please join in the protest

[Victorian]

My thoughts entirely. I'm in full accordance with Therapist on the financial realities, incidentally - but as I pointed out last week, it seems for all the world that the logical conclusion of his argument is given we're technically insolvent and too expensive and unprofitable for anyone to buy, it's only a matter of time before the club dies: until Romanov either gets too old or can no longer afford to prop us up.

 

And that's a seriously dispiriting conclusion. No wonder people are trying to do something, however hopeless the situation appears.

don't think it's as black & white as that.

 

there seems to be room for hope that one day the club will move on to another owner if romanov decides to take a haircut on the money tied up in the club and if any new owners can arrange finance of a large part of the debt with another creditor.

[Therapist]

So you do have concerns but are too scared to voice them incase Big Bad Vlad takes the huff ?

 

I've been through a lot worse and had the intestinal fortitude not to press the panic button. This is not a crisis by any stretch of the imagination, and I am not going to cack in Hearts' nest in a vain attempt to prove I'm some sort of super fan who is more concerned than any of the others.

 

Crack on with the protest, but the protesters will simply show themselves up as a bunch of misguided simpletons.

[Cow]

This thread is like groundhog day. Same pesh , different page.

[Charlie-Brown]

My thoughts entirely. I'm in full accordance with Therapist on the financial realities, incidentally - but as I pointed out last week, it seems for all the world that the logical conclusion of his argument is given we're technically insolvent and too expensive and unprofitable for anyone to buy, it's only a matter of time before the club dies: until Romanov either gets too old or can no longer afford to prop us up.

 

And that's a seriously dispiriting conclusion. No wonder people are trying to do something, however hopeless the situation appears.

 

Shaun the logical conclusion is that Romanov / UBIG have to make Hearts more profitable and eventually not too expensive or unviable otherwise they will never be able to recoup the monies they've spent ...... that means though players like Craig & Jason Thomson, David Templeton not Rudi Skacel or Takis Fyssas or Christos Karipidis.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Drylaw, do the guy Pete a favour and offer to give him some help with his protest. More people would take it seriously if someone with some ability to communicate was behind it.

 

I've already stated that I don't think a protest is the way to go at the moment so for that reason I'm not going to offer any help to organise it.

 

Maybe Pete could contact the Federation of Hearts Supporters on the below link and ask them to contact their members and see if they think a meeting between fans and club is necessary.

 

http://www.fohsc.moonfruit.com/#/contact-us/4536275723

[Francis Albert]

the running of the club and also want to hear why there has been no plans unveiled or new application for the new main stand also ma mate keenan says he,ll be there

 

So this is what 17 pages and counting is about? The internet and radio chat shows have a lot to answer for.

[Gigolo-Aunt]

I bought a key ring from the SOH shop on Gorgie Road. It burst, pretty poor quality it has to be said.

 

If Pete and co are going down a similar route, make sure the quality is up to the standard required.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Woopee doo,i left out Skacel,his pishy signings will NEVER add up to even Craig Gordons.Considering the arse brought in 80/90 players the ONLY ones that have MADE him money are the ones that have already been at the club i.e again Gordon,Hartley,Berra,and now Wallace and Driver. And exactly how long did Skacel actually stay under that nutter.And soon the 2 Thomsons will be ofski aswell.

Its actually you that makes me SPEECHLESS,that you can even consider loving that dictator.Do you actually go to the games????????????

 

I take it logic isn't a concept you are familiar with!

[leginten]

I bought a key ring from the SOH shop on Gorgie Road. It burst, pretty poor quality it has to be said.

 

If Pete and co are going down a similar route, make sure the quality is up to the standard required.

 

I'm hoping for blow-up Rodney dolls.

 

For a friend.

[audrey65]

So you do have concerns but are too scared to voice them incase Big Bad Vlad takes the huff ?

 

Scared is perhaps not the right word. I am certainly fearful of the consequences of Vlad taking a huff but I wouldnt say I was scared. I am in agreement with therapist here.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Moreso now that you are on it

 

If I want to have a pop at Vlad I dont need a protest thread to do so. Every nook and cranny in Hearts has issues upon which you can easily attack his incompetence. Hearts are riddled with problems that are down to him

 

This thread has kind of proved the point I was making earlier though

 

Pete is Emily Davison, Drylaw is Emmeline Pankhurst.....

 

We all know that Jammy you'll twist any positive thread into an anti Vlad thread at the drop of a hat. That's why I suggested you were loving this thread, I'm not wrong either.

[shaun.lawson]

Shaun the logical conclusion is that Romanov / UBIG have to make Hearts more profitable and eventually not too expensive or unviable otherwise they will never be able to recoup the monies they've spent ...... that means though players like Craig & Jason Thomson, David Templeton not Rudi Skacel or Takis Fyssas or Christos Karipidis.

 

From a starting point of ?30m debt, a technically insolvent club, and operating losses which in the most recent accounts would've been in eight figures without the sales of two players, one of whom fetched a fee we cannot hope to get anywhere near in the foreseeable future, and a ?12m debt to equity conversion, it's awfully hard to see how they do this. Not unless they write off the ?17.6m due in February, which'd constitute a heck of a sacrifice on their part.

 

You yourself have commented over and over again how few buyers are out there for British football clubs nowadays. A club in our financial position is amongst the least likely to find someone willing to take us off the current owner's hands.

[magicTs]

My thoughts entirely. I'm in full accordance with Therapist on the financial realities, incidentally - but as I pointed out last week, it seems for all the world that the logical conclusion of his argument is given we're technically insolvent and too expensive and unprofitable for anyone to buy, it's only a matter of time before the club dies: until Romanov either gets too old or can no longer afford to prop us up.

 

And that's a seriously dispiriting conclusion. No wonder people are trying to do something, however hopeless the situation appears.

 

Sadly thats the reality as far as I'm concerned. There is little us the ordinary fans can do about the overall picture so we have 2 choices; either quietly pray something might happen meaning future generations can enjoy HMFC all along knowing this is unlikely and that we are facing a slow depressing death or unite like never before, in greater numbers, forcing the owner to either change his whole outlook toward HMFC or actively seek a buyer but with the knowledge that he may react very negatively toward us and run the club into the ground fairly quickly.

 

Neither is a very appettising prospect. Do nothing and we are in touble in due course, do something and we may be in trouble soon. Rare.

[magicTs]

Shaun the logical conclusion is that Romanov / UBIG have to make Hearts more profitable and eventually not too expensive or unviable otherwise they will never be able to recoup the monies they've spent ...... that means though players like Craig & Jason Thomson, David Templeton not Rudi Skacel or Takis Fyssas or Christos Karipidis.

 

You can tell Charlie Brown has become a father and been reading plenty fairytales recently.

[berrasbraw]

 

I take it logic isn't a concept you are familiar with!

Jut noticed you lived in OZ,kinda thought so,if you went to the games you would see the guff we have to endure weekly,anyway why not answer my post instead of the snidey comments,and away and pick on a guy hardman.Nitpick all you like you will NEVER change my mind OK bully.Move back here and start going to games and then you TELL me you're opinions.What do actually contribute to MY club apart from licking Vlads arse.

[cosanostra]

Scared is perhaps not the right word. I am certainly fearful of the consequences of Vlad taking a huff but I wouldnt say I was scared. I am in agreement with therapist here.

 

I think it was Arnold J Rimmer who said that "when you dangle your wedding tackle into the mouth of a hungry lion, it's not wise to flick it in the love spuds with a wet towell."

 

Kind of sums up our current predicament with Vlad owning the club.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Jut noticed you lived in OZ,kinda thought so,if you went to the games you would see the guff we have to endure weekly,anyway why not answer my post instead of the snidey comments,and away and pick on a guy hardman.Nitpick all you like you will NEVER change my mind OK bully.Move back here and start going to games and then you TELL me you're opinions.What do actually contribute to MY club apart from licking Vlads arse.

 

What points precisely? I saw an incoherent rant!

 

Would I like Romanov to sell up and go? Yes. Chances? Between slim and none.

[shaun.lawson]

Sadly thats the reality as far as I'm concerned. There is little us the ordinary fans can do about the overall picture so we have 2 choices; either quietly pray something might happen meaning future generations can enjoy HMFC all along knowing this is unlikely and that we are facing a slow depressing death or unite like never before, in greater numbers, forcing the owner to either change his whole outlook toward HMFC or actively seek a buyer but with the knowledge that he may react very negatively toward us and run the club into the ground fairly quickly.

 

Neither is a very appettising prospect. Do nothing and we are in touble in due course, do something and we may be in trouble soon. Rare.

 

Absolutely mate.

[Cow]

I think it was Arnold J Rimmer who said that "when you dangle your wedding tackle into the mouth of a hungry lion, it's not wise to flick it in the love spuds with a wet towell."

 

Kind of sums up our current predicament with Vlad owning the club.

 

pmsl

[Charlie-Brown]

From a starting point of ?30m debt, a technically insolvent club, and operating losses which in the most recent accounts would've been in eight figures without the sales of two players, one of whom fetched a fee we cannot hope to get anywhere near in the foreseeable future, and a ?12m debt to equity conversion, it's awfully hard to see how they do this. Not unless they write off the ?17.6m due in February, which'd constitute a heck of a sacrifice on their part.

 

You yourself have commented over and over again how few buyers are out there for British football clubs nowadays. A club in our financial position is amongst the least likely to find someone willing to take us off the current owner's hands.

 

I already posted elsewhere that time is the only way UBIG or HMFC can hope to make good the damage done to Hearts balance sheet over a 15 year period - it will take a decade or more of prudent financial management to restore Hearts finances, living within means, selling players & paying back debt plus any other financial windfalls to improve finances - I don't know why anybody thinks a long term problem can be solved in the short term? But first they have to stop us bleeding money and bring costs down below revenues ...... there simply is no other way that I can see that is viable or likely however more people care whether Csaba will get a new striker and if players leave than what is best for the balance sheet .... and rightly so - we're not Hobo's afterall.

[audrey65]

I think it was Arnold J Rimmer who said that "when you dangle your wedding tackle into the mouth of a hungry lion, it's not wise to flick it in the love spuds with a wet towell."

 

Kind of sums up our current predicament with Vlad owning the club.

 

Delightfully put

[HelloSunshine]

the running of the club and also want to hear why there has been no plans unveiled or new application for the new main stand also ma mate keenan says he,ll be there

 

Fair enough reasons for a protest - although would you kindly elaborate on the 'running of the club' part to give this thing some focus.

 

Also, has your mate Keenan (or anyone else that's IN) got any songs or chants in mind for the protest?

[Munch]

The smell has over come me.:smell_hobo: go on back to junkie land and give it up

[shaun.lawson]

I already posted elsewhere that time is the only way UBIG or HMFC can hope to make good the damage done to Hearts balance sheet over a 15 year period - it will take a decade or more of prudent financial management to restore Hearts finances, living within means, selling players & paying back debt plus any other financial windfalls to improve finances - I don't know why anybody thinks a long term problem can be solved in the short term? But first they have to stop us bleeding money and bring costs down below revenues ...... there simply is no other way that I can see that is viable or likely however more people care whether Csaba will get a new striker and if players leave than what is best for the balance sheet .... and rightly so - we're not Hobo's afterall.

 

15 year period? You do realise Vlad is 62 now, don't you?

[Rods]

I think it was Arnold J Rimmer who said that "when you dangle your wedding tackle into the mouth of a hungry lion, it's not wise to flick it in the love spuds with a wet towell."

 

Kind of sums up our current predicament with Vlad owning the club.

 

I think you are right

 

The protest or protests could have a couple of effects.

 

I am hoping one day that vlad may want to sell us on. Even at a loss to UBIG.

 

He will realise his long term efforts are not going to be Fruitfull. As he has already made an in the most part a right tit of running the club.

 

This protest may just be the start of something

 

Maybe he will also get peed off at our ungratefullness and run us into the ground.

[Everybody loves Baz]

Jut noticed you lived in OZ,kinda thought so,if you went to the games you would see the guff we have to endure weekly,anyway why not answer my post instead of the snidey comments,and away and pick on a guy hardman.Nitpick all you like you will NEVER change my mind OK bully.Move back here and start going to games and then you TELL me you're opinions.What do actually contribute to MY club apart from licking Vlads arse.

 

YOUR CLUB???

 

Sorry to burst your bubble, but HMFC aint your club, It's Vlads.

 

Nowt you or any one of your fellow protesters can do about it.

[Dougie Masterton]

This threads been running longer than Coronation Street:stuart:

[Victorian]

I've already stated that I don't think a protest is the way to go at the moment so for that reason I'm not going to offer any help to organise it.

 

Maybe Pete could contact the Federation of Hearts Supporters on the below link and ask them to contact their members and see if they think a meeting between fans and club is necessary.

 

http://www.fohsc.moonfruit.com/#/contact-us/4536275723

 

DH you are a super contributor to the debate and a right good guy as i have always said but.... you voted yes in the poll about who would attend the protest!!!

 

[berrasbraw]

What points precisely? I saw an incoherent rant!

 

Would I like Romanov to sell up and go? Yes. Chances? Between slim and none.

The points of the players he's selling,the players that were there since they were youngsters and the guff he's replacing them with.I dont want players on huge wages,but other managers/owners seem to find gems while we are left with keek,on huge wages.I know Vlad wont leave but we have never protested before so we wont know what he'll do until the protest happens.Something has to give.It's sickening to see our neighbours over the road doing so well on a tiny wage bill with hardly any debt.And he was the man that wasted millions bringing in crappy players,puting them on huge wages thinking he would sell them on for a fortune when good Scottish/British players were right under his nose that maybe would have brought him in good money.But he doesn't trust anyone Scottish as he has them working for the OF.He would rather pay Nade and Kingston ?16 A WEEK.

[cosanostra]

I think you are right

 

The protest or protests could have a couple of effects.

 

I am hoping one day that vlad may want to sell us on. Even at a loss to UBIG.

 

He will realise his long term efforts are not going to be Fruitfull. As he has already made an in the most part a right tit of running the club.

 

This protest may just be the start of something

 

Maybe he will also get peed off at our ungratefullness and run us into the ground.

 

The sad thing is Rents, Vlad is probably ignorant and egotistical enough to think that we like him. He probably also thinks that we believe him that our position is because of Pressley, Burley, Anderton, referees, the SFA, the SPL etc

 

The guy is mental.

[Victorian]

15 year period? You do realise Vlad is 62 now, don't you?

some folk are quite spritely at 77 years these days shaun.

 

imagine a crabbit and dodery auld vlad.... deary dear.

[berrasbraw]

YOUR CLUB???

 

Sorry to burst your bubble, but HMFC aint your club, It's Vlads.

 

Nowt you or any one of your fellow protesters can do about it.

Yes i look on as MY club and every other season ticket holder.We will be there long after he's gone.My opinion ok.

[shaun.lawson]

some folk are quite spritely at 77 years these days shaun.

 

imagine a crabbit and dodery auld vlad.... deary dear.

 

The mind boggles. I dunno whether to laugh or cry at the thought!

[cosanostra]

His dancing must keep him pretty fit.

[Victorian]

The mind boggles. I dunno whether to laugh or cry at the thought!

scary... and by which time rodders will be about 50 and should have the stature and air of a teenager.

[Drylaw Hearts]

I've been through a lot worse and had the intestinal fortitude not to press the panic button. This is not a crisis by any stretch of the imagination, and I am not going to cack in Hearts' nest in a vain attempt to prove I'm some sort of super fan who is more concerned than any of the others.

 

Crack on with the protest, but the protesters will simply show themselves up as a bunch of misguided simpletons.

 

Why do you have to 'cack in Hearts nest' ?

 

I thought a man as clever as your good self would be able to put your points/concerns across eloquently without upsetting VR and his troops.

 

If you really think VR is so unstable that he could take the huff and close us down at having to explain a few things to the fans who go along and put their hard earned in each week then I think we really do have a problem.

[shaun.lawson]

scary... and by which time rodders will be about 50 and should have the stature and air of a teenager.

 

[Charlie-Brown]

15 year period? You do realise Vlad is 62 now, don't you?

 

What age are Hicks & Gillet? or Glaser? ..... the point is if UBIG / Romanov jnr want to recoup the lions share of their money they have to restore our finances which means making the football club profitable ...... with or without Vlad this is what any owner is going to have to do unless they have oodles of money to throw at HMFC ...... also administration wouldn't necessarily help as that doesn't make the debts disappear and the administrator is legally obliged to act in the creditors best interests not the football clubs. Hearts have overspent continuously for almost 15 years, that has to stop and be reversed however long it takes.

[Gigolo-Aunt]

scary... and by which time rodders will be about 50 and should have the stature and air of a teenager.

 

hahahahahahahah

[jambovambo]

I don't think it's a bad thing that "Peter" is doing something ... at least someone is, and it might be the catalyst for something bigger (and better, frankly).

 

I don't feel comfortable doing nothing...

[Drylaw Hearts]

DH you are a super contributor to the debate and a right good guy as i have always said but.... you voted yes in the poll about who would attend the protest!!!

 

 

Yes I did.

 

It was reflex answer but after a little thought I changed my mind and saw sense.

[HelloSunshine]

What age are Hicks & Gillet? or Glaser? ..... the point is if UBIG / Romanov jnr want to recoup the lions share of their money they have to restore our finances which means making the football club profitable ...... with or without Vlad this is what any owner is going to have to do unless they have oodles of money to throw at HMFC ...... also administration wouldn't necessarily help at that doesn't make the debts disappear and the administrator is legally obliged to act in the creditors best interests not the football clubs. Hearts have overspent continuously for almost 15 years, that has to stop and be reversed however long it takes.

 

The key difference with our owner though, is that another of his companies benefits from the interest due on the HMFC debt. Therefore if Hearts are more in debt, UBIG makes more in interest.

I'm not saying that Vlad is deliberately out to increase the debt - he obviously wants to reduce it hence the invisible transfer pot, but he doesn't have the same agenda as Hicks or Gillet who are purely trying to generate a profit from a football club. Our Vlad is out to make money, regardless of which of his businesses delivers.

[Victorian]

His dancing must keep him pretty fit.

and then there's all the mystical new age stuff like meditation and dangling crystals about and eating volcanic dust that he's been credited with.

 

i think he'll probably become the first ever cryogenically revived person. he'll come back in 200 years and buy us again when we're playing hibs on the moon... who still haven't won the SC.

[berrasbraw]

I don't think it's a bad thing that "Peter" is doing something ... at least someone is, and it might be the catalyst for something bigger (and better, frankly).

 

I don't feel comfortable doing nothing...

Agreed mate:2thumbsup:

[portobellojambo1]

Shaun the logical conclusion is that Romanov / UBIG have to make Hearts more profitable and eventually not too expensive or unviable otherwise they will never be able to recoup the monies they've spent ...... that means though players like Craig & Jason Thomson, David Templeton not Rudi Skacel or Takis Fyssas or Christos Karipidis.

 

My thoughts entirely. I'm in full accordance with Therapist on the financial realities, incidentally - but as I pointed out last week, it seems for all the world that the logical conclusion of his argument is given we're technically insolvent and too expensive and unprofitable for anyone to buy, it's only a matter of time before the club dies: until Romanov either gets too old or can no longer afford to prop us up.

 

And that's a seriously dispiriting conclusion. No wonder people are trying to do something, however hopeless the situation appears.

 

 

I don't think there is any simple conclusion to be drawn CB. What you have described would be better expressed as a scenario, as is the scenario Therapist lays out.

 

In his, Romanov passes away, and as a result the club ceases to exist effectively, which is a believable outcome. The scenario which you put forward is that the outlays are reduced to such an extent that the business starts to become profitable, allowing us to trade our way out of the present situation.

 

In Therapist's scenario there is a certain amount of guarantee, in that Romanov is going to die one day, and that it'll then be a case of what happens next.

 

In the scenario you present there are no guarantees that we will ever get to a stage where we are trading profitably, and if we did I would reckon we are probably looking at a period of 20/30 years, just to get to a break even stage.

 

Along with the scenarios there is also a hope, as expressed by Victorian, and that hope is that the other shareholders at UKIO, UBIG or both, can put some sort of pressure on Romanov to break his ties with Hearts (with the additional hope being that at the point of sell on UBIG will write off part of the debt, and any new owners will find a guarantor for the remaining debt).

 

Which route we eventually take is not going to be determined by a limited number of people protesting outside Tynecastle, we find ourselves in a situation we have no control over. It is all about decisions being taken by others, and Romanov will not base his decisions on the thoughts of a few Hearts fans.

 

And as for hoping Romanov will sit down and discuss aspects of the club, it is a case of been both tried and done, without success. If another group of supporters indicate to him yet again they aren't happy with the way he is running things I don't think that will make him change course (may be wrong but simply cannot see it).

[gorgie_rebel]

Where's Peter and his list of demands gone???

[Victorian]

Yes I did.

 

It was reflex answer but after a little thought I changed my mind and saw sense.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

The points of the players he's selling,the players that were there since they were youngsters and the guff he's replacing them with.I dont want players on huge wages,but other managers/owners seem to find gems while we are left with keek,on huge wages.I know Vlad wont leave but we have never protested before so we wont know what he'll do until the protest happens.Something has to give.It's sickening to see our neighbours over the road doing so well on a tiny wage bill with hardly any debt.And he was the man that wasted millions bringing in crappy players,puting them on huge wages thinking he would sell them on for a fortune when good Scottish/British players were right under his nose that maybe would have brought him in good money.But he doesn't trust anyone Scottish as he has them working for the OF.He would rather pay Nade and Kingston ?16 A WEEK.

 

So, if I can make you out, which isn't easy, you want new players.

 

Fine. We need to get rid of the old ones first and the earliest we can do that is January. I'm not sure exactly how Romanov will get rid of them quicker than that but there you go. Enjoy your rant!

[Rods]

I think a lot more will be revealed come feb when this UBIG moneys owed situation comes to ahead.

 

In the meantime a small protest is going to be irrelevent.

[berrasbraw]

So, if I can make you out, which isn't easy, you want new players.

 

Fine. We need to get rid of the old ones first and the earliest we can do that is January. I'm not sure exactly how Romanov will get rid of them quicker than that but there you go. Enjoy your rant!

I dont want new players,but if he is getting rid of our GOOD ones,well replace them with at very least DECENT ones.Not like the 70 ****ty ones that have already passed through the gates.Rant as you put it over.

Now hardman jog on and find a man to argue with.Come back in January when Driver and Wallace go and tell me how wonderfull the new signings are.

Not that you'll know right enough watching you're 6 games a season on tv.