Israel and Palestine

[Malinga the Swinga]

Fence the whole area in and let them fight till none of them left.

Fighting over 'the promised land' promised by both of their stupid made up religions and it's prophets. Bampots believing a magic man existed and they're special.

Failing that, tell FIFA and Uefa that Is Israel not in Europe and they are not welcome in any competition and neither are it's clubs.

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

Celtic supporters talking about Palestine oh what a surprise

 

 

[Mikey1874]

Not in any way supporting what happened today.

 

Not sure though Britain bombing French and German towns and cities during the war knowing it was killing civilians is much different. 

[Janbo1874]

2023 and they are still arguing about who threw the first stone.

Jeez what a world we live temporarily in.

[Hagar the Horrible]

Israel will see this as Pearl Harbour. You take an inch of their territory they take a mile of yours (territory and its ownership is argumentative) kill an Israeli 50 Palestinians will lose their lives. The Arab nations poke this hornets nest and the Palestinians get stung. 

[Cade]

Collective punishment and civilian reprisals are both actual War Crimes, not that this fact has ever stopped them before.

 

In this sorry conflict there ARE no good guys.

Both sides are absolute arseholes.

[the posh bit]

1 hour ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

Celtic supporters talking about Palestine oh what a surprise

 

 

 

Massively relevant in the grand scheme of things. 

[henrysmithsgloves]

Wonder if the Russian government have a hand in it🤔

[JFK-1]

3 hours ago, XB52 said:

Apart from the millions existing in refugee camps in surrounding countries, Gaza is just one big camp. 

 

 

Okay just start from there. Presume I had known little or nothing about this which is actually often the case for many who think they do know enough.

 

So if I had known nothing about it I would have thought you were saying Israel has millions in camps, nazi like.

 

Now why did you do that? Did you think it? Or did you have to look it up to discover it's actually their fellow Arabs keeping them there? Are these Arabs racists?

[Irufushi]

More religious pish. Nobody wins. 

[biglaff]

As bad as Israel can be at times, no normal thinking person can support what Hamas has done, especially after seeing the videos. If you support the killing of innocent people and what happened yesterday, then you are a *****, plain and simple. And don't give me all the  " but look what Israel has done" speech. I don't support the things Israel does , but yesterday was sickening what Hamas did.  Supporting it just means you are brain dead.

[been here before]

Arabs, Jews, Christians etc... They've been at each others throats in this part of the world for millenia and it's never going to change.

 

Get all the warring factions together in the desert in one big medievel style pitched battlefield and let them all bomb each other to oblivion.

 

Things there will never, ever change.

[JFK-1]

Hezbollah who are a more powerful military force than Hamas will now join the assault on Israel which is actually pretty standard. Anytime Hamas launch anything major Hezbollah quickly join in.

[AlphonseCapone]

1 minute ago, JFK-1 said:

Hezbollah who are a more powerful military force than Hamas will now join the assault on Israel which is actually pretty standard. Anytime Hamas launch anything major Hezbollah quickly join in.

 

I think, or hope, they've just fired a couple of shots over the border as a solidarity thing to be seen doing something rather than being daft enough to properly get involved.

[Lord Montpelier]

6 hours ago, Irufushi said:

More religious pish. Nobody wins. 

Yep. Can probably draw a line back through most conflicts and religion will be there as a major or contributing cause. 

[JFK-1]

1 minute ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

I think, or hope, they've just fired a couple of shots over the border as a solidarity thing to be seen doing something rather than being daft enough to properly get involved.

 

If history is any judge it's almost standard practice for Hezbollah to join in if Hamas and Israel are going at it, while this is far and away the most audacious assault they have ever attempted. But here's a thing about it that occurred to me.

It would appear no one knew this was coming, not Mossad not the US not anybody had a sniff of anything coming down. Now that suggests to me they somehow kept this very close to their chests, maybe didn't say anything at all even to Hezbollah about be prepared. I'm thinking it may have taken Hezbollah by surprise too.

[Diadora Van Basten]

Reading the BBC propaganda is quite disgusting e.g. Hamas leaders homes hit in 150 targets.

 

So in other words Israel just hit 150 civilians homes indiscriminately and claimed it was military targets as Hamas leaders lived there.

 

If Russia had done this then the headline would be Russia target residential area.

 

Also the headline is about how many Israelis have been killed then in the foot note you realise that twice as many Palestinians have been killed.

 

Finally the article suggests it was an unprovoked attack but I would bet this isn’t the case.

[JFK-1]

2 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

So in other words Israel just hit 150 civilians homes indiscriminately and claimed it was military targets as Hamas leaders lived there.

 

If Russia had done this then the headline would be Russia target residential area.

 

 

What's wrong with you? I can assure you what they hit was indeed the homes of Hamas militants all of which they will have known beforehand, just one reason being it would be feckin'  retarded to just scatter ordinance all over the place. And really weird not to grasp all this. Which you clearly didn't.

 

So the propaganda is either right from your own head, or fed to you by another. Can you clarify on that? And BTW, Russia? What is wrong with you? Do Russia tell people to get out before they launch attacks? 

[Gundermann]

Sad, sad stuff.

 

Apparently a lot of the killed Israelis were at a peace festival.

 

So much for right-wing Netanyahu protecting his people. Am amazed that nutter is still in power.

 

Hamas is crazy for this attack - it won't solve anything but the international community needs to do more to hold Israel to account and to international law.

[Diadora Van Basten]

5 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

 

What's wrong with you? I can assure you what they hit was indeed the homes of Hamas militants all of which they will have known beforehand, just one reason being it would be feckin'  retarded to just scatter ordinance all over the place. And really weird not to grasp all this. Which you clearly didn't.

 

So the propaganda is either right from your own head, or fed to you by another. Can you clarify on that? And BTW, Russia? What is wrong with you? Do Russia tell people to get out before they launch attacks? 

Israel kill more people than Russia, they create more refugees than Russia, they steal land like Russia but we are supposed to believe that Russia do it because they are crazy whilst Israel do it to because they are supposedly under attack. It’s utter garbage.

[JFK-1]

Just now, Diadora Van Basten said:

Israel kill more people than Russia, they create more refugees than Russia, they steal land like Russia but we are supposed to believe that Russia do it because they are crazy whilst Israel do it to because they are supposedly under attack. It’s utter garbage.

 

So you're going to just act is if that first pile of fantasy nonsense was never uttered? Nothing to say about it? Can you address anything?

 

Try going back over that before rambling more, think you can do that?

[Diadora Van Basten]

2 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

So you're going to just act is if that first pile of fantasy nonsense was never uttered? Nothing to say about it? Can you address anything?

 

Try going back over that before rambling more, think you can do that?

Blaming Palestine’s is like blaming a woman for hitting their rapist in the face.

[JFK-1]

Just now, Diadora Van Basten said:

Blaming Palestine’s is like blaming a woman for hitting their rapist in the face.

 

Do you grasp how stupid you look?

[JFK-1]

1 minute ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

Blaming Palestine’s is like blaming a woman for hitting their rapist in the face.

 

Here's how stupid you look. First you ramble a pile of fantasy nonsense about the BBC posting propaganda, which was in actual fact news all the major sources will be reporting. Even a layman sitting in the house can figure out your theory of random shelling killing people just because is retarded.

And becomes even more retarded when you consider those thousands of rickets Hamas are firing into Israel? That actually IS random bombardment that could fall anywhere, unlike the precision Israeli strikes.

That's just one feature of this bizarre rambling. Then it becomes Israel killing more people than Russia, even more retarded and you obviously just pulled that straight out of your arse because not even a knowledgeable propaganda would say such a thing. It's so obviously stupid.

I can guarantee you Russia have killed far more Ukrainians alone since their invasion began than Israel has killed Palestinians in their entire history, COUNTLESS times more.

Here's something else you wouldn't know. Until relatively recently Jordan killed more Palestinians in a single 10 month period called 'black September' during which Jordan killed thousands of Palestinians.

It took Israel decades to accumulate that total, that's how ignorant you are on this issue. Again, what's wrong with you? Why do you make this stuff up? That's weird. 

[biglaff]

29 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

Israel kill more people than Russia, they create more refugees than Russia, they steal land like Russia but we are supposed to believe that Russia do it because they are crazy whilst Israel do it to because they are supposedly under attack. It’s utter garbage.

Are you seriously supporting what Hamas did?

 

[XB52]

8 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Okay just start from there. Presume I had known little or nothing about this which is actually often the case for many who think they do know enough.

 

So if I had known nothing about it I would have thought you were saying Israel has millions in camps, nazi like.

 

Now why did you do that? Did you think it? Or did you have to look it up to discover it's actually their fellow Arabs keeping them there? Are these Arabs racists?

I'm sorry as i agree with you on a lot of things, especially politics, but not this time. You have been shown by me and others that there are millions of Palestinians surviving in refugee camps. I never mentioned nazıs, you did. 

Unlike you, i suspect, i lived in the Middle East for years, and I know that many Arab states prefer to ignore the plight of the Palestinians. Where you are wrong is that it's the Palestinians that are 'keeping themselves' in the camps as they still hold on to.the dream that the world will one day act and they can return to Their country. I'm pretty certain that will never happen though.

 

[Diadora Van Basten]

Just now, biglaff said:

Are you seriously supporting what Hamas did?

 

https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/
 

I will just leave this here and point you to the graph showing dead and injured on both sides.

 

As you will see there is a pattern with a few Israelis being killed or injured followed by thousands of Palestinians being killed or injured. The graph is based on UN data so is from a credible source.

 

Do you really think that the results shown by the graph equals the news reports that have taken place over the years.

 

The news reports by the BBC are just repeating Israel propaganda and have no reflection of what is actually happening in the conflict.

[XB52]

43 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

 

What's wrong with you? I can assure you what they hit was indeed the homes of Hamas militants all of which they will have known beforehand, just one reason being it would be feckin'  retarded to just scatter ordinance all over the place. And really weird not to grasp all this. Which you clearly didn't.

 

So the propaganda is either right from your own head, or fed to you by another. Can you clarify on that? And BTW, Russia? What is wrong with you? Do Russia tell people to get out before they launch attacks? 

You need to stop listening to the US media as you will only ever hear the Israel side of things. Totally 100% biased. UK is almost as bad but not quite.

All.my posts on here don't mean i support the barbaric actions of sone Hamas fighters. Apart from being horrified about the reports but also because it will only lead to more misery for the residents of Gaza.

[Diadora Van Basten]

[XB52]

5 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/
 

I will just leave this here and point you to the graph showing dead and injured on both sides.

 

As you will see there is a pattern with a few Israelis being killed or injured followed by thousands of Palestinians being killed or injured. The graph is based on UN data so is from a credible source.

 

Do you really think that the results shown by the graph equals the news reports that have taken place over the years.

 

The news reports by the BBC are just repeating Israel propaganda and have no reflection of what is actually happening in the conflict.

Good post but facts can't compete with media bias

[biglaff]

6 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/
 

I will just leave this here and point you to the graph showing dead and injured on both sides.

 

As you will see there is a pattern with a few Israelis being killed or injured followed by thousands of Palestinians being killed or injured. The graph is based on UN data so is from a credible source.

 

Do you really think that the results shown by the graph equals the news reports that have taken place over the years.

 

The news reports by the BBC are just repeating Israel propaganda and have no reflection of what is actually happening in the conflict.

You haven't answered my question: do you support what Hamas did yesterday?

[Diadora Van Basten]

Just now, biglaff said:

You haven't answered my question: do you support what Hamas did yesterday?

Do you support what Israel are doing now?

[New Town Loafer]

48 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

Israel kill more people than Russia, they create more refugees than Russia, they steal land like Russia but we are supposed to believe that Russia do it because they are crazy whilst Israel do it to because they are supposedly under attack. It’s utter garbage.

You’re correct. We all know why the reporting and standards re Israel is different, though.

[biglaff]

12 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

Do you support what Israel are doing now?

Why will you not answer the question?

 

[JFK-1]

31 minutes ago, XB52 said:

I'm sorry as i agree with you on a lot of things, especially politics, but not this time. You have been shown by me and others that there are millions of Palestinians surviving in refugee camps. I never mentioned nazıs, you did. 

Unlike you, i suspect, i lived in the Middle East for years, and I know that many Arab states prefer to ignore the plight of the Palestinians. Where you are wrong is that it's the Palestinians that are 'keeping themselves' in the camps as they still hold on to.the dream that the world will one day act and they can return to Their country. I'm pretty certain that will never happen though.

 

 

You don't need to be sorry to disagree with me, in fact that's fine, that's debate. Who knows maybe you can change my mind, maybe not. But take note on other threads I have been labeled some sort of lib leftie or whatever the hell, while here they will call me the far right? For not supporting Hamas? 

Also what you're failing to acknowledge here which gives me doubts about your inclination to debate in good faith is the point about Israel not holding them, which your first description looked like to someone who didn't know otherswise.

Then talk about me introducing Nazis when it was perfectly clear the point I was making. And I get the feeling all that was deliberate on some level, when it comes to Israel exaggerate any perceived flaw, pretend any criticism is somehow invalid while not proving it invalid. Or even make it up like that last guy did.

Yes, Arab states all ignore them and the reason is they want to continue this situation, indefinitely if need be, not give Israel peace, ever. Consider this. In 1948 after the first Arab Israeli war when 5 arab armies attacked them on their first day of existence it was estimated there were around 700K displaced people. There was no mention of any Palestinians, they were Jordanians.
 

That was 700,000 or so the surrounding Arab nations refused refuge to, then call Israel inhumane? Now think about that. A miserly 700K in the vast expanses of the middle east, which is much larger and much less densely populated than Western Europe. A Europe that incorporated TENS OF MILLIONS of displaced people following WW2.

 

And all for the sake of this tiny scrap Israel has they go feckin insane and allow the 700K to breed into million for decades? These people are fanatical, irrational, illogical, cannot be reasoned with.

You dream about them having a nation well they have been offered a nation more than once and refused it. Because of a major sticking point, the Israelis refuse to throw themselves into the sea. So this goes on till they're driven into the sea. That's in the Hamas charter FFS.

And as for the Palestinian thing there has never been any nation of Palestine, it was part of Jordan then became this entity that just had to be a nation around the 1960's and it's even been admitted it was fabricated to continue their war with Israel

And, despite all that if giving them nationhood solves everything i'm good with that, but it wont happen because they don't want it. They just hate Jews too much and that's the simple truth. As do many who support them.

[JFK-1]

32 minutes ago, XB52 said:

You need to stop listening to the US media as you will only ever hear the Israel side of things. Totally 100% biased. UK is almost as bad but not quite.

All.my posts on here don't mean i support the barbaric actions of sone Hamas fighters. Apart from being horrified about the reports but also because it will only lead to more misery for the residents of Gaza.

 

You need to stop thinking you need to tell me how to find factual news.

[Seaside Dave]

Palestine want to play silly games they will win silly prizes. Hopefully Israel run over the top of them and be done with them terrorists. 

[XB52]

3 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

You need to stop thinking you need to tell me how to find factual news.

Going by your previous post facts mean nothing to you. You go on about the 'war' of 1948. You mean when the state of Israel was created and, as you say, 700k Palestinians were forced out of their ancestral homes to create a Jewish state. 

And as for Palestine, it existed thousands of years ago, unlike Israel which was never a country until 1948.

Anyway, you will never accept any facts that disagree with what you have been forced fed by the 100% biased US media so I'm out. 

[XB52]

7 minutes ago, Seaside Dave said:

Palestine want to play silly games they will win silly prizes. Hopefully Israel run over the top of them and be done with them terrorists. 

Wow, so much ignorance in one post. 

Don't bother replying, I'm out of this thread now

Edited October 8, 2023 by XB52

[JFK-1]

2 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Going by your previous post facts mean nothing to you. You go on about the 'war' of 1948. You mean when the state of Israel was created and, as you say, 700k Palestinians were forced out of their ancestral homes to create a Jewish state.

 

You talk mindless pish I will highlight it ever time, what facts mean nothing to me? Give me a fact that's meaningless to me. I bet you can't.

[biglaff]

Many Israelis reported shot dead in Egypt. Breaking news.

[biglaff]

1 hour ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

I am curious, are you pro-Ukrainian or pro-Putin?

[That thing you do]

23 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Israel stole their land . The “ “ Balfour declaration “ is one of the great tragedies of modern day history . Shameful . 

This

 

The PLO in the early 2000s tried to end this by offering just about every concession available.

 

Israel said no. The right wing zealots don't want peace because enough fear keeps the public in panic mode and it's a vote winner.

 

It's a terrible situation. Palestine just wants to exist and Israel is intent in keeping it on its knees.

 

Now they have the excuse to occupy it/wipe it off the map.

 

Hamas are murderous *******s aided by Iran and what they've done is deplorable. Taking hostages I think was a tactic in case Israel try to flatten Gaza.

 

Israels policies are why its happened, people with no hope and desperate do desperate things. They thought the hunger games high tech security was working and this is a big wake up call.

 

Heard Israeli tourists shot in Egypt.

 

Got all the hallmarks of pulling the region into all out conflict and the rest of the implications that brings.

 

Sad situation.

[John Findlay]

No winners in this, only lovers.

Unlike Northern Ireland the hatred between Israeli(not all) and Palestinian(again not all), is a thousand times greater and some.

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

2 hours ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

Oh the UN facts. Why didn’t you say originally that’s were you got some of your info. The UN have no history of misrepresentation when it comes to facts.

[Spellczech]

13 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

Not in any way supporting what happened today.

 

Not sure though Britain bombing French and German towns and cities during the war knowing it was killing civilians is much different. 

There wasn't much in the way of precision bombing in those days. Did the Mosquito attack on the French chateau not kill a load of human sheild prisoners.

[Cruyff]

spot on. 

 

[Diadora Van Basten]

1 hour ago, biglaff said:

I am curious, are you pro-Ukrainian or pro-Putin?

Pro-Ukrainian

 

My point is we think Russian people are stupid for swallowing Putins propaganda but don’t realise UK people are just as stupid swallowing Israel propaganda.

 

I would hazard a guess that on tonight’s BBC news it will show a scene from the killing of an Israeli woman and will be told how she has dreamed of being a teacher, nurse or some other public servant good person. They will then cut to a bomb blast in Palestine before showing pictures of Palestinian youths throwing stones at Israel troops. The impression given is that both sides are as bad as each other but the Palestinian are the instigators. By the time the dust settles it will turn out that twenty times more Palestinians have been killed than Israelis.

[periodictabledancer]

14 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

Pro-Ukrainian

 

My point is we think Russian people are stupid for swallowing Putins propaganda but don’t realise UK people are just as stupid swallowing Israel propaganda.

 

I would hazard a guess that on tonight’s BBC news it will show a scene from the killing of an Israeli woman and will be told how she has dreamed of being a teacher, nurse or some other public servant good person. They will then cut to a bomb blast in Palestine before showing pictures of Palestinian youths throwing stones at Israel troops. The impression given is that both sides are as bad as each other but the Palestinian are the instigators. By the time the dust settles it will turn out that twenty times more Palestinians have been killed than Israelis.

The media coverage in the UK is a disgrace : you'd never know how hated or corrupt Netanyahu is. You'd never know how divided Israel is, that there have been regular mass demonstrations againt him in Israel (the BBC never covers these protests.) You'd never know , that like Iran , Israel is run by religious fanatics to the detriment of the general poplulation. 

UK media is terrified of the huge number of pro Israel lobby groups who monitor social media and will instantly jump on any criticism of Israel.

Israel has been doing whatver it wants whenever it wants for decades (more so   since the religious fundamentalists have acquired political influence) and simply doesn't give a **** what the world thinks because it knows the USA will arm it to the teeth whatever. 

 

 

[Jamstomorrow]

18 hours ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

I don’t believe Hamas are the aggressors I think Israel and the news agency would have you believe it’s a fair fight but it’s more like any excuse to use modern technological weapons against ordinary people defending themselves by throwing stones.

Aye!   Hamas fired over 2000 stones over the border which exploded in Israel.