energy prices

[Victorian]

So there's been increasing commentary that she's going to do a whole range of things that she said she wasn't going to do over the past few weeks.  While that was expected,  what a horrendous charade it's been.  A small bunch of mugs nodding along at the red meat promises and textbook dogma.  One can only hope that many of them end up feeling like con trick victims when they don't get the promises that mugged off their votes.  Inevitably the same people will end up nodding their support towards the stuff they were told were the wrong policies.  A pointless charade of idiots and the gormless.

[Dennis Reynolds]

When even Farage is saying the state needs to step in, you know it's bad.

 

A freeze on April's price cap is what I'm hoping for. My local is planning on closing at the end of the year unless something is done ☹️

[Dazo]

4 minutes ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

When even Farage is saying the state needs to step in, you know it's bad.

 

A freeze on April's price cap is what I'm hoping for. My local is planning on closing at the end of the year unless something is done ☹️

Farage only gives a shit about what’s good for Farage so I’d ignore anything he has to say about anything. 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Just now, Dazo said:

Farage only gives a shit about what’s good for Farage so I’d ignore anything he has to say about anything. 

 

That's a fair point. Maybe his local is also planning to close.... 

[Dazo]

1 minute ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

 

That's a fair point. Maybe his local is also planning to close.... 

 

Or put the prices up to reflect their energy costs. 

[jack D and coke]

Why does Farage even get air time? He was on Aussie tv the other day why is he relevant done under?! Incidentally saying how there’s a Trillion pounds of oil and gas in the North Sea still😐

When it’s gawny run oot…

[Victorian]

16 minutes ago, Dazo said:

 

Or put the prices up to reflect their energy costs. 

 

There's an inherent limit to how much price can be raised in any business model.  There's always a tipping point at which passed on input costs begin to reduce demand such that the business becomes loss making and unsustainable and will close.

 

How much can you charge for a pint?  £5,  £6,  £17?  Or a pub lunch?  £10,  £12,  £38?

 

Unlimited passing on of input costs is not a thing.

[hmfc_liam06]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

There's an inherent limit to how much price can be raised in any business model.  There's always a tipping point at which passed on input costs begin to reduce demand such that the business becomes loss making and unsustainable and will close.

 

How much can you charge for a pint?  £5,  £6,  £17?  Or a pub lunch?  £10,  £12,  £38?

 

Unlimited passing on of input costs is not a thing.

 

Prices go up, people choose not to go because they are already squeezed enough financially. Thus any downtime spending is curtailed. The cycle continues.

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Prices go up, people choose not to go because they are already squeezed enough financially. Thus any downtime spending is curtailed. The cycle continues.

 

Indeed.  Business gets it from both ends.  Unsustainable costs + limited demand from diminishing disposable incomes.  

[William H. Bonney]

39 minutes ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

When even Farage is saying the state needs to step in, you know it's bad.

 

A freeze on April's price cap is what I'm hoping for. My local is planning on closing at the end of the year unless something is done ☹️

 

First of many. 

I heard snax on west register street is closing due to spiralling costs. 

[WorldChampions1902]

I took the missus out for Sunday lunch yesterday. We went to one of our favourite restaurants in a sleepy Shropshire village. Got talking to the owner who I have known for many years and I remarked that I had never seen his restaurant so empty. I reckon only 25% of tables were occupied - normally there are NO tables free on Sundays.
 

Poor guy was just about in tears as he told me that people are skint and as a result, footfall has plummeted. To compound matters, his energy bill has gone through the stratosphere and is going to go even higher over the next 6 months. His business is no longer profitable and he has now put it up for sale. And as he said, “who is going to buy a restaurant that cannot be made profitable in the current climate?”.
 

Not a chance he can sell it as a ‘going concern’, which means he will likely have to take a haircut on the ultimate sale price. Hopefully Truss will intervene to decisively take the pressure off these small businesses. If she fails, our economy is screwed and so are we. I’m not optimistic.

 

Grim.

[Ainsley Harriott]

4 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

The Labour and Jkb comrades response will be 

welcome but not enough blah blah blah 

 

The general public response will be thank goodness let’s crack on 

 

 

Agree even if the government just paid the nationalists entire energy bills the would still complain 

[Gizmo]

31 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Agree even if the government just paid the nationalists entire energy bills the would still complain 

There are 45 million people in the UK that are in or entering fuel poverty due to these rises. This transcends the political spectrum and is a national disaster. 

 

[Jambo_jim2001]

1 hour ago, William H. Bonney said:

 

First of many. 

I heard snax on west register street is closing due to spiralling costs. 

Same here village chippy and the Chinese takeaways are both closing citing costs. Things must be bad when the triads are closing the Chinese😲

[ri Alban]

Tories big plan-To shout 'Dull' at Keir Starmer at PMQs. Cosmic!

[Dazo]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

 

There's an inherent limit to how much price can be raised in any business model.  There's always a tipping point at which passed on input costs begin to reduce demand such that the business becomes loss making and unsustainable and will close.

 

How much can you charge for a pint?  £5,  £6,  £17?  Or a pub lunch?  £10,  £12,  £38?

 

Unlimited passing on of input costs is not a thing.

I probably worded my quip badly as I’m  well aware you can only pass on so much before it impacts on your business. Prices across all sectors will be going up though this is on top of many things going up during covid. It’s going up be an absolute shit show for businesses. 

[Gizmo]

10 minutes ago, Dazo said:

I probably worded my quip badly as I’m  well aware you can only pass on so much before it impacts on your business. Prices across all sectors will be going up though this is on top of many things going up during covid. It’s going up be an absolute shit show for businesses. 

Was estimated that to cover cost increases, a pint would have to be charged at around £20. 

It soon won't matter if we have no money left, as there will be no jobs and nothing to spend it on anyway. 

[Dazo]

6 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

Was estimated that to cover cost increases, a pint would have to be charged at around £20. 

It soon won't matter if we have no money left, as there will be no jobs and nothing to spend it on anyway. 

I’m not one for apocalyptic outlooks I think we’ll be alright. Tough times ahead but we’ll come out the other side. 

[ri Alban]

1 minute ago, Dazo said:

I’m not one for apocalyptic outlooks I think we’ll be alright. Tough times ahead but we’ll come out the other side. 

In what state? Sometimes you're better off dead.

[Gizmo]

1 minute ago, Dazo said:

I’m not one for apocalyptic outlooks I think we’ll be alright. Tough times ahead but we’ll come out the other side. 

Assuming Truss does something to cap costs for businesses as well as domestic supply. 

[Dazo]

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

In what state? Sometimes you're better off dead.

That seems a bit extreme Ri but I know extremity is your thing. 

[Dazo]

1 minute ago, Gizmo said:

Assuming Truss does something to cap costs for businesses as well as domestic supply. 

She’s going to have to. She has no choice imo. 

[GBJambo]

1 hour ago, Gizmo said:

There are 45 million people in the UK that are in or entering fuel poverty due to these rises. This transcends the political spectrum and is a national disaster. 

 

Spot on. Worse than Covid ever was. 

[ri Alban]

Just now, Dazo said:

That seems a bit extreme Ri but I know extremity is your thing. 

Thought about it, lately. The dough would be handy for my Mrs. 🤷‍♂️ If it ever came to it, I would, in a heartbeat.

[GBJambo]

5 minutes ago, Dazo said:

I’m not one for apocalyptic outlooks I think we’ll be alright. Tough times ahead but we’ll come out the other side. 

Maybe you will be but for the people who have to chose to eat or to heat their homes. They won’t hold the same opinion 

[Dazo]

1 minute ago, GBJambo said:

Maybe you will be but for the people who have to chose to eat or to heat their homes. They won’t hold the same opinion 

We have people in that situation every winter. It’s sad and wrong but this isn’t something new. 

[Victorian]

Even more chat today that there will be the energy companies' government underwritten borrowing fund.  Customer price frozen at whatever level.  Energy companies purchase their supply and the balance paid for from the fund.  Energy companies have the borrowing on their balance sheets and pay it down over years via a levy on future bills.  The borrowing never attributed to customers and technically kept off the government's books.  It's debatable if the scheme will include business,  but it has to otherwise there will still be economic wastelands.

 

The large producers continue to rob the gaff blind,  but people survive.  

Edited September 5, 2022 by Victorian

[Dazo]

5 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Thought about it, lately. The dough would be handy for my Mrs. 🤷‍♂️ If it ever came to it, I would, in a heartbeat.

I’m pretty sure your mrs would rather have you then a few quid. 

[Unknown user]

14 minutes ago, Dazo said:

I’m not one for apocalyptic outlooks I think we’ll be alright. Tough times ahead but we’ll come out the other side. 

 

I hear you're a nationalist now father

[FWJ]

15 hours ago, ArcticJambo said:

Thanks for that, FF. You're averaging about 270odd a month then which isn't an awful lot more than what you've just used for one of the more 'easy' months. Seems to suggest you're quite consistent throughout the year.  We're a family of four, with washing machine on 3-4 times a week but have managed to not use dryer since probably May, and even then we only use it selectively throughout the winter preferring instead to use the clothes horse beside the radiator. The dishwasher maybe goes on between 1-2 times a week. Telly only really on when son is using his xbox. Otherwise it's laptops, chromebooks and tablets/phones. Minimal use of lights but we have quite a few portable led motion detected lights that are quickly usb-charged strategically placed around the house so don't really need to turn lights on moving throughout.

 

Our combined bill for Aug was made up of 2 parts leccy and 1 part gas.  The gas is relatively cheap compared to the electrical costs. Would almost be better to keep your gas hobs on for heat than use an electric means of heating. Mental!

 

Anyway, I'm just trying to get my head around how folks pay so much for their energy bills. For Aug 2021 we paid £50, for Aug 2022 we paid £90, despite using marginally less elec/gas this month.  Nothing much we can do about the prices charged but I do find it difficult to understand how the average cost might be £5K, or >£500 pm.

Clearly I’m a right skin-flint!

August was 142kWH and a gas+electric total of £52.08

 

I never use the tumble dryer (was in the house when we bought it - need to get my a*** in gear and just but a cupboard in the space) and rarely - about once a month - use the dishwasher.

[FWJ]

2 minutes ago, FWJ said:

Clearly I’m a right skin-flint!

August was 142kWH and a gas+electric total of £52.08

 

I never use the tumble dryer (was in the house when we bought it - need to get my a*** in gear and just but a cupboard in the space) and rarely - about once a month - use the dishwasher.

(Just realised that doesn’t include the standing orders so that’ll make it about £70)  

Can’t really cut down much else TBH. 
The electric is as low as it can reasonably be so come October the electric alone will be £95

[ArcticJambo]

7 minutes ago, FWJ said:

Clearly I’m a right skin-flint!

August was 142kWH and a gas+electric total of £52.08

 

I never use the tumble dryer (was in the house when we bought it - need to get my a*** in gear and just but a cupboard in the space) and rarely - about once a month - use the dishwasher.

It can be done, by the looks of the small sample so far. Not easy but I suspect many more will change their mentality, one required to cut usage down.  Still obviously going to be fleeced!

[ArcticJambo]

3 minutes ago, FWJ said:

(Just realised that doesn’t include the standing orders so that’ll make it about £70)  

Can’t really cut down much else TBH. 
The electric is as low as it can reasonably be so come October the electric alone will be £95

I was going to say that that's even less than our usage so you must have been getting a 'great' rate. The oven will be getting used a lot less in our household, more cooking with gas.

[FWJ]

12 minutes ago, ArcticJambo said:

I was going to say that that's even less than our usage so you must have been getting a 'great' rate. The oven will be getting used a lot less in our household, more cooking with gas.

Same here, doing things that can be reheated in the microwave.

Slow cooker will be coming out for the winter soon too.

[FWJ]

8 hours ago, XB52 said:

I gave him facts about wave power in Scotland the day before, never replied funnily enough

I didn’t reply because I’d given my opinion and clearly we’re not going to agree.

I absolutely support renewables and would like to see a lot more - eventually 100% but until that’s guaranteed achievable and not bound to weather patterns and too much environmental cost I think nuclear is a valuable part of the mix.

 

Edit:  I’ve just looked back and I didn’t see any post from you with the ‘facts about wave power’

There was a post from another contributor about tidal power machines in Invergordon to which I did respond.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by FWJ

[hughesie27]

Apparently an Xbox Series X left on standby can cost up to £60 a year. A PS5 is only £4.

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, hughesie27 said:

Apparently an Xbox Series X left on standby can cost up to £60 a year. A PS5 is only £4.

 

Both can equally be hoyed in the bin.  

[ArcticJambo]

11 minutes ago, FWJ said:

I didn’t reply because I’d given my opinion and clearly we’re not going to agree.

I absolutely support renewables and would like to see a lot more - eventually 100% but until that’s guaranteed achievable and not bound to weather patterns and too much environmental cost I think nuclear is a valuable part of the mix.

 

Edit:  I’ve just looked back and I didn’t see any post from you with the ‘facts about wave power’

There was a post from another contributor about tidal power machines in Invergordon to which I did respond.

 

 

That link that FF just posted about the source of electricity generation in realtime showed that solar power was at 14%, wind at 13% and nuclear 17%. The big hitter of course was gas at 47%. There's a long way to go, unfortunately, and today seems almost ideal sunny and breezy!

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

I’m pretty sure your mrs would rather have you then a few quid. 

🤔

[joondalupjambo]

1 hour ago, FWJ said:

Clearly I’m a right skin-flint!

August was 142kWH and a gas+electric total of £52.08

 

I never use the tumble dryer (was in the house when we bought it - need to get my a*** in gear and just but a cupboard in the space) and rarely - about once a month - use the dishwasher.

Not as much as me😃

Gas and leccy including standing charges was £53 in total.  Mind you our fixed rate ends next week so would expect August next year to be circa £130😃

[pablo]

Looking grim in Europe again today. Gas prices have surged again more than 35% today alone. Something has got to give soon.

[OBE]

2 minutes ago, pablo said:

Looking grim in Europe again today. Gas prices have surged again more than 35% today alone. Something has got to give soon.

 

Aye, the spinal cord in Putins ***kin neck...

[pablo]

4 minutes ago, OBE said:

 

Aye, the spinal cord in Putins ***kin neck...

 

Ha! Indeed

[XB52]

1 hour ago, FWJ said:

I didn’t reply because I’d given my opinion and clearly we’re not going to agree.

I absolutely support renewables and would like to see a lot more - eventually 100% but until that’s guaranteed achievable and not bound to weather patterns and too much environmental cost I think nuclear is a valuable part of the mix.

 

Edit:  I’ve just looked back and I didn’t see any post from you with the ‘facts about wave power’

There was a post from another contributor about tidal power machines in Invergordon to which I did respond.

 

 

Scotland has long been a pioneer for tidal technology, hosting the world’s largest tidal stream generating station which was built in 2018 thanks to a £10 million innovation grant from the UK Government and extensive support under the Renewables Obligation mechanism – the highest level of support awarded to any technology.

In fact, the UK has the largest tidal stream deployment in the world, so much so that almost 50% of the world’s installed tidal stream capacity is in Scottish waters

 

The above was my reply to you on Saturday morning but, as you say, we will never agree. One thing is for certain, there will not be a new nuclear power station in Scotland unless the tories win here so it's a pointless argument anyway

[Mikey1874]

15 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Scotland has long been a pioneer for tidal technology, hosting the world’s largest tidal stream generating station which was built in 2018 thanks to a £10 million innovation grant from the UK Government and extensive support under the Renewables Obligation mechanism – the highest level of support awarded to any technology.

In fact, the UK has the largest tidal stream deployment in the world, so much so that almost 50% of the world’s installed tidal stream capacity is in Scottish waters

 

The above was my reply to you on Saturday morning but, as you say, we will never agree. One thing is for certain, there will not be a new nuclear power station in Scotland unless the tories win here so it's a pointless argument anyway

 

The question is just about how many homes the tidal power covers. 

[ri Alban]

Highland spring water up to 95p from 60p. Just as well I think that's still cheap, tho that's some jump.

[ri Alban]

@Boab Get yer arse back here. This forum needs you. :Pointyguy:

[FWJ]

30 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Scotland has long been a pioneer for tidal technology, hosting the world’s largest tidal stream generating station which was built in 2018 thanks to a £10 million innovation grant from the UK Government and extensive support under the Renewables Obligation mechanism – the highest level of support awarded to any technology.

In fact, the UK has the largest tidal stream deployment in the world, so much so that almost 50% of the world’s installed tidal stream capacity is in Scottish waters

 

The above was my reply to you on Saturday morning but, as you say, we will never agree. One thing is for certain, there will not be a new nuclear power station in Scotland unless the tories win here so it's a pointless argument anyway

Yes I saw that too and I’d earlier read it on the gov.uk from where it appears to have been lifted.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-government-announces-huge-investment-into-scottish-tidal-power
 

But that’s tidal, not wave.

You’re right, we won’t agree and I wouldn’t normally have replied but I didn’t fancy another “never replied, funnily enough” ….

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FWJ]

12 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Highland spring water up to 95p from 60p. Just as well I think that's still cheap, tho that's some jump.

 

[ri Alban]

Just now, FWJ said:

 

I know, but I can't take that to work.