Israel and Palestine

[heartgarfunkel]

I'm a massive Channel 4 News fan and a bit of a bleeding heart liberal/lefty but I'm struggling to get the subjective use of 'captive' instead of 'kidnapped hostage', 'militant' instead of 'terrorist', and Israeli military 'offensive' instead of 'response'.  I'm a historian and if this was a documentary I could get the subjective use of language, but this is the news. WTF? Objectivity please.

Edited October 9, 2023 by heartgarfunkel

[Victorian]

12 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I can't get the thought of those youngsters at a music festival getting massacred out of my head 

Having kids that age who are into their concerts and festivals hits home

 

Pure evil,  including the kidnappings as well.  But surely the last time that people will be left virtually unprotected and prone to attack so close to the Gazan boundary.  That boundary is no better than a chain link fence.  That'll change.  

[ArcticJambo]

1 minute ago, heartgarfunkel said:

I'm a massive Channel 4 News fan and a bit of a bleeding heart liberal/lefty but I'm struggling to get the objective use of 'captive' instead of 'kidnapped hostage', 'militant' instead of 'terrorist', and Israeli military 'offensive' instead of 'response'.  I'm a historian and if this was a documentary I could get the subjective use of language, but this is the news. WTF?

Good post. It's everywhere in media right across all subjects, the use of language that was never used in our day. Whether to dampen or heighten the effect, to which ever leaning the oganisation sways. The use of routine neutral news reporting language/terminology seems dead now!

[heartgarfunkel]

3 minutes ago, ArcticJambo said:

Good post. It's everywhere in media right across all subjects, the use of language that was never used in our day. Whether to dampen or heighten the effect, to which ever leaning the oganisation sways. The use of routine neutral news reporting language/terminology seems dead now!

It does seem like a bygone age and it's so dangerous when it comes from the mainstream media when all the bampots are 'influencing' via the social media channels.

[JFK-1]

8 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

Not wanting to get involved, but doing it anyway, can I add my name to the folk advising @JFK-1 to calm down a bit. Usually a decent poster, he's been over-the-top with the virulence of his attacks on this thread, imo.

 

No disrespect to you, but don't advise me and don't talk about me attacking anyone when what I do is respond to people quoting me, like I just did to you.

 

Show me what you're talking about, because I don't think you know. What you need to do there is you provide what I say you think is OTT and what i'm responding to. Can you do that?

 

If you can't please don't bother quoting me again.

[JFK-1]

4 hours ago, HeartsandonlyHearts said:

They know it will. 99.9% of Palestinians in Gaza are not backers of terror.

 

Where did you get this number? Do you know how Hamas took power in Gaza? Well they took power after an election in which they gathered the most votes. You think that was 00.01% of Palestinians who elected them?

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, Shanks said:

The reporting from the BBC on all this is so biased.  Horrible what is happening. 

It’s nauseating . 

[hughesie27]

Just seen a lot of heavy missile fire on a YouTube feed into Gaza. Seemed to be targeting a specific area as there were 4 or 5 consecutive explosions within 5 minutes.

[jack D and coke]

Like the apocalypse in Gaza just now. 
What a world. 
(Taking no sides here) 

[il Duce McTarkin]

36 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

No disrespect to you, but don't advise me and don't talk about me attacking anyone when what I do is respond to people quoting me, like I just did to you.

 

Show me what you're talking about, because I don't think you know. What you need to do there is you provide what I say you think is OTT and what i'm responding to. Can you do that?

 

If you can't please don't bother quoting me again.

 

[hughesie27]

Can't help but think that if Sunak's inlaws were stuck in Gaza that itnwoukd be headline news and probably result in an international effort to ensure they could get out.

 

Not even mentioned on Sky News once.

[ArcticJambo]

28 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Just seen a lot of heavy missile fire on a YouTube feed into Gaza. Seemed to be targeting a specific area as there were 4 or 5 consecutive explosions within 5 minutes.

Quite possibly something to do with what this tweet outlines, which I think someone posted earlier.

 

https://twitter.com/PStyle0ne1/status/1711140411614396638?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1711140411614396638|twgr^5186951d833e05b87ce7569d6fa56f5531e55a03|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hmfckickback.co.uk%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FPStyle0ne1%2Fstatus%2F1711140411614396638%3Ft%3DWu3yFlqnU1-md8hH6CTIsg26s%3D19

[henrysmithsgloves]

My heart truly bleeds for the innocents on both sides 🥺

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

1 hour ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Where did you get this number? Do you know how Hamas took power in Gaza? Well they took power after an election in which they gathered the most votes. You think that was 00.01% of Palestinians who elected them?

I’m sure it was a fair election.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

I love it when other countries and the UN call for “immediate de-escalation”.

 

As if that’s ever going to happen because someone at the UN says

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

4 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

did you see the Russian foreign minister on Sky tv talking about cessation of hostilities as innocent people were being killed 🤬🤬🤬🤷‍♂️the neck of the man.

“There are no American or other foreign troops in Iraq”

Most politicians have no shame.

[SectionDJambo]

1 hour ago, Gundermann said:

 

A very pertinent fact is that Jews, Muslims and Christians - all native to the area - co-existed until fairly recently The current 'troubles' started when Zionists started 'reclaiming their land' through their own acts of terrorism, including against the British state.

 

👍

I knew a guy, many years ago, who had served with the British Army in Palestine. He didn’t have many good things to say about the Jewish side. Some very bad actions perpetrated against British personnel. 

[JFK-1]

8 minutes ago, HeartsandonlyHearts said:

I’m sure it was a fair election.

 

I don't know what you're implying, did you know there had been an election and Hamas were elected? Do you know when the election was? I do and I didn't need to look it up, I have known for decades.

[XB52]

44 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

It's quite sad to see a poster I've liked, primarily on the Trump thread, completely losing it. I can only presume he's Jewish and is blindly lashing out. Hopefully he'll calm down soon.

[JFK-1]

30 minutes ago, ArcticJambo said:

Quite possibly something to do with what this tweet outlines, which I think someone posted earlier.

 

https://twitter.com/PStyle0ne1/status/1711140411614396638?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1711140411614396638|twgr^5186951d833e05b87ce7569d6fa56f5531e55a03|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hmfckickback.co.uk%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FPStyle0ne1%2Fstatus%2F1711140411614396638%3Ft%3DWu3yFlqnU1-md8hH6CTIsg26s%3D19

 

That shows Israel being empathetic/humanitarian even as their own people have been raped and murdered and is antithetical to a narrative some seem to have conjured up around here, Israel bad, anybody attacking them good. And they probably don't know a thing about this situation beyond a few catchphrases.

 

The reason I know they don't is I have been looking into the history of this thing for decades, while they say all the things people who don't know a thing about it beyond a few catchphrases say. They actually make stuff up out of thin air in an attempt to support the narrative. And the stuff they make up is also surprisingly common.

Look at this shit, look at this bizarre whining about how bias western news is, the news is focused on the primitive brutal savagery of Hamas as this massacre happens, while these whiners don't like that? WTF else should the news be talking about as this happens?

Do they even know what Hamas is? Do they even know Hamas has a charter which states they will not stop till not just every last Israeli is dead but every last Jews globally, they're like the Nazis FFS and they're the ones these people aren't bothered about to make stuff up about the people who are trying to tell civilians to move out of a soon to be danger zone?

 

WTF is ANYBODY supposed to do with an entity like that? So Is it just me or is that weird?

What is it these whiners want? Israel to just suicide like Hamas wants them to? And in fact to give them some due they probably don't even know all this shit. All they know is the title, Israel bad anybody else good, don't ask why because we don't know why. And incidentally unlike them I don't even actually take a side in this, simply oppose Hamas.

 

I wont make anything up, why would I? I'm just a hard facts kind of guy, and I really don't get on any deep level why they would make shit up about this, off the cuff as they go. A fact disproving the narrative may surface, it will be argued without thought. In fact we just saw an example.

 

I point out Hamas were actually elected, somebody decides okay i will pull a Trump and suggest it was a rigged election while probably not even knowing beforehand there had ever been an election which was internationally monitored. Just out of thin air. 

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

21 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I don't know what you're implying, did you know there had been an election and Hamas were elected? Do you know when the election was? I do and I didn't need to look it up, I have known for decades.

It was 2007 I believe. So u couldn’t have known about it for decade(s)

[JFK-1]

Just now, HeartsandonlyHearts said:

It was 2007 I believe. So u couldn’t have known about it for decade(s)

 

So you looked it up, good. My actual meaning in decades was that I have been researching the whole situation for decades, since 1998 to be precise. But if you want to try to pick on that as some sort of point that negates in any way anything I say on the topic, be my guest.

[redjambo]

1 hour ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

 

Aye, quite.

[JudyJudyJudy]

15 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

That shows Israel being empathetic/humanitarian even as their own people have been raped and murdered and is antithetical to a narrative some seem to have conjured up around here, Israel bad, anybody attacking them good. And they probably don't know a thing about this situation beyond a few catchphrases.

 

The reason I know they don't is I have been looking into the history of this thing for decades, while they say all the things people who don't know a thing about it beyond a few catchphrases say. They actually make stuff up out of thin air in an attempt to support the narrative. And the stuff they make up is also surprisingly common.

Look at this shit, look at this bizarre whining about how bias western news is, the news is focused on the primitive brutal savagery of Hamas as this massacre happens, while these whiners don't like that? WTF else should the news be talking about as this happens?

Do they even know what Hamas is? Do they even know Hamas has a charter which states they will not stop till not just every last Israeli is dead but every last Jews globally, they're like the Nazis FFS and they're the ones these people aren't bothered about to make stuff up about the people who are trying to tell civilians to move out of a soon to be danger zone?

 

WTF is ANYBODY supposed to do with an entity like that? So Is it just me or is that weird?

What is it these whiners want? Israel to just suicide like Hamas wants them to? And in fact to give them some due they probably don't even know all this shit. All they know is the title, Israel bad anybody else good, don't ask why because we don't know why. And incidentally unlike them I don't even actually take a side in this, simply oppose Hamas.

 

I wont make anything up, why would I? I'm just a hard facts kind of guy, and I really don't get on any deep level why they would make shit up about this, off the cuff as they go. A fact disproving the narrative may surface, it will be argued without thought. In fact we just saw an example.

 

I point out Hamas were actually elected, somebody decides okay i will pull a Trump and suggest it was a rigged election while probably not even knowing beforehand there had ever been an election which was internationally monitored. Just out of thin air. 

Maybe some critics of Israel may be less critical if Israel didn’t  Just indiscriminately attack / bomb areas In state of Palestine without any clear strategic military reason but just out of punitive revenge.  ? I dread to think of the atrocities , under the guise of this which will happen in this next few weeks / months .

[jack D and coke]

Videos of parents carrying their dead kids all over twitter…😢

I’ve seen a hundred of these images over the years I’m not sure why it’s hitting me harder now. 
What a tragedy this is.
 

[heatonjambo]

6 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Videos of parents carrying their dead kids all over twitter…😢

I’ve seen a hundred of these images over the years I’m not sure why it’s hitting me harder now. 
What a tragedy this is.
 

Because it is so unjust and has been for decades

 

anyone with a conscience can’t fail to be effected

[il Duce McTarkin]

39 minutes ago, XB52 said:

It's quite sad to see a poster I've liked, primarily on the Trump thread, completely losing it. I can only presume he's Jewish and is blindly lashing out. Hopefully he'll calm down soon.

 

I think it's hilarious. He's an arrogant so-and-so that regularly goes off on one and talks down to anyone who disagrees with him. I blame the drugs. He'll end up like poor wee Zammo, lying pan-bread in his own pish in the middle trap of some public bog or other. He is quite good in the Trump thread, mind. Mainly because his ravings are so over-the-top, and pretty much everyone sort of agrees with his general assessment of the orange couponed goon.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by il Duce McTarkin

[JFK-1]

9 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Maybe some critics of Israel may be less critical if Israel didn’t  Just indiscriminately attack / bomb areas In state of Palestine without any clear strategic military reason but just out of punitive revenge.  ? I dread to think of the atrocities , under the guise of this which will happen in this next few weeks / months .

 

That's good, you're making an argument while some just talk and say nothing at all. But first of all look at what you just did, you' still don't have a single thing to say about what this is, it's an atrocity beyond words in comparison to anything Israel has done. And you don't appear to get the horror of it. Still just want to talk about I don't know some other time some other incident not the right now.

As for what you're saying Israel may have done some other time some other place all you're doing is just saying that, probably with no specific knowledge of any such incident beyond anecdotal. You could probably google and find something but it's highly unlikely it will suit your bad Israeli narrative, honestly.

Turn this around for a moment, what if it were Israel on this rampage and don't say they have ever done anything like this, they haven't. What if it were them doing that right now, would you want to talk about the past, how we got here? Or would you be screaming the walls down at the utter animalistic mindless barbarity of this rape/murder/kidnap rampage.

 

 

[Felix Lighter]

38 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

That shows Israel being empathetic/humanitarian even as their own people have been raped and murdered and is antithetical to a narrative some seem to have conjured up around here, Israel bad, anybody attacking them good. And they probably don't know a thing about this situation beyond a few catchphrases.

 

The reason I know they don't is I have been looking into the history of this thing for decades, while they say all the things people who don't know a thing about it beyond a few catchphrases say. They actually make stuff up out of thin air in an attempt to support the narrative. And the stuff they make up is also surprisingly common.

Look at this shit, look at this bizarre whining about how bias western news is, the news is focused on the primitive brutal savagery of Hamas as this massacre happens, while these whiners don't like that? WTF else should the news be talking about as this happens?

Do they even know what Hamas is? Do they even know Hamas has a charter which states they will not stop till not just every last Israeli is dead but every last Jews globally, they're like the Nazis FFS and they're the ones these people aren't bothered about to make stuff up about the people who are trying to tell civilians to move out of a soon to be danger zone?

 

WTF is ANYBODY supposed to do with an entity like that? So Is it just me or is that weird?

What is it these whiners want? Israel to just suicide like Hamas wants them to? And in fact to give them some due they probably don't even know all this shit. All they know is the title, Israel bad anybody else good, don't ask why because we don't know why. And incidentally unlike them I don't even actually take a side in this, simply oppose Hamas.

 

I wont make anything up, why would I? I'm just a hard facts kind of guy, and I really don't get on any deep level why they would make shit up about this, off the cuff as they go. A fact disproving the narrative may surface, it will be argued without thought. In fact we just saw an example.

 

I point out Hamas were actually elected, somebody decides okay i will pull a Trump and suggest it was a rigged election while probably not even knowing beforehand there had ever been an election which was internationally monitored. Just out of thin air. 

 

I have to admit I'm mostly ignorant on the subject, so I'll bow to your greater knowledge. I watched a documentary recently which stated that the Israelis facilitated and funded the creation of Hamas as a divide and conquer tactic against the secular PLO. Is that correct?

Edited October 9, 2023 by Felix Lighter

[heatonjambo]

37 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

That shows Israel being empathetic/humanitarian even as their own people have been raped and murdered and is antithetical to a narrative some seem to have conjured up around here, Israel bad, anybody attacking them good. And they probably don't know a thing about this situation beyond a few catchphrases.

 

The reason I know they don't is I have been looking into the history of this thing for decades, while they say all the things people who don't know a thing about it beyond a few catchphrases say. They actually make stuff up out of thin air in an attempt to support the narrative. And the stuff they make up is also surprisingly common.

Look at this shit, look at this bizarre whining about how bias western news is, the news is focused on the primitive brutal savagery of Hamas as this massacre happens, while these whiners don't like that? WTF else should the news be talking about as this happens?

Do they even know what Hamas is? Do they even know Hamas has a charter which states they will not stop till not just every last Israeli is dead but every last Jews globally, they're like the Nazis FFS and they're the ones these people aren't bothered about to make stuff up about the people who are trying to tell civilians to move out of a soon to be danger zone?

 

WTF is ANYBODY supposed to do with an entity like that? So Is it just me or is that weird?

What is it these whiners want? Israel to just suicide like Hamas wants them to? And in fact to give them some due they probably don't even know all this shit. All they know is the title, Israel bad anybody else good, don't ask why because we don't know why. And incidentally unlike them I don't even actually take a side in this, simply oppose Hamas.

 

I wont make anything up, why would I? I'm just a hard facts kind of guy, and I really don't get on any deep level why they would make shit up about this, off the cuff as they go. A fact disproving the narrative may surface, it will be argued without thought. In fact we just saw an example.

 

I point out Hamas were actually elected, somebody decides okay i will pull a Trump and suggest it was a rigged election while probably not even knowing beforehand there had ever been an election which was internationally monitored. Just out of thin air. 

https://x.com/Amnachaudry55/status/1711476257412595825?s=20

 

Really 
 

🤦‍♂️

 

caution upsetting  link

Edited October 9, 2023 by heatonjambo

[SwindonJambo]

6 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Videos of parents carrying their dead kids all over twitter…😢

I’ve seen a hundred of these images over the years I’m not sure why it’s hitting me harder now. 
What a tragedy this is.
 

Most of the dead will be complete innocents. What Hamas did on Saturday was inexcusable but no doubt the Israeli response will be disproportionate and over the top. Mass loss of innocent life on both sides. There are absolutely no winners here. Sad sad stuff. Most folk everywhere just want to get on with their lives in peace.

[il Duce McTarkin]

10 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Videos of parents carrying their dead kids all over twitter…😢

I’ve seen a hundred of these images over the years I’m not sure why it’s hitting me harder now. 
What a tragedy this is.
 

 

Dunno how you can watch them, jack. The news on the telly is hard enough. My Mrs was blubbering away earlier on. Heartbreaking, man. 😔

[jack D and coke]

4 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

Dunno how you can watch them, jack. The news on the telly is hard enough. My Mrs was blubbering away earlier on. Heartbreaking, man. 😔

Awful stuff man. Brought tears to my eyes I won’t lie.
So many innocent people caught up in this. 
****ing dreadful. 

 

[jack D and coke]

7 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

Most of the dead will be complete innocents. What Hamas did on Saturday was inexcusable but no doubt the Israeli response will be disproportionate and over the top. Mass loss of innocent life on both sides. There are absolutely no winners here. Sad sad stuff. Most folk everywhere just want to get on with their lives in peace.

Normal folk now dealing with utter tragedy. Some of the videos have looked like hell on earth. 
My heart breaks for them. 

[SwindonJambo]

3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Normal folk now dealing with utter tragedy. Some of the videos have looked like hell on earth. 
My heart breaks for them. 

Mine too. I can’t bear to watch them. It’s tough enough reading descriptions.

[JudyJudyJudy]

https://www.dci-palestine.org/91_palestinian_children_in_gaza_killed_in_israeli_assault
 

 

[hughesie27]

Rumours that Hamas has killed 2 hostages in response to continued bombing from Israel. Unconfirmed.

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, hughesie27 said:

Can't help but think that if Sunak's inlaws were stuck in Gaza that itnwoukd be headline news and probably result in an international effort to ensure they could get out.

 

Not even mentioned on Sky News once.

 

Fair point.

 

See how that goes with the family saying they can't get out of Gaza. 

[Mikey1874]

5 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Rumours that Hamas has killed 2 hostages in response to continued bombing from Israel. Unconfirmed.

 

What they said they would do. 

 

Israel will be reconciled with them all dying. They prefer to hit Hamas over getting them back alive. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Mikey1874

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

41 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

So you looked it up, good. My actual meaning in decades was that I have been researching the whole situation for decades, since 1998 to be precise. But if you want to try to pick on that as some sort of point that negates in any way anything I say on the topic, be my guest.

I didn’t look it up. By coincidence it came up on a news story as I was answering. Lucky me.

[Tazio]

I’m done with this thread. I was going to post a few facts but I really can’t be bothered being spoken down to. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Tazio
Pointless.

[heatonjambo]

1 minute ago, Tazio said:

I’m done with this thread. I was going to post a few facts but I really can’t be bothered being spoken down to. 

I hope your not

 

reasoned  responses are needed 

 

i appreciate your knowledgeable posts

 

 

[hughesie27]

https://x.com/MarioNawfal/status/1711490358922682653?s=20


This guy hosting a Twitter space with 25k listening. Up to date info.

[JFK-1]

Biden confirming they have reason to believe there are American hostages, and when you consider I think there are currently 10 confirmed UK dead including one Scottish man it might be likely there are also UK hostages. Made me wonder if that fact might encourage either or both nations to launch special ops attacks in an attempt to recover hostages. Sort of raid on Entebbe like scenario.

[Jeffros Furios]

[Cade]

Oh aye, because white western Christian crusaders launching special ops attacks in Gaza will play so well on the world stage.

 

 

You need to take a wee step back and get some objectivity.

 

[JFK-1]

Have to agree with Obama on this one, this thing can never end while Hamas hold sway in Gaza. This is from their charter.

 

“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.” 

 

They steal million of foreign aid dollars intended for hospitals etc. to carry on their terror campaign for as long as it takes to wipe out Israel and kill all the Jews, it actually says that. They don't give a flying about the population, they're holding the population hostage and will do so endlessly until stopped.

 

Obama calls for the 'dismantling' of Hamas

 

"All Americans should be horrified and outraged by the brazen terrorist attacks on Israel and the slaughter of innocent civilians," former US President Barack Obama says in a statement that has just been released.

 

"We grieve for those who died, pray for the safe return of those who’ve been held hostage, and stand squarely alongside our ally, Israel, as it dismantles Hamas," he continues.

[ArcticJambo]

like it would be doable in the first place.

 

Excuse me old chaps, we're looking for a dandy looking Englishman, could you point us in the right direction!

[JFK-1]

Just now, Cade said:

Oh aye, because white western Christian crusaders launching special ops attacks in Gaza will play so well on the world stage.

 

 

You need to take a wee step back and get some objectivity.

 

 

Well maybe you don't get the gravity here, I believe in this chaos absolutely anything is possible. So unless you can provide anything beyond your own opinion to suggest I need to get some objectivity I suggest you need to do so. 😉

[hughesie27]

2 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

Have to agree with Obama on this one, this thing can never end while Hamas hold sway in Gaza. This is from their charter.

 

“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.” 

 

They steal million of foreign aid dollars intended for hospitals etc. to carry on their terror campaign for as long as it takes to wipe out Israel and kill all the Jews, it actually says that. They don't give a flying about the population, they're holding the population hostage and will do so endlessly until stopped.

 

Obama calls for the 'dismantling' of Hamas

 

"All Americans should be horrified and outraged by the brazen terrorist attacks on Israel and the slaughter of innocent civilians," former US President Barack Obama says in a statement that has just been released.

 

"We grieve for those who died, pray for the safe return of those who’ve been held hostage, and stand squarely alongside our ally, Israel, as it dismantles Hamas," he continues.

Then we have the ex President's son coming out with this.

 

https://x.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1711472757207150870?s=20