting to do business with the EU. Merkel will pull the strings at the EU but she will be under huge pressure from Deutsche Bank, BMW, Audi, Siemens, BASF etc to do a deal in record time..........or at least come to a transitional agreement to allow free trade to continue.  

[Seymour M Hersh]

What are you on about? Your rants are getting harder to understand on a daily basis.

 

Well done you for ever being able to understand the gash he comes out with. 

[JamboX2]

Neither are England, but if Scotland had voted yes in 2014 they'd have stayed, supposedly. Why? Surely it works both ways.

No. I've said to you before that had Scotland left the UK it would be a NEW nation in legal terms leaving an existing state. The UK would continue to fulfill it's international obligations and Scotland would start a fresh with no international obligations.

 

If Northern Ireland joins Ireland it joins an existing international legal entity and becomes part of that country, bound by it's laws and international obligations.

 

East Germany (DDR) decided to disband itself and unify with West Germany . By doing so it gave up it's international obligations and joined the Federal Republic of Germany. The "Two Plus Four Treaty" declared East Germany non-existent and recognised West Germany as the continuing nation state. They then changed the nation's name to Germany.

 

A little bit of background reading coukd help clear this up.

[aussieh]

No. I've said to you before that had Scotland left the UK it would be a NEW nation in legal terms leaving an existing state. The UK would continue to fulfill it's international obligations and Scotland would start a fresh with no international obligations.

 

If Northern Ireland joins Ireland it joins an existing international legal entity and becomes part of that country, bound by it's laws and international obligations.

 

East Germany (DDR) decided to disband itself and unify with West Germany . By doing so it gave up it's international obligations and joined the Federal Republic of Germany. The "Two Plus Four Treaty" declared East Germany non-existent and recognised West Germany as the continuing nation state. They then changed the nation's name to Germany.

 

A little bit of background reading coukd help clear this up.

No, a bit of arguing in court would be better than your opinion of what rUK would be.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

No, a bit of arguing in court would be better than your opinion of what rUK would be.

What court?

[aussieh]

What court?

Is your ignore button Fecked.

[aussieh]

What court?

ICoA

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Is your ignore button Fecked.

No. Why do you think you're on my list?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

ICoA

Yes, I can see it now.

 

"So the UK signed this treaty and a part of the UK seceded. Therefore, it's clear that the part that seceded is the successor country. Case dismissed".

[The Don]

so wanting to leave the EU means your a UKIP supporting racist. Just not enough faceplams for the mindset of the gnats that think this way.

 

Wonder how that works with the high percentage of SNP voters that voted to leave the EU? Wonder how that fits with nearly half the SNP party who were arguing for leaving the EU until wee nippy imposed her whips to told the MP's and MSP's they MUST toe HER party line and vote to remain or they would be sacked. The kind of democracy we expect from the SNP now.

 

Same rhetoric from the gnats over and over if you want out the EU your a racist if you don't want independence your a English loving traitor.

 

There's one very real xenophobic bigoted party and that's the SNP and many of its extremists.

 

Anyway onwards and upwards.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Unknown user]

I suppose I should be more concerned, bit at the end of the day, I know I'll be able to stay here in Holland.

The uk has been part of the EU for too long- imagine how messy it would be to say all UK nationals in the eu have lost the right to stay in their country of choice, although they own property, run businesses, have wee dutch citizen kids and what have you.

 

The Gibraltar question is intriguing though, they must be shitting themselves.

Even as part of the EU, Spain thinks nothing of slowing border traffic down to a crawl, just for the inconvenience - they're not suddenly going to turn friendly and helpful!

[Seymour M Hersh]

I suppose I should be more concerned, bit at the end of the day, I know I'll be able to stay here in Holland.

The uk has been part of the EU for too long- imagine how messy it would be to say all UK nationals in the eu have lost the right to stay in their country of choice, although they own property, run businesses, have wee dutch citizen kids and what have you.

 

The Gibraltar question is intriguing though, they must be shitting themselves.

Even as part of the EU, Spain thinks nothing of slowing border traffic down to a crawl, just for the inconvenience - they're not suddenly going to turn friendly and helpful!

 

Davies is pushing to get that very subject settled first when the talks start for both EU citizens here and folk like yourself. 

[Unknown user]

Davies is pushing to get that very subject settled first when the talks start for both EU citizens here and folk like yourself.

Like I say, I'm not worried, but then we've been here long enough to get dutch citizenship now if we absolutely had to.

 

I think people need to start realising though that things won't be helped by the perception that Britain's basically going "**** you EU, we're leaving, and you better give us what we want or there'll be trouble"

 

That might play just great in the daily mail and what have you, but a more mature approach and conciliatory tone to negotiating a deal is needed.

Goodwill is a big word.

[The Don]

I suppose I should be more concerned, bit at the end of the day, I know I'll be able to stay here in Holland.

The uk has been part of the EU for too long- imagine how messy it would be to say all UK nationals in the eu have lost the right to stay in their country of choice, although they own property, run businesses, have wee dutch citizen kids and what have you.

 

The Gibraltar question is intriguing though, they must be shitting themselves.

Even as part of the EU, Spain thinks nothing of slowing border traffic down to a crawl, just for the inconvenience - they're not suddenly going to turn friendly and helpful!

I understand the rights of EU citizens in the U.K. And of U.K. Citizens living and working in the EU is a huge worry for many people. I think there will be guarantees on both sides that there will be no changes to those currently in this position. I think there will be some sort of cut off date on both sides.

 

Listening to Davis just now he comes across quite well and calm, he seems quite decent considering he's a Tory, which is what's needed throughout this. I could be wrong about him happy to be corrected if I've totally mis judged him. He seems to put the question of U.K. And EU citizens rights as a priority. So I'd expect that to be dealt with very soon.

 

Also happy to hear the government intends keeping hold of pretty much all EU laws and just transfer them into U.K. Law, these include employment and human rights.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Like I say, I'm not worried, but then we've been here long enough to get dutch citizenship now if we absolutely had to.

 

I think people need to start realising though that things won't be helped by the perception that Britain's basically going "**** you EU, we're leaving, and you better give us what we want or there'll be trouble"

 

That might play just great in the daily mail and what have you, but a more mature approach and conciliatory tone to negotiating a deal is needed.

Goodwill is a big word.

 

Smithee, 3 times Theresa May has offered to settle this issue before article 50 was invoked and 3 times Frau Merkel refused to even discuss it.

It's Merkel who is wanting to use people as bargaining chips not the other way round and it is clear that it's Merkel as 25 of the other EU countries wanted to sort this out as well, only for Merkel to order them not to.

 

[Boris]

Smithee, 3 times Theresa May has offered to settle this issue before article 50 was invoked and 3 times Frau Merkel refused to even discuss it.

It's Merkel who is wanting to use people as bargaining chips not the other way round and it is clear that it's Merkel as 25 of the other EU countries wanted to sort this out as well, only for Merkel to order them not to.

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

 

Exactly.

[Unknown user]

Smithee, 3 times Theresa May has offered to settle this issue before article 50 was invoked and 3 times Frau Merkel refused to even discuss it.

It's Merkel who is wanting to use people as bargaining chips not the other way round and it is clear that it's Merkel as 25 of the other EU countries wanted to sort this out as well, only for Merkel to order them not to.

Oh I'm aware of that, but you need to look at the bigger picture - why this has happened.

 

Merkels a politician and Britain are sabre rattling like ****. She can't just meekly say "yeah ok whatever you say" because it's not all about Britain.

Britain is seen to be agressive and confrontational just now- are we realistically expecting a German leader to be seen to be passive against that? She'd never get another vote in Germany again!

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Oh I'm aware of that, but you need to look at the bigger picture - why this has happened.

 

Merkels a politician and Britain are sabre rattling like ****. She can't just meekly say "yeah ok whatever you say" because it's not all about Britain.

Britain is seen to be agressive and confrontational just now- are we realistically expecting a German leader to be seen to be passive against that? She'd never get another vote in Germany again!

 

We all know that what a politician says in public to the camera's and what they say and do when the camera's are not there are two different things.

 

If Merkel didn't have an election to contend this year, would we have seen her adopt a more conciliatory tone, perhaps.

 

[Unknown user]

We all know that what a politician says in public to the camera's and what they say and do when the camera's are not there are two different things.

 

If Merkel didn't have an election to contend this year, would we have seen her adopt a more conciliatory tone, perhaps.

Doubtful. People seem to forget that in the eyes of europe (broadly speaking of course!) Britain started this, first by voting to leave the club, then by taking an aggressive, slightly dickish stance from day one as May tries to be Iron Lady II