**The OFFICIAL Rugby World Cup Thread**

[Lt.Speirs]

Feck we could still get through

[Don Draper]

Cannae watch. Nerves shredded.

[Sergio Garcia]

Watched first half and allowed myself to believe a little, thought it best to head to bed and avoid the dissapointment of a Scotland exit twice in the one sitting without sleep

[neilnunb]

Ireland have looked pretty good today. Their game against Wales next week should be a cracker.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Very impressed by Ireland today. I really hope that the winner of the QF with Wales, who were also excellent today, gets to the final. Far more deserving than England or France (Shaun's so-called 'big five' - pffft!).

[shaun.lawson]

Very impressed by Ireland today. I really hope that the winner of the QF with Wales, who were also excellent today, gets to the final. Far more deserving than England or France (Shaun's so-called 'big five' - pffft!).

 

Ireland looked awesome today: a proper rugby team, who in the second half, played just as brilliantly as against England earlier in the year. But then again, Wales were brilliant too.

 

In 1995, these two played out one of the worst games the World Cup's ever known. This was in an era when both countries had been struggling for a number of years; neither, the odd piece of inspiration from Evans or Geohegan excepted, could score a try to save their lives; and both appeared in terminal decline. The contrast with now is almost unbelievable - with three Grand Slams between them since 2004, it's quite fitting that both now have such a tremendous opportunity.

 

Because both Ireland and Wales are simply on a different level to England and France at the moment; and either might well start favourites in the semi-final. But there are always twists and turns which no-one foresees in the knock-out stages - and this year will be no different.

 

Three knife-edge quarter-finals, which I don't think anyone can call with any confidence; two semis which could then go either way too. Should be tremendous.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Ireland looked awesome today: a proper rugby team, who in the second half, played just as brilliantly as against England earlier in the year. But then again, Wales were brilliant too.

 

In 1995, these two played out one of the worst games the World Cup's ever known. This was in an era when both countries had been struggling for a number of years; neither, the odd piece of inspiration from Evans or Geohegan excepted, could score a try to save their lives; and both appeared in terminal decline. The contrast with now is almost unbelievable - with three Grand Slams between them since 2004, it's quite fitting that both now have such a tremendous opportunity.

 

Because both Ireland and Wales are simply on a different level to England and France at the moment; and either might well start favourites in the semi-final. But there are always twists and turns which no-one foresees in the knock-out stages - and this year will be no different.

 

Three knife-edge quarter-finals, which I don't think anyone can call with any confidence; two semis which could then go either way too. Should be tremendous.

 

My calls on the quarters: -

 

New Zealand 41-6 Argentina

England 15-17 France

South Africa 12-13 Australia

Ireland 20-15 Wales

 

Semis: -

 

New Zealand 21-23 Australia

France 19-22 Ireland

 

Final

 

Saying nothing - if Ireland get that far I'll be delirious!

[shaun.lawson]

Dear me. What a tantrum. Mr Encyclopaedia calling someone a pedant!!? It's not a problem in my book when such pedantry can be used to put right an argument put forward by somebody who has altered one or more facts of history. Your problem is you got caught in this instance and now not everyone thinks you're absolutely amazing because you make posts which read like essays in order to show off the intellectual qualities that you possess.

Now, as for my feel of the game. Firstly, I've not covered rugby in over a year now. I'm back on the football beat after reluctantly moving south in order to restore a five-day working week to my life. Secondly, the day I first entered a press box in the very first sporting occasion I covered all those years ago, was the day I had to push any emotional feeling that I have as a sports fan - you have to although I do accept there are a few who have managed to get away without doing so. You've expressed ambitions about becoming a sports/football writer in the past. Should you make it (and I advise you to keep any articles you write short and to the point lest a sub-editor get medieval with you), you might undergo the same change.

 

But you're not required to be a journalist on Kickback, Matt: the rest of us just write as fans, enthusiasts or whatever. I've no desire to become a newspaper journalist, and never really have: because I don't fancy churning out regurgitated, lowest common denominator rubbish.

 

But there are some excellent rugby writers who write with passion and emotion: Stephen Jones (yes, him); Eddie Butler; my personal favourite, Robert Kitson; or Brian Moore, whose analysis is honest, brilliant, and never pulls any punches. So as you acknowledge yourself, it's entirely possible to do it: if someone's good enough, that is.

 

But no Matt: I didn't get 'caught'. The real reason I have a problem with your pedantry is that, almost wilfully, you misunderstand what I write so often. You just did it again in your last post. Yes, I know Scotland won in Australia in 1982, and the Wallabies' famous Grand Slam tour was in 1984: hence my use of the term, 'shortly after'. It's like you just can't help yourself.

 

Cue another tedious back and forth about the meaning, in the context of my post (which was - hello - a broad overview of things), of 'shortly', while the actual argument gets lost somewhere. That's what I find so irritating. To give another example: I've just written about how poor both Ireland and Wales were in the early to mid-90s. So up you'll pop to helpfully point out that Ireland beat England in 1993 and 1994; or that Wales beat England in '93, and won the Championship in '94. Yes: but both were still crap, and I doubt it's an era either fanbase recalls with much, or any fondness.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

But you're not required to be a journalist on Kickback, Matt: the rest of us just write as fans, enthusiasts or whatever. I've no desire to become a newspaper journalist, and never really have: because I don't fancy churning out regurgitated, lowest common denominator rubbish.

 

But there are some excellent rugby writers who write with passion and emotion: Stephen Jones (yes, him); Eddie Butler; my personal favourite, Robert Kitson; or Brian Moore, whose analysis is honest, brilliant, and never pulls any punches. So as you acknowledge yourself, it's entirely possible to do it: if someone's good enough, that is.

 

But no Matt: I didn't get 'caught'. The real reason I have a problem with your pedantry is that, almost wilfully, you misunderstand what I write so often. You just did it again in your last post. Yes, I know Scotland won in Australia in 1982, and the Wallabies' famous Grand Slam tour was in 1984: hence my use of the term, 'shortly after'. It's like you just can't help yourself.

 

Cue another tedious back and forth about the meaning, in the context of my post (which was - hello - a broad overview of things), of 'shortly', while the actual argument gets lost somewhere. That's what I find so irritating. To give another example: I've just written about how poor both Ireland and Wales were in the early to mid-90s. So up you'll pop to helpfully point out that Ireland beat England in 1993 and 1994; or that Wales beat England in '93, and won the Championship in '94. Yes: but both were still crap, and I doubt it's an era either fanbase recalls with much, or any fondness.

 

Jones is a fecking plum! His last shred of credibility was lost when he said Brian O'Driscoll shouldn't have been picked for the last Lions tour.

 

PS That Ireland win over England at Twickenham in 1994 is remembered with great fondness by me. It was part of a wonderful weekend which culminated in Wayne Foster standing on the fence at the Dunbar End!

[Boof]

Saturday 8th October

 

0600 - Ireland v Wales (mildly interesting that Ireland should be last to finish pool games but first to play in QF)

0830 - England v France

 

Sunday 9th October

 

0600 - South Africa v Australia

0830 - New Zealand v Argentina

 

Lovely stuff

[shaun.lawson]

My calls on the quarters: -

 

New Zealand 41-6 Argentina

England 15-17 France

South Africa 12-13 Australia

Ireland 20-15 Wales

 

Semis: -

 

New Zealand 21-23 Australia

France 19-22 Ireland

 

Final

 

Saying nothing - if Ireland get that far I'll be delirious!

 

Trite though I know it must sound, many sporting teams are driven on by a broader 'cause'. The most recent example involved Japan winning the Women's World Cup in the aftermath of the tsunami there. New Zealand have both ending the 24 year wait, and especially Christchurch, providing that extra emotional edge in this event; and I'm starting to wonder if the huge economic difficulties back home might do the same for Ireland.

 

For once, I'm not making any predictions at all. New Zealand's quarter-final excepted, it's all far too close to call IMO - but I would say that, even without Carter, I'll be shocked if the ABs don't win this thing; and that to my mind, the draw has screwed both South Africa and Australia's chances of lifting the trophy. The path facing both is too tough, and has never been successfully negotiated by any previous winner.

 

One other thing. If I were ranking the eight coaches remaining in the event, I'd go with:

 

1. Deans

 

2. Gatland

 

3. Henry

 

4. Kidney

 

5. Johnson

 

6. Phelan/Turnes

 

7. De Villiers

 

8. Lievremont

 

What part that may or may not play in the outcome, who knows?

[Boof]

France - Tonga.

 

What were the commentators speaking about saying that France had 'lost the plot' in not going for the easy penalty?

 

France would have qualified even without the losing bonus point from that game...wouldn't they? Or have I completely missed something?

 

The look on the Tongan front row players' faces when they realised France were going for the scrum was brilliant.

[Denny Crane]

But you're not required to be a journalist on Kickback, Matt: the rest of us just write as fans, enthusiasts or whatever. I've no desire to become a newspaper journalist, and never really have: because I don't fancy churning out regurgitated, lowest common denominator rubbish. Hmmm....must pop along to your work one day and tell you how to sweep up.

 

But there are some excellent rugby writers who write with passion and emotion: Stephen Jones (yes, him); Eddie Butler; my personal favourite, Robert Kitson; or Brian Moore, whose analysis is honest, brilliant, and never pulls any punches. So as you acknowledge yourself, it's entirely possible to do it: if someone's good enough, that is.

 

But no Matt: I didn't get 'caught'. The real reason I have a problem with your pedantry is that, almost wilfully, you misunderstand what I write so often. You just did it again in your last post. Yes, I know Scotland won in Australia in 1982, and the Wallabies' famous Grand Slam tour was in 1984: hence my use of the term, 'shortly after'. It's like you just can't help yourself. So if you knew it, why make that mistake?

 

Cue another tedious back and forth about the meaning, in the context of my post (which was - hello - a broad overview of things), of 'shortly', while the actual argument gets lost somewhere. That's what I find so irritating. To give another example: I've just written about how poor both Ireland and Wales were in the early to mid-90s. So up you'll pop to helpfully point out that Ireland beat England in 1993 and 1994; or that Wales beat England in '93, and won the Championship in '94. Yes: but both were still crap, and I doubt it's an era either fanbase recalls with much, or any fondness. Welsh pundits that I've spoken to regard '94 as a missed opportunity to progress.

 

Shaun - I've seen your type of character (just as I see those who mirror Therapist) on other forums (non-sporting ones). You are well-educated but beneath that lies an insecurity in which you need to impress others so that they can think "how great you are". Essay-like posts in mass volume which present yourself as being "a fountain of all knowledge" are clearly targeted at those easily impressed by such things. For those who bother to read through your posts in their entirety, little inaccuracies regarding an interpretation of the past are found and when you are pulled up on such things, we get the hissy fits displayed towards myself and Tazio on this thread over the past 24 hours. Although one bit of credit I will give you is that unlike other intellectuals keen for cyber approval because it does something for their self-esteem, once someone puts a dent in their argument they usually disappear from that particular forum. The fact you haven't suggests their is some hope for you but hey. If you're going to treat us all to a monologue, go through it with a fine tooth comb before submitting it if you are that touchy about somebody pointing out an inaccuracy.

 

And by the way, I share Geoff's opinion about Mr Jones (my beef being his belittlement of Scotland's 1984 grand slam triumph). Butler has unfortunately slipped into a comfort zone (probably hacked off with the way newspaper owners are treating the industry - which is understandable). Kitson - I must confess I have not read. Moore - prefer his commentating to be honest. His writing style doesn't flow well for me. You missed out Kevin Ferrie in your list of writers. Given the way the SRU have been trying to censor him because he warned of the scenario that unfolded for the Scotland team this weekend, he is one worth reading. Special mention as well for John Beattie too as well as Alasdair Reid.

[shaun.lawson]

Shaun - I've seen your type of character (just as I see those who mirror Therapist) on other forums (non-sporting ones). You are well-educated but beneath that lies an insecurity in which you need to impress others so that they can think "how great you are". Essay-like posts in mass volume which present yourself as being "a fountain of all knowledge" are clearly targeted at those easily impressed by such things. For those who bother to read through your posts in their entirety, little inaccuracies regarding an interpretation of the past are found and when you are pulled up on such things, we get the hissy fits displayed towards myself and Tazio on this thread over the past 24 hours. Although one bit of credit I will give you is that unlike other intellectuals keen for cyber approval because it does something for their self-esteem, once someone puts a dent in their argument they usually disappear from that particular forum. The fact you haven't suggests their is some hope for you but hey. If you're going to treat us all to a monologue, go through it with a fine tooth comb before submitting it if you are that touchy about somebody pointing out an inaccuracy.

 

And by the way, I share Geoff's opinion about Mr Jones (my beef being his belittlement of Scotland's 1984 grand slam triumph). Butler has unfortunately slipped into a comfort zone (probably hacked off with the way newspaper owners are treating the industry - which is understandable). Kitson - I must confess I have not read. Moore - prefer his commentating to be honest. His writing style doesn't flow well for me. You missed out Kevin Ferrie in your list of writers. Given the way the SRU have been trying to censor him because he warned of the scenario that unfolded for the Scotland team this weekend, he is one worth reading. Special mention as well for John Beattie too as well as Alasdair Reid.

 

I like reading all those writers you mentioned. I didn't make a "mistake": for the umpteenth time on here, you misunderstood what I wrote.

 

And as for me all being about "impress(ing) others" so they "think how great I am" - pfft. It's a messageboard, for heavens sake! I'm about debating with others on many different areas: that's what I've always loved doing, and probably always will.

 

Impressing others? That's the clique's job.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Denny/Lawson - youse are ruining this thread. Either draw a line or feck the feck off

[Chris Benoit]

Font of Knowledge.

 

Not wanting to get involved in your little spat and I realise I'm being pedantic but it's one of those things that grinds my gears.

[Tazio]

Font of Knowledge.

 

Not wanting to get involved in your little spat and I realise I'm being pedantic but it's one of those things that grinds my gears.

 

 

I'd say fount of knowledge personally.

[Chris Benoit]

I'd say fount of knowledge personally.

 

That's your preference but it certainly isn't fountain

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Back on topic (if that alright with you lot) armitage banned for France game. Quite right too. Commentator was having a laugh when he said 'nothing he could do, just one of those things'.

[magicTs]

Read a stat this morning -

 

Scotland's RWC tries : 1987-21, 1991-20, 1995-20, 1999-18, 2003-11, 2007-15, 2011-4.

 

Anyone still wondering what went wrong? This Scotland team = simply not good enough. I fully understand that the team and the coaches gave their all and I felt sorry for the forwards on Saturday but this is a pretty damning decline is it not?

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Anyone still wondering what went wrong? This Scotland team = simply not good enough. I fully understand that the team and the coaches gave their all and I felt sorry for the forwards on Saturday but this is a pretty damning decline is it not?

 

Definitely. The trouble is, you can't teach flair or imagination. You can school forwards in technique and organisation but a lot of tries rely on instinct. Scotland are handicapped by bod standard, uninspired backs

[Boof]

Read a stat this morning -

 

Scotland's RWC tries : 1987-21, 1991-20, 1995-20, 1999-18, 2003-11, 2007-15, 2011-4.

 

Anyone still wondering what went wrong? This Scotland team = simply not good enough. I fully understand that the team and the coaches gave their all and I felt sorry for the forwards on Saturday but this is a pretty damning decline is it not?

 

 

Cracking site for stats here but surely there's a couple of possible reasons why Scotland have scored fewer tries this time out.

 

1) The opposition are of better quality (we beat Ivory Coast 89-0 in 1995)

2) Opposition are better organised and can play a more spoiling game thereby reducing the number of points they concede

3) We're not as good as we used to be

[magicTs]

Cracking site for stats here but surely there's a couple of possible reasons why Scotland have scored fewer tries this time out.

 

1) The opposition are of better quality (we beat Ivory Coast 89-0 in 1995)

2) Opposition are better organised and can play a more spoiling game thereby reducing the number of points they concede

3) We're not as good as we used to be

 

 

Of course, all contributory factors no doubt about it but I'd be surprised if the other traditional rugby powers have seen a drop off anywhere near as alarming so it can't simply be blamed on improvements of the smaller and developing rugby nations. I think the most damning thing is that the 4 tries we did score were in our first game, we subsequently played over 4 hours of rugby without crossing the white line something however bad we have been at doing in recent six nations championships is a record worse than anybody could surely have feared beforehand. Looking at other try counts even Georgia and Romania in our group managed 3 a piece however Japan got 8, Canada 9 and Russia 6 so without even going near the big guns or even the middle ranked sides its a fair indictment of what we achieved in an attacking sense.

[Sergio Garcia]

Ireland v Wales

 

England v France

 

South Africa v Australia

 

New Zealand v Argentina

 

Are my predictions, although the top 3 games will be very tight.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Ireland v Wales

England v France

South Africa v Australia

New Zealand v Argentina

 

I'm going Wales (v tough to call that one), England, SA and NZ.

[Tazio]

I've got a feeling there is one more shock result to come in this world cup.

 

Not sure where though.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Good start from the country which, as Ali G once said, is only 200 miles from England

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Think Ireland team look like they've gone over the hill.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Game over. Two of the softest tries I've ever seen Ireland concede. End of the line for a few of them.

 

Btw, I realise I'm speaking to myself here

[neilnunb]

I set the alarm for 6 but dozed off and missed the first half. Managed to get up for the 2nd though. Wales looking good but if Ireland get a quick try back, Wales might rue those two missed kicks.

 

Saying that, Ireland have just missed the chance and Wales have the ball back.

[portobellojambo1]

Having watched some of the games I thought at the group stages the Irish might be the only nation who could possibly compete with the Southern hemisphere sides up front in the latter stages, due to the work ethic of their pack. That theory was blown out of the water this morning, where Wales won the game due to their front 8. Ireland just didn't turn up at all, and Wales did very well to beat them

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Mon england

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

allez les bleus

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

allez les bleus

 

Sorry, if we're speaking in lingo then I should of said 'tally ho boys!'

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

In the bag already

[kingantti1874]

Allez les blues if only to see that roaster Steve riders face tripping him

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Allez les blues if only to see that roaster Steve riders face tripping him

 

If only...lol. You hate this England team

[neilnunb]

:)

[neilnunb]

England conceding loads of penalties again. Very nice!

[kingantti1874]

If only...lol. You hate this England team

 

No sorry don't hate England - said before in this thread I supported them in 03... I hate the baseless arrogance. I also hate that **** Ashton

[kingantti1874]

LOL

[neilnunb]

TRY!!!!!

 

[Harry Palmer]

 

 

England are shite.

[chester copperpot]

 

 

England are shite.

wales will beat either of these 2.

[neilnunb]

France better not rue those 2 missed kicks!

 

Mind you, from that kickout earlier it doesn't look like Wilkonson's kicking has improved much

[kingantti1874]

Next score France please

[neilnunb]

TRY!!!!!

[Harry Palmer]

[kingantti1874]

As usual England = all talk

[neilnunb]

I think what makes this even better was all the talk prior to the match of the hundreds of England fans who had made the trip over in the build up to the game!