****The All In One LGBTQ+ & Related Issues Mega Thread****

[doctor jambo]

4 minutes ago, cazzyy said:

 

True .

look at stats on criminality, drug use, mental illness of all kinds, suicide when the father is absent.

then get back to me.

Look at the cases recently- there is one figure missing in the press releases etc.

Guess who?

 

[cazzyy]

2 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

It’s true though.

Humans cannot change sex.

Gender is a performative stereotype that you can change at will, and change back if you wish.

gender and sex are different.

One sex has asked that it be protected from the other , regardless of its gender.

The other sex has asked that it’s gender be recognised as its sex, and women have said “no”.

Meanwhile people have been telling children , who don’t really understand the difference that they can change sex- all they have to do is take life changing treatments they cannot consent to and then they are that thing , when they are not .

its a con

 

That's your opinion (and others).

 

If humans can't change sex why does every dictionary have a definition for the word transsexual?

 

 

[cazzyy]

4 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

True .

look at stats on criminality, drug use, mental illness of all kinds, suicide when the father is absent.

then get back to me.

Look at the cases recently- there is one figure missing in the press releases etc.

Guess who?

 

 

You're away down a road that I'm not entertaining. Bye.

[doctor jambo]

1 minute ago, cazzyy said:

 

That's your opinion (and others).

 

If humans can't change sex why does every dictionary have a definition for the word transsexual?

 

 

It’s not my opinion , it’s an absolute fact.

Transsexual is another term coined to describe people who undergo surgical treatment to give the superficial appearance of the opposite sex.

It does not, however change the sex.

It gives the appearance only.

No more than that .

[doctor jambo]

3 minutes ago, cazzyy said:

 

You're away down a road that I'm not entertaining. Bye.

Facts and evidence are awkward things in this debate are they not ?

Hence the furious back pedalling of Mermaids, stonewall, tatchell et al.

Cass introduced cold, hard, objective facts.

And off they scuttle .

only one side is presenting any evidence and asking for safeguards.

The other , when presented with facts turns tail, or screams and screams

[JDK2020]

27 minutes ago, cazzyy said:

 

This might or might not be news to you (and others) but despite what the rabid media and 2 or 3 on here would have you believe, not all transgenders are "vulgar bullies out to stomp all over everybody else's rights ..........

 

I dare say you are correct but there seems to be no shortage of footage and text showing some nasty pieces of work intimidating and abusing people they don't agree with. Sounds like it's not what you wanted to hear but it's the impression I've gathered as a casual viewer.

[cazzyy]

7 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Facts and evidence are awkward things in this debate are they not ?

Hence the furious back pedalling of Mermaids, stonewall, tatchell et al.

Cass introduced cold, hard, objective facts.

And off they scuttle .

only one side is presenting any evidence and asking for safeguards.

The other , when presented with facts turns tail, or screams and screams

 

Nobody can dispute it's a fact, but it's crass in the extreme to simply state that they need their dads.

Try telling the abused child who has now turned to crime that they just needed their abusive dad.

 

[cazzyy]

5 minutes ago, JDK2020 said:

 

I dare say you are correct but there seems to be no shortage of footage and text showing some nasty pieces of work intimidating and abusing people they don't agree with. Sounds like it's not what you wanted to hear but it's the impression I've gathered as a casual viewer.

 

Of course there's no shortage of it, because there's plenty lesbians and gays desperately trying to protect their dwindling numbers. I suspect that if transgenders were allowed to get on with living life the way they want, things would calm down immeasurably and there wouldn't be mass rape being commited in women's toilets and changing rooms. No more than at present anyway.

I do agree with the doctor that kids should not have any non reversible treatments though.

[Taffin]

43 minutes ago, cazzyy said:

 

Not sure what you mean.

It is against the law to discriminate against anyone because of gender reassignment. What's conflicting?

 

What if someone's religion or belief doesn't recognise/respect etc one of the others on the list? To force them into a uniform way of thinking is discrimination against a protected characteristic. It's a bit paradoxical to me.

 

Basically as long as your religion and beliefs fit what we want, fine. If they don't, your fair game?

 

A less emotive one would be say you don't believe in gender...you therefore don't believe someone can have it reassigned. Forcing someone to recognise that is discriminatory against their beliefs...which is also a protected characteristic. More emotive ones obviously relate to religion and their views on various others that appear on the list.

[cazzyy]

28 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

It’s not my opinion , it’s an absolute fact.

Transsexual is another term coined to describe people who undergo surgical treatment to give the superficial appearance of the opposite sex.

It does not, however change the sex.

It gives the appearance only.

No more than that .

 

Again, your opinion. Here's a different one.

 

https://www.issm.info/sexual-health-qa/what-is-the-difference-between-transsexual-and-transgender

[doctor jambo]

10 minutes ago, cazzyy said:

 

Nobody can dispute it's a fact, but it's crass in the extreme to simply state that they need their dads.

Try telling the abused child who has now turned to crime that they just needed their abusive dad.

 

Small numbers.

Compared to the vast number of kids harmed by loss of a father figure.

Loss of the father figure is instrumental in causing low self esteem, self harm, mental illness, crime, drug use , promiscuity , criminality , emotional instability, academic failure, neurodevelopmental abnormality. 
facts can be unpleasant things for some, but it doesn’t mean you can hide from them and pretend that they are not so.

[JDK2020]

4 minutes ago, cazzyy said:

 

Of course there's no shortage of it, because there's plenty lesbians and gays desperately trying to protect their dwindling numbers. I suspect that if transgenders were allowed to get on with living life the way they want, things would calm down immeasurably and there wouldn't be mass rape being commited in women's toilets and changing rooms. No more than at present anyway.

I do agree with the doctor that kids should not have any non reversible treatments though.

 

I'm not quite sure what point you are trying to make, or even if you are at the ham, but are you seriously claiming that lesbians and gays are subject to "dwindling numbers"?

 

The problem seems to be that transgenders living the way they want means them being allowed to enter places where others fear that they are not what they purport to be, and fear the consequences.

Isn't that the whole concern of those like J.K. Rowling, or am I missing something? In that case things are hardly just going to calm down immeasurably.

i don't even know what to say to the comment about mass rapes. 

[cazzyy]

6 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

What if someone's religion or belief doesn't recognise/respect etc one of the others on the list? To force them into a uniform way of thinking is discrimination against a protected characteristic. It's a bit paradoxical to me.

 

Basically as long as your religion and beliefs fit what we want, fine. If they don't, your fair game?

 

A less emotive one would be say you don't believe in gender...you therefore don't believe someone can have it reassigned. Forcing someone to recognise that is discriminatory against their beliefs...which is also a protected characteristic. More emotive ones obviously relate to religion and their views on various others that appear on the list.

 

I think you're missing the point. You don't have to believe in any of those things, nobody can force you to do that. But you can't discriminate someone over it. 

I don't believe in God and that's fine but if I didn't employ someone because they believe in God then I'm discriminating them, same with transgenders or anything else on the list.

Apologies if I've got that wrong.

[doctor jambo]

1 minute ago, cazzyy said:

 

Again, your opinion. Here's a different one.

 

https://www.issm.info/sexual-health-qa/what-is-the-difference-between-transsexual-and-transgender

It’s exactly as I said .

only they suggest that surgery changes your actual DNA and allows you to produce gametes of the opposite sex, and change every cell of your body at chromosomal level.

Oh, no, it doesn’t . It produces an utter nonsense that fails

to even explain trans sexual.

Amything that tells you that changing sex is possible, is a lie .

[cazzyy]

Just now, JDK2020 said:

 

I'm not quite sure what point you are trying to make, or even if you are at the ham, but are you seriously claiming that lesbians and gays are subject to "dwindling numbers"?

 

The problem seems to be that transgenders living the way they want means them being allowed to enter places where others fear that they are not what they purport to be, and fear the consequences.

Isn't that the whole concern of those like J.K. Rowling, or am I missing something? In that case things are hardly just going to calm down immeasurably.

i don't even know what to say to the comment about mass rapes. 

 

Ask judy3names if he's worried about dwindling lesbian and gay numbers, if he's honest (he's said it many times before) then you'll get my point.

 

So it's ok for this person to use women's "safe spaces"? This is a "woman" according to some.

 

[cazzyy]

1 minute ago, doctor jambo said:

It’s exactly as I said .

only they suggest that surgery changes your actual DNA and allows you to produce gametes of the opposite sex, and change every cell of your body at chromosomal level.

Oh, no, it doesn’t . It produces an utter nonsense that fails

to even explain trans sexual.

Amything that tells you that changing sex is possible, is a lie .

 

In your opinion.

[cazzyy]

6 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Small numbers.

Compared to the vast number of kids harmed by loss of a father figure.

Loss of the father figure is instrumental in causing low self esteem, self harm, mental illness, crime, drug use , promiscuity , criminality , emotional instability, academic failure, neurodevelopmental abnormality. 
facts can be unpleasant things for some, but it doesn’t mean you can hide from them and pretend that they are not so.

 

Yes the loss of a father does all those things but that ignores the reasons why there is no father.

[cazzyy]

I'm leaving this thread now, it's a complicated and emotive subject that causes too much division.

[JDK2020]

4 minutes ago, cazzyy said:

 

Ask judy3names if he's worried about dwindling lesbian and gay numbers, if he's honest (he's said it many times before) then you'll get my point.

 

So it's ok for this person to use women's "safe spaces"? This is a "woman" according to some.

 

 

Lol, I don't mind saying I haven't a clue what point you are trying to make.

Your stance seems to be all over the place from one post to another, but hey, good luck to you.

[doctor jambo]

6 minutes ago, cazzyy said:

 

Ask judy3names if he's worried about dwindling lesbian and gay numbers, if he's honest (he's said it many times before) then you'll get my point.

 

So it's ok for this person to use women's "safe spaces"? This is a "woman" according to some.

 

If = xx, then yes = woman.

 

[Taffin]

11 minutes ago, cazzyy said:

 

I think you're missing the point. You don't have to believe in any of those things, nobody can force you to do that. But you can't discriminate someone over it. 

I don't believe in God and that's fine but if I didn't employ someone because they believe in God then I'm discriminating them, same with transgenders or anything else on the list.

Apologies if I've got that wrong.

 

Some people may find adults believing in a deity to be mentally unstable, and that would be their belief, so surely to force them not to believe that would be discriminatory against them?

 

Similarly if one refused to recognise someone as their 'reassigned gender' is that discrimination? Would forcing them to go against their belief be discriminatory?

 

I appreciate just saying you believe something isn't justification for any opinions to be respected...but both of the above have pretty robust scientific reasoning.

 

[Taffin]

15 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said:

When you come to think of it, it’s pretty messed up to dress up and pretend to be a member of the opposite sex and then demand other people play your game. 

 

To even think that the sexes have some kind of recognised uniform is messed up. I probably dress differently from you, and those in the middle east definitely do. It's bonkers stuff and all just cultural and human small mindedness.

 

Those proclaiming to be the most open minded are, imo, the ones actually being most reductive. What's a man? What's a woman? Are the all the same?

Edited April 10 by Taffin

[John Findlay]

1 hour ago, cazzyy said:

And absolute bollocks too.

Are you a father?

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Not entirely sure what you mean by "compelled speech".

 

It’s forced use of certain words / descriptors like having to refer to someone of one sex as the opposite sex because they say they are . Or using words like 

“Cis “ which is another pile of poo too . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

Not calling someone what they want is not discriminating .

What is gender reassignment?

Gender identity and gender reassignment are different things .

Sex and gender are different things .

You can change gender many times over a lifetime , but that does not grant access to single sex spaces.

You have changed gender , not sex, so there is no discrimination.

As I’ve said time and again on this the concept of “ gender “ is a load of stereotypical nonsense which ascribes certain behaviours / qualities /looks etc to a sex . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

It’s true though.

Humans cannot change sex.

Gender is a performative stereotype that you can change at will, and change back if you wish.

gender and sex are different.

One sex has asked that it be protected from the other , regardless of its gender.

The other sex has asked that it’s gender be recognised as its sex, and women have said “no”.

Meanwhile people have been telling children , who don’t really understand the difference that they can change sex- all they have to do is take life changing treatments they cannot consent to and then they are that thing , when they are not .

its a con

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

It’s not my opinion , it’s an absolute fact.

Transsexual is another term coined to describe people who undergo surgical treatment to give the superficial appearance of the opposite sex.

It does not, however change the sex.

It gives the appearance only.

No more than that .

Exactly 👍 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, JDK2020 said:

 

I dare say you are correct but there seems to be no shortage of footage and text showing some nasty pieces of work intimidating and abusing people they don't agree with. Sounds like it's not what you wanted to hear but it's the impression I've gathered as a casual viewer.

You only have to look at the events on Saturday afternoon in Edinburgh to see a mass mob attempting to stop women talking about the erosion of their rights and very definition of being a women . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Absolutely dangerous , vile woman . It’s not about “ trans people “ it’s about children who are not able to consent so the age of 25 is perfectly reasonable . 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 10 by JudyJudyJudy

[doctor jambo]

7 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Absolutely dangerous , vile woman . It’s not about “ trans people “ it’s about children who are not able to consent so the age of 25 is perfectly reasonable . 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure, but will try and ensure that rapists below the age of 25 won’t go to jail as they can heal and learn.

[Hmfc1965]

10 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

Some people may find adults believing in a deity to be mentally unstable, and that would be their belief, so surely to force them not to believe that would be discriminatory against them?

 

Similarly if one refused to recognise someone as their 'reassigned gender' is that discrimination? Would forcing them to go against their belief be discriminatory?

 

I appreciate just saying you believe something isn't justification for any opinions to be respected...but both of the above have pretty robust scientific reasoning.

 

They can believe that if they want.

What they can't do is tell their Christian or Muslim colleagues that they are mentally unstable.

Similar with the gender thing.

 

[JDK2020]

8 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Absolutely dangerous , vile woman . It’s not about “ trans people “ it’s about children who are not able to consent so the age of 25 is perfectly reasonable . 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That ****ing idiot is not the slightest bit interested in Green issues, she's manipulating the system to help push the agenda of a limited interest obsession and to Hell with the rest of society. And, she's not alone within the Scottish Green movement. God knows what damage these people are doing to young minds. 

[doctor jambo]

11 minutes ago, Hmfc1965 said:

They can believe that if they want.

What they can't do is tell their Christian or Muslim colleagues that they are mentally unstable.

Similar with the gender thing.

 

I dont think there are many people calling their colleagues mentally unstable.

If there were an employer would be obliged to take action, those kind of things are verboten and already covered by employment law.

Everyone at work needs to make attempts to "fit in" and not cause distress to colleagues.

Work places have dress policy.

Appropriate conduct guidance etc.

I dress and speak differently at work- is that too much to ask of everyone?

I think most people are trying to find a way through this despite pressure groups.

Trying to find accommodations.

Work places accomodate, say, Islamic dress and prayers , though when lines are crossed and such beliefs impinge on others then action is taken.

gender is the same. 

when people stray from being something to be activist, that gets a bit much.

hence why, say some christians start imposing their views on patients they are dealt with rapidly and sometimes fired, and rightly so.

you are not at work to ram your beliefs down others throats

 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

I dont think there are many people calling their colleagues mentally unstable.

If there were an employer would be obliged to take action, those kind of things are verboten and already covered by employment law.

Everyone at work needs to make attempts to "fit in" and not cause distress to colleagues.

Work places have dress policy.

Appropriate conduct guidance etc.

I dress and speak differently at work- is that too much to ask of everyone?

I think most people are trying to find a way through this despite pressure groups.

Trying to find accommodations.

Work places accomodate, say, Islamic dress and prayers , though when lines are crossed and such beliefs impinge on others then action is taken.

gender is the same. 

when people stray from being something to be activist, that gets a bit much.

hence why, say some christians start imposing their views on patients they are dealt with rapidly and sometimes fired, and rightly so.

you are not at work to ram your beliefs down others throats

 

 

 

This .

 

if people want to believe in whatever , that’s fine with me . But if their believes are then forced on to others I then have an issue . 
 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

29 minutes ago, JDK2020 said:

 

That ****ing idiot is not the slightest bit interested in Green issues, she's manipulating the system to help push the agenda of a limited interest obsession and to Hell with the rest of society. And, she's not alone within the Scottish Green movement. God knows what damage these people are doing to young minds. 

She and her party have ruined any credibility the SNP had . If I were an Indy or SNP supporter I’d be raging . However the SNP made a deal with the devil to stay I power and its backfired spectacularly . 

[Taffin]

59 minutes ago, Hmfc1965 said:

They can believe that if they want.

What they can't do is tell their Christian or Muslim colleagues that they are mentally unstable.

Similar with the gender thing.

 

 

So you'd have to hire someone they thought was mentally unstable? Discrimination is often not a vocalised action...but to say that's not allowed is surely discrimination against that other person's beliefs. I don't mean they are anti-religion rather that they fundamentally do not believe that are all knowing seeing gods. If you don't believe that how can you in good will trust the logic of those who do? Would you hire someone if they said they believed the earth was flat in an interview?

 

I'm not arguing in favour of a particular stance. I just feel trying to protect characteristics that are just beliefs and opinions is impossible as you'll almost always have to favour one person's over another. It's paradoxical to me.

Edited April 11 by Taffin

[Taffin]

29 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

I dont think there are many people calling their colleagues mentally unstable.

If there were an employer would be obliged to take action, those kind of things are verboten and already covered by employment law.

Everyone at work needs to make attempts to "fit in" and not cause distress to colleagues.

Work places have dress policy.

Appropriate conduct guidance etc.

I dress and speak differently at work- is that too much to ask of everyone?

I think most people are trying to find a way through this despite pressure groups.

Trying to find accommodations.

Work places accomodate, say, Islamic dress and prayers , though when lines are crossed and such beliefs impinge on others then action is taken.

gender is the same. 

when people stray from being something to be activist, that gets a bit much.

hence why, say some christians start imposing their views on patients they are dealt with rapidly and sometimes fired, and rightly so.

you are not at work to ram your beliefs down others throats

 

 

 

 

This is a great post and how I feel; I just think the protected beliefs thing is a bit conflicting is all.

 

If a male came and asked you to go on the pill would you prescribe it? What if we arrived at a place where to not do so would be seen as discrimination, how would you feel?

Edited April 11 by Taffin

[doctor jambo]

37 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

This is a great post and how I feel; I just think the protected beliefs thing is a bit conflicting is all.

 

If a male came and asked you to go on the pill would you prescribe it? What if we arrived at a place where to not do so would be seen as discrimination, how would you feel?

Is is medically indicated?

if not then it’s a no.

i prescribe based on evidence .

Not want .

The first rule is “do no harm”

You can want something, but not need it .

Just because you think something does not make it so.

The Cass review worked on evidence.

As is demanded by every other branch of medicine.

It’s why female genital mutilation is banned.

Where a belief leads to procedures that are irreversible being performed on minors .

Sex surgery on kids / chemotherapy on kids is the same thing.

A belief system intruding into medicine is not a great thing

[JudyJudyJudy]

Shero 

 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Is is medically indicated?

if not then it’s a no.

i prescribe based on evidence .

Not want .

The first rule is “do no harm”

You can want something, but not need it .

Just because you think something does not make it so.

The Cass review worked on evidence.

As is demanded by every other branch of medicine.

It’s why female genital mutilation is banned.

Where a belief leads to procedures that are irreversible being performed on minors .

Sex surgery on kids / chemotherapy on kids is the same thing.

A belief system intruding into medicine is not a great thing

This 

[JudyJudyJudy]

And another 

 

 

Edited April 11 by JudyJudyJudy

[doctor jambo]

I note with some interest that the debate as it was has now vanished.

The TRA have melted away in the face of insurmountable evidence.

It was always coming.

That so many merely fell into line is appalling 

Those who have allowed their children to be experimented on have no excuse .

You abrogated parental responsibility and passed it to charlatans.

your children, your responsibility .

If you had looked you would have seen.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

I note with some interest that the debate as it was has now vanished.

The TRA have melted away in the face of insurmountable evidence.

It was always coming.

That so many merely fell into line is appalling 

Those who have allowed their children to be experimented on have no excuse .

You abrogated parental responsibility and passed it to charlatans.

your children, your responsibility .

If you had looked you would have seen.

 

This 

[Hmfc1965]

47 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

This 

Great.  Does that mean you'll stop posting about it.

[Hmfc1965]

5 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

I dont think there are many people calling their colleagues mentally unstable.

If there were an employer would be obliged to take action, those kind of things are verboten and already covered by employment law.

Everyone at work needs to make attempts to "fit in" and not cause distress to colleagues.

Work places have dress policy.

Appropriate conduct guidance etc.

I dress and speak differently at work- is that too much to ask of everyone?

I think most people are trying to find a way through this despite pressure groups.

Trying to find accommodations.

Work places accomodate, say, Islamic dress and prayers , though when lines are crossed and such beliefs impinge on others then action is taken.

gender is the same. 

when people stray from being something to be activist, that gets a bit much.

hence why, say some christians start imposing their views on patients they are dealt with rapidly and sometimes fired, and rightly so.

you are not at work to ram your beliefs down others throats

 

 

 

I don't disagree with any of that but it doesn't chime with the post I replied to.

[Hmfc1965]

4 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

So you'd have to hire someone they thought was mentally unstable? Discrimination is often not a vocalised action...but to say that's not allowed is surely discrimination against that other person's beliefs. I don't mean they are anti-religion rather that they fundamentally do not believe that are all knowing seeing gods. If you don't believe that how can you in good will trust the logic of those who do? Would you hire someone if they said they believed the earth was flat in an interview?

 

I'm not arguing in favour of a particular stance. I just feel trying to protect characteristics that are just beliefs and opinions is impossible as you'll almost always have to favour one person's over another. It's paradoxical to me.

It would depend on whether the perceived mental instability affected their ability to do the job.

In truth the real problematic opinion there is the person who believes everyone with religious views is mentally unstable.

There's also the question of where you draw that line.

What about not hiring Unionists or Nationalists because by definition they're mentally deluded?

[doctor jambo]

45 minutes ago, Hmfc1965 said:

It would depend on whether the perceived mental instability affected their ability to do the job.

In truth the real problematic opinion there is the person who believes everyone with religious views is mentally unstable.

There's also the question of where you draw that line.

What about not hiring Unionists or Nationalists because by definition they're mentally deluded?

Nobody is encouraging discrimination.

in any form.

that is illegal and reprehensible .

I wouldn’t not hire anyone because of their beliefs outside of work.

if they brought that belief to work and made it intrusive, that’s a disciplinary issue and policies are in place for that .

I would hire a trans candidate - why not?

As long as their presentation was in line with dress code and they were not using the work to push their views it’s all good.

Everyone has rights .

everyone.

no more , no less.

all our toilets are single rooms. 
we employ a mix of men, women, various religions and sexual orientation with no issues .

anyone disrupts that and its jotters time

- it’s a team

[doctor jambo]

Also of interest is the fact that trans women  are vastly more likely to be sex offenders than men are.

That stone cold fact needs explained before transwomen enter female spaces

 

[doctor jambo]

Three times more likely than men, 

nowhere near the levels of the sex they identify with

[JudyJudyJudy]

15 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Three times more likely than men, 

nowhere near the levels of the sex they identify with

An inconvenient truth