Naismith, Forrest and McAvoy to end of the season ( updated/merged )

[Thomaso]

12 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Most managers start off as coaches don’t they?  They have to get their coaching badges before they become a manager.  So if it was down to you there would never be any new managers, just the constant merry go round of Steve Bruce, Sam Allardyce, Roy Hodgson, Neil Warnock, etc?

 

We’ve tried McPhee.  Like Cathro, he’s not a man manager.  
 

You seem to be basing SN’s managerial credentials on how he struggled as a player when he was basically finished due to injury.  Not really relevant. 

Exactly! All this crap that he didn’t motivate players when he was Captain - not what I saw when he played as he continually encouraged young players and bullied others when needed!

For lack of motivation of that team look to the terrible Managers and First Team coaches we appointed during the period he was playing for us!

[Thomaso]

Aye waste of money…..

[Thomaso]

2 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

Aye waste of money…..

24 goals

[Thomaso]

6 hours ago, ViewfromtheEast said:

He is not Mr Popular. Even I could tell you that. 

You think Fergie was “Mr Popular” with all his players?

[jambopilms]

8 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

How do you know an International player who had a fantastic career playing at the highest level does not have the respect of the squad?

Are you talking about Snodgrass now? Ex decent player doesn't mean shit, especially when your years at hearts were a disappointing expensive flop. Both Snodgrass and Naismith.

 

Playing for Rangers, Everton and Norwich doesn't automatically make you a leader, demand respect etc etc. 

 

Let's get Gary Naysmith in, he played for Scotland and Everton at the highest level, he would demand respect because of it and our players would be buzzing at being in the presence of such an impressive figure 

[jambopilms]

8 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

24 goals

I don't think playing less than half the games over 4 years and 24 goals is proving what you think it is.

We spent far to much money on him and the 4 year deal was a disaster.

 

For balance Shankland has 22 goals in one season, so far

[Fozzyonthefence]

3 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

I don't think playing less than half the games over 4 years and 24 goals is proving what you think it is.

We spent far to much money on him and the 4 year deal was a disaster.

 

For balance Shankland has 22 goals in one season, so far

Yes, the 4 year deal was a disaster but what relevance does SN’s injury record have as to whether he would make a good manager?  But since you want to argue the toss over it we’ve already seen the stats to prove what a positive influence he had as a fit player with us - so much so that we literally couldn’t win when he wasn’t in the team.  But you continue to ignore this and persist with a weird personal vendetta against him.🤷‍♂️

 

You want Neilson out so what would be so bad about a gamble on a well respected Scottish internationalist who is already a coach at the club?  Would be harder to find someone externally at this stage of the season. 

[Thomaso]

25 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

Are you talking about Snodgrass now? Ex decent player doesn't mean shit, especially when your years at hearts were a disappointing expensive flop. Both Snodgrass and Naismith.

 

Playing for Rangers, Everton and Norwich doesn't automatically make you a leader, demand respect etc etc. 

 

Let's get Gary Naysmith in, he played for Scotland and Everton at the highest level, he would demand respect because of it and our players would be buzzing at being in the presence of such an impressive figure 

Snodgrass?

Gary Naysmith has already tried management and failed so that would be a daft suggestion now wouldn’t it.

[Thomaso]

26 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

I don't think playing less than half the games over 4 years and 24 goals is proving what you think it is.

We spent far to much money on him and the 4 year deal was a disaster.

 

For balance Shankland has 22 goals in one season, so far

The one thing that made the 4 year deal a “disaster” was NOT his goals scored, his assists, his effort for the team or his motivation - it was injuries that nobody could have predicted! 

[jbee647]

37 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

You think Fergie was “Mr Popular” with all his players?

Jim McLean and Alex Ferguson were literally hated by there players at Dundee United and Aberdeen, but were highly respected and feared in equal measure 

[Jamdub]

How about Frankie McAvoy in charge.

[Pasquale for King]

4 hours ago, SMJ_1874 said:

I’m pretty certain we’d be off to parkhead for a 3rd time. Would suit us to have the wee team and the sheep at home along with 6th place and play the ugly sisters both away. We’re not beating them at home so we’ll trundle through with our pants already pulled down in anticipation for the inevitable M8 east pumping 

Quite possibly, probably better not to play both at home and have someone we might actually beat. 

[tian447]

Deary me, talk about shunting the problem down the road for a bit. 

 

Why the **** would we punt our current manager, and replace him with someone already associated with the club? How is that going to change anything? 

 

Don't get me started on "he was a top player so must be a good manager" bollocks. 

[jambopilms]

Let get Aaron Hughes in, born winner, Leader, great in the dressing room, international. Fleeced the club by only being fit for for his country.

 

Ok I am being daft now but somebody just justify the Born Winner and will demand respect tag he has earned on here. We are not talking about Zidane here.

 

Talking about an ex ranger player who played for a very average Everton before being a flop at Norwich, means nothing in terms of demanding respect. How many Scotland Internationals have had a similar career path but don't get the weird wobbly kneed respect he gets on here.

[Pasquale for King]

51 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

I don't think playing less than half the games over 4 years and 24 goals is proving what you think it is.

We spent far to much money on him and the 4 year deal was a disaster.

 

For balance Shankland has 22 goals in one season, so far

He gave up after three seasons i think? Wasn’t he that played him, a striker, in midfield, sounds familiar eh?

Edited April 2, 2023 by Pasquale for King

[Thomaso]

15 minutes ago, jbee647 said:

Jim McLean and Alex Ferguson were literally hated by there players at Dundee United and Aberdeen, but were highly respected and feared in equal measure 

Exactly! Maybe our under performing squad needs some tough love!

[Thomaso]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

He gave up after two seasons i think?

Gave up? How so?

[SomethingAboutObua]

Kickback da bingo - happy clappers, tippy tappy, suggesting we hire Naismith, suggesting we sign van Veen from Motherwell

[Pasquale for King]

18 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

The one thing that made the 4 year deal a “disaster” was NOT his goals scored, his assists, his effort for the team or his motivation - it was injuries that nobody could have predicted! 

I think his injury history may well have shown 4 years was a risk. 
We were up 3-0 at Dundee, he should’ve been subbed when he got injured. He had been played far too much, two full internationals when we couldn’t qualify just beforehand. 
We then rushed him back. 
We definitely could’ve looked after him more. Then the current manager played him in midfield. 

[jbee647]

16 minutes ago, Jamdub said:

How about Frankie McAvoy in charge.

Will definitely be in the running I’d imagine 

[EIEIO]

16 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

When I first saw Naismith training with the first team, he was brilliant at talking the youngsters through the game and I thought that he would make a good coach when he gave up the playing side.

 

I've been a bit disappointed with him as B Team coach.  He's very vocal, but not always constructively. I also think that he focuses on shape and organisation to the detriment of trying to win games by dominating the opposition, e.g. happy to keep passing the ball across the back slow the game down and play the percentage pass.  Today's B team performance was probably an exception to that as they played at a higher tempo, although that might have been more to do with their previous performance with Frankie McAvoy in charge.

 

I'm not convinced that we would see much change in the current style of play if Naismith was to get the gig atm.

Do you think Naismith has the lads playing this way under instruction from Neilson and co? Or is it his chosen style of play? Would be sensible for 1st team and B team to play in the same way, just not the one we currently play mind you.

[Pasquale for King]

11 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

Gave up? How so?

Three seasons he retired 

[jbee647]

11 minutes ago, tian447 said:

Deary me, talk about shunting the problem down the road for a bit. 

 

Why the **** would we punt our current manager, and replace him with someone already associated with the club? How is that going to change anything? 

 

Don't get me started on "he was a top player so must be a good manager" bollocks. 

I think people are realistic that persuading top level coaches and managers to ply there trade in Scotland is very difficult (unless you are the OF) that is why the same names are regurgitating for every job that becomes available.

Top coaches are not overly keen on coming to a league only 2 teams can win and without substantial transfer budgets to change anything 

As Aberdeen Hibs Dundee United and ourselves have found out in recent years when looking for managers and coaches.

when Neilson inevitably leaves I expect to be totally underwhelmed by the list of candidates 

[Pasquale for King]

16 minutes ago, tian447 said:

Deary me, talk about shunting the problem down the road for a bit. 

 

Why the **** would we punt our current manager, and replace him with someone already associated with the club? How is that going to change anything? 

 

Don't get me started on "he was a top player so must be a good manager" bollocks. 

Seemed to work ok for Aberdeen and Motherwell? I don’t think anyone wants SN as manager long term just until summer. 

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, jbee647 said:

I think people are realistic that persuading top level coaches and managers to ply there trade in Scotland is very difficult (unless you are the OF) that is why the same names are regurgitating for every job that becomes available.

Top coaches are not overly keen on coming to a league only 2 teams can win and without substantial transfer budgets to change anything 

As Aberdeen Hibs Dundee United and ourselves have found out in recent years when looking for managers and coaches.

when Neilson inevitably leaves I expect to be totally underwhelmed by the list of candidates 

Most countries will have two or three teams that can win the league, pay them enough and they will come. 

[tian447]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

Seemed to work ok for Aberdeen and Motherwell? I don’t think anyone wants SN as manager long term just until summer. 

 

But it didn't work the last time with the Levein debacle. In fact, it hasn't really worked out for any Hearts manager since Sergio, and even he finished 5th in the league. 

 

We need someone with a proven record who can come in, and tighten it the **** up.  Not a project, not an understudy, and certainly not giving someone their first shot at sitting in the big chair. 

 

The prize on the line is just too valuable for getting it wrong, which we are stumbling our way toward doing at some rate. 

[jbee647]

Most countries will have two or three teams that can win the league, pay them enough and they will come. How much is enough?

 

 

Alex Neil is on 28k a week at Stoke City, is that enough? ( for an average League One coach btw)

Im sure James Anderson will be more than happy to give us £20m every season for a “transfer war chest “

 

 

Edited April 2, 2023 by jbee647

[ShedBoy]

Get Colin in

[Italian Lambretta]

I’m not in the ‘we should recruit from within camp’. It’s been abject failure at Hearts over the last 6 years.

[Baxfee]

1 minute ago, ShedBoy said:

Get Colin in

Not being smart, but Colin who? 

[ShedBoy]

Just now, Baxfee said:

Not being smart, but Colin who? 

🤣

 

Neil Warnock

 

Its a Leeds thing.

 

Their fans rearranged the letters in his name and came up with Colin W@nker

 

 

Just a wee joke but he always said he wanted to have a crack at Celtic or Rangers with an Edinburgh club.

 

 

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/latest-hibs-news/cardiff-boss-neil-warnock-id-love-manage-hearts-or-hibs-and-rival-celtic-and-rangers-642175

 

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

17 minutes ago, tian447 said:

 

But it didn't work the last time with the Levein debacle. In fact, it hasn't really worked out for any Hearts manager since Sergio, and even he finished 5th in the league. 

 

We need someone with a proven record who can come in, and tighten it the **** up.  Not a project, not an understudy, and certainly not giving someone their first shot at sitting in the big chair. 

 

The prize on the line is just too valuable for getting it wrong, which we are stumbling our way toward doing at some rate. 

Totally agree but I cant see the club having someone lined up so SN might just be a palatable solution for the board. But tbh they wont do anything unless we get horsed at ER and “The Noise” becomes deafening.

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, ShedBoy said:

🤣

 

Neil Warnock

 

Its a Leeds thing.

 

Their fans rearranged the letters in his name and came up with Colin W@nker

 

 

Just a wee joke but he always said he wanted to have a crack at Celtic or Rangers with an Edinburgh club.

 

 

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/latest-hibs-news/cardiff-boss-neil-warnock-id-love-manage-hearts-or-hibs-and-rival-celtic-and-rangers-642175

 

 

 

Hes got a job at Championship Huddersfield

[ShedBoy]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

Hes got a job at Championship Huddersfield

🤣

 

aye was just a wee joke, some result he had yesterday mind …………

 

 

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

15 minutes ago, jbee647 said:

Most countries will have two or three teams that can win the league, pay them enough and they will come. How much is enough?

 

 

Alex Neil is on 28k a week at Stoke City, is that enough? ( for an average League One coach btw)

Im sure James Anderson will be more than happy to give us £20m every season for a “transfer war chest “

 

 

Not some loser from the English management merry go round, there are literally hundreds of managers out there who could do a better job with our resources.
Hopefully someone from abroad who has modern coaching techniques, with no connections to the uglies. 

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, ShedBoy said:

🤣

 

aye was just a wee joke, some result he had yesterday mind …………

 

 

 

 

Hes done well at most of his teams and would certainly have his say on the refs love of the uglies. 
Not a Budge type of personality though. 

[jambopilms]

43 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

He gave up after three seasons i think? Wasn’t he that played him, a striker, in midfield, sounds familiar eh?

Yeah sounds familiar, great to have around the dressing room, everyone respects him, shoehorned into the team with no justification. Whole teams goes down the drain.

[jbee647]

9 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Not some loser from the English management merry go round, there are literally hundreds of managers out there who could do a better job with our resources.
Hopefully someone from abroad who has modern coaching techniques, with no connections to the uglies. 

I’m not disagreeing with you, but I’m not convinced good coaches are interested in coming to coach in Scotland at our level no matter what we pay them, which won’t be that much btw relatively in comparison to other leagues .

Its a league only 2 teams can win as we will never have the financial clout to compete with the OF .

This is a problem for all the top clubs in Scotland outwith Celtic and Rangers,  we are all looking to bring in that coach who can take us forward, without huge financial input from outside investors, it’s not going to happen .

huge investment = 10s of millions 

[doctor jambo]

23 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Not some loser from the English management merry go round, there are literally hundreds of managers out there who could do a better job with our resources.
Hopefully someone from abroad who has modern coaching techniques, with no connections to the uglies. 

If there are hundreds of managers out there, why have Aberdeen, Motherwell, hibs, Dundee Utd not hired them?

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, jbee647 said:

I’m not disagreeing with you, but I’m not convinced good coaches are interested in coming to coach in Scotland at our level no matter what we pay them, which won’t be that much btw relatively in comparison to other leagues .

Its a league only 2 teams can win as we will never have the financial clout to compete with the OF .

This is a problem for all the top clubs in Scotland outwith Celtic and Rangers,  we are all looking to bring in that coach who can take us forward, without huge financial input from outside investors, it’s not going to happen .

huge investment = 10s of millions 

Yeah but most managers aren’t looking to win leagues, the vast majority don't. 
We are an attractive job that can get you a move to a bigger club, or the lucrative managerial merry go round down south if you can get 3rd and at least look like you gave the uglies a bloody nose. 
We have a huge squad with only a few youngsters in there, 30 players have been used so far. Cut that back by a few, promote youngsters, stop buying players when there are guys of equal quality available for free and the money is there to get a better quality squad and manager. 
 

[Pasquale for King]

8 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

If there are hundreds of managers out there, why have Aberdeen, Motherwell, hibs, Dundee Utd not hired them?

I dont work for them so who knows. Most of the top countries leagues have decent managers who would do better than RN. Had you heard of Sergio, Postecoglu, Thomas Frank, De Zerbi or guys like Potter who worked their way up the ranks. 
Just because you dont know them doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

We are an attractive club to work for to an up and coming young manager. 
 

[Pasquale for King]

30 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

Yeah sounds familiar, great to have around the dressing room, everyone respects him, shoehorned into the team with no justification. Whole teams goes down the drain.

I think, like Snodgrass now, he has them on the pitch to get someone to try and impart his tactics to the players because he cant do that himself. 

[Nik5122]

There is no easy answer to who would be our immediate manager or caretaker manager,but we are on a very slippery slope and I personally want RN out of our club yesterday.This is without doubt mirroring the Levin ending,the lack of fitness,sharpness,speed at which we play and then we hear (if true)the players have been on holiday.We have won 17 out of 42 games this season,in my opinion this is dire.Please go Robbie,and if he does then it's really up to savage and the board to get someone in and sort out this mess,and at least till the end of the season someone who is familiar with the players.Is  that man naismth?Hope so.

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 hour ago, tian447 said:

Deary me, talk about shunting the problem down the road for a bit. 

 

Why the **** would we punt our current manager, and replace him with someone already associated with the club? How is that going to change anything? 

 

Don't get me started on "he was a top player so must be a good manager" bollocks. 

Certainly changed for Aberdeen.  Robson was already a coach there but he’s having an impact on the players that Goodwin couldn’t manage. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 hour ago, jambopilms said:

Let get Aaron Hughes in, born winner, Leader, great in the dressing room, international. Fleeced the club by only being fit for for his country.

 

Ok I am being daft now but somebody just justify the Born Winner and will demand respect tag he has earned on here. We are not talking about Zidane here.

 

Talking about an ex ranger player who played for a very average Everton before being a flop at Norwich, means nothing in terms of demanding respect. How many Scotland Internationals have had a similar career path but don't get the weird wobbly kneed respect he gets on here.

To be fair, you’ve been daft on this thread for the last couple of days.  Naismith was absolute quality for us when he first arrived and got fit again.  He’s played Champions League, 51 caps for Scotland, played loads of games in the best league in the world and had a positive impact on the other Hearts players while on the pitch and this, combined with the fact he is now a coach with Scotland is making some think that he might do a good job as interim manager. You seem to have a blind, irrational hatred of him though so maybe it’s something personal? 
 

You want Robbie out and you’re ridiculing everyone for suggesting Naismith might do a job until summer.  If you want Robbie out now but hate SN who do you want in?  

[Weakened Offender]

2 hours ago, Thomaso said:

How do you know an International player who had a fantastic career playing at the highest level does not have the respect of the squad?

 

How do you know he does? He was a pretty unpopular player amongst most supporters of other clubs and more than a few Hearts fans were underwhelmed by his overall contribution in a Hearts jersey. He pretty much used Hearts as a platform to continue his international career. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. 

[bairdy]

As I posted before. if he loses to St midden and the lochenders, I think his time will be up.

But on the other hand, if he has Ms Budges backing, I don't think he'll be going anywhere.

[Frank Sidebottom]

1 minute ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

How do you know he does? He was a pretty unpopular player amongst most supporters of other clubs and more than a few Hearts fans were underwhelmed by his overall contribution in a Hearts jersey. He pretty much used Hearts as a platform to continue his international career. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. 

being unpopular with opposition supporters means absolutely nothing. In fact, it’s probably a sign you’re doing something right. 
 

None of what you have said has any relevance as to whether he is a suitable candidate to take the team until the end of the season. 

[ViewfromtheEast]

3 hours ago, Thomaso said:

How do you know that? 

I don't think it's a massive secret. Maybe it's what your team needs, maybe not. The born winner thing, what is that? Someone who moans a lot when things go wrong? Or someone who leads by example and encourages those around them? 

 

I know which one I'd rather play for. 

[periodictabledancer]

19 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

Naismith was sidelined into that job from the first team back up team because he let his voice be heard and Neilson and Jig didn’t like what they were hearing. Simple as that.

Really ?