energy prices

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

With around 50% of our gas being imported we'd still be under pressure from market conditions, but nowhere near to the degree where our energy costs are up 215% and the EU countries who are far more reliant on imported gas are not suffering the same increases. They're experiencing fractions of it. 

 

 

That might be because their governments have already provided much more direct help to their populations and capped the rises, Italy something like 20 odd %, in the UK it's 215% because our government have done feck all like that.

Just last week or so another poster was asking why the UK is paying etc etc etc, and I told him that I had posted a link to the FT or something like that which had a chart showing the level of support each European country had given and the UK was quite far down the list of support it's given to it's population.  However as I also said to the other poster, that's all debt which the likes of France, Germany, Italy et al are adding to their national debt, which will most likely have to be paid back at some point.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, Captain Sausage said:

BEIS is a dysfunctional joke of an organisation. I’m sure he will use his experience as Brexit efficiencies minister to whip those scallywags into shape

 

Probably worth clarifying a couple of points. 
 

OFGEM, the energy regulator, are there to regulate energy suppliers. In theory, to protect consumers. OFGEM cover companies like Eon, Centrica and SSE. These companies are at the mercy of the wholesale market. The cap was designed to stop them taking the piss with charges for consumers, it was not designed for sustained price pressure on the wholesale market. OFGEM we’re absolutely asleep at the wheel but there’s no quick fix for the regulator here.

 

All those small companies that went bust? It was because they didn’t spend money to hedge future gas prices and when the price took off, they simply ran out of money. The bigger companies have more sophisticated (read: expensive) hedging strategies which have protected them a bit from the wholesale market, but they’re screaming now because they simply cannot afford the 3-5k per consumer cost per year. 
 

The government has three choices:

- nationalise the energy suppliers

- do nothing

- subsidise the energy suppliers

 

The people who are making stupid money off the current situation are the energy producers. While Centrica and SSE have production arms, these are chicken shit when compared to Shell or bp. It’s the producers who are exposed directly to wholesale prices that are coining it in at present. As they work directly with the market, there is very little regulation of them from a financial angle (above and beyond regular FCA requirements). They are regulated via OGA, BEIS, NTSA, EA, etc but these are predominantly to prevent emissions and ensure accurate reporting of throughput. 
 

It’s interesting that a lot of politicians across Europe were slow to react to Russia and questioned whether people were willing to support Ukraine, even if it hit them in the pocket. They didn’t do a very good job at articulating what ‘hitting them in the pocket’ really meant. What we see today is what it means. FWIW, I fully support all the work being done to protect Ukraine, but people should be aware it’s not happening for free. 

 

Exactly, there is a huge difference between energy providers and energy producers, unfortunately there are some folks who class them as all the same, and they ain't.  The energy providers, guys who you pay your bill to is making next to nothing on it as they are constrained by the price cap, whereas the energy producers, guys who dig it out of the ground, there is no price cap on them, hence why none of them have gone bust compared to around 30 energy providers in the last year or two.

 

The media doesn't help as they lazily just refer to them all, providers & producers, as energy companies, that's why there is a lot of confusion about.

[The Mighty Thor]

56 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

Small business?  I have a bad feeling that a lot of those will get fe@cked here.

What was it the current Prime Minister said?

 

oh aye '**** business'

[Victorian]

59 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

Not everyone will get protected here from the high energy prices.  

Who will take a hit?

The poor? Do not think so this time round.

The rich?  No that is for sure.

The middle classes?  Do not think so.

Small business?  I have a bad feeling that a lot of those will get fe@cked here.

 

Everyone gets clobbered if the business world suffers the type of battering that seems likely.  Lost economic supply = lost competition = relatively higher demand = prices go up.  More inflation.  More base rate interest.  Even the well off will start to suffer consequences eventually when their pension funds begin to be eroded and the property market recedes.

 

The world of business and commerce,  along with representatives such as the DTI and IOD could be the key to getting the junta to wake up.  This looks certain to be the worst economic landscape that businesses have ever faced.  By a magnitude.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Victorian

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, joondalupjambo said:

Not everyone will get protected here from the high energy prices.  

Who will take a hit?

The poor? Do not think so this time round.

The rich?  No that is for sure.

The middle classes?  Do not think so.

Small business?  I have a bad feeling that a lot of those will get fe@cked here.

 

I really hope that someone somewhere within the corridors of power will point out to the next PM that to not help small business, will result in a double wammy for the government in the form of reduced tax receipts in both income & business tax and increased welfare payments in the form of dole money, when the inevitable happens and many small businesses go to the wall.

 

It is absolutely crucial that small business' are helped, but just like with covid they won't be able to save everyone of them, but everything that can be done has to be done, to not would be absolutely criminal.

[Scallywag]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

SNP getting blamed for the crisis about to hit Shetland. I've heard it all now. One things for sure, we wouldn't be in this mess if we had rid ourselves of WM corruption 

Snp must do much more to help and start listening to island communities. There's been alot of talk of island proofing policies but no action.

 

You are absolutely right however this situation is Westminster fault.

[hughesie27]

Scottish Gas helping themselves to £440 from our direct debit this month.

[FWJ]

What confused me was when they said the “price cap will be £3549”.  Being so specific it sounds like that’s the maximum bill you’d get. 
 

It’s a bit more long-winded but it would make more sense (to me, anyway!) if they said the price per unit was capped and depending on how many units you used the average bill per house could be “around £3500”.

[Victorian]

12 minutes ago, FWJ said:

What confused me was when they said the “price cap will be £3549”.  Being so specific it sounds like that’s the maximum bill you’d get. 
 

It’s a bit more long-winded but it would make more sense (to me, anyway!) if they said the price per unit was capped and depending on how many units you used the average bill per house could be “around £3500”.

 

That's what is said.  Sometimes more clearly than other times.

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, hughesie27 said:

Scottish Gas helping themselves to £440 from our direct debit this month.

 

That's more than the price cap. I've been put on £312.69 (was £82) which is the new price cap. 

[Dazo]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

That's more than the price cap. I've been put on £312.69 (was £82) which is the new price cap. 

That jump doesn’t seem right if your current usage is only £82, unless you were underpaying ? Regardless the new price doesn’t kick in until the 1st of October. 

[hughesie27]

10 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

That's more than the price cap. I've been put on £312.69 (was £82) which is the new price cap. 

Yep, our usage over the last year was above average.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

54 minutes ago, FWJ said:

What confused me was when they said the “price cap will be £3549”.  Being so specific it sounds like that’s the maximum bill you’d get. 
 

It’s a bit more long-winded but it would make more sense (to me, anyway!) if they said the price per unit was capped and depending on how many units you used the average bill per house could be “around £3500”.

 

Yeh some of the media don't make it clear enough, that the price cap is for the average household usage.

We use below average, therefore we'll pay less than the £3549, maybe only a couple of hundred less but less nonetheless, equally if we used more than the average then we'd pay more than £3549.

[Victorian]

Media should maybe expand on typical examples of households who are in and around the average usage.  Size of house.  Occupants.  Central heating.  Average laundry energy usage.  Other household appliances usage.  Give people a picture of how these examples compare to their own houses.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Media should maybe expand on typical examples of households who are in and around the average usage.  Size of house.  Occupants.  Central heating.  Average laundry energy usage.  Other household appliances usage.  Give people a picture of how these examples compare to their own houses.

 

That would be useful.

[jack D and coke]

2 hours ago, hughesie27 said:

Scottish Gas helping themselves to £440 from our direct debit this month.

Jeez….

[Unknown user]

2 hours ago, hughesie27 said:

Scottish Gas helping themselves to £440 from our direct debit this month.

 

**** me ragged, that's rotten. We haven't even had the October rise yet and that's when usage rockets, 80% of domestic gas usage is between October and March.

 

Businesses are ****ed, workers are ****ed, non workers are ****ed.

[Irufushi]

£440 is ****ing disgusting. 
 

 

robbed blind. 

[ri Alban]

Edited September 1, 2022 by ri Alban

[FWJ]

2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

That's more than the price cap. I've been put on £312.69 (was £82) which is the new price cap. 

This is what confuses me. 
 

The price cap is per unit.  If you use fewer units than they estimate you’ll pay less than £312.69 - and if you use more you’ll pay more?

 

 

[Don Dan]

https://twitter.com/LiamThorpECHO/status/1565305304195252225?s=20&t=ytzotU3g5qCSEWmCY-l-iQ

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Imaman

[Dazo]

1 minute ago, FWJ said:

This is what confuses me. 
 

The price cap is per unit.  If you use fewer units than they estimate you’ll pay less than £312.69 - and if you use more you’ll pay more?

 

 

Exactly that. The price cap is based on average usage. I’m paying more. 😢

[Jambo-Jimbo]

3 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Exactly that. The price cap is based on average usage. I’m paying more. 😢

 

And I'm paying less, which goes to show that everybody/household will be different as it all depends upon how much energy you actually use and not so much whatever the price cap is set at.  The simple fact is the more energy you use the more you'll pay and the less you use the less you'll pay, based upon the average usage.

 

[Dazo]

1 minute ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

And I'm paying less, which goes to show that everybody/household will be different as it all depends upon how much energy you actually use and not so much whatever the price cap is set at.  The simple fact is the more energy you use the more you'll pay and the less you use the less you'll pay, based upon the average usage.

 

Absolutely but I’d have though that was fairly self explanatory to be honest. 

[hughesie27]

So heavy users (the more wealthy?) Will be pushing up the price for low level users (the less wealthy, small property users). Shock.

[Mikey1874]

3 hours ago, Dazo said:

That jump doesn’t seem right if your current usage is only £82, unless you were underpaying ? Regardless the new price doesn’t kick in until the 1st of October. 

 

Yes

 

I went from £85 (checked) to £154 in June.

 

I'm also on the British Gas fixed tariff so don't pay the October rise but being charged it.

 

Seems a bit random what they are charging. 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Mikey1874

[Jambo-Jimbo]

10 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Absolutely but I’d have though that was fairly self explanatory to be honest. 

 

Exactly, but there are still lots of people who are getting confused over the price cap and thinking that's the amount they'll be paying, when it is and always has been based upon how much each person/household uses.

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

3 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

So heavy users (the more wealthy?) Will be pushing up the price for low level users (the less wealthy, small property users). Shock.

 

How are thinking that heavy energy users push up the price for low energy users?

Heavy users will pay more as they use more energy.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

6 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Yes

 

I went from £85 (checked) to £154 in June.

 

I'm also on the British Gas fixed tariff so don't pay the October rise but being charged it.

 

Seems a bit random what they are charging. 

 

That does seem odd, as with you being on a fixed tariff the amount you pay by DD shouldn't go up as it's fixed for the duration of your contract.

I'd query that with BG tbh.

[Dazo]

18 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Yes

 

I went from £85 (checked) to £154 in June.

 

I'm also on the British Gas fixed tariff so don't pay the October rise but being charged it.

 

Seems a bit random what they are charging. 

Something clearly Isn’t right there Mikey. Your tariff is fixed you shouldn’t be going up anything. Again unless you’ve seriously underplayed your usage when you signed up. 

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, Dazo said:

Something clearly Isn’t right there Mikey. Your tariff is fixed you shouldn’t be going up anything. Again unless you’ve seriously underplayed your usage when you signed up. 

 

No just gave then meter readings.

 

Getting smart meters next week. Got double glazing last week.

 

I know I could phone them but wait a little to see how it goes. 

[jambopilms]

19 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

That does seem odd, as with you being on a fixed tariff the amount you pay by DD shouldn't go up as it's fixed for the duration of your contract.

I'd query that with BG tbh.

That's not true, you still pay for what you use, so if you use more you DD will go up.

Fixed tariff just means the amount they charge per unit is fixed for a period of time.

Edited September 1, 2022 by jambopilms

[hughesie27]

21 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

How are thinking that heavy energy users push up the price for low energy users?

Heavy users will pay more as they use more energy.

Is usage not used to calculate the price cap, along with the wholesale cost?

[hughesie27]

20 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

That does seem odd, as with you being on a fixed tariff the amount you pay by DD shouldn't go up as it's fixed for the duration of your contract.

I'd query that with BG tbh.

Having a fixed rate doesn't mean you can use as much as you want.

[Footballfirst]

28 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Yes

 

I went from £85 (checked) to £154 in June.

 

I'm also on the British Gas fixed tariff so don't pay the October rise but being charged it.

 

Seems a bit random what they are charging. 

If you were on a fixed tariff, then it wouldn't have gone up in June either. It's highly doubtful that you would get a new fixed tariff without paying over the odds for it (perhaps that is what you have accepted).

 

What you were/are paying is close to what I was/am now paying for my elec/gas. It was a fixed rate of £86 a month until it my deal ran out in May this year. That went up to £146 on the supplier's variable rate (based on the cap imposed in April).  I don't yet know what it will go up to in October (the 80% rise in the cap would make it over £260 based on my consumption).

[Jambo-Jimbo]

4 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Is usage not used to calculate the price cap, along with the wholesale cost?

 

The wholesale cost that's what determines how much the price cap will be, not usage, as far as I know.

 

2 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Having a fixed rate doesn't mean you can use as much as you want.

 

I understand that, but surely if you are on a fixed rate your DD's shouldn't nearly double during the contract period, if so what's the point on being on a fixed rate, unless there's been a mistake in the calculations at the start of the plan.

[Japan Jambo]

On 30/08/2022 at 18:15, hmfcbilly said:

Couldn't agree more. Bee  saying for weeks when discussing this with friends that i think this will be way worse than the financial crash 2008. I can't see restaurants, cafes, pubs and even takeaways surviving with the cost of gas and electricity. Like others have said, why can't the UK government nationalise the utilities? The French government have taken EDF back into public ownership, introduced a tariff shield to limit electricity to a 4% rise and froze gas prices at October 2021 levels. Granted its only in place until the end of this year for now but at least they are being pro active and trying to protect businesses and their citizens

 

It looked a really smart move at the time particularly as the expectation was that the price rise was a blip - now EDF are in trouble and suing the French government. Solutions are definitely needed and no question that the government is reacting way too slowly. Interesting proposals from OVO being touted this morning...

 

https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/EDF-sues-French-government-over-electricity-sales#:~:text=The state-controlled nuclear giant,market-level prices this year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62742303

[Cade]

Spaffer trying to pin the blame for this on Labour (because of course he is)

 

[Don Dan]

 

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, Cade said:

Spaffer trying to pin the blame for this on Labour (because of course he is)

 

[Dazo]

33 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

That's not true, you still pay for what you use, so if you use more you DD will go up.

Fixed tariff just means the amount they charge per unit is fixed for a period of time.

Ive never paid for what I use as I use it on a fixed tariff. My BBC annual usage is calculated in 12 equal monthly direct debits. Over pay in the summer, under in the winter and it evens itself out over the year. Even if he was paying as  he uses it shouldn’t be shooting up through the summer months. 

[jambopilms]

21 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Ive never paid for what I use as I use it on a fixed tariff. My BBC annual usage is calculated in 12 equal monthly direct debits. Over pay in the summer, under in the winter and it evens itself out over the year. Even if he was paying as  he uses it shouldn’t be shooting up through the summer months. 

You do pay for what you use. They estimate at the start of the year what you will pay each month. If you use more than the estimate your DD will go up. I'm guessing he has used more than his estimate so they have over compensated to make up the short fall.

[Don Dan]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

 

 

[Cruyff]

Boris Johnson - "If you spent £20 quid on a new kettle, you can save £10 quid a year on your energy bills".

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

3 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Boris Johnson - "If you spent £20 quid on a new kettle, you can save £10 quid a year on your energy bills".

 

 

 

And if Truss gets in and she cuts VAT by 5% the kettle will only cost £19, happy days.

[Cruyff]

2 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

And if Truss gets in and she cuts VAT by 5% the kettle will only cost £19, happy days.

saving of a quid. Wise words from our great leader. 

[Cruyff]

incredible. 

[The Mighty Thor]

28 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Boris Johnson - "If you spent £20 quid on a new kettle, you can save £10 quid a year on your energy bills".

 

 

Its just a game to them. 

 

Spaffer couldn't give a shiny shite now as he'll be on the £100k a time speaker's circuit. 

[jack D and coke]

2 hours ago, Imaman said:

 

It’s hilarious when they try to act like normal people it really is  

[Cruyff]

7 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Its just a game to them. 

 

Spaffer couldn't give a shiny shite now as he'll be on the £100k a time speaker's circuit. 

Exactly. He probably thinks it's hilarious. Yet, there'll be people on here that are thick enough to have voted for him and his scumbag mates.