COVID Enquiry

[BlueRiver]

5 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

wrong thread - grandstanding and political posturing aren't criminal offences in the same was as something like embezzlement might be. Shameful though the care home deaths are is in hindsight I'd prefer to assume that she didn't deliberately set out to do harm.

 

I don't think any of them did. It was misguided and ultimately a sad policy choice.

 

I've sympathy for politicians in the early days of the pandemic and the decisions they were being required to make. The sympathy evaporates the later you go in the timeframe for me. 

[Japan Jambo]

2 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

I don't think any of them did. It was misguided and ultimately a sad policy choice.

 

I've sympathy for politicians in the early days of the pandemic and the decisions they were being required to make. The sympathy evaporates the later you go in the timeframe for me. 

 

yup, after a while the politics started to kick in and the real BS started.

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

 

Sticking up for no one. I'm just fed up with this idea that you're a hypocrit on this board if you aren't glued to every issue equally. 

 

Folk can be more interested in Tory lies, more interested in English or Scottish covid enquiries or interested in both equally. If you wanted to spend all your time on about the English enquiry and nary a peep about the Scottish one then you do you. 

 

If you read my post as sticking up for Tories I'd suggest you lay off drinking paint. 

 

You're still barking up the wrong tree.  Nobody suggested that people need read or post in equivalent threads in equal measure.  If you're able to understand the original point then you might see that the predicted hypocrisy would be if one were to dismiss one inquiry as a waste of time or not of relevance,  yet practice the opposite with the other inquiry.

 

Get it now?

[joondalupjambo]

The whole issue was save the economy v saving lives and which would come first.  Evidence should show for various reasons that the Tories had the economy as their priority.  The madness was that people were dying, the decision makers were dealing with a complete unknown and rather than ere on caution decisions were usually being made too slowly at a UK Government level.  Also, and this is as a Nationalist speaking we should have had one group in charge rather than four Governments.  Boris hinted right at the start that he wanted a war cabinet style response and I am pretty sure he knew that without one central response group we were fecked.

Edited June 13, 2023 by joondalupjambo

[BlueRiver]

Just now, Japan Jambo said:

 

yup, after a while the politics started to kick in and the real BS started.

 

Agree. It didn't take long I think. 

 

I think Mikey is probably on the money with the outcome though. Lesson learnt, mistakes made, no particular individuals thrown to the lions. 

[BlueRiver]

2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

You're still barking up the wrong tree.  Nobody suggested that people need read or post in equivalent threads in equal measure.  If you're able to understand the original point then you might see that the predicted hypocrisy would be if one were to dismiss one inquiry as a waste of time or not of relevance,  yet practice the opposite with the other inquiry.

 

Get it now?

 

Except it wasn't. You said we'll see if disinterest extends. I can be more interested in one or the other. That doesn't make someone a hypocrite. You made no mention of dismissal of one and practising the opposite with another. 

 

 

[Toxteth O'Grady]

47 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

2. The Government acted fairly quickly and decisively notably lockdown. Scientific advice was helpful but incomplete. For example indoor transmission wasn't sufficiently understood early enough. 

 

Disagree - they let thousands of Spanish football fans come when it was raging in Spain.

[Victorian]

56 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Predictable bit of dullery.  The point is that it would be gross hypocrisy to cast one as a waste of time and not of interest to the individual,  while taking a keen interest in the other.  Both can only credibly be of equal relevance.

 

1 minute ago, BlueRiver said:

 

Except it wasn't. You said we'll see if disinterest extends. I can be more interested in one or the other. That doesn't make someone a hypocrite. You made no mention of dismissal of one and practising the opposite with another. 

 

 

 

See above.

[BlueRiver]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

 

See above.

 

So not your original point then. Your fleshed out attempt to make it look better. 

 

Good stuff. 

Edited June 13, 2023 by BlueRiver

[Victorian]

Just now, BlueRiver said:

 

So not your original point then. You're fleshed out attempt to make it look better. 

 

Good stuff. 

 

My reply to you after you jumped in trying to be arsey.  

[BlueRiver]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

My reply to you after you jumped in trying to be arsey.  

 

So not your original point then. Good stuff. 

[Victorian]

Just now, BlueRiver said:

 

So not your original point then. Good stuff. 

 

The original point after your fail.  My original point before that was essentially the same point anyway.  Good stuff.

[jack D and coke]

So another good old bun fight over nothing  

Lads, taps aff and chill with a nice beer in the garden🍺

[BlueRiver]

2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

The original point after your fail.  My original point before that was essentially the same point anyway.  Good stuff.

 

Except it isn't. Disinterest =/= dismissal of one. 

 

I'm disinterested in the Welsh one. 

[il Duce McTarkin]

****s sake, lads. Play nice.

 

16 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

no particular individuals thrown to the lions. 

 

ri Alban will be gutted.

[BlueRiver]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

So another good old bun fight over nothing  

Lads, taps aff and chill with a nice beer in the garden🍺

 

Just now, Dirk McTarkin said:

****s sake, lads. Play nice.

 

Ah you're both right 🤣 what's the world coming to when JD and Dirk are voices of reason...

 

@Victoriansorry for some right pointless nonsense there. Time neither of us will get back and I instigated it 🤣

[il Duce McTarkin]

3 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

@Victoriansorry for some right pointless nonsense there. Time neither of us will get back and I instigated it 🤣

 

I said play nice, not apoligise.

 

Not to that **&^, anyway.

 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Dirk McTarkin

[Victorian]

I don't care. 

 

[BlueRiver]

1 minute ago, Dirk McTarkin said:

 

I said play nice, not apoligise.

 

Not to that **&^, anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

🤣 it's good for the soul, Dirk. 

 

I don't really know him either. If it was yourself or Ri on the other hand...

 

 

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

 

Ah you're both right 🤣 what's the world coming to when JD and Dirk are voices of reason...

 

@Victoriansorry for some right pointless nonsense there. Time neither of us will get back and I instigated it 🤣

 

👍😀

[jack D and coke]

4 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

 

Ah you're both right 🤣 what's the world coming to when JD and Dirk are voices of reason...

 

@Victoriansorry for some right pointless nonsense there. Time neither of us will get back and I instigated it 🤣

 

1 minute ago, Dirk McTarkin said:

 

I said play nice, not apoligise.

 

Not to that **&^, anyway.

 

 

 

[Jeff]

He may be the voice of reason now but give it 2 hours and he'll be posting porn in the meme thread 

[Des Lynam]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

I hate the Tories with a fecking passion. Despise every last one of them.

 

[Morgan]

1 hour ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

On purpose Morgan old boy, was on purpose

 

Ah!  My mistake. Sorry.

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, BlueRiver said:

 

I don't think any of them did. It was misguided and ultimately a sad policy choice.

 

I've sympathy for politicians in the early days of the pandemic and the decisions they were being required to make. The sympathy evaporates the later you go in the timeframe for me. 

Yes power , control and authority is a potent aphrodisiac, NS sooked it up like a hoover , after her initial competence but then she went Colonel Kurtz 

Edited June 13, 2023 by JudyJudyJudy

[Konrad von Carstein]

My contribution to this excellent thread 

 

The lack of planning and procurement of the basics required for a pandemic due to austerity measures and political dogma is jail worthy 

 

The mind boggling sums of money spent/funneled to pals and cronies in the fast track process in an attempt to address this is also jail worthy

 

The pissing contests and distain for the devolved admins points of view by WM cannot be repeated, a 4 nation approach(until Indy  ) should be just that.

 

Any similar circumstance arising, please God no, should be much more cognisant of medical, epidemiology and health care professionals and political nonsense (eat out to help out) should have no place in a pandemic or other emergency response

 

I'd go further and say that politicians should be the face of the process rather that the drivers as they have been found to be inept and corrupt on a massive scale.

 

Could say more but I'm watching a subtitled film.

 

 

 

 

 

[il Duce McTarkin]

2 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

My contribution to this excellent thread 

 

The lack of planning and procurement of the basics required for a pandemic due to austerity measures and political dogma is jail worthy 

 

The mind boggling sums of money spent/funneled to pals and cronies in the fast track process in an attempt to address this is also jail worthy

 

The pissing contests and distain for the devolved admins points of view by WM cannot be repeated, a 4 nation approach(until Indy  ) should be just that.

 

Any similar circumstance arising, please God no, should be much more cognisant of medical, epidemiology and health care professionals and political nonsense (eat out to help out) should have no place in a pandemic or other emergency response

 

I'd go further and say that politicians should be the face of the process rather that the drivers as they have been found to be inept and corrupt on a massive scale.

 

Could say more but I'm watching a subtitled film.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kurwa mać

[Costanza]

 

[Konrad von Carstein]

10 minutes ago, Dirk McTarkin said:

 

Kurwa mać

Co pizda? 

 

Film is Persian Lessons...

Edited June 13, 2023 by Konrad von Carstein

[i wish jj was my dad]

12 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

My contribution to this excellent thread 

 

The lack of planning and procurement of the basics required for a pandemic due to austerity measures and political dogma is jail worthy 

 

The mind boggling sums of money spent/funneled to pals and cronies in the fast track process in an attempt to address this is also jail worthy

 

The pissing contests and distain for the devolved admins points of view by WM cannot be repeated, a 4 nation approach(until Indy  ) should be just that.

 

Any similar circumstance arising, please God no, should be much more cognisant of medical, epidemiology and health care professionals and political nonsense (eat out to help out) should have no place in a pandemic or other emergency response

 

I'd go further and say that politicians should be the face of the process rather that the drivers as they have been found to be inept and corrupt on a massive scale.

 

Could say more but I'm watching a subtitled film.

 

 

 

 

 

Good post. I was sympathetic to the powers that be at first because they couldn't have been expected to know how to respond to something that hadn't happened in a century but they ran out of rope when the shenanigans in WM and posturing from Holyrood became the story. 

[Japan Jambo]

1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Yes power , control and authority is a potent aphrodisiac, NS sooked it up like a hoover , after her initial competence but then she went Colonel Kurtz 

 

at the start she was really impressive, clear focused, collegiate, far better than bojo. the minute she saw the opportunity to drive a wedge and grandstand though off she went, I'm sure she was provoked but ultimately she was drunk with power.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

at the start she was really impressive, clear focused, collegiate, far better than bojo. the minute she saw the opportunity to drive a wedge and grandstand though off she went, I'm sure she was provoked but ultimately she was drunk with power.

Yep that was her downfall . Incredibly I was quite the supporter of her and Indy until she turned the authoritarian screw round full blast 💥 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Actually the learning from it should have been a one nation response plus a unity government. 

Edited June 13, 2023 by JudyJudyJudy

[ri Alban]

Parties all over Tory central. While we're all telt.

[ri Alban]

On 13/06/2023 at 21:49, JudyJudyJudy said:

Actually the learning from it should have been a one nation response plus a unity government. 

But we're not one nation and the Tory filth can all go feck themselves.

[Mikey1874]

Chris Whitty on now

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-65967979

[manaliveits105]

On 13/06/2023 at 22:49, JudyJudyJudy said:

Actually the learning from it should have been a one nation response plus a unity government. 

Indeed 

[Gizmo]

On 13/06/2023 at 18:01, ri Alban said:

Hunt and May need fecking gaoled for their policy of no readiness.

 

On 13/06/2023 at 18:06, Japan Jambo said:

 

Mental, absolutely mental. No one anywhere on the planet was prepared. 

 

On 13/06/2023 at 20:54, i wish jj was my dad said:

Good post. I was sympathetic to the powers that be at first because they couldn't have been expected to know how to respond to something that hadn't happened in a century but they ran out of rope when the shenanigans in WM and posturing from Holyrood became the story. 

There were two critical choices made before the pandemic that informed our readiness. 
 

1. Cameron sold off storage of our stocks of PPE to a private company who stored it unlabelled and in unsuitable conditions such that it wasn’t available when the shit hit the fan. Nurses going into a frontline battle wearing bin bags. It took the army to salvage some of it.

 

2. Exercise Cygnus. The UK simulated an influenza pandemic in 2016 to ‘identify strengths and weaknesses within the United Kingdom health system and emergency response chain’. It identified 4 key areas for improvement and made 22 recommendations. The Telegraph raised doubts as to whether full implementation of improvements had been made prior to the pandemic. 

 

It’s clear to me that we could and should have been much better prepared even before we look at the calibre of government ministers in charge of our response. 
 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Gizmo
Added date for clarity

[Japan Jambo]

3 hours ago, Gizmo said:

 

 

There were two critical choices made before the pandemic that informed our readiness. 
 

1. Cameron sold off storage of our stocks of PPE to a private company who stored it unlabelled and in unsuitable conditions such that it wasn’t available when the shit hit the fan. Nurses going into a frontline battle wearing bin bags. It took the army to salvage some of it.

 

2. Exercise Cygnus. The UK simulated an influenza pandemic in 2016 to ‘identify strengths and weaknesses within the United Kingdom health system and emergency response chain’. It identified 4 key areas for improvement and made 22 recommendations. The Telegraph raised doubts as to whether full implementation of improvements had been made prior to the pandemic. 

 

It’s clear to me that we could and should have been much better prepared even before we look at the calibre of government ministers in charge of our response. 
 

 

 

 

completely agree that even without the benefit of hindsight we missed some opportunities to prepare better. Doesn't change my view though that no government was well prepared for that. Have you somewhere in mind that we should be learning from?

[Ked]

3 hours ago, Gizmo said:

 

 

There were two critical choices made before the pandemic that informed our readiness. 
 

1. Cameron sold off storage of our stocks of PPE to a private company who stored it unlabelled and in unsuitable conditions such that it wasn’t available when the shit hit the fan. Nurses going into a frontline battle wearing bin bags. It took the army to salvage some of it.

 

2. Exercise Cygnus. The UK simulated an influenza pandemic in 2016 to ‘identify strengths and weaknesses within the United Kingdom health system and emergency response chain’. It identified 4 key areas for improvement and made 22 recommendations. The Telegraph raised doubts as to whether full implementation of improvements had been made prior to the pandemic. 

 

It’s clear to me that we could and should have been much better prepared even before we look at the calibre of government ministers in charge of our response. 
 

 

 

The social care of the elderly a particular source of worry .

 

 

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 hour ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

completely agree that even without the benefit of hindsight we missed some opportunities to prepare better. Doesn't change my view though that no government was well prepared for that. Have you somewhere in mind that we should be learning from?

Basic competence and acting upon findings from desktop excercises such as Cygnus would be a start.

Instead of following the dogma of cut budgets, ignore experts (©Gove).

My work runs annual exercises on incident management, we also have business continuity exercises and procedures.

The expertise is abundant in the UK, this "government's will to follow the advice of experts is non existent.

That's not to say C19 would have been a breeze but we would have had clear aims, Comms, and back up plans rather than the farce and lack of leadership we endured.

[Mikey1874]

11 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Basic competence and acting upon findings from desktop excercises such as Cygnus would be a start.

Instead of following the dogma of cut budgets, ignore experts (©Gove).

My work runs annual exercises on incident management, we also have business continuity exercises and procedures.

The expertise is abundant in the UK, this "government's will to follow the advice of experts is non existent.

That's not to say C19 would have been a breeze but we would have had clear aims, Comms, and back up plans rather than the farce and lack of leadership we endured.

 

The general pattern in Government is not to implement the findings of reviews. A big weakness. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Mikey1874

[Bongo 1874]

Anyone want too explain,why the excess deaths happening in all parts of the globe.

 

Or will that just go ignored, apologies if posted in wrong thread.

[Ked]

5 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Anyone want too explain,why the excess deaths happening in all parts of the globe.

 

Or will that just go ignored, apologies if posted in wrong thread.

What's your view on that?

[Konrad von Carstein]

7 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Anyone want too explain,why the excess deaths happening in all parts of the globe.

 

Or will that just go ignored, apologies if posted in wrong thread.

Cause it was a new virus and noone was prepared for how fast it would move.

 

 

[Konrad von Carstein]

12 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

The general pattern in Government is not to implement the findings of reviews. A big weakness. 

I've said elsewhere, politicians should be front of house, guided by experts and not determining what happens that way we avoid feck ups like Eat out to help out and VIP lanes...

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

I've said elsewhere, politicians should be front of house, guided by experts and not determining what happens that way we avoid feck ups like Eat out to help out and VIP lanes...

 

Rishi Sunak did Eat Out to Help Out. No scientific assessment or advice was given or asked for. 

 

VIP lanes wasn't from the scientists. Who exactly unclear but it seemed to the Conservative Party led it. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Mikey1874

[Konrad von Carstein]

Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

Rishi Sunak did Eat Out to Help Out. No scientific assessment or advice was given or asked for. 

 

VIP lanes wasn't from the scientists. Who exactly unclear but it seemed to the Conservative Party led it. 

My point(s) exactly.

[XB52]

23 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Anyone want too explain,why the excess deaths happening in all parts of the globe.

 

Or will that just go ignored, apologies if posted in wrong thread.

Well England had the highest in the western world

[Bongo 1874]

14 minutes ago, Ked said:

What's your view on that?

Have a look at the stats, massive increase in Heart problems etc, this has to be investigated, you would expect an increase in other,respiratory diseases causing death but this isn't the case?

 

Interesting these deaths seem to have accelerated, during the vaccine rollout in many countries.

 

Need to be investigated,why was the vaccine also pushed for kids,when the risks quite clearly outweigh the benefits.

 

Kids are genuinely healthy,there are some that need it i understand that,but alot of these people administering these shots are not giving,what is know as common law, informed consent.

 

Why did the likes of vaccine company's try and hide for 75 years, the full documentation of side effects, only to be blocked by the courts?

 

They also have indemnity from being sued,Governments granted them it.

 

It needs to be investigated.