***Official RFS v Heart of Midlothian Match Thread***

[Gorgierools]

14 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Ach it depends.  So are St Johnstone, (or whatever) if you know what I mean?

 

Teams can make up for height by being good.  We need better movement and to move the ball quicker than we tried to against Basaksehir (albeit that was hard cos they were so good).

 

Extreme, but Man City were always OK when they played Burnley.

 

We need to be a wee bit better at getting on with what we're good at.  We perhaps need to work out what we're good at first to be fair!! haha

My concern is our weakness on the right and our inability to defend corners. Their best players are the left winger and a 198cm DM who's good in the air.

[Der Kaiser]

Saw this morning €10,000 fine for Zurich for fans throwing stuff at Gordon. Pretty pish considering its €500,000 for a win

[TheBigO]

12 minutes ago, Gorgierools said:

My concern is our weakness on the right and our inability to defend corners. Their best players are the left winger and a 198cm DM who's good in the air.

Aye but I suppose every team will have its dangers eh.  Halks playing will make a difference - no one getting an easy header with him on the park imo.

 

Our RB area has quite suddenly become a wee concern.  Smith still defends fine so maybe that's the option depending on shape.  Natty just might still come good but he def needs to toughen up his defending - just be a bit more assertive

[We_are_the_Hearts]

Natty might come good but doubt it. Been worse than Jamie Brandon or Liam Smith so far and getting an easier ride as Australian. Really needs to up his game and toughen up soon. I would try Toby there and even that is a big chance. 

[Taffin]

8 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Aye but I suppose every team will have its dangers eh.  Halks playing will make a difference - no one getting an easy header with him on the park imo.

 

Our RB area has quite suddenly become a wee concern.  Smith still defends fine so maybe that's the option depending on shape.  Natty just might still come good but he def needs to toughen up his defending - just be a bit more assertive

 

Not sure is a sudden concern, it's looked that way since Souttar left and Smith became one of the options to cover at rcb.. We've been woefully short at RCB and RWB if we play a 3, and woefully short of cover at RB in a 4.

[Mr Elwood P]

6 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Not sure is a sudden concern, it's looked that way since Souttar left and Smith became one of the options to cover at rcb.. We've been woefully short at RCB and RWB if we play a 3, and woefully short of cover at RB in a 4.

 

Smith

Atkinson

Sibbick.

 

3 players that can play 1 position.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Mr Elwood P

[Taffin]

3 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Smith

Atkinson

Sibbick.

 

3 players that can play 1 position.

 

1 who's aging and has been expected to fill in at RCB.

 

Sibbick and Atkinson aren't RBs. Anyone in our squad could play there, doesn't make them a RB or a viable option.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Taffin

[TheBigO]

8 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Not sure is a sudden concern, it's looked that way since Souttar left and Smith became one of the options to cover at rcb.. We've been woefully short at RCB and RWB if we play a 3, and woefully short of cover at RB in a 4.

I just mean that I've always been very comfy with Smith at either of RCB or RB but the guy - respect him very much - is getting more notably toward end of career now.  Not sure his injuries have brought that about more suddenly perhaps.  And I was also pretty happy with Natty at RB or RWB on what i saw last season but it's undeniable he's having issues defensively.  Not making a big thing of it but it has become a wee weakness for us.  

 

I like both guys a lot and there won't be issues for lack of effort from either, that's for sure.  Hopefully something of a blip and they'll smash it.  Don't mind the thought of Toby at RB I have to say and perhaps this should be looked at as a lonterm option.  Quick, athletic, comfy on ball, tackles, heads, perhaps less "thinking" to do there for now too.

 

I've actually just talked myself into him playing there on Thurs as he also gives us height for set pieces.

[Mr Elwood P]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

1 who's aging and has been expected to fill in at RCB.

 

Sibbick and Atkinson aren't RBs. Anyone in our squad could play there, doesn't make them a RB or a viable option.

Atkinson will be playing RB for Australia at the World Cup, like he did against Peru. Folk need to show a bit of patience with him. We really miss his attacking intent when he's not playing. Folk will say he's defensively suspect but young right backs or wing backs always are... 

[Taffin]

6 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

I just mean that I've always been very comfy with Smith at either of RCB or RB but the guy - respect him very much - is getting more notably toward end of career now.  Not sure his injuries have brought that about more suddenly perhaps.  And I was also pretty happy with Natty at RB or RWB on what i saw last season but it's undeniable he's having issues defensively.  Not making a big thing of it but it has become a wee weakness for us.  

 

I like both guys a lot and there won't be issues for lack of effort from either, that's for sure.  Hopefully something of a blip and they'll smash it.  Don't mind the thought of Toby at RB I have to say and perhaps this should be looked at as a lonterm option.  Quick, athletic, comfy on ball, tackles, heads, perhaps less "thinking" to do there for now too.

 

I've actually just talked myself into him playing there on Thurs as he also gives us height for set pieces.

 

Yeh I'm a huge fan of Smith, he's been an excellent servant to us. 

 

I'm sure they're nice guys and hard workers but Sibbick and Atkinson can't defend for toffee and have no place in our back 4. Sibbick has some very good assets and reminds me of Eggert Johnson, it's about finding where he is best suited. 

 

Our defence looks like someone's chucked a selection of players in the air and then selected them at random...and the goals we concede reflect that too imo.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Taffin

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

Atkinson will be playing RB for Australia at the World Cup, like he did against Peru. Folk need to show a bit of patience with him. We really miss his attacking intent when he's not playing. Folk will say he's defensively suspect but young right backs or wing backs always are... 

 

Ah, the Juwon Oshaniwa logic again.

 

[Mr Elwood P]

Just now, Taffin said:

 

Ah, the Juwon Oshaniwa logic again.

 

Ever hear anyone talking about Trent or Tierney during their early development? Having Halkett back and the new central midfielder will help players like Atkinson immensely.

 

Perhaps missing our two best centre backs?  

 

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Yeh I'm a huge fan of Smith, he's been an excellent servant to us. 

 

I'm sure they're nice guys and hard workers but Sibbick and Atkinson can't defend for toffee and have no place in our back 4. Sibbick has some very good assets and reminds me of Eggert Johnson, it's about finding where he is best suited. 

 

Our defence looks like someone's chucked a selection of players and selected them at random...and the goals we concede reflect that too imo.

[The Fish]

Got 1 spare ticket in the Hearts end if anyone is still looking. Can be picked up in Edinburgh today or happy to meet you in Riga on Thursday. Cheers

[TheBigO]

10 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Yeh I'm a huge fan of Smith, he's been an excellent servant to us. 

 

I'm sure they're nice guys and hard workers but Sibbick and Atkinson can't defend for toffee and have no place in our back 4. Sibbick has some very good assets and reminds me of Eggert Johnson, it's about finding where he is best suited. 

 

Our defence looks like someone's chucked a selection of players in the air and then selected them at random...and the goals we concede reflect that too imo.

Thing is with Toby, he absolutely CAN defend.  He has lapses.  He needs to cut that shit out.  His one on one defending - what I'd call his physical defending is just fine.  He's gotta work on his brain farts.  That's why perhaps a stint at RB would be good for him. Been an age old story for young CBs to learn their trade at FB in the 1st team before moving to CH.  See Elvis for ref.  Davie Weir too.

 

An idea is all.

[Taffin]

Just now, Mr Elwood P said:

Ever hear anyone talking about Trent or Tierney during their early development? Having Halkett back and the new central midfielder will help players like Atkinson immensely.

 

Perhaps missing our two best centre backs?  

 

 

 

Trent?!? Never mind his early development, he's slaughtered defensively regularly today. Snoozing in the Champions League final and part of a defence that just shipped 4 goals to Napoli. At a different level of course.

 

He's just so good with the ball that you can't leave him out. He'd be an awesome rwb, but Klopp plays a 4 as the goals and assists he bring generally outweighs the bad. Atkinson as far as I can see has 1 goal and 1 assist, if that's what you're bringing offensively you need to be able to defend.

 

Also, Atkinson is the same age as Trent, older than Reece James and only 2 years younger than Tierney. He's 23 years old.

[jambopilms]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Also, Atkinson is the same age as Trent, older than Reece James and only 2 years younger than Tierney. He's 23 years old.

Exactly, folk waiting for him to develop might be waiting a long time, he's not 18.

He's just not good enough for us if we are hoping for 3rd and have some kind of success in Europe.

[Taffin]

4 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Thing is with Toby, he absolutely CAN defend.  He has lapses.  He needs to cut that shit out.  His one on one defending - what I'd call his physical defending is just fine.  He's gotta work on his brain farts.  That's why perhaps a stint at RB would be good for him. Been an age old story for young CBs to learn their trade at FB in the 1st team before moving to CH.  See Elvis for ref.  Davie Weir too.

 

An idea is all.

 

He's got all the right attributes physically, I agree. Positioning etc would come with experience, concentration though is entirely down to him, there's no reason he can't bring that despite his inexperience. I'd be happy with him as backup RB to Smith 👍

[Taffin]

Just now, jambopilms said:

Exactly, folk waiting for him to develop might be waiting a long time, he's not 18.

He's just not good enough for us if we are hoping for 3rd and have some kind of success in Europe.

 

I don't mind him at RWB, in theory. Given we've not got a RCB though doesn't help him, or us and makes it a not viable option imo. Which is a shame.

 

RB back though? Absolutely not.

[Bob Loblaw]

I thought Atkinson was one of our better players against Istanbul tbh. Always willing to go froward, made a few really good tackles, had good energy. He's nowhere near the finished article and his brainfart with his backheel flick was poor, but he done alright. There's a player in there IMO. If he's playing a settled backline with experienced partners such as Halkett it'd help immensely. 

[Bob Loblaw]

2 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

Exactly, folk waiting for him to develop might be waiting a long time, he's not 18.

He's just not good enough for us if we are hoping for 3rd and have some kind of success in Europe.

Players develop at different ages. These guys are all top level elite and played their careers in better leagues.  No one is claiming he'll ever be near that level, but it doesn't mean he can't improve or is beyond learning.

[TheBigO]

Just now, Taffin said:

 

He's got all the right attributes physically, I agree. Positioning etc would come with experience, concentration though is entirely down to him, there's no reason he can't bring that despite his inexperience. I'd b e happy with him as backup RB to Smith 👍

Not sure it's always as simple as concentration if you know what I mean - that makes it sound like his mind is drifting (oooh, I took that steak oot the freezer for tonigh, yaasss! aw shit, where did that CF go?).  I think he kind of looks like he has the weigh of the world on his shoulders at times and he doesn't have that clarity of mind great defenders have (or develop...?)

 

He needs work but he could be good.  Plenty plenty players, defenders in particular find themselves.  I mentioned Elvis above, much maligned.  Oor Zal is an obvious one too. Halks himself, perhaps our most important player.  Guess that based on his JKB rep 2 years ago!

 

Anyway, maybe not, maybe a lot of hope thrown in there, but Toby has a chance

[Mr Elwood P]

11 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

Trent?!? Never mind his early development, he's slaughtered defensively regularly today. Snoozing in the Champions League final and part of a defence that just shipped 4 goals to Napoli. At a different level of course.

 

He's just so good with the ball that you can't leave him out. He'd be an awesome rwb, but Klopp plays a 4 as the goals and assists he bring generally outweighs the bad. Atkinson as far as I can see has 1 goal and 1 assist, if that's what you're bringing offensively you need to be able to defend.

 

Also, Atkinson is the same age as Trent, older than Reece James and only 2 years younger than Tierney. He's 23 years old.

Atkinson is 23 but he hasn't played a huge number of games and only a handful against really good opposition. He's on a very steep learning curve currently but I believe he can become a very good player, either at RB or RWB...

[Taffin]

7 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

Atkinson is 23 but he hasn't played a huge number of games and only a handful against really good opposition. He's on a very steep learning curve currently but I believe he can become a very good player, either at RB or RWB...

 

I hope you're right and he becomes a good player for us who nets us lots of money when he moves. I hope that for all of our players, even the young Scottish ones like Jamie Brandon (at the time) that others don't seem to extend the same leeway to.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Taffin

[Rudi cant fail]

36 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

Atkinson will be playing RB for Australia at the World Cup, like he did against Peru. Folk need to show a bit of patience with him. We really miss his attacking intent when he's not playing. Folk will say he's defensively suspect but young right backs or wing backs always are... 

I’d be ok with that if his attacking abilities outweighed his lack of def since abilities but they don’t. Take Zurich for example, wins a pen and then at fault for their two goals. His positional sense and lack of awareness let’s him down big time. 

[Mr Elwood P]

13 minutes ago, Rudi cant fail said:

I’d be ok with that if his attacking abilities outweighed his lack of def since abilities but they don’t. Take Zurich for example, wins a pen and then at fault for their two goals. His positional sense and lack of awareness let’s him down big time. 

Think he makes those mistakes if Halkett is still on the park? Think folk are really underestimating how much we are missing Halkett. 

[We_are_the_Hearts]

12 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

Think he makes those mistakes if Halkett is still on the park? Think folk are really underestimating how much we are missing Halkett. 

He made loads of mistakes last season when Halkett was playing and was woeful in the cup final. We al want him to succeed but he really needs to toughen up and become harder to beat soon. 

[Rudi cant fail]

11 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

Think he makes those mistakes if Halkett is still on the park? Think folk are really underestimating how much we are missing Halkett. 

It’s difficult to say. I agree Halkett is a massive miss and can settle players around him. However there’s a good chance that Halkett will miss other games this season. He’s touch and go for Thursday and if he’s rushed back then it could be another long period of time out if his injury flares up. With Natty, teams realise he’s a weakness at the back and exploit this.

[TheBigO]

2 minutes ago, We_are_the_Hearts said:

He made loads of mistakes last season when Halkett was playing and was woeful in the cup final. We al want him to succeed but he really needs to toughen up and become harder to beat soon. 

He was not woeful in the cup final one bit.  He dug in manfully despite being doubled-up on by their two best players.  Bassie and Kent were constantly 2 on 1 versus Natty and he kept going and going and going.  If anything that match showed his mental side which I hope stands him in good stead for ironing out some kinks in his game and coming through a tough spell.

 

We played a system where his cover was often Simms in that game!  Not saying it was wrong but it was a tough gig!!!!

[We_are_the_Hearts]

3 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

He was not woeful in the cup final one bit.  He dug in manfully despite being doubled-up on by their two best players.  Bassie and Kent were constantly 2 on 1 versus Natty and he kept going and going and going.  If anything that match showed his mental side which I hope stands him in good stead for ironing out some kinks in his game and coming through a tough spell.

 

We played a system where his cover was often Simms in that game!  Not saying it was wrong but it was a tough gig!!!!

His cover was Souttar who kept having to come over. His first job is to defend and so far he has been way short on that front. In fact can’t remember having a full back that is so easy beat in a one on one. I want him to do well, like every Hearts player, but so far has not been good enough. 

[Mr Elwood P]

13 minutes ago, We_are_the_Hearts said:

He made loads of mistakes last season when Halkett was playing and was woeful in the cup final. We al want him to succeed but he really needs to toughen up and become harder to beat soon. 

Think Calvin Bassey kept him pretty quiet in the Cup Final. He won't be up against many players of that quality during his time at Hearts.

[Lido]

15 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

He was not woeful in the cup final one bit.  He dug in manfully despite being doubled-up on by their two best players.  Bassie and Kent were constantly 2 on 1 versus Natty and he kept going and going and going.  If anything that match showed his mental side which I hope stands him in good stead for ironing out some kinks in his game and coming through a tough spell.

 

We played a system where his cover was often Simms in that game!  Not saying it was wrong but it was a tough gig!!!!

Yes that's how I remember it. Had a hard time when those two were running at him. Coped reasonably well but understandably was toiling now and again. Certainly wasn't our worst player that day.

[DETTY29]

24 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

He was not woeful in the cup final one bit.  He dug in manfully despite being doubled-up on by their two best players.  Bassie and Kent were constantly 2 on 1 versus Natty and he kept going and going and going.  If anything that match showed his mental side which I hope stands him in good stead for ironing out some kinks in his game and coming through a tough spell.

 

We played a system where his cover was often Simms in that game!  Not saying it was wrong but it was a tough gig!!!!

My recollection too.

 

He gave the ball away in the lead up to the 2nd goal when pushing on.  I haven't watched the game again and even the few minutes highlights I've seen the loss of possession isn't shown for me to be able to see how far up the pitch we were and if it's a real 'blame' situation.

 

 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

Funny that we were hammered 0-0 after 90 mins in that cup final. Appreciate a cup final goes to the full distance but over 90 mins last season we drew with the Huns teice, beat Celtic to once and we’re arguably a shite Boyce lick of paint pen away from at least another draw with them.

 

Had much worse seasons against them 

[King prawn]

Perhaps it’s been mentioned already but they played last night in the league and won 3-0. Tuesday-Thursday is quite a short gap!

[TheBigO]

Just now, King prawn said:

Perhaps it’s been mentioned already but they played last night in the league and won 3-0. Tuesday-Thursday is quite a short gap!

Pretty mental their league making them do this tbf, I'd be furious if we had to play Mon-Thurs (I know the same as Sun-Wed which is pretty normal, but I'd expect our league to allow us to at least play at a weekend previous to a euro match).  As for fatigue, wouldn't count on it.  It's 3 full days which is pretty norm, they're at home, game looks like it was a cake walk.

 

We need to be on it.  Get right in their faces from the off pls

[Agentjambo]

8 minutes ago, King prawn said:

Perhaps it’s been mentioned already but they played last night in the league and won 3-0. Tuesday-Thursday is quite a short gap!

They will be mentally and physically fatigued for Thursday then 😏

[Bazzas right boot]

3 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

1 who's aging and has been expected to fill in at RCB.

 

Sibbick and Atkinson aren't RBs. Anyone in our squad could play there, doesn't make them a RB or a viable option.

 

 

They are all right sided players that play rwb or rb.

 

We don't need to make problems up. 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

17 minutes ago, King prawn said:

Perhaps it’s been mentioned already but they played last night in the league and won 3-0. Tuesday-Thursday is quite a short gap!

 

 

Same as Sun-wed. 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

2 hours ago, Rudi cant fail said:

I’d be ok with that if his attacking abilities outweighed his lack of def since abilities but they don’t. Take Zurich for example, wins a pen and then at fault for their two goals. His positional sense and lack of awareness let’s him down big time. 

 

He wasn't at mistake for both goals. 

 

A proper ch coming from deep deals with the header, if anything Aki shouldnt be peddling back defending that. 

 

1 of 3 Centre halves must drop deeper, meet and attack that. 

 

Basic stuff Tbh. 

[Taffin]

11 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

They are all right sided players that play rwb or rb.

 

We don't need to make problems up. 

 

 

 

Oh that's good, I thought we had a problem defensively on the right hand side. Looking forward to the clean sheet on Thursday and us being really tight on the right 👍

[TheBigO]

10 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

He wasn't at mistake for both goals. 

 

A proper ch coming from deep deals with the header, if anything Aki shouldnt be peddling back defending that. 

 

1 of 3 Centre halves must drop deeper, meet and attack that. 

 

Basic stuff Tbh. 

You're completely right, he was far too narrow and a strong CH team have that line properly spaced and ready to attack the ball.  However.... in finding himself in that position, he needs to be stronger.  He needs to be stronger in general.  There was one v Basaksehir where there was a ball in to the box and he needed to put his left foot through it and send it 60 yards anywhere away, but instead he kind of flicked it with the outside of his right boot and was lucky it hit off their player, and go to safety - that player or the other who had overloaded could easily have profited.  He does this kind of thing a lot.

 

You know I'm not having a go at Natty, there's just moments like this and that header v Zurich he needs to get right in a safety first, be strong, be decisive kind of way to be able to play in our defence beyond games v bottom 6 teams, which is surely where he wants to be, including in international football.

[Rudi cant fail]

11 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

He wasn't at mistake for both goals. 

 

A proper ch coming from deep deals with the header, if anything Aki shouldnt be peddling back defending that. 

 

1 of 3 Centre halves must drop deeper, meet and attack that. 

 

Basic stuff Tbh. 

Maybe not directly at fault but his poor defending played a big part in both goals and that can’t be denied. 
 

I don’t agree that he shouldn’t be peddling back either as he as a wingback\fullback should be tracking back when his team is under pressure and his man is on the attack

[King prawn]

29 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

Same as Sun-wed. 

 

 

For some reason I thought today was Wednesday ..

[The Treasurer]

4 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

Not sure is a sudden concern, it's looked that way since Souttar left and Smith became one of the options to cover at rcb.. We've been woefully short at RCB and RWB if we play a 3, and woefully short of cover at RB in a 4.

Smith has always been an option for CB, mainly because any time he has played there he has been very good 

[tian447]

54 minutes ago, King prawn said:

Perhaps it’s been mentioned already but they played last night in the league and won 3-0. Tuesday-Thursday is quite a short gap!

 

Don't think that will be a massive factor to be honest, 72 hours is plenty recovery time for sports or running.  People who do it for a living will be eating loads, taking all sorts of supplements, and live in comfort enough to rest properly over that time.  Their club will have staff dedicated to making sure that the players recover properly. 

 

You could go out and do a 10k run, and have no problem doing another one 3 days later. You could easily do it the very next day, or every day for a week without much hassle before it starts to take it's toll on you. Players cover similar distances on the pitch, and it sounds like they strolled it last night, so doubt they'll be that knackered. 

[King prawn]

23 minutes ago, tian447 said:

 

Don't think that will be a massive factor to be honest, 72 hours is plenty recovery time for sports or running.  People who do it for a living will be eating loads, taking all sorts of supplements, and live in comfort enough to rest properly over that time.  Their club will have staff dedicated to making sure that the players recover properly. 

 

You could go out and do a 10k run, and have no problem doing another one 3 days later. You could easily do it the very next day, or every day for a week without much hassle before it starts to take it's toll on you. Players cover similar distances on the pitch, and it sounds like they strolled it last night, so doubt they'll be that knackered. 

Thought it was Wednesday today  in which case that would’ve been quite a short turn around - but 72 hours is as you and others have said, quite normal. 

[jambopilms]

31 minutes ago, tian447 said:

 

Don't think that will be a massive factor to be honest, 72 hours is plenty recovery time for sports or running.  People who do it for a living will be eating loads, taking all sorts of supplements, and live in comfort enough to rest properly over that time.  Their club will have staff dedicated to making sure that the players recover properly. 

 

You could go out and do a 10k run, and have no problem doing another one 3 days later. You could easily do it the very next day, or every day for a week without much hassle before it starts to take it's toll on you. Players cover similar distances on the pitch, and it sounds like they strolled it last night, so doubt they'll be that knackered. 

You might want to tell Robbie that.

[NB GIN]

He is over thinking every game that’s his biggest problem.
Put the best 11 on the pitch and play the best we can. 
 

 

[We_are_the_Hearts]

11 minutes ago, NB GIN said:

He is over thinking every game that’s his biggest problem.
Put the best 11 on the pitch and play the best we can. 
 

 

Yip, players can get a rest when they are injured or suspended

[We_are_the_Hearts]

Although these Sports scientists don’t help, slightest wee thing and folk are out these days. And over cautious on returns