Brexit?

[Thunderstruck]

Perhaps Spain is planning to restore Ceuta and Melilla to Morocco.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Perhaps Spain is planning to restore Ceuta and Melilla to Morocco.

 

 

Of course they will be, the announcement will have been overlooked with all the reporting of 'Brexit' etc etc. 

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I'm sorry GK, but focus too much on the word "can't". You know that's not how it works, tho'. Your top brains scrutinise all existing laws and law itself to find evidence to back up their arguments. All it takes is one word out place, one rogue 'and' or 'if'. That is why, if you don't mind ,I'll put my faith in the clever people to find a way. Not some road sweeper on JKB. It's never been done so precedence is N/A. Scotland is a member of the EU, it's Parliament is built on it.

 

As I say, no point arguing with the deluded.

[JamboX2]

Whats good for the goose...

 

We want to govern ourselves

We dont want to be told what to do

We dont want to be part of a union

 

(The UK Government and EU Leave campaigners)

 

OK for them to say it...Bad for Scotland to say the same!

Not my point mate. Just saying the arguments have swapped sides. Showing the banality of identity politics and the pointlessness of it.

 

Happily set the clocks back to being a Scot, British and European. Happy with multiple identities in a multi-tiered democracy.

 

Effectively we are in an age nationalism. It's dull stuff.

 

But the two sides should just admit this point. The SNP can't have it both ways. Nor the Tories.

[JamboX2]

I'm sorry GK, but focus too much on the word "can't". You know that's not how it works, tho'. Your top brains scrutinise all existing laws and law itself to find evidence to back up their arguments. All it takes is one word out place, one rogue 'and' or 'if'. That is why, if you don't mind ,I'll put my faith in the clever people to find a way. Not some road sweeper on JKB. It's never been done so precedence is N/A. Scotland is a member of the EU, it's Parliament is built on it.

It's not a member in its own right Aus. Go pick up a book on the EU. Scotland isn't listed as a member state.

 

There is precedence for a nation joining a union and gaining entry- East Germany. It dissolved itself totally into West Germany. West Germany (now called Germany) is the successor.

 

Equally, apply the ROI case, did that end the UK as a nation? No. Did ROI inherit the UK's interbational obligations? No. So Scotland leaving the UK doesn't do anything different from that.

[Thunderstruck]

"It's over. The EU is shining with the light of a dead star" - Marine Le Pen

 

Shame, then, that the will of Nicola Sturgeon is to hitch her wagon to that star

[jake]

"It's over. The EU is shining with the light of a dead star" - Marine Le Pen

 

Shame, then, that the will of Nicola Sturgeon is to hitch her wagon to that star

 

It really shows a lack of foresight.

There are landmarks coming for the EU the french presidency being the biggie.

The Italian political and financial mess is the one with the most effect on German economics though.

We have won a watch getting out early.

 

Also this notion that somehow Europe is more tolerant than the UK does not stand up to scrutiny.

[niblick1874]

The being a spangle is strong in you.

 

Where's the paper trail?

Right where I said it would be.

[SwindonJambo]

For both sides of the debate, has anyone stopped to think of the massive hit the EU will take to their budget once the UK, its 2nd biggest net contributor of around ?10bn a year leaves and all, or at least most of that contribution is lost? For prospective future members, membership will be much less beneficial than it has been in the past.

 

That is why the EU are trying their best to secure a big 'divorce' settlement from the U.K., they're desperate to get their hands on a large parachute payment so that they can cushion the blow of the drastic budget cuts which will certainly be necessary. And note that the lead negotiator, Donald Tusk is a recent former Prime Minister of Poland, the biggest current net recipient of EU Funds by a country mile. The Poles must be extremely worried. I know the country very well and EU Funding has greatly improved its infrastructure and economy. This article explains:

 

http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-eu-members-net-contributions-and-net-funding-2016-12

 

I still think once we're out, we'll still have to make some kind of contribution to maintain whatever relationship we do have with them but it will be greatly reduced. There are actually very few members of any size who make a net contribution- Germany, UK, France, Italy and the Netherlands and that's about it so loss of the UK is a big deal.

 

I fully predict the 3 Scandinavian members will be next to follow us out the door - there's very little love for the EU there!

 

I honestly think the EU would have survived easily if it had stayed as just a fairly simple trading block as the old EEC was that we, the Danes and Irish joined in 1973. Unfortunately it's grown into a supranational Political Organisation with the power to interfere in the laws of individual member states in the hands of bloated fat cat bureaucrats Living in a cosseted bubble in Brussels. If that hadn't happened and we'd stuck with the plain old EEC format, Brexit wouldn't have been an issue. The vote to leave or stay in 1975 wasn't even close : stay won by about 2 to 1.

 

For all I've dug holes in the EU in this post I still voted remain but was not heartbroken with the result. A deal of some sort will be struck. We're too big and they need our business and whatever reduced money we end up paying them.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

For both sides of the debate, has anyone stopped to think of the massive hit the EU will take to their budget once the UK, its 2nd biggest net contributor of around ?10bn a year leaves and all, or at least most of that contribution is lost? For prospective future members, membership will be much less beneficial than it has been in the past.

 

That is why the EU are trying their best to secure a big 'divorce' settlement from the U.K., they're desperate to get their hands on a large parachute payment so that they can cushion the blow of the drastic budget cuts which will certainly be necessary. And note that the lead negotiator, Donald Tusk is a recent former Prime Minister of Poland, the biggest current net recipient of EU Funds by a country mile. The Poles must be extremely worried. I know the country very well and EU Funding has greatly improved its infrastructure and economy. This article explains:

 

http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-eu-members-net-contributions-and-net-funding-2016-12

 

I still think once we're out, we'll still have to make some kind of contribution to maintain whatever relationship we do have with them but it will be greatly reduced. There are actually very few members of any size who make a net contribution- Germany, UK, France, Italy and the Netherlands and that's about it so loss of the UK is a big deal.

 

I fully predict the 3 Scandinavian members will be next to follow us out the door - there's very little love for the EU there!

 

I honestly think the EU would have survived easily if it had stayed as just a fairly simple trading block as the old EEC was that we, the Danes and Irish joined in 1973. Unfortunately it's grown into a supranational Political Organisation with the power to interfere in the laws of individual member states in the hands of bloated fat cat bureaucrats Living in a cosseted bubble in Brussels. If that hadn't happened and we'd stuck with the plain old EEC format, Brexit wouldn't have been an issue. The vote to leave or stay in 1975 wasn't even close : stay won by about 2 to 1.

 

For all I've dug holes in the EU in this post I still voted remain but was not heartbroken with the result. A deal of some sort will be struck. We're too big and they need our business and whatever reduced money we end up paying them.

 

Can't disagree with anything that you've said, especially the part in bold.

 

If the EU had simply stayed as a trading union of European countries then things would have been just dandy, but no, someone somewhere thought it was a great idea to have monetary and political union as well.  Little did everybody realise at the time that as the powers of the European Parliament grew their own countries independence and influence diminished.

 

 

 

 

 

[SwindonJambo]

Can't disagree with anything that you've said, especially the part in bold.

 

If the EU had simply stayed as a trading union of European countries then things would have been just dandy, but no, someone somewhere thought it was a great idea to have monetary and political union as well.  Little did everybody realise at the time that as the powers of the European Parliament grew their own countries independence and influence diminished.

 

Correct. And one particular country's influence and economic power has increased greatly over all of the others, especially so in the Post 2002 Eurozone era. Guess which one? If they had their way we'd end up as the United States of Europe, with them in charge. No bloody thanks. That's another reason why smaller countries fear our departure - we acted as a big counterbalance to Germany and once we're gone I can't see anyone else filling the void. The French and Italians will just roll onto their backs and let the Germans tickle their tummies and more.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Correct. And one particular country's influence and economic power has increased greatly over all of the others, especially so in the Post 2002 Eurozone era. Guess which one? If they had their way we'd end up as the United States of Europe, with them in charge. No bloody thanks. That's another reason why smaller countries fear our departure - we acted as a big counterbalance to Germany and once we're gone I can't see anyone else filling the void. The French and Italians will just roll onto their backs and let the Germans tickle their tummies and more.

 

100% correct.

 

I don't think most people realise that the UK was the counterbalance (like you say) which kept Germany in check, there are certain countries within the EU which are now starting to get worried about the future without the UK in the EU and I don't mean economic worries either and Sweden is one of them.

 

I said this about Germany just yesterday, that the EU and the Euro benefits them more than the rest put together, it may not have started out that way or was even intended to work out that way, but it has now.

Italy is in so much debt to German banks that they are the next Greece and will have little to no choice to be totally subservient to whatever Germany tells them.

[Francis Albert]

Can't disagree with anything that you've said, especially the part in bold.

 

If the EU had simply stayed as a trading union of European countries then things would have been just dandy, but no, someone somewhere thought it was a great idea to have monetary and political union as well.  Little did everybody realise at the time that as the powers of the European Parliament grew their own countries independence and influence diminished.

 

 

 

 

One of the many problems with the EU is that the effective powers of the European Parliament have not grown. It remains a pretty marginal talking shop, attracting few voters in elections, and very few politicians of any real standing. The EU is in practice run by the unelected Commission  and its hordes of  vastly overpaid bureaucrats, and by the national heads of state. I am not in favour of a United States of Europe but if you are going to have one that is democratic you have to have a powerful European Parliament. But neither national politicians nor the bureaucrats really want that, however much they preach about "ever greater union".  

[jake]

One of the many problems with the EU is that the effective powers of the European Parliament have not grown. It remains a pretty marginal talking shop, attracting few voters in elections, and very few politicians of any real standing. The EU is in practice run by the unelected Commission and its hordes of vastly overpaid bureaucrats, and by the national heads of state. I am not in favour of a United States of Europe but if you are going to have one that is democratic you have to have a powerful European Parliament. But neither national politicians nor the bureaucrats really want that, however much they preach about "ever greater union".

 

An all powerful parliament is even more frightening.

Especially the way voting patterns are in Europe just now.

[jambo lodge]

One of the many problems with the EU is that the effective powers of the European Parliament have not grown. It remains a pretty marginal talking shop, attracting few voters in elections, and very few politicians of any real standing. The EU is in practice run by the unelected Commission  and its hordes of  vastly overpaid bureaucrats, and by the national heads of state. I am not in favour of a United States of Europe but if you are going to have one that is democratic you have to have a powerful European Parliament. But neither national politicians nor the bureaucrats really want that, however much they preach about "ever greater union".  

 

Spot on.

[Francis Albert]

An all powerful parliament is even more frightening.

Especially the way voting patterns are in Europe just now.

So the EU can't be democratic?

 

If the worry is the extreme right, it would be much more difficult for it to influence an EU wide democracy than to influence particular nations within the EU.

 

Anyway effective democracy in a behemoth like the EU is probably unworkable. It is difficult enough within the current nation states to make governments democratically accountable.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

One of the many problems with the EU is that the effective powers of the European Parliament have not grown. It remains a pretty marginal talking shop, attracting few voters in elections, and very few politicians of any real standing. The EU is in practice run by the unelected Commission  and its hordes of  vastly overpaid bureaucrats, and by the national heads of state. I am not in favour of a United States of Europe but if you are going to have one that is democratic you have to have a powerful European Parliament. But neither national politicians nor the bureaucrats really want that, however much they preach about "ever greater union".  

 

Perhaps, just perhaps without the UK it might embolden some of the players to seize the moment, I guess we'll have to wait and see what transpires in the fullness of time.

[jake]

So the EU can't be democratic?

 

If the worry is the extreme right, it would be much more difficult for it to influence an EU wide democracy than to influence particular nations within the EU.

 

Anyway effective democracy in a behemoth like the EU is probably unworkable. It is difficult enough within the current nation states to make governments democratically accountable.

 

Your last paragraph is why i vote independence and brexit.

Supposing the EU was democratically elected though .

It would still mean policy being set for the more powerful.

Just not a fan of more power in fewer hands.

[ToadKiller Dog]

Michael Howard thinks May will take us to war to keep Gib under British sovereignty

.http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_58e0ed0ee4b0c777f788130f?

Just like the Tory party to send working class kids to die to protect the Tory off shore riches .

 

Fecking ejits with empty threats .

[The Real Maroonblood]

Michael Howard thinks May will take us to war to keep Gib under British sovereignty

.http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_58e0ed0ee4b0c777f788130f?

Just like the Tory party to send working class kids to die to protect the Tory off shore riches .

Fecking ejits with empty threats .

Heard the muppet on the radio.

An absolute zoomer.

[SwindonJambo]

Michael Howard thinks May will take us to war to keep Gib under British sovereignty

.http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_58e0ed0ee4b0c777f788130f?

quote]

 

Agreed. An absolutely stupid and unhelpful thing to say at the worst possible time. What a fool.

[jake]

Marie le Penn touting the idea of shadow currency to the euro.

In other words reverting back to the franc.

Italian banks now with 18% bad loans.

British banks 3% .

Think it was around 6% in the American financial system that kicked of 2008.

 

The italian banking system is being propped by German banks who are also propping up the ECB.

 

Its now accepted that Greece fraudulently cooked the books to gain entry to the EU.

Guess who helped them do that .

Goldmann Saachs.

 

The financial collapse of the euro will lead to its political union falling apart.

 

Frances two biggest banks have capital shortfall.

Luxembourg now props up Spains economy.

 

Brexit was a brilliant vote by us thicko racists.

[Bindy Badgy]

Ignore 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

Marie le Penn touting the idea of shadow currency to the euro.

In other words reverting back to the franc.

Italian banks now with 18% bad loans.

British banks 3% .

Think it was around 6% in the American financial system that kicked of 2008.

The italian banking system is being propped by German banks who are also propping up the ECB.

Its now accepted that Greece fraudulently cooked the books to gain entry to the EU.

Guess who helped them do that .

Goldmann Saachs.

The financial collapse of the euro will lead to its political union falling apart.

Frances two biggest banks have capital shortfall.

Luxembourg now props up Spains economy.

Brexit was a brilliant vote by us thicko racists.

Fair comment.

[SwindonJambo]

Marie le Penn touting the idea of shadow currency to the euro.

In other words reverting back to the franc.

Italian banks now with 18% bad loans.

British banks 3% .

Think it was around 6% in the American financial system that kicked of 2008.

The italian banking system is being propped by German banks who are also propping up the ECB.

Its now accepted that Greece fraudulently cooked the books to gain entry to the EU.

Guess who helped them do that .

Goldmann Saachs.

The financial collapse of the euro will lead to its political union falling apart.

Frances two biggest banks have capital shortfall.

Luxembourg now props up Spains economy.

Brexit was a brilliant vote by us thicko racists.

The Euro was always going to be a disaster. How can 1 currency and Central Bank be suitable for 15 odd disparate fast and slow economies. An absolutely daft idea that was always going to end in tears. Concerns were expressed at the time that Greece's figures were heavily fudged to gain entry. Italy's too to a lesser degree. We've got Gordon Brown to thank for us not joining the mess. Blair wanted to join and Brown stood up to him. Sweden and Denmark refused too and EU scepticism is high in these countries, especially Sweden.

 

I've already said that if we'd stayed as the EEC and not tried to go for Political and Economic Integration as the EU is, there would never have been a vote.

 

It's reckoned that around 1/3 of Yes Supporters voted Brexit so lots of crossover between the 2 camps. Good post btw.

 

I voted remain but was far from heartbroken when we lost.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Marie le Penn touting the idea of shadow currency to the euro.

In other words reverting back to the franc.

Italian banks now with 18% bad loans.

British banks 3% .

Think it was around 6% in the American financial system that kicked of 2008.

 

The italian banking system is being propped by German banks who are also propping up the ECB.

 

Its now accepted that Greece fraudulently cooked the books to gain entry to the EU.

Guess who helped them do that .

Goldmann Saachs.

 

The financial collapse of the euro will lead to its political union falling apart.

 

Frances two biggest banks have capital shortfall.

Luxembourg now props up Spains economy.

 

Brexit was a brilliant vote by us thicko racists.

 

Knew that the Italian banks were in dire straights and that they owed the ECB/Bundesbank a hell of a lot of money, as I've said Italy is soon to be the new Greece.

 

If the German economy takes a big enough hit by 'Brexit' which could very well happen, then the German banks will struggle to prop-up the rest of the Eurozone, without German bail-outs the whole Eurozone collapses, and with it the EU as well.

 

Forget all the rhetoric that comes out of the politicians standing in front of the camera's, Frau Merkel knows only too well what is at stake here without a deal which allows German companies to continue to sell their products to their biggest European market, especially with sales to the rest of the Eurozone continuing to fall.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

The Euro was always going to be a disaster. How can 1 currency and Central Bank be suitable for 15 odd disparate fast and slow economies. An absolutely daft idea that was always going to end in tears. Concerns were expressed at the time that Greece's figures were heavily fudged to gain entry. Italy's too to a lesser degree. We've got Gordon Brown to thank for us not joining the mess. Blair wanted to join and Brown stood up to him. Sweden and Denmark refused too and EU scepticism is high in these countries, especially Sweden.

 

I've already said that if we'd stayed as the EEC and not tried to go for Political and Economic Integration as the EU is, there would never have been a vote.

 

It's reckoned that around 1/3 of Yes Supporters voted Brexit so lots of crossover between the 2 camps. Good post btw.

 

I voted remain but was far from heartbroken when we lost.

 

Not only Blair but Nick Clegg and Tim Farron as late as last year still thought it was a good idea for the UK to join the Euro, utter muppets.

[SwindonJambo]

Not only Blair but Nick Clegg and Tim Farron as late as last year still thought it was a good idea for the UK to join the Euro, utter muppets.

Yep. But because the Lib Dems jumped into bed with the Tories for 5 years from 2010 to gain their first wee sniff of power in modern times, most of their supporters have long since deserted them, rendering them an irrelevance. Little to no importance is placed on what they now have to say, even their current and most recent former leaders. Dickish suggestions like that don't help them at all.

 

They have 9 MPs.

[Cade]

MEPs today voted 516 to 133 in favour of a hard line stance when dealing with the Brexit negotiations.

 

Not bluffing, after all.

 

 

[frankblack]

MEPs today voted 516 to 133 in favour of a hard line stance when dealing with the Brexit negotiations.

 

Not bluffing, after all.

 

All bluff and bluster by a dying old mans club.

 

At the end of the day it will hit them if the UK has to walk and both sides end on WTO terms.  The UK has made it clear they will do that rather than agree a bad deal.

 

If we deal with these clowns and they insist on terms like Gibraltar and a bad trade deal, negotiations won't last long and we will walk paying sod all compensation, leaving a 60bn euro hole in their budget.

 

[jake]

MEPs today voted 516 to 133 in favour of a hard line stance when dealing with the Brexit negotiations.

 

Not bluffing, after all.

 

Lol.

 

Brexit will be the least of their worries.

 

And if they want to try and punish a democratic mandate of the uk then it shows you what a corrupt union we got out.

 

Well done the brexit voters.

[aussieh]

Lol.

 

Brexit will be the least of their worries.

 

And if they want to try and punish a democratic mandate of the uk then it shows you what a corrupt union we got out.

 

Well done the brexit voters.

Aye cause the UK is the last bastion of democracy. Wm doesn't even consult the other member parliaments. Oh the Queen and lords, when do we vote on them exactly? that's right Jake, we don't.

Keep chucking those stones ,Jake, I'm sure your greenhouse will be smashing.

[Francis Albert]

MEPs today voted 516 to 133 in favour of a hard line stance when dealing with the Brexit negotiations.

 

Not bluffing, after all.

How do you know they aren't bluffing? They are hardy going to send their negotiators into the negotiations with a mandate to settle on any terms they can get. Not that the European Parliament has anything much to do with the outcome anyway.

[jake]

Aye cause the UK is the last bastion of democracy. Wm doesn't even consult the other member parliaments. Oh the Queen and lords, when do we vote on them exactly? that's right Jake, we don't.

Keep chucking those stones ,Jake, I'm sure your greenhouse will be smashing.

 

Eh?

Where did i hold up the queen and house of lords as a banner.

 

Dont forget aussie it was voted for.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

MEPs today voted 516 to 133 in favour of a hard line stance when dealing with the Brexit negotiations.

 

Not bluffing, after all.

 

Hard Line Stance you say, yet the EU repeated yet again today that the EU does not want to punish the UK, that the EU wants to reach a deal with the UK, that no deal would be bad news for both the EU & the UK.

 

That doesn't sound much like a hard line stance to me, a hard line stance is 'here's the deal take it or leave it' now that's hard line, but that's not what is happening.

 

The vote today was to adopt the EU's negotiating strategy, including the EU's red lines, the things which the EU want the UK to fulfil and there was nothing in the resolution which hasn't already been mentioned before, like for example, the UK fulfilling it's ongoing commitments which it's already liable for, and that the EU would like an early settlement to the question of EU & UK citizens rights after Brexit, and that this will be one of the first things on the table.

 

Everybody is different and whilst you see this as a Hard Line stance, I see this as the adopting of what has already been widely talked about and reported by the EU's senior leaders for weeks now and today was when the rank and file MEP's got the chance to have their say and vote upon it.

[aussieh]

Eh?

Where did i hold up the queen and house of lords as a banner.

 

Dont forget aussie it was voted for.

Not up here it. But it was blah blah blah... They say the polls indicate that Scotland doesn't want an indyref2, well there was a big feck off poll last June that literally said Scotland doesn't want to brexit. But blah blah blah...

[jake]

Not up here it. But it was blah blah blah... They say the polls indicate that Scotland doesn't want an indyref2, well there was a big feck off poll last June that literally said Scotland doesn't want to brexit. But blah blah blah...

 

Polls smolls .

 

If we had voted yes then we may or may not have had a referendum on the EU.

We didnt unfortunately so we remain part of a uk electorate which voted to leave a union thats as bad if not worse(imo) than the uk.

I know your main political goal is independence .

Dont confuse my brexit vote with being a tory ukip type .

[aussieh]

Polls smolls .

 

If we had voted yes then we may or may not have had a referendum on the EU.

We didnt unfortunately so we remain part of a uk electorate which voted to leave a union thats as bad if not worse(imo) than the uk.

I know your main political goal is independence .

Dont confuse my brexit vote with being a tory ukip type .

I don't.

 

BNP?

 

 

 

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Frau Merkel at it again it would seem.

 

Remember she kept saying that no discussions of any kind could take place until article 50 was invoked.

 

Well now she is saying that the UK must enter into 'Constructive Dialogue' with the EU before any Brexit Negotiations can begin.

 

What this 'Constructive Dialogue' is or what about, I don't know, but yet again it appears to me that Merkel is trying to put obstacles in the UK's way.

[Cade]

Merkel actually said:

?Countries with a third country status ? and that?s what Great Britain will be ? cannot and will not have the same or even more rights as a member of the European Union. All 27 member states and the European institutions agree on this.?

?You may think that all this is self-evident. But I have to put this so clearly because I get the impression that some in Great Britain still have illusions about this, and that is a waste of time.?

 

?We can only make a deal about Britain?s future relationship to the EU once all questions about the terms of its exit can be clarified to a satisfying degree.

?That means the sooner the British government is prepared to find constructive solutions, the sooner we can engage with their desire to already talk during the exit negotiations about the future relationship between the United Kingdom and the European Union. But first we need to know how Great Britain sees its future relationship with us.?

 

I see no obstacles there: in fact she's actually offering to hold parallel talks (brexit and future deals at the same time) but only if the UK can paint a picture of the final outcome.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

 

Merkel actually said:

?Countries with a third country status ? and that?s what Great Britain will be ? cannot and will not have the same or even more rights as a member of the European Union. All 27 member states and the European institutions agree on this.?

?You may think that all this is self-evident. But I have to put this so clearly because I get the impression that some in Great Britain still have illusions about this, and that is a waste of time.?

 

?We can only make a deal about Britain?s future relationship to the EU once all questions about the terms of its exit can be clarified to a satisfying degree.

?That means the sooner the British government is prepared to find constructive solutions, the sooner we can engage with their desire to already talk during the exit negotiations about the future relationship between the United Kingdom and the European Union. But first we need to know how Great Britain sees its future relationship with us.?

 

I see no obstacles there: in fact she's actually offering to hold parallel talks (brexit and future deals at the same time) but only if the UK can paint a picture of the final outcome.

 

 

At the time of my post the full details that you've posted hadn't been released yet, only the headlines, and as often happens the headlines differ from the actual story.

[Boris]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-poll-times-yougov-mistake-theresa-may-labour-corbyn-election-turning-point-a7705301.html

 

Oops...

[niblick1874]

Just give it time. It's all going to be fine.

 

Someone that knows what they are doing has his finger on the pulse.

 

All hail Soros.

 

https://www.bing.com/news/search?q=Juncker+Meets+With+Soros&qpvt=juncker+meets+with+soros&FORM=NWRFSH

[aussieh]

No it can't. For starters, there was another union that occurred in 1801 and altered in 1921. Was the UK dissolved in 1921?

Ok GK, so the UK can keep all the debt too.

 

Case closed.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Ok GK, so the UK can keep all the debt too.

 

Case closed.

Sound. Good luck borrowing money in the future.

[aussieh]

Sound. Good luck borrowing money in the future.

So either way we Cannae borrow. UK hardbrexit, part of the Uk or Indy. Scotland really has no options in this world. We really are too wee.

 

Seriously GK, you argue Scotland are only members thro' the UK and they keep the EU membership. But in the next breath Scotland are responsible for the UK debt. Which is it? We're either a nobody or we are somebody. New Country with no entitlement or debt, or an existing country with rights and obligations.

[jack D and coke]

So either way we Cannae borrow. UK hardbrexit, part of the Uk or Indy. Scotland really has no options in this world. We really are too wee.

 

Seriously GK, you argue Scotland are only members thro' the UK and they keep the EU membership. But in the next breath Scotland are responsible for the UK debt. Which is it? We're either a nobody or we are somebody. New Country with no entitlement or debt, or an existing country with rights and obligations.

That's another one eh, nobody will want to lend Scotland any money in the future or if they do it'll be at wonga rates or whatever.

What a wee shitehouse of a country we really are eh.

[aussieh]

That's another one eh, nobody will want to lend Scotland any money in the future or if they do it'll be at wonga rates or whatever.

What a wee shitehouse of a country we really are eh.

We couldnae run a bath, BTW. The pressure would run oot!

[jack D and coke]

We couldnae run a bath, BTW. The pressure would run oot!

Fact mate[emoji1]

[JamboX2]

That's another one eh, nobody will want to lend Scotland any money in the future or if they do it'll be at wonga rates or whatever.

What a wee shitehouse of a country we really are eh.

That's not the argument at all. Its that interest payments would be higher as Scotland on its own is a new lender.