COVID Enquiry

[Ked]

11 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

best days of our lives plus the latterly won Scottish cups

Anyway back to the covid stuff

 

 

 

Naw.

Stick wi this.

It certainly was.

The core of 2000 support grew and were more political than the fekin green brigade during the miners strike.

I'm proud of the support in those early and mid years.

There was a definite unsavoury element to our support.

I suppose I was part of that but we came through .

I love the history I know of Hearts support. 

Covid pffft

Mass unemployment pffft

Etc etc 

I like your posts better about thise days.

 

😆

 

Sorry again I'm spraffing.

Enjoyed posting that

[Spellczech]

I already know the outcome: "Lessons will be learned"

[SwindonJambo]

7 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

I already know the outcome: "Lessons will be learned"

Yup, a totally fruitless exercise, no prosecutions, a few wrists slapped, some grotesquely arrogant overprivileged oafs confirmed to be the bawbags we already knew they were anyway, some already wealthy lawyers will get even wealthier on their fat fees and wealthy journalists will report it all.

 

in summary, a load of unadulterated bollocks.

[Gizmo]

On 30/10/2023 at 19:58, frankblack said:

 

Its more about how long governments delayed acting, and what mistakes/incompetence cost lives.

Agreed. 

Dithering made lockdowns late on both occasions. If he wanted to go with the Swedish approach he should have been unequivocal about it, that he could not be decisive when he is the leader of the government helped nobody. Non-attendance at crisis meetings didn't help.

The second lockdown being delayed was criminal - they had plenty of information at that point to base decisions on, unlike the first one which one can at least empathize with the difficulty of choosing a path during an emergent situation with little data. 

Compounded by idiots like Cummings and Symonds at his ear pulling the strings.

I hope the inquiry also reflects on the actions of David Cameron selling off the storage of our PPE to dodgy companies who did not store it properly and the government as a whole not using lessons learned from Exercise Cygnus. 

I also hope every single person who agreed to send untested patients back to care homes is made to explain why. To me, from the outside, those people were basically sacrificed to create capacity within the NHS. 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

28 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

I also hope every single person who agreed to send untested patients back to care homes is made to explain why. To me, from the outside, those people were basically sacrificed to create capacity within the NHS. 

agreed - you didn’t need to be a doctor a scientist or have the benefit of hindsight to know that was a very risky strategy with a significant risk of the outcome which occurred

 

from what I’ve read some of the care homes didn’t want to take untested people in but were pressurised to do so with some still refusing point blank despite the pressure

 

i’d maybe cut them some slack

 

But the ones driving it as you say which appeared to amount to a sacrifice - if there’s some way of putting them in front of a court on some sort of corporate man slaughter charges I think it would be one of the few things about covid that everyone would be in agreement on

 

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

38 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

Yup, a totally fruitless exercise, no prosecutions, a few wrists slapped, some grotesquely arrogant overprivileged oafs confirmed to be the bawbags we already knew they were anyway, some already wealthy lawyers will get even wealthier on their fat fees and wealthy journalists will report it all.

 

in summary, a load of unadulterated bollocks.

sadly

 

[Footballfirst]

42 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

I also hope every single person who agreed to send untested patients back to care homes is made to explain why. To me, from the outside, those people were basically sacrificed to create capacity within the NHS. 

As the inquiry heard today, BoJo's preference was for old folk to accept their fate, rather than impact on the economy.

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by Footballfirst

[Canscot]

On 22/06/2023 at 13:26, Bongo 1874 said:

For anyone who doubts me you are more than entitled to do your own research,they told us we weren't going to get covid if we took these shots?

 

The fact anyone believed that giving an vaccine intramusculary, was going to beat covid over the nasal approach,shows that they know very little about this stuff.

 

When it primarily enters the nose and mouth first.

 

It's like not having bouncers on a nightclub door, just let the virus infect the body,we don't need mucosal immunity were the virus first enters meaning a nasal vaccine could have potential blocking infection in first place.

 

Nope let's go for systemic immunity, and let it gain access through the binding receptors of cells.

 

 

Don’t know what they were telling you lot over there but where I live it was made ABUNDANTLY clear that it would reduce the chance of getting it but if you got it there was less chance of having serious consequences/after effects. 
NEVER did I hear any public health official say you would not get it if you took the vaccine. 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

7 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

As the inquiry heard today, BoJo's preference was for old folk to accept their fate, rather than impact on the economy.

 

I think that bojo reasoning was more to do with them passively accepting their fate ie let the world continue and some will catch it and that’s the way it goes if you’re too vulnerable to fight it off

 

the transferring untested people into care homes was actively killing people very probably and was dereliction of duty on a whole new level even allowing for the crisis situation - it happened in Scotland too obviously and also Sweden where for all the debate about their general approach they totally ****ed-up the care homes too

 

there were no easy answers but if they needed they nhs space they would have been better firing them into hotels / holiday camps / leaving them in a farmers field with Tesco sleeping bags as in that scenario at least the ones already in the care homes would have been protected

 

 

 

 

[Gizmo]

14 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

As the inquiry heard today, BoJo's preference was for old folk to accept their fate, rather than impact on the economy.

 

I just saw that on Twitter.  It doesn't disavow me of the belief that to many politicians, if you aren't a cog in the capitalist machinery you are deemed less than worthless. 

[Gizmo]

Just now, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

I think that bojo reasoning was more to do with them passively accepting their fate ie let the world continue and some will catch it and that’s the way it goes if you’re too vulnerable to fight it off

 

the transferring untested people into care homes was actively killing people very probably and was dereliction of duty on a whole new level even allowing for the crisis situation - it happened in Scotland too obviously and also Sweden where for all the debate about their general approach they totally ****ed-up the care homes too

 

there were no easy answers but if they needed they nhs space they would have been better firing them into hotels / holiday camps / leaving them in a farmers field with Tesco sleeping bags as in that scenario at least the ones already in the care homes would have been protected

 

 

 

 

Didn't we have - or were in the process - of building the overspill campus hospitals? Surely that was an obvious place to move them to? 

[Footballfirst]

4 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

Didn't we have - or were in the process - of building the overspill campus hospitals? Surely that was an obvious place to move them to? 

They did create "Nightingale" hospitals which were never used.

 

Perhaps they could have paid over the odds for a barge to house them at the taxpayer's expense.  Oh wait!

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

1 minute ago, Gizmo said:

Didn't we have - or were in the process - of building the overspill campus hospitals? Surely that was an obvious place to move them to? 

literally anywhere bar the places that held the most vulnerable people in society

 

but yes I think those overspill places lay empty but they may have happened after the transfer

 

it is the one thing that every expert and non-expert above the age of 10 surely knew was the wrong/riskiest thing to do - there weren’t many easy answers and pressure immense but it’s difficult to think of a worse solution - I’m genuinely not convinced that tents and sleeping bags would have been a worse option

 

[and I say that as someone who very fortunately wasn’t adversely affected by the covid years in any way in particular being saved from watching neilsonball live]
 

 

 

 

[Jambof3tornado]

25 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

agreed - you didn’t need to be a doctor a scientist or have the benefit of hindsight to know that was a very risky strategy with a significant risk of the outcome which occurred

 

from what I’ve read some of the care homes didn’t want to take untested people in but were pressurised to do so with some still refusing point blank despite the pressure

 

i’d maybe cut them some slack

 

But the ones driving it as you say which appeared to amount to a sacrifice - if there’s some way of putting them in front of a court on some sort of corporate man slaughter charges I think it would be one of the few things about covid that everyone would be in agreement on

 

 

The care homes werent set up for receiving and isolating covid patients. Lack of training, information sharing and ppe etc was a massive issue, on several occasions I shared nhs stock of masks/faceshields etc with several care homes we were taking covid patients back to. Also on several occasions we were instructed not to inform care homes of covid status of patients we were handing over,and each and every time I DID NOT follow the instructions I was given to ensure staff understood what patients were infectious.

Also especially when care homes/hospitals were closed we allowed patients being transferred between settings to see family,sometimes for the 1st time in weeks,by simply leaving the side door of the ambulance open and turning our backs.

If politicians could bend/ignore rules then I saw no harm in doing likewise for the benefit of my patients.

The whole inquiry will result in no lessons being learned. Recent spike in cases 8 weeks ago saw us go back to NOT testing symptomatic patients before returning them to care homes!!!!

[Jambof3tornado]

6 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

They did create "Nightingale" hospitals which were never used.

 

Perhaps they could have paid over the odds for a barge to house them at the taxpayer's expense.  Oh wait!

In my opinion the nightingale hospitals were simply a place to move elderly patients into to die,thus freeing up beds for younger more clinically viable patients!

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

10 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

The care homes werent set up for receiving and isolating covid patients. Lack of training, information sharing and ppe etc was a massive issue, on several occasions I shared nhs stock of masks/faceshields etc with several care homes we were taking covid patients back to. Also on several occasions we were instructed not to inform care homes of covid status of patients we were handing over,and each and every time I DID NOT follow the instructions I was given to ensure staff understood what patients were infectious.

Also especially when care homes/hospitals were closed we allowed patients being transferred between settings to see family,sometimes for the 1st time in weeks,by simply leaving the side door of the ambulance open and turning our backs.

If politicians could bend/ignore rules then I saw no harm in doing likewise for the benefit of my patients.

The whole inquiry will result in no lessons being learned. Recent spike in cases 8 weeks ago saw us go back to NOT testing symptomatic patients before returning them to care homes!!!!

yup you guys were put in an impossible situation as were the care home staff and owners and I’m sure you did your best beyond the call of duty

 

i remember reading about care homes simply refusing despite pressure to take untested / symptomatic people back and others who did understandably do so under the pressure

 

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

10 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said:

Johnson shat the bed and should never have gone against his instincts with the lockdowns.

what we ended up with was the worst of both strategies and the least amount of benefit from both

 

even decisively choosing the wrong strategy (whatever that was) would have probably yielded better results

 

 

 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

43 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

I think that bojo reasoning was more to do with them passively accepting their fate ie let the world continue and some will catch it and that’s the way it goes if you’re too vulnerable to fight it off

 

the transferring untested people into care homes was actively killing people very probably and was dereliction of duty on a whole new level even allowing for the crisis situation - it happened in Scotland too obviously and also Sweden where for all the debate about their general approach they totally ****ed-up the care homes too

 

there were no easy answers but if they needed they nhs space they would have been better firing them into hotels / holiday camps / leaving them in a farmers field with Tesco sleeping bags as in that scenario at least the ones already in the care homes would have been protected

 

 

 

 

Well he allegedly had Covid.

If he did he could have done everyone a favour and popped it.

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said:

Anyone advocating for a lockdown had no grasp of the bigger/long-term picture and, although I don't like the guy, Johnson was spot on in his analysis of how little real threat Covid posed the vast majority of people; certainly no more or no less than other 'accepted' risks

Agreed . 
 

There  was virtually no thought given to the longer term impact of lockdowns . I honestly think many people have PTSD regarding them . Lockdowns were a panic measure . A something had to be seen to be done measure , and to hell with the longer term consequences 

[JudyJudyJudy]

17 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

what we ended up with was the worst of both strategies and the least amount of benefit from both

 

even decisively choosing the wrong strategy (whatever that was) would have probably yielded better results

 

 

 

 

They should have just went for shielding the vulnerable and let the rest of the pop get on with things . 

[That thing you do]

41 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

They should have just went for shielding the vulnerable and let the rest of the pop get on with things . 

That is technically what happened as a person of high vulnerability due to immuno suppressant medicine I was advised to shield in place.

 

I spent 8 months in my house and never left once as a result of that advice. My wife had our food delivered.

 

Fortunately we had enough open space I was able to get out a bit. The part about lockdown PTSD is probably true as I think many people had a mental challenge dealing with it.

 

Even now I prefer my own company over seeing groups of people. 

 

[Unknown user]

3 hours ago, Canscot said:

Don’t know what they were telling you lot over there but where I live it was made ABUNDANTLY clear that it would reduce the chance of getting it but if you got it there was less chance of having serious consequences/after effects. 
NEVER did I hear any public health official say you would not get it if you took the vaccine. 

 

It was the same here TBH but there was a LOT of screeching going on.

[The Mighty Thor]

3 hours ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

It was the same here TBH but there was a LOT of screeching going on.

There still is.

 

You can expect lots of 'I knew it' and 'I was right all along' by our resident immunologist and public health *Internet division types.

 

See above. 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

16 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

You forgot to add the poster Disinfectanting shopping during Covid19. 

What a complete ****.

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 hours ago, That thing you do said:

That is technically what happened as a person of high vulnerability due to immuno suppressant medicine I was advised to shield in place.

 

I spent 8 months in my house and never left once as a result of that advice. My wife had our food delivered.

 

Fortunately we had enough open space I was able to get out a bit. The part about lockdown PTSD is probably true as I think many people had a mental challenge dealing with it.

 

Even now I prefer my own company over seeing groups of people. 

 

Yes those c**** on both sides of the border have a lot to answer to. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

There still is.

 

You can expect lots of 'I knew it' and 'I was right all along' by our resident immunologist and public health *Internet division types.

 

See above. 

Says the resident “ political and international affairs “ expert “ . 😎

[JudyJudyJudy]

https://robinmcalpine.org/whatsapp-corruption-was-in-plain-sight-from-the-beginning/
 

 

 

[Shooter McGavin]

Torys, and their right wing lunatic supporters, are quite an insidious bunch eh.

 

Entire attitude towards their own parents and grandparents during the covid pandemic was essentially “hurry up and die”. 
 

A weird bunch.

[Dazo]

11 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Torys, and their right wing lunatic supporters, are quite an insidious bunch eh.

 

Entire attitude towards their own parents and grandparents during the covid pandemic was essentially “hurry up and die”. 
 

A weird bunch.

It’s all about the inheritance,  it isn’t that weird really.  

[Victorian]

Folk still spouting the shielding bullshit.  Medical apartheid sociopathy.  

[AlimOzturk]

Locking healthy people down was possibly the most stupid bat shit mental thing we could have done at the time. Ruin the economy and ruin people’s mental health. 
 

The people who came up with this idea and the folk who enacted it should be in jail. 
 

Starting with lockdown queen Nicola Sturgeon. 
 

Plenty folk on here actively welcomed lockdowns and the complete erosion of their basic freedoms and mental health. Starting to bite on the arse now when the big payback is happening. 

There should have been measures in place to protect the most vulnerable and they rightly should have shielded. They should have been supported both financially and emotionally. 
 

Pathetic response partially here in Scotland. This enquiry will cost lots

of money but ultimately do **** all

 nobody will be punished. 
 

 

[Nucky Thompson]

36 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

Plenty folk on here actively welcomed lockdowns and the complete erosion of their basic freedoms and mental health. Starting to bite on the arse now when the big payback is happening. 


 

 

And the same experts on here were shooting down South African doctors when they said that Omicron was milder.

 

It's like they still wanted Nicola to protect them  

[Footballfirst]

Helen MacNamara has already condemned the Cabinet Office for "deleting her work mobile phone" and thereby the messages on it. 

[Spitonastranger]

21 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

And the same experts on here were shooting down South African doctors when they said that Omicron was milder.

 

It's like they still wanted Nicola to protect them  

You wanted Boris and his lot 😄🙊🙉🙈

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, AlimOzturk said:

Locking healthy people down was possibly the most stupid bat shit mental thing we could have done at the time. Ruin the economy and ruin people’s mental health. 
 

The people who came up with this idea and the folk who enacted it should be in jail. 
 

Starting with lockdown queen Nicola Sturgeon. 
 

Plenty folk on here actively welcomed lockdowns and the complete erosion of their basic freedoms and mental health. Starting to bite on the arse now when the big payback is happening. 

There should have been measures in place to protect the most vulnerable and they rightly should have shielded. They should have been supported both financially and emotionally. 
 

Pathetic response partially here in Scotland. This enquiry will cost lots

of money but ultimately do **** all

 nobody will be punished. 
 

 

THIS 

[JudyJudyJudy]

44 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

And the same experts on here were shooting down South African doctors when they said that Omicron was milder.

 

It's like they still wanted Nicola to protect them  

They are still grieving for her . A cult. 

[Nucky Thompson]

18 minutes ago, Spitonastranger said:

You wanted Boris and his lot 😄🙊🙉🙈

Anybody but Sturgeon.

Thank feck both Covid restrictions and Sturgeon are in the past. Now the rest of the SNP please 

[Victorian]

Ah revisionism.  What larks.

[Jeffros Furios]

Are people seriously saying that once covid hit the shores there should never of been a lockdown ? 

No lockdown when the  whole population was unvacinated and the knock-on affect to the NHS ? 

[I P Knightley]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

Helen MacNamara has already condemned the Cabinet Office for "deleting her work mobile phone" and thereby the messages on it. 

Cumming has tweeted that he 'accidentally' kept copies of some documents that the Cabinet Office have deleted. The guy's a complete dick but he's determined to keep it entertaining for us onlookers. 

[Shooter McGavin]

2 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

Locking healthy people down was possibly the most stupid bat shit mental thing we could have done at the time. Ruin the economy and ruin people’s mental health. 
 

The people who came up with this idea and the folk who enacted it should be in jail. 
 

Starting with lockdown queen Nicola Sturgeon. 
 

Plenty folk on here actively welcomed lockdowns and the complete erosion of their basic freedoms and mental health. Starting to bite on the arse now when the big payback is happening. 

There should have been measures in place to protect the most vulnerable and they rightly should have shielded. They should have been supported both financially and emotionally. 
 

Pathetic response partially here in Scotland. This enquiry will cost lots

of money but ultimately do **** all

 nobody will be punished. 
 

 

I can kind of understand the initial lockdown, as we were still learning about what Covid was, how deadly it is, how fast it spreads etc. It was all a bit unknown so to me, trying to put the breaks on for a bit whilst we figure out what it was is fair enough.

 

But I will say some of the rules around that time were baffling.

Every 2nd cubicle, sink or urinal taped off for ermm… ehhhh…? Golf courses closed, whilst coffee shops were allowed to open? One walk a day because two would be dangerous? Park benches being taped off? Pubs allowed to open, but no music?

 

Still, we’re lucky that we can sit here and moan about it, about a quarter of a million people in this country weren’t so lucky.

[Ray Gin]

15 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Are people seriously saying that once covid hit the shores there should never of been a lockdown ? 

No lockdown when the  whole population was unvacinated and the knock-on affect to the NHS ? 

 

I think long covid may have affected their cognitive abilities. 

[Mikey1874]

While Dominic Cummings has a higher profile and seemed to slag off most people including quite brutally Helen McNamara speaking today. Her testimony, calmer and straighter talking is more devastating of the Government. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

21 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Are people seriously saying that once covid hit the shores there should never of been a lockdown ? 

No lockdown when the  whole population was unvacinated and the knock-on affect to the NHS ? 

"Pile the bodies high."

[Mikey1874]

14 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

I can kind of understand the initial lockdown, as we were still learning about what Covid was, how deadly it is, how fast it spreads etc. It was all a bit unknown so to me, trying to put the breaks on for a bit whilst we figure out what it was is fair enough.

 

But I will say some of the rules around that time were baffling.

Every 2nd cubicle, sink or urinal taped off for ermm… ehhhh…? Golf courses closed, whilst coffee shops were allowed to open? One walk a day because two would be dangerous? Park benches being taped off? Pubs allowed to open, but no music?

 

Still, we’re lucky that we can sit here and moan about it, about a quarter of a million people in this country weren’t so lucky.

 

Definitely some things in hindsight were wrong. Schools and education a big question. Not letting people close to their dying relatives.

 

But there isn't any question in reality. The facts are there The NHS would have been destroyed without the lockdowns and we'd have no other treatments now. Even in lockdown there was a lot of other treatments so although waiting lists went up people are still live from cancer treatments etc because of the balance taken.

[TallPaul]

Mass lockdown was completely wrong. Those elderly and vulnerable should have locked down but the young and healthy should have got on as normal. The governments that implemented these measures well and truly over stepped the mark. The notion of removing kids from school and friends for such a long period was a complete disgrace.

[Victorian]

It was always a matter of simple numbers.  Scale,  volume and rate.  Once one accepted the principle of the numbers then the truth became very obvious.

 

Nobody actually wanted the lockdowns and related measures.  That's simply juvenile nonsense.

[Taffin]

The Tories approach is every man for themselves, no such thing as society.

 

Those voting for them are happy to consolidate all the wealth at the expense of others...so forgive me for not having been supportive of those voters suddenly wanting social intervention when they fell on the wrong side of the 'have not fence'.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Taffin

[Lord Montpelier]

11 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

Mass lockdown was completely wrong. Those elderly and vulnerable should have locked down but the young and healthy should have got on as normal. The governments that implemented these measures well and truly over stepped the mark. The notion of removing kids from school and friends for such a long period was a complete disgrace.

Unsure if the enquiry will cover this.. but I want to see the rationale for pushing vaccines on younger kids in what was at the time a very forceful approach for little apparent benefit. 

 

My sense is those like Sturgeon, Freeman, Dentist, Sridhar, Swinney all got direction to stop pushing it- for some reason - as the messaging went away overnight and hasn't returned. I want to know what that was. 

[John Findlay]

Will be a Whitewash, like the very vast majority of enquiries, a complete waste of money.