Israel and Palestine

[Felix Lighter]

12 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

Biden confirming they have reason to believe there are American hostages, and when you consider I think there are currently 10 confirmed UK dead including one Scottish man it might be likely there are also UK hostages. Made me wonder if that fact might encourage either or both nations to launch special ops attacks in an attempt to recover hostages. Sort of raid on Entebbe like scenario.

 

Joe Biden couldn't confirm what day of the week it is. FFS.

[doctor jambo]

2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Like the apocalypse in Gaza just now. 
What a world. 
(Taking no sides here) 

Yay nationalism 

Yay religion

Hooray for raging hypocrisy on all sides!

Its only dead kids after all, thousands of them.

Utter 🛎️ ends on show all over the place at the moment cheering terrorists killing teenagers out enjoying themselves .

They aren’t Jews or Palestinians , they are feckin children .

And you did it for one reason - because you are *****.

[SectionDJambo]

Whatever any of us may think about the way the Israelis have treated the Palestinian people over the years, what Hamas has done here will cause more pain and misery to those poor people who have the misfortune to live in Gaza. Hamas has given no thought whatsoever to the welfare of the people who they claim to represent. They don’t care. They’re just a bunch of gangsters using religion as an excuse to murder innocent people and cause the deaths of many more.

 

[jack D and coke]

8 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Yay nationalism 

Yay religion

Hooray for raging hypocrisy on all sides!

Its only dead kids after all, thousands of them.

Utter 🛎️ ends on show all over the place at the moment cheering terrorists killing teenagers out enjoying themselves .

They aren’t Jews or Palestinians , they are feckin children .

And you did it for one reason - because you are *****.

I’m finding it tough to read anyone claiming some sort of justification from either side.

This is not nationalism either it’s purely religious intolerance and hatred. 
All of them ****ing monsters man. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

15 minutes ago, Felix Lighter said:

 

Joe Biden couldn't confirm what day of the week it is. FFS.

Correct ! 

[doctor jambo]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

I’m finding it tough to read anyone claiming some sort of justification from either side.

This is not nationalism either it’s purely religious intolerance and hatred. 
All of them ****ing monsters man. 

Working on the basis that religion is all made up , and even if it was real one or both sides neither would condone this type of bollocks,

all that is left is nationalism.

strip the lies and fairy tales out it and that’s all you have left.

 

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Working on the basis that religion is all made up , and even if it was real one or both sides neither would condone this type of bollocks,

all that is left is nationalism.

strip the lies and fairy tales out it and that’s all you have left.

 

Im not accepting nationalism here and honestly man I can’t argue about this it’s too much. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

And it’s kicking off big time in the melting pot of our of old London Town 

 

 

https://x.com/archrose90/status/1711483719410758140?s=46&t=Uyg6zS_aUfEwlXY6vOoxzQ

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Im not accepting nationalism here and honestly man I can’t argue about this it’s too much. 

It is nationalism as it’s about borders and daft wee lines on a map with the added bonus of religion thrown in . 

[jack D and coke]

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

It is nationalism as it’s about borders and daft wee lines on a map with the added bonus of religion thrown in . 

Aw cmon James. It’s religion.
Pure and simple. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

Aw cmon James. It’s religion.
Pure and simple. 

Based on borders . It’s a territorial dispute with religion thrown in to legitimise their claims to own the land . 

[jack D and coke]

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

Based on borders . It’s a territorial dispute with religion thrown in to legitimise their claims to own the land . 

So you reckon it’s just cos they’re Israelis and Palestinians?? But in the madness of why they got this land it’s really isn’t nationalism. 
It would’ve been even crazier if they’d gave them them Uganda which was also on the cards. 
Not nationalism for me. 
It’s the promised land.
Mental to think they didn’t see the problems this would cause. 

[doctor jambo]

9 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

And it’s kicking off big time in the melting pot of our of old London Town 

 

 

https://x.com/archrose90/status/1711483719410758140?s=46&t=Uyg6zS_aUfEwlXY6vOoxzQ

 

 

Don’t deploy the army to the station , whilst they are all there send men to their houses to kill their families , it’s what Maggie Chapman would want

[Dagger Is Back]

4 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I can't get the thought of those youngsters at a music festival getting massacred out of my head 

Having kids that age who are into their concerts and festivals hits home

You're not alone. There's absolutely no justification for the calculated slaughter of innocents. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, doctor jambo said:

Don’t deploy the army to the station , whilst they are all there send men to their houses to kill their families , it’s what Maggie Chapman would want

Yep she’s been making a James h of herself on twitter all day ,  nowt new there . 

[Cade]

You cannot separate state and religion when it comes to this.

Israel is Judaism and Judaism is Israel.

Religion and state are the same thing.

Which is why criticism of the Israeli government is considered "antisemitic" under the IHRA definition (which is ludicrous, but there we are)

All of the illegal settlements were founded by religious hardliners.

They truly believe that they are God's Chosen People and that international law doesn't apply to them as they're special.

[SwindonJambo]

16 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

So you reckon it’s just cos they’re Israelis and Palestinians?? But in the madness of why they got this land it’s really isn’t nationalism. 
It would’ve been even crazier if they’d gave them them Uganda which was also on the cards. 
Not nationalism for me. 
It’s the promised land.
Mental to think they didn’t see the problems this would cause. 

 

Yep, this and many other religious conflicts around the World have helped to make me profoundly atheist. No sky fairies for me please. Religion is a totally man made mindset and religious conflict has shortened more innocent lives than pretty much everything else. 

 

The creation of the modern state of Israel must be one of the most ill advised pieces of foreign policy ever. Just breathtakingly naive and not though through.  But that all said, nothing but nothing can justify the barbaric actions of the last few days.

[Sleepy head]

1 hour ago, Felix Lighter said:

 

Joe Biden couldn't confirm what day of the week it is. FFS.

🤣

[Ked]

I am in no way condoning Israels dealing with Palestinians.

But Jews are not popular and haven't been for a while.

A long long while.

That's bound to colour your approach to things.

I remember when I was young hearing my Grandad talk with his pal and his pal saying the Jews made it easy for the Nazis.

That's resonant for Jews of a certain age .

And no doubt passed on .

[Ked]

52 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

And it’s kicking off big time in the melting pot of our of old London Town 

 

 

https://x.com/archrose90/status/1711483719410758140?s=46&t=Uyg6zS_aUfEwlXY6vOoxzQ

 

 

Who on earth's Chris Rose?

Talks some shite if he's wanting the army deployed for that.

 

[Diadora Van Basten]

I agree with pretty much every word Owen says here. I would highly recommend watching it in full as I think it is a more balanced opinion than is being shown on the BBC.

[Ked]

1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

And it’s kicking off big time in the melting pot of our of old London Town 

 

 

https://x.com/archrose90/status/1711483719410758140?s=46&t=Uyg6zS_aUfEwlXY6vOoxzQ

 

 

Looked at other stuff related .

Some right horrible people out there.

Jews are openly hated.

[JyTees]

21 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

I agree with pretty much every word Owen says here. I would highly recommend watching it in full as I think it is a more balanced opinion than is being shown on the BBC.

 

I would've staked a large amount of cash that there was no way you could get any lower and make a bigger James Hunt of yourself on this thread...and then you go and throw Owen Jones into the fray. 

 

😂😂😂😂😂

 

You shouldn't be allowed near a keyboard.

[JFK-1]

20 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

I agree with pretty much every word Owen says here. I would highly recommend watching it in full as I think it is a more balanced opinion than is being shown on the BBC.

 

So a guy who takes just one position is "a more balanced opinion" than say the BBC or presumably all the news channels reporting this? Who you're also presumably claiming have just one perspective? Their one perspective is not balanced his is?

Incidentally he goes on about a 16 year blockade since Hamas took power, and you think that's irrational? OTT?

 

Trying to do anything you can to stop this group who have a charter saying they wont stop till they kill you and who absolutely will unless you stop them is beyond reproach?

Who else is blockading them? You don't know so I will give you an answer, Egypt is, blockading in the same manner Israel does. For the same reasons, because allowing Hamas to operate would be catastrophic.

They would fire thousands of rockets all the time if they could get the materials in. So given that what's your suggestion? National suicide?   

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

1 hour ago, Ked said:

I am in no way condoning Israels dealing with Palestinians.

But Jews are not popular and haven't been for a while.

A long long while.

That's bound to colour your approach to things.

I remember when I was young hearing my Grandad talk with his pal and his pal saying the Jews made it easy for the Nazis.

That's resonant for Jews of a certain age .

And no doubt passed on .

WT actual F.

Jews are not popular? Popular to who?  I’ve been married to the most amazing Jewish woman for over 33 years and have two beautiful Jewish daughters. All three of them are very “popular” and not with just other Jews. I can’t believe any sane, person would write that, and certainly not on this particular thread.
Not popular.  What an absolutely dumb, asinine thing to post. Your Grandads friend was a ****ing ignorant moron. He may have rubbed off on you a bit.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by HeartsandonlyHearts

[Tazio]

11 minutes ago, HeartsandonlyHearts said:

WT actual F.

Jews are not popular? Popular to who?  I’ve been married to the most amazing Jewish woman for over 33 years and have two beautiful Jewish daughters. All three of them are very “popular” and not with just other Jews. I can’t believe any sane, person would write that, and certainly not on this particular thread.
Not popular.  What an absolutely dumb, asinine thing to post. Your Grandads friend was a ****ing ignorant moron. He may have rubbed off on you a bit.

 

 

I think Ked has just worded his post incredibly badly in terms of what he’s trying to say. I read it as going back through history there has been a bias against Jewish people for no good reason that has been perpetuated by certain groups. The grandfather anecdote was just in there to demonstrate that many people have been guilty of ignorance based on lazy preconceptions. I don’t think for a moment he was being anti semitic, just guilty of not putting his idea across in a concise way. 

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

22 minutes ago, Tazio said:

I think Ked has just worded his post incredibly badly in terms of what he’s trying to say. I read it as going back through history there has been a bias against Jewish people for no good reason that has been perpetuated by certain groups. The grandfather anecdote was just in there to demonstrate that many people have been guilty of ignorance based on lazy preconceptions. I don’t think for a moment he was being anti semitic, just guilty of not putting his idea across in a concise way. 

If true then I would apologize immediately and ask for forgiveness. I hope you’re right and that I read it wrong.  I’ve had so many dumb things come up over the years. Mostly at school with my daughters. 
The ignorance is taught at home.

”Throw a penny at the Jew” meant another visit to the middle school principal. Too many to mention.

I have a short fuse sometimes.

 

[JyTees]

34 minutes ago, Tazio said:

I think Ked has just worded his post incredibly badly in terms of what he’s trying to say. I read it as going back through history there has been a bias against Jewish people for no good reason that has been perpetuated by certain groups. The grandfather anecdote was just in there to demonstrate that many people have been guilty of ignorance based on lazy preconceptions. I don’t think for a moment he was being anti semitic, just guilty of not putting his idea across in a concise way. 

 

You really shouldn't be trying to explain away such an horrific view point. Whether you think he's worded it badly or not, you shouldn't be excusing such ignorance. Surely it's for Ked to respond to, not you.

 

"The Jews made it easy for the Nazis". @HeartsandonlyHearts, you have absolutely nothing to be apologising for and certainly not asking for forgiveness!

[hearts151]

6 minutes ago, JyTees said:

 

You really shouldn't be trying to explain away such an horrific view point. Whether you think he's worded it badly or not, you shouldn't be excusing such ignorance. Surely it's for Ked to respond to, not you.

 

"The Jews made it easy for the Nazis". @HeartsandonlyHearts, you have absolutely nothing to be apologising for and certainly not asking for forgiveness!

He's basically saying Israel is bring so hardline because of the persecution they've had over the years and also people's opinion of them and whether they did enough (peoples racist opinions/views ... not factually) therefore its likely made them be so Gung Ho and hardline with their responses now.

[JFK-1]

While we have talk of how this can happen with no intelligence services piking up on it reminded me of a scene from the 2008 Russel Crowe and Leo DiCaprio film 'Body of Lies' which is a great film BTW.

 

Crowe plays a high ranking CIA officer guy who controls assets in the field, DiCaprio is an asset in the field. In this scene Crowe is explaining to a bunch of politicians how these terrorists can hide from us.

 

 

[JFK-1]

Decent breakdown including a description of a theory that there's an Iranian hand in it. I'm talking about this rape/murder/kidnap rampage not historical Iranian support of Hams for many years.

 

It's being suggested here that they want to put a spoke in any potential Israeli/Saudi normalisation of relations which this report says would remove the religious element from the entire mess.

And since the religious element is all it's ever been about from the Islamic perspective, the Hamas perspective, and the Iranian perspective then that's definitely unfavorable for Iran. Not evidence they were in on this but at least suggestive of potential motive right at this very time Israel/Saudi is coming closer.

 

 

[John Findlay]

6 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Aw cmon James. It’s religion.
Pure and simple. 

It's neither. It's hatred from both sides.

Jew(regardless of what religion they are), and Arab(regardless of what religion they are). They both just hate each other.

[New Town Loafer]

7 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

And it’s kicking off big time in the melting pot of our of old London Town 

 

 

https://x.com/archrose90/status/1711483719410758140?s=46&t=Uyg6zS_aUfEwlXY6vOoxzQ

 

 

But…diversity is our strength! 

[stevie]

6 hours ago, Ked said:

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by stevie
Deleted in the hope that Ked can qualify his comments.

[doctor jambo]

6 hours ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

I agree with pretty much every word Owen says here. I would highly recommend watching it in full as I think it is a more balanced opinion than is being shown on the BBC.

First up

1 - if he was in Gaza , he would be thrown off a roof for being gay, Hamas hates the gays and is diametrically opposed to them , as well as Jews.

2- for someone unwilling to defend women, to defend Islamist extremists shows the fibre of his fabric.

 

[New Town Loafer]

1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

1 - if he was in Gaza , he would be thrown off a roof for being gay, Hamas hates the gays and is diametrically opposed to them , as well as Jews.

2- for someone unwilling to defend women, to defend Islamist extremists shows the fibre of his fabric.

 

1) An all-expenses paid trip for Owen wouldn’t be the worst thing 👀 

 

2) Good point.

[il Duce McTarkin]

6 hours ago, Tazio said:

I think Ked has just worded his post incredibly badly in terms of what he’s trying to say. I read it as going back through history there has been a bias against Jewish people for no good reason that has been perpetuated by certain groups. The grandfather anecdote was just in there to demonstrate that many people have been guilty of ignorance based on lazy preconceptions. I don’t think for a moment he was being anti semitic, just guilty of not putting his idea across in a concise way. 

 

That's how I read it too, Tazio. 

[Sooperstar]

1 hour ago, John Findlay said:

It's neither. It's hatred from both sides.

Jew(regardless of what religion they are), and Arab(regardless of what religion they are). They both just hate each other.

It's the Hindu Jews you have to watch out for. 

[Taffin]

Don't see the issue with Ked's post, he's not expressing his viewpoint but sharing what's been a pervasive and entrenched view by too many throughout history.

 

I'm fairly certain the example of his grandfather's pal isn't his view and is sharing it for context. It will apply to some now as well, Hamas will get sympathy from many because of the actions of Israel.

 

Edit: I'm not even sure 'popular' is as clumsy as it's being portrayed. Of the major religions I'm pretty sure Judaism must have one, if not the, lowest following.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Taffin

[Homme]

I'm so not qualified to to talk on this thread like I could say Ukraine and Russia so not when going to attempt an opinion. Just don't have a clue with regards to the history and who's right / wrong etc.

 

It's just horrible to see innocents on both sides caught up in it all. So many needless lives lost. 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

32 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

It's the Hindu Jews you have to watch out for. 

Them, and the Catholic Muslims. 😂

[doctor jambo]

6 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Them, and the Catholic Muslims. 😂

Just because our nationalist first minister is a  Muslim Celtic fan , married to someone of Palestinian heritage does not mean we can make assumptions.

That extrapolation would be unfair, as he  has clearly stated his opposition to celtic green brigade support of religious based terrorist groups.

 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

1 minute ago, doctor jambo said:

Just because our nationalist first minister is a  Muslim Celtic fan , married to someone of Palestinian heritage does not mean we can make assumptions.

That extrapolation would be unfair, as he  has clearly stated his opposition to celtic green brigade support of religious based terrorist groups.

 

The old weegie taxi driver joke, are you a Muslim Tim or a Muslim proddy?

 

Re Humza, I what the US would do if, say, Kamala Harris' in laws were about to get murdered by a terrorist state?

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

First up

1 - if he was in Gaza , he would be thrown off a roof for being gay, Hamas hates the gays and is diametrically opposed to them , as well as Jews.

2- for someone unwilling to defend women, to defend Islamist extremists shows the fibre of his fabric.

 

He’s an odious man and as you say would be thrown off the nearest roof if he went over there . 

[doctor jambo]

1 minute ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

The old weegie taxi driver joke, are you a Muslim Tim or a Muslim proddy?

 

Re Humza, I what the US would do if, say, Kamala Harris' in laws were about to get murdered by a terrorist state?

 

The us would do what they always do, bomb the brown peoples schools and hospitals .

 

[XB52]

4 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

And since the religious element is all it's ever been about from the Islamic perspective, the Hamas perspective, and the Iranian perspective then that's definitely unfavorable for Iran.

 

 

Bloody hell, I keep saying I'm out of this shit show of a thread and then I see lunacy like this. The state of Israel only exists because of religion. The zionists believe in a greater Israel, given to them by God, and they have spent the last 75 years slowly creating their dream, and to hell with the people who live/lived there.

Again, this in no way condones the terrorist actions of the last few days.

[doctor jambo]

3 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Bloody hell, I keep saying I'm out of this shit show of a thread and then I see lunacy like this. The state of Israel only exists because of religion. The zionists believe in a greater Israel, given to them by God, and they have spent the last 75 years slowly creating their dream, and to hell with the people who live/lived there.

Again, this in no way condones the terrorist actions of the last few days.

Are the non Jews who live in Israel descriminated against?

I genuinely don’t know, but I doubt it.

israel has a large non Jew population who presumably vote etc and have jobs and freedoms they don’t have were they to relocate to any abutting nation.

[Boab]

3 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Bloody hell, I keep saying I'm out of this shit show of a thread and then I see lunacy like this. The state of Israel only exists because of religion. The zionists believe in a greater Israel, given to them by God, and they have spent the last 75 years slowly creating their dream, and to hell with the people who live/lived there.

Again, this in no way condones the terrorist actions of the last few days.

Yip. It’s pretty mental all round.

If King Charles said he was king because he pulled a sword out of a rock, he’d be put in a dark, locked, room.

 

The scenes are horrific. Worrying this time as Biden doesn’t know what day of the week it is. That’s scary, and it needs real heavyweights to stop this.

[John Findlay]

1 hour ago, Sooperstar said:

It's the Hindu Jews you have to watch out for. 

Yes and the Buddhist Palestinians.

[Victorian]

Between Israelis,  Palestinians and Hamas,  the total of killed is already in the region of 4,000.  Quite staggering.