Boris Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 What was valid about the protest? Do you know the details of the shooting? You, like Boris, jump to the conclusion that the Police were wrong, which just shows up your own prejudices. No! The family protested because they wanted info from the Police...who normally would speak to the family, but no-one did hence why it all kicked off. Not saying the Police were wrong or right in the shooting incident, but fair to say they were wrong in how they handled the fall out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 What was valid about the protest? Do you know the details of the shooting? You, like Boris, jump to the conclusion that the Police were wrong, which just shows up your own prejudices. See my previous reply to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 It has been used against him. He's been racially assaulted by Glasgow police and puts up with all manner of racial abuse from members of the public. I was at university at the same time as him That guy was a BMW driving, Socialist Worker which equates to double roasterdom in anybody's language. Far from provoking sympathy or anger the photo's of him with his teeth kicked out by Strathclydes finest raised wry smiles from his fellow students of all races and classes. I'm not saying that the police rising to the bait and letting him provoke them was right I'm just saying it was funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Wiseau Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Now that's a top post right there. Other than looters themselves, I am yet to see a single person condoning or making excuses for their actions. Seen lots of people being accused as such though. Much easier to stick the fingers in the ears and say "pure mindless criminality" than actually try and understand why people have felt it acceptable, or even conscionable, to behave in the way they have over the past 4 days. I would suggest that may be because scratching the surface of this would force us to hold a mirror up to the kind of society we have created in this country, and we won't like what we see. Easier to stay in that bubble, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Other than looters themselves, I am yet to see a single person condoning or making excuses for their actions. Seen lots of people being accused as such though. Much easier to stick the fingers in the ears and say "pure mindless criminality" than actually try and understand why people have felt it acceptable, or even conscionable, to behave in the way they have over the past 4 days. I would suggest that may be because scratching the surface of this would force us to hold a mirror up to the kind of society we have created in this country, and we won't like what we see. Easier to stay in that bubble, I suppose. But what happens when that bubble bursts? Good posts FB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Other than looters themselves, I am yet to see a single person condoning or making excuses for their actions. Seen lots of people being accused as such though. Much easier to stick the fingers in the ears and say "pure mindless criminality" than actually try and understand why people have felt it acceptable, or even conscionable, to behave in the way they have over the past 4 days. I would suggest that may be because scratching the surface of this would force us to hold a mirror up to the kind of society we have created in this country, and we won't like what we see. Easier to stay in that bubble, I suppose. http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/08/201189105816840954.html Read it and weep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I don't agree that he does bring a lot of hatred on himself (if that's what you meant) but you are right in that the stance he takes does make him an easy target for idiots. I'm just suggesting that if he calmed down a bit on the appearances on tv everytime someone has a gripe and continued to go about his business in the manner he has up till now then he would be less of a target. I'm not asking him to change his views, as it would be boring if we all thought the same things. He is on the tv as often as that Geordie comedian Sarah Millican at the minute, I'm half expecting to see him appearing on a panel quiz show with Jimmy Carr soon!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coney Island Baby Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 just seen this posted on twitter That's from the Vancouver riots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Brody Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Rough justice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky_26 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 That's from the Vancouver riots either way it is hilarious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Rough justice thats the stuff, i figgin hate cyclists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 No! The family protested because they wanted info from the Police...who normally would speak to the family, but no-one did hence why it all kicked off. Not saying the Police were wrong or right in the shooting incident, but fair to say they were wrong in how they handled the fall out. OK its all the Polices fault. Again you don't know the details. Why were the police not talking to the family? There may have been a reason. For all you or I know it may have been linked to a major anti-crime operation? My point is that you have drawn a conclusion that even in thefollow-up, in your words, Police were "wrong" despite the fact you or I know nothing about what really happened. Maybe they were wrong, maybe they wern't. But you already have decided. As for wider issues - the social gap is natural in all societies and there will always be a narural order, even in animal societies. Alpha-males, nurturers, worker drones, all that stuff. Its natural behaviour in all species to have a "pecking-order". The difference is that in human society effort is made to support those at the bottom, schools, welfare, healthcare etc. In animal society it is different - those at the bottom are either left for predators or in many cases murdered by the rest to protect the group. Apes are a good example of that. Interestingly also apes instill extreme physical discipline on their "teenagers" to conform to troup norms, and if they don't they can be simply murdered by the rest. But my point was that those who looted (it was not a riot - it was a looting exercise) were no necessarily at the bottom of the pile, as evidenced by the 31-year old employed teacher so I don't buy the knee-jerk "rejected and ignored" excuse that always comes out. They ain't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartsfc_fan Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Rough justice They are standing there like terminators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wibble Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 There's a theory floating around that the police stood off to show the government how making cuts to police budgets were a very bad idea. It could also be linked to the way Cameron hung the Met out to dry in the News International scandal. There'd be plenty of senior police would like to see Cameron get a blood nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 There's a theory floating around that the police stood off to show the government how making cuts to police budgets were a very bad idea. It could also be linked to the way Cameron hung the Met out to dry in the News International scandal. There'd be plenty of senior police would like to see Cameron get a blood nose. Quite possibly. Boris is, ironically, benefitting from it too. He isn't as stupid as he looks, or sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Quite possibly. Boris is, ironically, benefitting from it too. He isn't as stupid as he looks, or sounds. lol. Which boris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italian Lambretta Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 Looks like the jails are going to filled with the scum that's being looting. One 31 year old black guy pleaded guilty this morning to 1 count of burglary. The Sheriff has referred sentencing to the High Court because he feels he doesn't have enough sentencing powers. Looks like the guy who works in a Primary school is going to get at least a year in jail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boof Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Quite possibly. Boris is, ironically, benefitting from it too. He isn't as stupid as he looks, or sounds. BoJo presumably - not wir Boris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italian Lambretta Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 Seen this earlier on the BBC and it's really cheered me up. At last some retribution to the scumbags who have causing all this trouble. Rough justice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysthereinspirit Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 There's a theory floating around that the police stood off to show the government how making cuts to police budgets were a very bad idea. It could also be linked to the way Cameron hung the Met out to dry in the News International scandal. There'd be plenty of senior police would like to see Cameron get a blood nose. Maybe this is the kick up the @$$ required to show present and any future government that cutting police numbers in this age is not the answer. The money that they forcast saving is long gone in only 4 days. Years ago we brought in the army for picking up trash and putting out fires. Now is the right time to at least have them on the streets even if its just as a show of force. Thats if there are any available in Britain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 lol. Which boris? Johnson. Not our erudite Marxist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 What a load of rubbish. Whilst there are rare exceptions which i'm sure you will take great delight in quoting to me, to say that there are opportunities for youth who have grown in abject poverty with no family structure and no educational structure is naive in the extreme. To then say that all they need to do is work harder borders on insulting. Social mobility in the country is embarrassingly bad and to see people who think being poor is not be able to afford Sky HD taking a moral high ground is depressing. are you ******* kidding me? no education systems - we have a free education system which is one of the finest in the world, open to all and presents the same opportunity to all, abject poverty? again are you joking - the have a roof, tv's smart phones, free health care all provided by the state. As for no jobs - if there are no jobs why do we have huge eqstern european communities here to fill the roles our little shite bags are to figgin lazy to do... (by the way, i have huge respect for these communities) as regards family structure, i agree with you on that - you have arseholes with no moral fibre, breeding legions of little future arseholes with even less moral fibre... its not the kids fault initially - but none of these factors excuse not knowing the difference between right and wrong... these little dick weeds do not know how good they have it... they expect to have lifes luxuries without lifting a finger to do it, they epxect that our taxes should subsidise their drug taking, drinking andsmoking livestyles whilst at the same time supplementing them with ipads and plasmas... this country a ******* joke - i really hope the limp wristed liberal, give them a ******* hug, brigade are happy with themselves. No nonse policing, harsh sentencing for both the offenders and their rat parents, NOT a penny from the state unless you contribute to it - either volunteer work or national service or whatever it takes to make these chumps contribute, give teachers the RIGHT to enforce discipline, remove vulnerable children from drug addict parents and abusive homes and loosen the restriction on adoption for good people and most of all prevent the vermin from breeding unless they are judged fit to do so, you need a liscence to breed dogs for god sake but any druggie twats can go breed a family of 10.... i really hope this is a tipping point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wibble Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 It will be interesting to hear how a police issue bullet ended up embeded in a policeman's radio. The same radio that was claimed to contain a bullet from a shootout with Duggan. It seems like the cops made up a really piss poor story after killing him (not for the first time ... remember the shit they came out with after topping the poor Brazilian guy). There's plenty of strangeness in all of this for the conspiracy theorists. The shooting almost certainly contains some level of cover-up and the police standoff is very odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoJack Horseman Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Other than looters themselves, I am yet to see a single person condoning or making excuses for their actions. Seen lots of people being accused as such though. Much easier to stick the fingers in the ears and say "pure mindless criminality" than actually try and understand why people have felt it acceptable, or even conscionable, to behave in the way they have over the past 4 days. I would suggest that may be because scratching the surface of this would force us to hold a mirror up to the kind of society we have created in this country, and we won't like what we see. Easier to stay in that bubble, I suppose. I wonder how many of the rioters are first time offenders. And how many have previous criminal records. I'd place a bet that a vast majority have committed a criminal act, convicted or not. They didn't need a reason then and they don't need one now. I really don't believe there's some deep rooted psychological reason for all of this. The people involved are mindless criminals that have no regard for the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 It will be interesting to hear how a police issue bullet ended up embeded in a policeman's radio. The same radio that was claimed to contain a bullet from a shootout with Duggan. It seems like the cops made up a really piss poor story after killing him (not for the first time ... remember the shit they came out with after topping the poor Brazilian guy). There's plenty of strangeness in all of this for the conspiracy theorists. The shooting almost certainly contains some level of cover-up and the police standoff is very odd. i have no syspathy - regardless of whether the bullet came from his gun or not, you travel around with a loaded gun you run the risk of being shot by the police... what would you epxect the guy to do? wait till he pulls it... one more dangerous arsehole off the streets... well done to the police.. i sure as hell wouldnt hang around either re brazian guy was completely different, they though he had a bomb for god sake shortly after 05/07.. i do agree in both instances they should have told the truth right away - however what is it about society that means the police are scared to own up to a genuine error... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Clarke Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 No! The family protested because they wanted info from the Police...who normally would speak to the family, but no-one did hence why it all kicked off. Not saying the Police were wrong or right in the shooting incident, but fair to say they were wrong in how they handled the fall out. I think Police procedure means they can't talk about it to the family/public while there is an ongoing police investigation into the incident. In hindsight it probably would have been good to make an exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Root Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Water cannons and plastic bullets. Let's get it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 i do agree in both instances they should have told the truth right away - however what is it about society that means the police are scared to own up to a genuine error... Well the Met have been shown to be corrupt, self serving tossers. One of them killed someone live on TV and it took a loooooong time for them to even think about pressing charges. Not murder mind! You or I? Knicked and sent packing to the Chateau d'Ife toute suite! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wibble Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Truth is these riots didn't look half as bad as the Rangers fans in Manchester. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nrH2KRDsXg&feature=related Try to spot a black guy amongst this mob of soapdodgers. Race has nothing to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Well the Met have been shown to be corrupt, self serving tossers. One of them killed someone live on TV and it took a loooooong time for them to even think about pressing charges. Not murder mind! You or I? Knicked and sent packing to the Chateau d'Ife toute suite! it wasnt murder for me if its the exampllle im thinking off, assault at best, look - if your going to be violent or attend violent protests shit happens... i for one wish the police had more power to take out the trash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Well the Met have been shown to be corrupt, self serving tossers. One of them killed someone live on TV and it took a loooooong time for them to even think about pressing charges. Not murder mind! You or I? Knicked and sent packing to the Chateau d'Ife toute suite! You mean the cop that pushed the guy over when he was trying to hold them up? The guy who was "innocently walking home" despite being filmed repeatedly in the two hours preceding in the same area obstructing Police? Is pushing someone now murder? Did the Police officer intend to murder the guy? Your prejudices are clouding your judgement. The victim had been there for at least two hours and had been filmed on a number of occasions. After two hours he was still there and he was still trying to obstruct Police so a cop pushed him and he fell over. But in your view no doubt he was innocently walking home and murdered by a Police officer live on film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 it wasnt murder for me if its the exampllle im thinking off, assault at best, look - if your going to be violent or attend violent protests shit happens... i for one wish the police had more power to take out the trash I'm talking about the newspaper stand man that was simply walking home before a stormtrooper riot cop attacked him. Hardly Mr Tomlinson's fault! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoJack Horseman Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Truth is these riots didn't look half as bad as the Rangers fans in Manchester. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nrH2KRDsXg&feature=related Try to spot a black guy amongst this mob of soapdodgers. Race has nothing to do with it. The sound effects in that are top notch. True though, that does look pretty mental. Were the rangers fans trashing every shop and nicking all it's gear though? Genuine question, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Here is a interesting vid; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-qCFcjaC7Q&feature=related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Root Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 it wasnt murder for me if its the exampllle im thinking off, assault at best, look - if your going to be violent or attend violent protests shit happens... i for one wish the police had more power to take out the trash The guy was on his way home from work, not at any protests. Walked in front of the copper who batoned his leg then full on shoved him to the ground. Manslaughter certainly, though if a boxer can be done for murder if he kills someone with a punch, so should a policeman in full riot gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I'm talking about the newspaper stand man that was simply walking home before a stormtrooper riot cop attacked him. Hardly Mr Tomlinson's fault! think deeside answered conclusively for me.. if the guy genuine wasnt involved which was hugely debately he should have walked the other way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 You mean the cop that pushed the guy over when he was trying to hold them up? The guy who was "innocently walking home" despite being filmed repeatedly in the two hours preceding in the same area obstructing Police? Is pushing someone now murder? Did the Police officer intend to murder the guy? Your prejudices are clouding your judgement. The victim had been there for at least two hours and had been filmed on a number of occasions. After two hours he was still there and he was still trying to obstruct Police so a cop pushed him and he fell over. But in your view no doubt he was innocently walking home and murdered by a Police officer live on film. Can't say I've seen this other footage you refer to or indeed even heard it mentioned before. Not saying that it doesn't exist, just that I haven't seen that evidence. One can only come to conclusions based on the evidence one sees! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 think deeside answered conclusively for me.. if the guy genuine wasnt involved which was hugely debately he should have walked the other way he tried that, three different times his path was blocked off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Dover Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I was reading a small article about this issue and within 4 lines we got the classic "lessons will need to be learned" ? FFS sake how thick are these HIGHLY TRAINED officers if every action sees them having yet more 'lessons to learn' and who the **** is leading them forward if yet another 'raft of measures' needs to be put in place in the aftermath? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I think what antti's post is reflective of is a mood where law abiding taxpayers are fed up of excuses for those who don't pay their way and contribute little to society. Perhaps politicians should admit that they simply can't square the circle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.J Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 think deeside answered conclusively for me.. if the guy genuine wasnt involved which was hugely debately he should have walked the other way Should the Met have lied that officers trying to help Tomlinson were attacked? Should the Met have lied when issuing a statement on behalf of Tomlinson's family? Should Harwood have lied when stating he himself had been attacked minutes before? Should the Met have lied when stating that Tomlinson in fact hadn't been assaulted at all?! Now, I'm not one of they Sherlock Holmes', but I'm fairly certain that "walking the wrong way home" is fairly ****ing minor compared to that, no? Still, the lad got what he deserved, I guess. Jesus wept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 No 1 in 1981 during riot season: Ghost Town by the Specials No 1 in 2011 during riot season: Swagger Jagger by Cher Lloyd. Says it all. Seriously. From brilliant, consciousness-raising pop to bragging, individualistic, consumerism-as-politics fluff. Something of the same could be said for the UK itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Dover Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 he tried that, three different times his path was blocked off. Yeh granted the chap maybe didn't leg it when first told to do so ( although I believe he received a whack for his trouble even then ) but he clearly wasn't your stereotypical rioter yet the police made no distinction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reiver Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Aww, the poor defenceless drunken scumbag. He was dawdling and making a nuisance of himself impeding the movement of the police line. Yeah the policeman acted outside of regulations but i can't fault him for it given the situation. It would have been better to just arrest him rather than shove him but to call it murder by a "stormtrooper" is messed up and shows your vile prejudice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 No 1 in 1981 during riot season: Ghost Town by the Specials No 1 in 2011 during riot season: Swagger Jagger by Cher Lloyd. Says it all. Seriously. From brilliant, consciousness-raising pop to bragging, individualistic, consumerism-as-politics fluff. Something of the same could be said for the UK itself. When was the last time you bought a single? The dynamic of music has changed so the comparison is lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Should the Met have lied that officers trying to help Tomlinson were attacked? Should the Met have lied when issuing a statement on behalf of Tomlinson's family? Should Harwood have lied when stating he himself had been attacked minutes before? Should the Met have lied when stating that Tomlinson in fact hadn't been assaulted at all?! Now, I'm not one of they Sherlock Holmes', but I'm fairly certain that "walking the wrong way home" is fairly ****ing minor compared to that, no? Still, the lad got what he deserved, I guess. Jesus wept. i agree with you - my point is they shouldnt have felt the need to lie, they should just have been able to say yep, we felt they the need to control the crowds with a little bit of force and this guy was unfortunately the casulty of a freak accident... why did they need to lie...? they are within their right to control a crowd and pushing someone is not over the top by any means... blame the arsehole g20 protestors who were bieng violent. i still have my doubts over his reason for being there though, unless they were corraled into a circle the last place youd walk if innocent is between the mob and the riot police.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Aww, the poor defenceless drunken scumbag. He was dawdling and making a nuisance of himself impeding the movement of the police line. Yeah the policeman acted outside of regulations but i can't fault him for it given the situation. It would have been better to just arrest him rather than shove him but to call it murder by a "stormtrooper" is messed up and shows your vile prejudice. Well, some of us remember the relish the Police took in their "job" during the Miner's Strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 When was the last time you bought a single? The dynamic of music has changed so the comparison is lame. Obviously I'll disagree! The dynamic of music has changed, as has the dynamic of our society. Therefore the comparison is valid, whether I buy singles or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Can't say I've seen this other footage you refer to or indeed even heard it mentioned before. Not saying that it doesn't exist, just that I haven't seen that evidence. One can only come to conclusions based on the evidence one sees! Thats your problem! The evidence you (and everybody) saw was a cop pushing a guy who was obstructing him. If that is murder then I'm glad you are not a judge. It doesn't really matter that he had been there for over two hours getting wide with the Police - at the end of it all he was shoved and fell over. If you Boris pushed someone on the way out from Tynie and he fell over then died you would not be charged with murder. Assault or possibly manslaughter. Yet you go for murder I presume because he was a Police Officer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Wiseau Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I wonder how many of the rioters are first time offenders. And how many have previous criminal records. I'd place a bet that a vast majority have committed a criminal act, convicted or not. They didn't need a reason then and they don't need one now. I really don't believe there's some deep rooted psychological reason for all of this. The people involved are mindless criminals that have no regard for the law. I think you've got the right stick, but at the wrong end. First of all, how many people on here have committed a criminal act in their days, convicted or not? I'd bet (conservatively) upwards of 90% - use of recreational drugs, traffic offences, shoplifting as a youngster, underage drinking, illegal downloading, etc etc etc. Now, I am aware that you may have a specific definition in mind for your "criminal acts", and you may dispute some or all of my list - that's malum in se and malum prohibitum for you, if you believe in the distinction. The point remains though, that it is simplistic to say "I bet they're all criminals of some kind", just as it is simplistic to disregard the entire thing as "mindless criminality". Yes, the acts are criminal, yes they are unjustifiable and inexcusable, yes these people have no regard for the law and yes they are done with no thought or concern for others. Folk don't just go rioting without deeper root causes and issues, though. I think it would be a huge mistake to ignore those causes and issues and simply go on as before. There's always a "why" and imo without trying to solve the issues at the heart of the "why", we will always be one step away from times like these. Here is a interesting vid; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-qCFcjaC7Q&feature=related Interesting in that Darcus Howe is a slavering relic whose divisive rhetoric illustrates the kinds of attitudes we need to see the back of in today's society - "have some respect for an old West Indian *****"; how about, "have some respect for a fellow citizen"? Interesting in that the BBC are so out of touch that they decided this relic would be the ideal person to comment on these riots. Interesting in that the BBC reporter did not have the foggiest who he was and was so antagonistic and disrespectful the 'interview' degenerated into farce. Don't think anyone came out of that at all well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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