please join in the protest

[frankblack]

But how is that going to change for the better FB? It`s exactly why some fans want to protest.

 

Have you forgotten it`s Romanov who calls the shots to an extent and rules with an iron fist over transfers? As long as Romanov remains at the club i doubt we`ll ever have that feeling of being proper football club like we did in the Mercer days or thereafter before VR came.

 

No, but the reality is Romanov is here until he decides to sell or liquidate the club. Repeating my earlier point, he won't put us into Administration as he and his companies are the creditors.

 

Therefore, we have to accept Romanov and his "eccentricities". I think that protests and "Vlad GTF" chants baiting him would be like waving a red rag to a bull - it will simply result in him winding us up. As others have pointed, perhaps it will take 15 years of financial savings and budgeting to shave the debt down to make the club sellable. I believe that is the remit given to Cambell Ogilvie, so therefore, I think we will just have to wait it out.

 

This goes back to my point that Romanov is the long term objective and the short term one is the team and management. I am not convinced by Laszlo's negative tactics and ability to change a game when Plan A isn't working. He doesn't have a plan B, and playing 4-5-1 against Hamilton, St Johnstone, and Falkirk at home is disgraceful. Goals are scored by the team not usually by one player on their own, and his tactics don't open up teams to create chances.

 

I think the Killie game may give a false hope to people that we have turned the corner, when it appears it was simply a case that Killie were even worse than us on the day. Hamilton will be interesting at the weekend as they will prove harder opponents - will Csaba be able to cope?

 

Wallace Mercer trusted his manager and let him get on with the job of galvanising the team/club and getting the players playing for a team they`d be honed on caring about. I know Vlad has taekn on something he didn`t have to, and i hold my hands up to him for that, but the guy`s strategy isn`t really working is it ? bar the 2005/06 season when he really cared as an owner should.

 

Csaba has said in interviews that Romanov doesn't meddle in the team, as he did in the past. Is it Romanov's fault we signed 6 players but Csaba didn't sign a striker as a priority. Perhaps the failure of the Setanta deal bust our budget by then - is it Romanov's fault we signed the likes of Suso and Bouzid when we could have used the funds on a striker?

 

Mercer is long gone and his biggest mistake was selling his shares to Robinson. How I wish he had got that move to Hermiston Gait and remained in charge longer.

 

As I said above, I blame the team manager, Laszlo for the underperformance of the team and lack of motivation they seem to be getting. He still seems in a huff that money wasn't left to sign a striker when he should have been getting on with doing his job.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I dont want new players,but if he is getting rid of our GOOD ones,well replace them with at very least DECENT ones.Not like the 70 ****ty ones that have already passed through the gates.Rant as you put it over.

Now hardman jog on and find a man to argue with.Come back in January when Driver and Wallace go and tell me how wonderfull the new signings are.

Not that you'll know right enough watching you're 6 games a season on tv.

 

Hardman? I'm not exactly sure how you feel threatened but I was trying to enter into dialogue.

 

Who would you sign out of interest?

[shaun.lawson]

What age are Hicks & Gillet? or Glaser? ..... the point is if UBIG / Romanov jnr want to recoup the lions share of their money they have to restore our finances which means making the football club profitable ...... with or without Vlad this is what any owner is going to have to do unless they have oodles of money to throw at HMFC ...... also administration wouldn't necessarily help as that doesn't make the debts disappear and the administrator is legally obliged to act in the creditors best interests not the football clubs. Hearts have overspent continuously for almost 15 years, that has to stop and be reversed however long it takes.

 

Somehow, I don't envisage massive global brands like Manchester United and Liverpool being unable to find a buyer over the next five years, Charlie. I have a huge problem envisaging it happening at Hearts, given the financial reality you've been oh-so-quick to remind us of over the past year or two.

 

Do I think Hearts will ever be profitable under Romanov's watch? I think you'd have to be living on the moon to think we will be. Look at the losses, year on year; look at the wage bill and general staffing costs which have been utterly inexplicable for a club of our size and natural means. The idea that we'll somehow trade our way out of this position is beyond absurd; and even more absurd given you appear to think Hey Big Spender can somehow metamorphose into Prudence.

[Seymour M Hersh]

I think a lot more will be revealed come feb when this UBIG moneys owed situation comes to ahead.

 

In the meantime a small protest is going to be irrelevent.

 

Perhaps it will be but if they decide to close up shop there appears to be little we as fans can do about it. Such is their total control. At least with pie-rat pressure could be exerted on a couple of levels.

[Guest King]

the running of the club and also want to hear why there has been no plans unveiled or new application for the new main stand also ma mate keenan says he,ll be there

 

lol

 

This has to be a wind up

[scott_jambo]

I dont want new players,but if he is getting rid of our GOOD ones,well replace them with at very least DECENT ones.Not like the 70 ****ty ones that have already passed through the gates.Rant as you put it over.

Now hardman jog on and find a man to argue with.Come back in January when Driver and Wallace go and tell me how wonderfull the new signings are.

Not that you'll know right enough watching you're 6 games a season on tv.

 

It's our debt thats the problem, not new players. New players equals more debt. We should be tightening the purse strings.

 

The protest should be about Romanov's wreckless handling of the finances of our club, as it could go to the wall at any moment.

 

.......new players....honestly, how narrow minded can one person be.

 

We need to empty the club of all the high wages, bring in a couple of players in the tail end of there careers and pray our youth blossom. i.e. like Motherwell and Aberdeen.

 

We also have to actively recruit Scotland best youths to trade our way out of our debt in the next 20 years. We seem to do well in that department at the moment luckily.

 

One more Pinilla signing and I will be out there with big bad pete.

[Ray Winstone]

Pete's right hand man as the protest starts to get into full swing.....

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RTc32qBpAk

[Le Chat]

I think a lot more will be revealed come feb when this UBIG moneys owed situation comes to ahead.

 

In the meantime a small protest is going to be irrelevent.

 

In all seriousness, would the potential protesters not be better keeping their powder dry until it becomes clear what's going to happen with this ?

 

If they do another debt for equity swap and sell either Trigger or Driver the debt could be down to about ?12M or thereabouts. A figure which is still a sh*tload but is potentially manageable.

 

If they fail to repay the loan and just lump it onto the debt then bash on. I may even join them as long as there's a competent figurehead and a clear purpose/strategy etc.

[berrasbraw]

Hardman? I'm not exactly sure how you feel threatened but I was trying to enter into dialogue.

 

Who would you sign out of interest?

Feel threatened by you!!!!! You're having a girraffe.I just dont see you replying to anyone elses threads apart from mines.

I dont know who i would have signed,but i could find better strikers over my local park.A few people have asked who actually does our scouting and nobody knows. I'll bet you,you could think of players he could have brought in but never.It isn't just about the players that makes me sick with Vlad it's a million things.

[scott_jambo]

Feel threatened by you!!!!! You're having a girraffe.I just dont see you replying to anyone elses threads apart from mines.

I dont know who i would have signed,but i could find better strikers over my local park.A few people have asked who actually does our scouting and nobody knows. I'll bet you,you could think of players he could have brought in but never.It isn't just about the players that makes me sick with Vlad it's a million things.

 

You arent related to Kitster are you?

[heehaw]

yes folks it was me on real radio last night , am trying to organise a protest at the celtic game as am sick of the board plus gary mackay who seems to know more than hes letting on as last summer gary went to kaunas for a meeting with the coward and was told of his visions for our club anyway am no ****ing hobo and love hearts like my son so am going to be outside the main stand after the game protesting at the whole of the board remmeber vlads niece is on the board and reports back to him, have also got a piece going in the een the friday before the game to drum up support as the more the merrier , i just want to get the message across that we are not a ****ing toy thats gonna get dumped cos the owners lost intrest , you may think that he,ll no here about it well for me its only the ****ing beginning as i have friends who work at the balmoral hotel that will let me know when hes in town and i,ll be outside the hotel lettong him no what i think of way of dealings is , anyway please help me and some others on the day as this is OUR CLUB thanks peter

 

eh........NO

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Feel threatened by you!!!!! You're having a girraffe.I just dont see you replying to anyone elses threads apart from mines.

I dont know who i would have signed,but i could find better strikers over my local park.A few people have asked who actually does our scouting and nobody knows. I'll bet you,you could think of players he could have brought in but never.It isn't just about the players that makes me sick with Vlad it's a million things.

I only responded because you replied to a point of mine. It's called debate.

 

Anyway, I have meetings to go to. I hope you are feeling empowered by the planned protest, futile as it is.

[berrasbraw]

It's our debt thats the problem, not new players. New players equals more debt. We should be tightening the purse strings.

 

The protest should be about Romanov's wreckless handling of the finances of our club, as it could go to the wall at any moment.

 

.......new players....honestly, how narrow minded can one person be.

 

We need to empty the club of all the high wages, bring in a couple of players in the tail end of there careers and pray our youth blossom. i.e. like Motherwell and Aberdeen.

 

We also have to actively recruit Scotland best youths to trade our way out of our debt in the next 20 years. We seem to do well in that department at the moment luckily.

 

One more Pinilla signing and I will be out there with big bad pete.

Yea agree with that,

I am not narrow minded mate,i just think we need a couple to steady the ship,especially if they 2 go. But i dont want players on huge wages.For instance we could have had Kyle for ?2k a week,instead he gave us Nade on 16.Ihave already said that the other teams in SPL are doing well in bringing youngsters through,and we need to do the same.It sickens me we have to sell Wallace and Driver when Nade,Obua,Kingston etc are there ripping us off.

[Nucky Thompson]

lol

 

This has to be a wind up

I've been thinking that since the start:10900: Totally bizarre:hat2:

[scott_jambo]

Yea agree with that,

I am not narrow minded mate,i just think we need a couple to steady the ship,especially if they 2 go. But i dont want players on huge wages.For instance we could have had Kyle for ?2k a week,instead he gave us Nade on 16.Ihave already said that the other teams in SPL are doing well in bringing youngsters through,and we need to do the same.It sickens me we have to sell Wallace and Driver when Nade,Obua,Kingston etc are there ripping us off.

 

Glad we agree.

 

Your post does sound a bit racist though.

[Munch]

its an undercover hobo its obvious

[berrasbraw]

I only responded because you replied to a point of mine. It's called debate.

 

Anyway, I have meetings to go to. I hope you are feeling empowered by the planned protest, futile as it is.

And you carry on watching you're 6 games a season thinking everything is wonderful,while we buy our season tickets to pay wage thiefs and a mad owner

[shaun.lawson]

In all seriousness, would the potential protesters not be better keeping their powder dry until it becomes clear what's going to happen with this ?

 

If they do another debt for equity swap and sell either Trigger or Driver the debt could be down to about ?12M or thereabouts. A figure which is still a sh*tload but is potentially manageable.

 

If they fail to repay the loan and just lump it onto the debt then bash on. I may even join them as long as there's a competent figurehead and a clear purpose/strategy etc.

 

Quick point on this. I totally agree about what happens in February being key - but it's quite impossible a debt write-off or equity swap would reduce the debt to ?12m.

 

The last recorded figure was a little over ?30m as at 31/7/08. This was after a year in which we'd sold Gordon and Bednar, had a ?12m debt for equity exercise, yet the debt only fell by ?6m. Do the maths mate: I appreciate the wage bill is falling, but in the next financial year, we only sold Berra for a significant transfer fee, and will have had the usual high interest costs to pay on the debt. Based on all previous figures as to how much this club loses every year, the debt will have been close to ?40m at the end of July, and four months on, will have climbed again.

 

In other words, even if ?17.6m is converted to equity, our debt is still likely to be in the high 20s; mid 20s if we get significant dosh on player sales in January. We'll still be technically insolvent in other words, despite almost ?30m having been converted to shares! What are UBIG going to do? Keep providing massive equity swaps every 18 months or so, just to ensure the figure stands still? The whole thing is beyond belief.

[kingantti1874]

Yep, more convinced than ever this is a **** take, all the chief peotesters have suspiciously low post counts-usually people are hounded unfairly for that but this time it looks obvious! The half dozen or so jambos who turn up at the protest will undoubtedly be met by jeremy beadle in a hobo top and be shamed on hibs net!!

[berrasbraw]

Glad we agree.

 

Your post does sound a bit racist though.

Listen mate,i'm just saying Scottish players for an instance.I would welcome,black,catholic,muslim players for us,as long as they were on lower wages and willing to put a shift in.I said they 3 because they seem to be on higher wages.And would have said the same if they were Scottish and white and ripping us off.

[Le Chat]

Think you're maybe overshooting it a bit Shaun.

 

Another ?5M loss (dont expect much more than that) would take it up to ?35M give or take. ?17.5M debt forgiveness plus ?2.5-?3M for Trigger or Driver would have it at about ?15M or so.

[scots civil war]

theres a lot of daily mail readers on here eh

 

 

 

 

WHAT ABOUT THIS KEENAN CHAP PETER??????

 

 

[shaun.lawson]

Think you're maybe overshooting it a bit Shaun.

 

Another ?5M loss (dont expect much more than that) would take it up to ?35M give or take. ?17.5M debt forgiveness plus ?2.5-?3M for Trigger or Driver would have it at about ?15M or so.

 

Without what were extraordinary sums in terms of player sales (which we can't match now: Gordon was a one-off) and the DFE in 07/8, we'd have lost around ?14m. Well, there was no DFE and no Gordon sale in 08/9 - so while I'd love to find we only lost ?5m last year, I can't for the life of me see how it's possible.

[Boris]

WHAT ABOUT THIS KEENAN CHAP PETER??????

 

 

 

He's become a hostage to fortune.

[blairdin]

Think you're maybe overshooting it a bit Shaun.

 

Another ?5M loss (dont expect much more than that) would take it up to ?35M give or take. ?17.5M debt forgiveness plus ?2.5-?3M for Trigger or Driver would have it at about ?15M or so.

 

This. kinda.

 

I would be very very happy if this is where we were come February 2010, but I just can't see it Le Chat. Reckon even with the above playing out we'll still be in the red to the tune of ?20-?25m IMHO. Still in a helluva better position than we find ourselves in now and it would be big steps in the right direction. Dare I say it, I'd probably applaud Mad Vlad for at last heading in the right direction.

 

Protest? Gimme a break.

[Charlie-Brown]

Somehow, I don't envisage massive global brands like Manchester United and Liverpool being unable to find a buyer over the next five years, Charlie. I have a huge problem envisaging it happening at Hearts, given the financial reality you've been oh-so-quick to remind us of over the past year or two.

 

Do I think Hearts will ever be profitable under Romanov's watch? I think you'd have to be living on the moon to think we will be. Look at the losses, year on year; look at the wage bill and general staffing costs which have been utterly inexplicable for a club of our size and natural means. The idea that we'll somehow trade our way out of this position is beyond absurd; and even more absurd given you appear to think Hey Big Spender can somehow metamorphose into Prudence.

 

Where has been the big spending in 2008 & 2009? We've seen staff cuts in terms of player numbers reduced siginificantly, wage cuts in terms of contracts offered, no new high earning players signed although some still obviously earn too much relative to their value, high earning players released or sold, transfer fees retained not spent, very little spent on the squad - only Balogh & some teenage youth prospects have seen any transfer fees spent etc. Csaba urges spend more on the team whilst Vlad & the board urge him to use academy players - there has already been a sea change in spending patterns although obviously that takes time to be reflected in the accounts.

 

Unless / until HMFC's figures are significantly improved there will be no change of ownership - not in 1 year, 5 years or 10 years unless corrective action is taken by UBIG - they've already taken steps in the right direction and C.Ogilvie has stated on a number of occassions of the 50-60% wages/turnover target ....... maybe if the ?17M due next year can be taken off the debt - either by debt-equity swap or perhaps more realistically by exchanging stadium ownership for debt relief then whilst still far from great the debt becomes a more manageable & serviceable level meaning the club will be a slightly more attractive propostion and if the club can be run within means then gradually the debt will reduce as long as the club doesn't overspend but it will not be painless or quick.

[Skiba]

We (Those who protest) will make us look like a bunch of half-wits, as the number involved could be embarrassing and not reflective of the fanbase.

 

If it was a genuine, fully backed by the fans protest then for those who want it Vlad may sit up and notice from his castle in Transylvania.

 

I just get the feeling he wouldn't really give a toss about what the fans want.

 

He may think Damned If I Do(Team Interference, 100 Lithuanian Signings), Damned if I don't(Steps back from Team Matters, Only 3 Lithuanians in the squad).

 

He may also say as a contributor the other day indicated 'I gave Csaba ?1 Million in the summer, more than a lot of managers got, why are the fans turning on me?'

[Buffalo Bill]

I asked these questions on this thread 117 posts ago. Can any of the protesters answer them please?

 

----------

 

 

 

Where exactly are you meeting? Is it the nursery side? The middle bit? Or the Gorgie Suite end?

 

 

How do you identify eachother before the protest?

 

 

And what will you be doing?

 

 

Will there be singing? Chanting? Shouting? Placards?

 

 

If so, what songs will be sung?

 

 

What demands are being made?

 

 

Thanks.

[scott_jambo]

Listen mate,i'm just saying Scottish players for an instance.I would welcome,black,catholic,muslim players for us,as long as they were on lower wages and willing to put a shift in.I said they 3 because they seem to be on higher wages.And would have said the same if they were Scottish and white and ripping us off.

 

Just kidding. I understand.

[portobellojambo1]

Yea agree with that,

I am not narrow minded mate,i just think we need a couple to steady the ship,especially if they 2 go. But i dont want players on huge wages.For instance we could have had Kyle for ?2k a week,instead he gave us Nade on 16.Ihave already said that the other teams in SPL are doing well in bringing youngsters through,and we need to do the same.It sickens me we have to sell Wallace and Driver when Nade,Obua,Kingston etc are there ripping us off.

 

Are you not jumping the gun a little, and making assumptions as to who will definitely be leaving.

 

If playing at the top of their games I would have suspected/agreed the likeliness is we may have tried to cash in on both the players you mention, however Driver is now out injured until January, and has failed to perform at a level so far this season which would attract potential suitors willing to spend big. Likewise Lee's form this season has dipped way below what he achieved last season. Therefore if they were to be sold in January it would be for knock down prices. We'd be lucky to get ?750,000 for each at the moment in all honesty.

 

So, the alternative is to look at present high earners, and in my eyes that makes it more likely that Nade, Kingston and Obua will leave the club, reducing the wage bill by ?1.8 million, and giving us the option of selling Driver and Wallace at a later date for higher amounts.

[Victorian]

IIRC there was a statement after the last accounts were published along the lines of it being accepted that the debt would increase in the short to medium term.

 

given this and one more important thing, it seems highly unlikely to me that the ?17M amount due in repayment will be converted to equity.

 

the other thing being that the previous debt for equity swap involved a sum of ?12M for 13% equity... not exactly a great deal for romanov. IIRC again there is precious little left to play with until the entire equity holding reaches 100%. ?17M for a few more % would represent financial madness for vlad and UBIG.

 

i think it will simply be deferred and the interest payments will just keep on flowing over.

[shaun.lawson]

Where has been the big spending in 2008 & 2009? We've seen staff cuts in terms of player numbers reduced siginificantly, wage cuts in terms of contracts offered, no new high earning players signed although some still obviously earn too much relative to their value, high earning players released or sold, transfer fees retained not spent, very little spent on the squad - only Balogh & some teenage youth prospects have seen any transfer fees spent etc. Csaba urges spend more on the team whilst Vlad & the board urge him to use academy players - there has already been a sea change in spending patterns although obviously that takes time to be reflected in the accounts.

 

Unless / until HMFC's figures are significantly improved there will be no change of ownership - not in 1 year, 5 years or 10 years unless corrective action is taken by UBIG - they've already taken steps in the right direction and C.Ogilvie has stated on a number of occassions of the 50-60% wages/turnover target ....... maybe if the ?17M due next year can be taken off the debt - either by debt-equity swap or perhaps more realistically by exchanging stadium ownership for debt relief then whilst still far from great the debt becomes a more manageable & serviceable level meaning the club will be a slightly more attractive propostion and if the club can be run within means then gradually the debt will reduce as long as the club doesn't overspend but it will not be painless or quick.

 

The wages/turnover target is cloud cuckoo land at a club which managed to lose ?14m before player sales and the DFE in 07/8. And as stated above, I think if the ?17.6m is converted to equity - which you have to think it will be - our debt as of Feb '10 will still be in the mid-20s, leaving us still technically insolvent despite two colossal conversions.

 

What should this club's wage bill be? ?5m-?6m tops. Even with all the cuts, can I see us achieving this? Nope. Meanwhile, other staffing costs were a massive part of the 07/8 loss: might've been remedied a bit since, but hardly dramatically; and we keep having to part with ?3m plus on the interest. I think the only way UBIG can keep the debt figure still is if they keep providing huge DFE swaps: for how long can they possibly afford this? And you should recall what was said at the AGM: the club expects the debt to keep rising.

[J.T.F.Robertson]

In all seriousness, would the potential protesters not be better keeping their powder dry until it becomes clear what's going to happen with this ?

 

If they do another debt for equity swap and sell either Trigger or Driver the debt could be down to about ?12M or thereabouts. A figure which is still a sh*tload but is potentially manageable.

 

If they fail to repay the loan and just lump it onto the debt then bash on. I may even join them as long as there's a competent figurehead and a clear purpose/strategy etc.

 

Was that not anticipated after the last swap and the CG money, though? In fact, the numbers just got worse.

[magicTs]

it will not be painless or quick.

 

Do you believe the current level of season ticket holders will be sustained throughout your latest 15 year plan ?

 

I think there will be a substantial drop in numbers for 2010-11 nevermind several years of "it will not be painless or quick".

[Hungry hippo]

Without what were extraordinary sums in terms of player sales (which we can't match now: Gordon was a one-off) and the DFE in 07/8, we'd have lost around ?14m. Well, there was no DFE and no Gordon sale in 08/9 - so while I'd love to find we only lost ?5m last year, I can't for the life of me see how it's possible.

 

I agree with Shaun. I was in the camp that was arguing last year that the debt would come down to around ?22m or something like that but it didn't even under the exceptional circumstances due to massive costs.

 

Although we have reduced our costs in the past financial year, this will save ?2m at the most I would guess and will still leave us trading at a massive loss excluding (and probably including also) player trading I fear.

 

That doesn't mean that anything would be achieved by protesting though.

[Charlie-Brown]

The wages/turnover target is cloud cuckoo land at a club which managed to lose ?14m before player sales and the DFE in 07/8. And as stated above, I think if the ?17.6m is converted to equity - which you have to think it will be - our debt as of Feb '10 will still be in the mid-20s, leaving us still technically insolvent despite two colossal conversions.

 

What should this club's wage bill be? ?5m-?6m tops. Even with all the cuts, can I see us achieving this? Nope. Meanwhile, other staffing costs were a massive part of the 07/8 loss: might've been remedied a bit since, but hardly dramatically; and we keep having to part with ?3m plus on the interest. I think the only way UBIG can keep the debt figure still is if they keep providing huge DFE swaps: for how long can they possibly afford this? And you should recall what was said at the AGM: the club expects the debt to keep rising.

 

I think you need to take a closer look at the accounts shaun and remember which period they account for - 2007-08 we are now midway through 2009-10 which is 1.5 reporting years later, since those last set of accounts Pinilla, Beslija, Makela, Tall, Berra, Basso, Karipidis, Aguiar, Banks & Neilson have all left Hearts without being replaced by anybody on comparable wages - also umpteen Kaunas & young players have left the club - total player numbers have fallen by approx 25% - this year Kingston, Nade, Goncalves go out of contract and I don't see much if any chance of them being retained so again they should be a healthy chunk of the wage bill.

 

Numerous other club staff & management layers have also been stripped out - Lopez, Korobochka, Koslovski, Cervenkov etc.

 

The previous debt for equity swap was predicted to save 600K per year in interest payments.

 

There have been a lot of steps in the right direction regards reducing costs but of course player contract dates dictate how quickly savings can be made.

[Drew Busby !]

[Charlie-Brown]

Do you believe the current level of season ticket holders will be sustained throughout your latest 15 year plan ?

 

I think there will be a substantial drop in numbers for 2010-11 nevermind several years of "it will not be painless or quick".

 

More attractive football would certainly stem any potential loss of ST sales - much of the football we've been watching last season & this season has been very negative & defensive - that is the managers choice - he could change the emphasis - other managers don't send their teams out to be as deliberately negative as we often do but yes unless the fare on offer improves ST sales will fall - this is why Aberdeen & Hibs replaced their managers and why Hearts previously replaced Jordan & McLean becuase they were significantly lowering attendances.

[shaun.lawson]

I think you need to take a closer look at the accounts shaun and remember which period they account for - 2007-08 we are now midway through 2009-10 which is 1.5 reporting years later, since those last set of accounts Pinilla, Beslija, Makela, Tall, Berra, Basso, Karipidis, Aguiar, Banks & Neilson have all left Hearts without being replaced by anybody on comparable wages - also umpteen Kaunas & young players have left the club - total player numbers have fallen by approx 25% - this year Kingston, Nade, Goncalves go out of contract and I don't see much if any chance of them being retained so again they should be a healthy chunk of the wage bill.

 

Numerous other club staff & management layers have also been stripped out - Lopez, Korobochka, Koslovski, Cervenkov etc.

 

The previous debt for equity swap was predicted to save 600K per year in interest payments.

 

There have been a lot of steps in the right direction regards reducing costs but of course player contract dates dictate how quickly savings can be made.

 

I very much hope you're right. Unfortunately, come March/April when the accounts for 08/9 are published, my suspicion is you'll be frantically spinning away - but we'll see.

[blairdin]

More attractive football would certainly stem any potential loss of ST sales - much of the football we've been watching last season & this season has been very negative & defensive - that is the managers choice - he could change the emphasis - other managers don't send their teams out to be as deliberately negative as we often do but yes unless the fare on offer improves ST sales will fall - this is why Aberdeen & Hibs replaced their managers and why Hearts previously replaced Jordan & McLean becuase they were significantly lowering attendances.

 

On season tickets - it's inevitable numbers will fall, but I think if Mad Vlad admitted we're skint and employed a manager to play a team made mainly of teenage kids from our Academy who would bleed maroon (as opposed to some of the wage theives we have now) then a large number of season ticket holders will stick with the club.

[magicTs]

More attractive football would certainly stem any potential loss of ST sales - much of the football we've been watching last season & this season has been very negative & defensive - that is the managers choice - he could change the emphasis - other managers don't send their teams out to be as deliberately negative as we often do but yes unless the fare on offer improves ST sales will fall - this is why Aberdeen & Hibs replaced their managers and why Hearts previously replaced Jordan & McLean becuase they were significantly lowering attendances.

 

What utter drivel. Crowds will drop because we will be uncompetitive due to the mass mismanagement of the clubs finances resulting in us scrambling about in the bargain basement and doing it badly at that. They will drop because no Hearts manager is allowed to manage in a normal manner (like Hibs or Aberdeen in fact) and because people are sick fed up of the shambles Hearts have become. The disconnection between the punters and the team Romanov has landed us with will be why ST's fall over the coming years starting next summer when those who have swithered in recent years will not be fooled again.

[magicTs]

I very much hope you're right. Unfortunately, come March/April when the accounts for 08/9 are published, my suspicion is you'll be frantically spinning away - but we'll see.

 

That already begun earlier today. Sheeesh, a 15 year plan will certainly buy plenty time.

[berrasbraw]

Are you not jumping the gun a little, and making assumptions as to who will definitely be leaving.

 

If playing at the top of their games I would have suspected/agreed the likeliness is we may have tried to cash in on both the players you mention, however Driver is now out injured until January, and has failed to perform at a level so far this season which would attract potential suitors willing to spend big. Likewise Lee's form this season has dipped way below what he achieved last season. Therefore if they were to be sold in January it would be for knock down prices. We'd be lucky to get ?750,000 for each at the moment in all honesty.

 

So, the alternative is to look at present high earners, and in my eyes that makes it more likely that Nade, Kingston and Obua will leave the club, reducing the wage bill by ?1.8 million, and giving us the option of selling Driver and Wallace at a later date for higher amounts.

Thats who i'd rather get rid off too mate,i want Driver and Wallace to stay.But Csaba has said that he has to sell them.So i'm only listening to what everyone else is being told.

Hope you are right.

[portobellojambo1]

Thats who i'd rather get rid off too mate,i want Driver and Wallace to stay.But Csaba has said that he has to sell them.So i'm only listening to what everyone else is being told.

Hope you are right.

 

I was under the impression he has been told he has to sell before he can buy, but as far as I'm aware (although I admit I've not looked into it in any sort of depth, only what I've read on here) he's not been told per se which players he has to sell/release.

 

I would think if he can put a case that it makes more sense to release high earners than young players who may make more in transfer fees at a future date it is something which will be taken into consideration. However, one would have to assume that if the savings were being made in wages any potential replacement(s) would have to be sourced as free transfers, but on lower wages to ensure savings of a sort.

[DETTY29]

Are you not jumping the gun a little, and making assumptions as to who will definitely be leaving.

 

If playing at the top of their games I would have suspected/agreed the likeliness is we may have tried to cash in on both the players you mention, however Driver is now out injured until January, and has failed to perform at a level so far this season which would attract potential suitors willing to spend big. Likewise Lee's form this season has dipped way below what he achieved last season. Therefore if they were to be sold in January it would be for knock down prices. We'd be lucky to get ?750,000 for each at the moment in all honesty.

 

So, the alternative is to look at present high earners, and in my eyes that makes it more likely that Nade, Kingston and Obua will leave the club, reducing the wage bill by ?1.8 million, and giving us the option of selling Driver and Wallace at a later date for higher amounts.

 

Thing is PJ1, common sense and Hearts these days is a not very harmonious relationship. Even though I still doubt we would get less than 7 figures, for notably Wallace just now. Being an attacking player, there is more scope for Driver to go for more, but only if fitness and renewed form permits.

[Charlie-Brown]

What utter drivel. Crowds will drop because we will be uncompetitive due to the mass mismanagement of the clubs finances resulting in us scrambling about in the bargain basement and doing it badly at that. They will drop because no Hearts manager is allowed to manage in a normal manner (like Hibs or Aberdeen in fact) and because people are sick fed up of the shambles Hearts have become. The disconnection between the punters and the team Romanov has landed us with will be why ST's fall over the coming years starting next summer when those who have swithered in recent years will not be fooled again.

 

Hearts, Hibs & Aberdeen fans are remarkably loyal and their attendance levels have remained remarkably stable for a long time - why was there no protest talk last season when we were 3rd yet there is now that we've been down to 9th this season when very little has changed in 6 months? Football fans are very fickle and if Csaba / or any other Hearts manager gets the team winning or playing better football then the crowds will remain fairly consistent - rubbish football is what is fuelling discontent and Csaba is as much to blame for that as Vlad as he sets the stall out every week - other managers like Jim Gannon manage to be much more positive with less resources.

[Charlie-Brown]

That already begun earlier today. Sheeesh, a 15 year plan will certainly buy plenty time.

 

Even if Romanov walked away tomorrow and gave you or somebody else ownership of the club for ?1 as long as you took on the debt it would take you or anybody else approx 15 years to undo 15 years overspending at HMFC as that is how many years consecutive losses (bar 1 year i think?) we've made - it will take a level of financial prudence not seen since Mercers time and pre-bosman to restore Hearts finances ... it took Hibs from approx 1992-2007 from when Farmer took control until fairly recently to put them back in the black so why would it take Hearts any less time unless somebody has pots of money to throw at the club or else we can get some financial windfalls? This is true if Vlad owns Hearts or not.

[Charlie-Brown]

I very much hope you're right. Unfortunately, come March/April when the accounts for 08/9 are published, my suspicion is you'll be frantically spinning away - but we'll see.

 

I think there will have been a year on year saving on the wage bill and total staff numbers starting 2009-10 season were less again than 2008-09 season but this years AGM it would be helpful if somebody asked C.Ogilvie or S.Fraser or whoever else is in attendance what the estimated 'current' wage bill is to get a more accurate snapshot of where we are today.

[magicTs]

Even if Romanov walked away tomorrow and gave you or somebody else ownership of the club for ?1 as long as you took on the debt it would take you or anybody else approx 15 years to undo 15 years overspending at HMFC as that is how many years consecutive losses (bar 1 year i think?) we've made - it will take a level of financial prudence not seen since Mercers time and pre-bosman to restore Hearts finances ... it took Hibs from approx 1992-2007 from when Farmer took control until fairly recently to put them back in the black so why would it take Hearts any less time unless somebody has pots of money to throw at the club or else we can get some financial windfalls? This is true if Vlad owns Hearts or not.

 

Straight yes or no answer -

 

Do you think Romanov is the correct person to implement your 'plan' ?

 

It is pure make believe in my opinion to think he is capable of it nevermind interested enough to make it happen.

[Charlie-Brown]

On season tickets - it's inevitable numbers will fall, but I think if Mad Vlad admitted we're skint and employed a manager to play a team made mainly of teenage kids from our Academy who would bleed maroon (as opposed to some of the wage theives we have now) then a large number of season ticket holders will stick with the club.

 

Correct although I don't think it would be commercially astute to say "we're skint" if they want to attract decent bids for players .... but something along these lines will happen anyway is my prediction - Csaba seems to be just too far out of step from the direction the club wants to go ... but we'll see?